spiderjohn wrote: I assume you to be sarcastic, SWO75 Honestly I see nothing attractive in either the Opera House properties or the Mansion, other than the tremendous opportunities to use the real estate for something new and attractive to the immediate neighborhood and to bring younger, upscale people in to that area. I have lived here for 60+ years--the Opera House has never been anything but a 3rd rate venue(Colonial Theater) with nothing of value or historic in any of the connected buildings. I don't find the Mansion attractive at all, though I have never been inside. Both properties have been left to deteriorate to the point where it now takes a ridiculous amount of $$(taxpayer of course!) to bring either back to anything. And neither improved property will benefit everyone, only a select few. Hardly the necessary bang for the buck. When I look at the Mansion complex, I see a very valuable corner that could be a true cornerstone/re-birth of the area IF it featured a ssmall multi-use strip center featuring the much-requested/desired fresh food market, small dining centers(chain and private), a pharmacy etc. with the corner across used as a fuel center. IMO this type of activity would spur more positive economic resurgence in the area than a bed/breakfast @ an enormous public expense. It could also draw from directly across the W Middletown bridge, where there is currently nothing for those on the other side of the river. If this doesn't happen, a similar complex will eventually happen on the other side, eliminating any reason to cross the bridge in to Middietown. This concept would probably also be less expensive and involve less public $$. Just look at the success of the UDF stand-alone facility. A Broadway News type facility could be incorporated, while the current site + the American Legion property could be razed. The $$ desired to be put in to the Opera House will result in exactly what? A very expensive entertainment venue/complex for ??? Opera has been proven not to work--the location/size prohibits any major entertainment acts from coming in. Level the whole block to create a new experience for a new breed of citizens/residents and to retain some of our best/brightest. IMO there is no real attraction to what is going on down there now. If you want younger upscale singles and families to reside and visit the area, you have to give them new, nice and exciting instead of old re-cycled sos. In the long run(to which we are seriously referring), this is the only way that any of this re-do could work. I respect your demeanor and thinking--- Where am I wrong?

Aesthetics is a matter of personal opinion, preferences and taste.  So you aren't wrong if you don't find the structures personally appealing. 

From my perspective, they hold significant historical value and architectural interest which could not easily be duplicated today.

Now, if there is area that is ripe for redevelopment and demo, it would be most of Verity Pkwy between Tytus and Reinartz

swohio75 is right.  Under 30 likes revived older urban type areas.  I'm surprised anyone doesn't know this.  I'm also trying to figure out why anyone would think demolition of the Sorg Mansion and replacing it with a strip center or UDF like business would be a boost downtown.  A boost for what?  More people lined up with their EBT cards?  Vacant lots all over downtown if anyone wants to cater to that crowd.  That is not how you turn a downtown around.

Bill wrote: Exactly, SJ.  Older folks don't seem to understand that by and large the younger demographic wants new and fresh, not old and recycled.

I'd really like to see research that indicates this.  Because everything I've read is to the contrary of your statements Gen Y.2 (under 30) prefer Urban Living, which his a mix of old and new (see Banks and OTR in Cincinnati).

Even "new and fresh" often receive tax incentives. 

 

I assume you to be sarcastic, SWO75
Honestly I see nothing attractive in either the Opera House properties or the Mansion, other than the tremendous opportunities to use the real estate for something new and attractive to the immediate neighborhood and to bring younger, upscale people in to that area.

I have lived here for 60+ years--the Opera House has never been anything but a 3rd rate venue(Colonial Theater) with nothing of value or historic in any of the connected buildings. I don't find the Mansion attractive at all, though I have never been inside. Both properties have been left to deteriorate to the point where it now takes a ridiculous amount of $$(taxpayer of course!) to bring either back to anything. And neither improved property will benefit everyone, only a select few. Hardly the necessary bang for the buck.

When I look at the Mansion complex, I see a very valuable corner that could be a true cornerstone/re-birth of the area IF it featured a ssmall multi-use strip center featuring the much-requested/desired fresh food market, small dining centers(chain and private), a pharmacy etc. with the corner across used as a fuel center.

