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Bobbie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 10:06am
It is not an easy question to answer - that is for sure. 
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 10:29am
It is an easier question to answer if you stop looking at the problem in terms of Landlords and Voucher holders and start looking at the Big Picture and take the city as a whole.  This is not just a problem that can be dealt with in those terms as there are to many affected areas in the city and to many people involved.
 
It is not as simple as 500 Landlords and 1600 Voucher Holders.
 
It is a matter of 50000 residents
100's of businesses
excessive poverty
The affect on the school system, look at all of the Children not just the few.
The affect on city services
The affect on the local economy
The affect on the future economy of the city, will busiensses and new residents want to move her.
The affect on the population of Middletown which is declining.  Our children are leaving and not returning as the city has nothing to offer them.
And on and on and on.
 
For me if you look at the Big Picture the issue becomes clearer on what needs to be done.  Will landlords lose money probably if they don't adapt and that is the way it goes in business.   Will Voucher holders lose their vouchers ......NO.  So move on to the other issues.
 
 
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 11:36am
Monroe Landlord is a major player in Middletown's Section 8 issues.

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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Nick_Kidd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 11:47am

The section 8 problem will never be corrected until the citizens of Middletown elect someone with a spine to stand up to the criminals in the city building. Council’s “not wanting to look back or place blame but only want to look forward” does nothing more than reward failure and cause us to keep making the same mistakes and allowing the same conduct in the city building that destroyed our once fine city. Until we rid ourselves of those that got us into this mess, we can not move forward. A few years ago, I remember Schiavone asking Kohler about the increase in section 8 and was told that council had voted to expand the number of vouchers. When Schiavone questioned that response, Kohler told him that he had just given council the “highlights” of the program and then council have voted to approve the program. Then, as today, the people in the city building just give council the info that will get council the vote “correctly”.

Follow the money. The money skimmed off the block grants, including section 8, the money stolen from the Auto and Gas Fund, the sewer separation fund and others, goes to salaries and benefits for the nearly 400 over-paid under-performing people that get city paychecks. There is only one reason for anyone to get a city paycheck and that is to make Middletown a better or safer place to live or have a business. We are a high crime slum. We are the #1 fastest dying city (i.e. the least desirable place to live or work) in the country (with a population under 100,000). We could get rid of half of the cities paychecks and remain #1 on the Forbes fastest dying list. Ridding ourselves of certain people that work for the city, would improve our standing on the Forbes list and our reputation & image.

HUD has said that we need the vouchers that we have in Middletown. My opinion is that the only way Middletown can get rid of vouchers is by getting more jobs in town. Misappropriating funds that should be repairing our streets, maintaining our parks, opening our pools, separating our sewers and all the other requirements of a city, to pay people to run our business off or keep new ones from coming in is insanity.

Getting jobs to come to a high crime slum (with the wonderful stench downtown) with some of the lowest performing schools in the state, with the least amenities and high taxes is all but impossible.

We must start with the basics and correct problems as we build. We all heard what happened with Lenny Robinson last week. That kind of insanity must stop but council doesn’t want to look back or place blame. So we keep our high rating on the Forbes list and keep our well-deserved image and reputation intact.

Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 1:35pm
Thank you Vivian for the overview of how the Section 8 overabundance got its start here. I would have liked to have seen Ms. Scott-Jones elaborate as you have in front of TV Middletown and the audience and to have seen the looks on the others faces as the beans were spilled. But no, didn't happen. No one with any guts to speak frankly behind that desk? Too intimidated perhaps, to speak the truth and are experts at beating the board up with the hammer but never hitting the nail on the head as Mr. Laubach did. Too embarassing to incriminate Kohler and the others in front of the public? Too bad. Public officials need their dirty laundry aired in public. Why spare the feelings of people who have done so much damage to this community?
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 3:28pm
wasteful, Typing in bold and playing with the color wheel didn't prove my post wrong. This is not about the landlords, as I said, this is about the city government. That's who is to blame. Posting landlord/investor names on this site as though they are some evil people for taking advantage of a situation is not the problem. Most of those investors probably had no clue the voucher program would keep growing and growing. They didn't just buy all their houses one day, they did it over many years and kept increasing their inventories. Dan Tracy & Jeff Faulkner have both had many rental properties for over 20 years.

