SORG MANSION TAX CREDIT

For the last 15 years City Council has focused all their attention and our tax dollars on “THEIR DOWNTOWN”. We took the roof off the City Center Mall and started on the rebirth of Historic South Main Street. The City Council and the Planning Department put so many restrictions on the downtown property that they have strangled the growth of this area.

     Council members stated that they didn’t need to worry about the Rt. 122 – I 75 interchange area because “it would take care of it’s self.” We built the new hospital on the other side of I-75 and then Fenwick High School purchased land in Warren County almost to Hunter for their new school.

    All this talk from City Council about the revitalization of Middletown while we let large employers move out of the city limits.
    It was during this same time period that City Council increased the Section 8 vouchers by 900 units.

    The areas around the Central Offices of AK Steel were not cleaned up or revitalized at all.  In the last years before their move this area looked like a third world war zone. Yet City Hall seemed shocked when they moved their offices to West Chester. ..shame on City Hall and the Planning Department again.

    I’m not against the restoration of the houses on South Main Street as long as the owners invest their own money…however I am against the CDBG Funds that were wasted in this area when it should have been spent in the areas of greatest need.

    I believe what the majority of us are really upset about is that our concerns are not being heard and our needs are not being met.  City Hall wants more and more money in taxes and fees while we get no bang at all for our tax dollar.

 

I concur completely with sj and Mike Presta. Having lived in historic and affluent communities, before my unfortunate migration to Middletown, I can state without hesitation, the biggest impediment Middletown has with any thoughts associated with a historic area, and downtown activity and revitalization, is the fact the roads and infratsructure have been dishonestly avoided to be maintained since 1986, and its inability to attract and retain businesses makes it an area to be avoided. Its not complicated. Middletown is an area people avoid,

For the past few weeks, I have been working in my virtual office for a few weeks, meaning, my home office. During this period of time, I have been struck at the lack of traffic in the city, especially the Rosedale, Breihel, Central, and Grand area. These roads used to be very busy, with people driving for physician appointments, professional service businesses, and general movement for house owners in Middletown, driving around to upgrade, downgrade, or move. No more. I see maybe 3-4 cars an hour on Rosedale, and mostly beat up trucks driving through once very nice, upsacle neighborhoods, looking for a lawn mower that is scrapped, or a washer/ dryer. Admittedly, this form of ecological recycling is a nice convenience, as virtually anything put out on the curb, will be taken and hauled off from someone. As the saying goes, one's garbage or broken part, is another's treasure.

Tac credits mean nothing unless you have a huge tax liability and are looking for a write-off. Pople aren't buying houses for tax write offs. A house on the National Historic Register has allure and gravitous, but like trash, beauty and value is in the eye of the beholder. Frankly, there is so much ruin down property downtown, that off-sets any beauty from old victorian houses, and in particular, one like the Sorg Mansion, that looks like a house from a Dracula movie or Shanshack Redemption. It is ugly, run down, and has no appeal.

Now, to any whom espouse that fixing up a strip in Middletown of old victorians is going to reincarnate the city of Middletown, coupled with the upscale apartments living at the Manchester, this will never occur. What you aren't factoring into your calculus is people fist settle into areas based upon jobs, instead of the long commute, especially in an urban area. Secondly, without road repair, and basic service amentities, there is nothing attractive nor compelling, about living in an old building, even one restored, when the roads are awful, and crumble, taxes are high, reputation is at the bottom of the pit, and numerous alternatives are abundant within 30 miles.

More imporatntly, for those that think this activity downtown is worthy, and serves a purpose, I say you are nothing but an enabler, perpetuating a myth Middletown is coming back, so the city leaders and this council, shakedown countless funds, to be spread around their personal abode.

Its that simple.  
  

 “We all see what can work downtown and nobody ever acknowledges it.  I've brought it up many times.  Trinity Place is going on 40 years strong.”

Mr. Nagy
I believe if you call the office of Trinity Place you will find they are renting to Section 8 voucher holders also. However it is a well managed and maintained complex. 

Rhodes
I know that several years ago they had a few Section 8 because they were having problems filling their units however I have not checked in the last few years. 
I think the other is called Trinity House that is located on Clark Street is for the elderly. I'm told that they are nice units also.
I will also agree with Spider that we need a grocery store located someplace in the core area if you are going to build new apartments in the current downtown buildings for the young or for the elderly.

All of the feasibility studies that have been completed over the past 15 years have all stated that downtown will need a major draw to be successful. 

May I say something?

I am sick of hearing of South Main, and downtown non revitalization.

Thank you.

Gezzus! You guys are (mostly) all nuts. These tax credits are awarded by the State. They set aside a certian amount for private historic preservation every year so no matter where it goes, it's going somewhere. You would think that you would be happy that an investor came to take the mansion and turn it into something. Eveen happier that they were awarded a state funded tax credit to help them offset cost for the project and get the job done.

Historic tax credits for DUMMIES, a primer;

http://www.preservationnation.org/information-center/economics-of-revitalization/rehabilitation-tax-credits/additional-resources/nthp_state_tax_credits_model_policy.pdfhttp://

HHG, I get your point that the money is already there, so what's the big deal approach.  A lot of people on here are borderline, if not all the way, libertarians.  When government has enough money to pass out for pet projects that means they are collecting too much and need to start returning it.  It sounds great to help communities, but I'm sure you know from your own experience that certain people tend to benefit more than others from these programs.

Firstly, the City Engineer's own Staff Report to council stated that the phony gas lamps (I believe the number was 42) on South Main Street would cost $450 per month MORE in power usage costs than the standard street lights (I believe the number was 11) that they were to replace.  This $5,400 annual cost will go on EVERY YEAR, from now until the end of time, to be borne by ALL city residents, NOT just the residents of South Main Street.

Rhodes and Historic Guy,
         You were on good ground but now you have lost ground. What right does one part of town have over other parts of town to get millions of preferred dollars over the years to the detriment of the entire city and every citizen including you.
        Those dumb lights have nothing whatsoever with historic restoration and you and everyone else knows it. It has to do with a few people trying to get their way and raising their property values at taxpayers expense without any regard to everyone else's property values. Their token contributions to the lights are laughable if it weren't so serious. As Rhodes so well pointed out downtown development by this Council and Administration is a joke and they have no idea what they are doing or how to do it and never have had.  We don't need your knowledge or mine to tell us that. The city's negative losses tell us that and so does every real estate agent in the past and present and future tell us that. That is above and beyond what  recession has done to us. Its one thing for you to talk about historic restoration on a specific building  or lights but all you say is moot because of its subjective nature. It has nothing to do with abusive, corruptive practice to a cities progress (lack of it) by individuals who would rather have power than democracy and who would rather have their special interests than the betterment of the majority of middle class citizens who are leaving in droves. So lets get on with the discussion over the lights (to major in minors) if thats what you are of a mind to do rather than deal with the real issues of city councils total failues to meet the city's needs in ANY area. But don't expect those on this forum to buy into the mole hills when there are mountains that they have been dealing with for years.  Better yet, don't waste any more time on the lights and lets talk about council and the administrations motives, failures and actions. Those other conversations are just efforts to distract others from the real issues and we all know it.

          Further, when you take on someone like SJ regarding business you aren't even in the ballpark. His business experience and expertise is proven over decades in a much wider frame of reference than both of you. His extensive contributions ( and his families) in time, service,  finances to this city in so many numerous ways over decades are almost unparralled by any one currently living.

           pn

          

Rhodes wrote: Reading is really important.  Comprehending what you just read is even more so.  Researching before you post is another key to having a reasoned discussion.  Juvenile jabs when you have no idea what you are talking about or you post emphatically denouncing something nobody has proposed makes you all look like fools that do it... regularly.  Maybe someone should come on here and post more photos of corvettes so you all can waste another 2 pages like you did a few weeks back.  Research, research, research...  You can talk all you want about how affluent you think you are, but dumb is dumb all day.

SJ, I have never said you claimed to be a development whiz.  One of your cheerleaders thinks you are hands off because you had an aisle 5 and an aisle 9.   It's really scary that I have to keep explaining what I post when it is so simple the first time.

My posts are neither misguided or naive. <--  is that one of those personal insult things you don't want thrown your way?  You can throw them my way, I could care less.  Just quote me correctly next time.  You weren't being objective in vision, you were trying to rattle the cage.  You got called out on it because it was so over the top ridiculous.