And Vivian is right below, Nick Kidd hit it out of the ballpark.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 3:34pm

Nick
I just love it when you tell it like it is Thumbs%20Up

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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 3:39pm
I'm just shaking in my boots here old Rhodey, don't think I'll be able to eat or sleep for a week now.LOL
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 3:39pm

Rhodes, I respectfully disagree with you on your thoughts about the landlords not playing a roll in the number of vouchers we have in Middletown. In fact I think they play a VERY important roll in the problem. If some of these landlords would buy property in other towns like Monroe, Madison, West Chester and others in Butler County, fix them up and rent them under the section 8 rules, then people with vouchers would go there. But instead they buy property here in Middletown, not just one or two places either. They own a ton and rent to Section 8 tenets.

 

 

So, the question is why not buy property in Monroe or Camden, and rent it as section 8 housing? Because they live in those towns and don’t want section 8 tenets there, that’s why!!

 

 They want them here where they don’t live and don’t have to see them. So you see Rhodes, they do play a roll in the problem.  

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 3:56pm
wasteful, it isn't about shaking in your boots. It's about paying attention to the debate at hand. You posted owner information of properties on here as though those people are the ones that caused the problem, when they are absolutely not the reason for the growth of the voucher program.

randy, the investors buy in Middletown because the vouchers are in Middletown. The investors do not control how many vouchers are available in what city, etc. I don't understand how you think that is the fault of an investor. The program is government controlled, not private investor controlled. If it is investor controlled, that's the first time I have ever heard that one.

We can't just jump on investors for seeing an opportunity and taking advantage of the opportunity. If the city hadn't created the opportunity, the investors would go elsewhere. You bring up Camden, I guess because Faulkner lives. He lives there because that is where his then girlfriend, possible wife now (not sure) is from. He didn't move out of Middletown because of too many vouchers in the city. He's lived in Camden for about 15-20 years now. I believe Dan Tracy lives on Golfview Dr., so he's another one that doesn't live outside of the city.

And the biggest point you all seem to keep missing. There are many investors that have bought tons of homes in Middletown for years. Most never bothered with Section 8 renters until after the AK lockout a few years ago. That's when even the rental market got desperate. If you're owning 20-30 houses or however many, you're going to fill those so you don't lose your investments in any way that you can.

Simple fact is, this is the fault of a poorly managed city. To blame investors is pointing the blame in the wrong direction.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 3:59pm
Randy, I would say they Buy here because it is convenient, plentiful, cheap, concentrated in one area, Section 8 Recipients living in Middletown got preference, maybe they got some deals from the city when the push was on to increase vouchers, not sure on that one.  When you can buy a home for $10-15K or less put $5K into it and get guaranteed rent of $800-900 a month doesn't take long to be profitable, especially when you look at the number of units these landlords have. 
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 4:07pm
Rhodes, the Vouchers are here because the rental properties are here. Any one that has a section 8 voucher can take that voucher ANY WHERE in the country and use it. That is a fact. So if these guys would invest in other cities maybe voucher holders that are here would move there. I Middletown Section 8 tenet is not limited to living in Middletown. As for Jeff, he has not lived in Middletown for 15 to 20 years as you said. So invest in the place where you live. Dan Tracy does live here and on Golfview as you also state, the point is and the question is why dont they invest in other areas? and I believe Wasteful nailed it, it's because property is cheap here.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 4:10pm
Rhodes I posted owner information on here so that we know what we are dealing with, are we dealing with someone that owns 5 housing units, or 100 Units, personally I think it matters.  If you don't like it to bad.  Call up the Butler County Auditor to encrypt the info as it is public information.
 
Number 2 I am not blaming the Investors for anything.  But I am also not going to lose any sleep if they lose money on their properties eventually as many other Businesses in town have lost their investment due to the situation in Middletown.
 
Rhodes you have a very limited view of an issue which spans many different avenues in Middletown, from the Schools system to the local Business economy and everything in between.
 
To many people in town are worried about the Investor in housing and the Voucher holder.  The person you need to worry least about is the voucher holder as they have a voucher and won't lose it unless they cause the loss.  The investors well times change and if they can't adapt to change that is their problem and the rest of the city and it's residents shouldn't have to suffer just for their profit.
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 4:43pm
to be fair not all of those properties listed are section 8 rentals either.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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PattiGal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PattiGal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 5:08pm
Is there a way to check and see if these multiple property owners are up to date on their real estate taxes?
"Because nice matters..."
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 5:24pm
wasteful, you're boring.

randy, vouchers may be taken anywhere, but doesn't each government body determine how many they allow? Can anyone confirm this? This is the first I heard that the investors are the ones dictating the number of vouchers for a city.
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 5:44pm

Rhodes, the fact that property owners buy these homes and rent out to section 8 tenets in Middletown keeps the numbers here high. I am not sure if the local government has any say in the number of vouchers allowed in there city. I dont think so though.

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 6:21pm
Wow-such good info and discussion from so many knowledgeable contributors.
Ms.Moon and Mr.Kidd were right on the money with the cold, hard truth.
wasteful and Rhodes are both right in their own ways.

So many to share the blame over a long time period, though most involved passed through or controlled the city building. So the blame runs primarily in that direction.

The solution will be painful for everyone, whether you think that way or not. Everyone will lose somehow.

Those that profited most from the situation may well lose the most--so it goes.
No one wants to see anyone tossed into the street, however Section 8 was never meant to be a long-term way of life.
The entitlement age is rapidly coming to an end, whether you are on welfare,Section 8 or retired or working municipal employee. The private sector can no longer be you sole benefactor. Everyone must contribute their fair share in many different ways. We must all stay productive for as long as possible. Double-dipping must be eliminated.

Beauty of this is that Council/admin is monitoring everything we post, and they know that realistically the writing is on the wall. No turning back.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 6:59pm
That's right Rhodes head for the hills with the name calling......hahahahaha.  Funny how some can't have a conversation without the name calling.
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 7:39pm
randy, reading the post above by Vivian pretty much clears the investors of blame. It was the city that increased the number of vouchers. The investors just took advantage of it.

I don't mind going after investors if they are breaking the law regarding their rentals or something like that. I don't think it is fair to publicly mark them on this board or anywhere else as though they caused the voucher program to get out of hand. Investors invest, they take risks. It was the city that created the environment that is currently ruining this city.

And it is ALL over the city. They have managed to put Section 8 renters in areas over by The Jug, Ayreshire Acres (sp), all around Sunset Park. This is how you destroy a city.

Maybe the next Metropolitan housing complex should be built on the South Park property, right across the street from Mr. Kohler.
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 7:59pm
I agree that they did not cause the problem, they just took advantage of what was happening. But at this point they are still a part of problem.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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SupportMiddletown View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

So what is the alternative that does not put people out on the street?


Doesn't put people on the street. That's the misconception. It shifts the burden to other parts of the county.

The voucher doesn't go away.
 
That assumes that decent housing exists in other parts of the county and that people are able to pick up their lives and relocate. Middletown is the only part of the county with a transit system.
 
I'm sure there is a way to gradually ramp down vouchers, but it is going to take some time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 23 2010 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

So what is the alternative that does not put people out on the street?
Doesn't put people on the street. That's the misconception. It shifts the burden to other parts of the county. The voucher doesn't go away.





 

That assumes that decent housing exists in other parts of the county and that people are able to pick up their lives and relocate. Middletown is the only part of the county with a transit system.

 

I'm sure there is a way to gradually ramp down vouchers, but it is going to take some time.


Well once the Sun Coke is done, there will be plenty of decent housing in Monroe since.... ;)
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angelababy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelababy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 26 2010 at 1:21am
Since the buildings he owns are efficiency, there really isn't much he can do with them but rent them to single Section 8 renters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelababy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 10:17pm

Hi! Thanks for all of your very useful informations.

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