IMO this type of activity would spur more positive economic resurgence in the area than a bed/breakfast @ an enormous public expense. It could also draw from directly across the W Middletown bridge, where there is currently nothing for those on the other side of the river. If this doesn't happen, a similar complex will eventually happen on the other side, eliminating any reason to cross the bridge in to Middietown. This concept would probably also be less expensive and involve less public $$. Just look at the success of the UDF stand-alone facility. A Broadway News type facility could be incorporated, while the current site + the American Legion property could be razed.

The $$ desired to be put in to the Opera House will result in exactly what? A very expensive entertainment venue/complex for ??? Opera has been proven not to work--the location/size prohibits any major entertainment acts from coming in. Level the whole block to create a new experience for a new breed of citizens/residents and to retain some of our best/brightest. IMO there is no real attraction to what is going on down there now. If you want younger upscale singles and families to reside and visit the area, you have to give them new, nice and exciting instead of old re-cycled sos.

In the long run(to which we are seriously referring), this is the only way that any of this re-do could work.

I respect your demeanor and thinking---
Where am I wrong?

409 wrote:

Yes SpiderJohn, I find this property completely unattractive! 

If anyone can explain historic tax credits, I'd love to know how they work.  I did a little research on the topic today and unless I'm misunderstanding, it's basically a refund when a property owner files their taxes the following year.  So it's a credit in their favor, otherwise a refund check.  Am I understanding this correctly?  The state limits it to 25% of costs, but a property owner can then apply for federal tax credits upwards of 45% of the costs of a project like this.  I noticed in the recent article the projected costs of this project are now at $1.3 million whereas before any time the new owners are quoted in the paper they say it is around $400,000 - 600,000.  Looks like they doubled the cost they claimed.  If my math is correct and they are successful with federal tax credits, wouldn't that make their rehabilitation costs closer to zero?  Wouldn't that mean in the end they end up paying $225,000 for the property and the tax payer ends up paying for their renovation costs in full?

What about the historic tax credits for the other restorations of:
The Rose Furniture Building
+ $300,000 city taxpayer funded "façade improvements"--road was blocked totally for 2 months--one lane months longer--any time frame on this "improvement + the 1-1.5 million $$ supposed to be put in to this property by the new owner?--never see anyone working--why no congencies put on this deal?

The Ewing Building
Allegedly Ewings were payed well for this property--have the promised repairs been made?

The Sorg Opera House
Seems quiet on that front since the large grant $$ was denied. The exterior is a mess--interior can't be much better--private purchase though mostly funded by donations and tax $$--?--never see anyone working--why no congencies put on this deal?

Goetz Tower--?--never see anyone working--why no congencies put on this deal?

Sonshine Building
Manchester Inn
Are these two parcels tied together? POSSIBLE new owner is going to put 10+ million $$ into this property, and the ballroom will not be a part? 1-2 bedroom condos or apartments?--due diligence?---$10+ million payback how?--our tax $$ again obviously

Face it--the Sorg family built large, dis-functional, high maintenance un-attractive properties that should probably be leveled instead of saved. The $$ involved in fixing any of this for private entities is probably taxpayer $$ not well-spent. Our community and country has far greater concerns and responsibilities imo

do you see anything like this going on in any other needy area of our city?

groundhog day
deja vu all over again

new people come in to town wanting to do the same things that have been done multiple times prior(always at our expense for their whim), Just because they are new does not make the same tried concept new again.

Posted: 2:18 p.m. Tuesday, June 24, 2014

Sorg Mansion receives tax credits

By Rick McCrabb

Staff Writer

MIDDLETOWN — 

    The Sorg Mansion received $212,500 in tax credits, the Ohio Development Services Agency announced Tuesday. The total project to renovate the South Main Street property is estimated at $1,319,000.

    The Sorg Mansion was erected in 1887 for industrialist Paul Sorg. A 1902 renovation by Pretzinger and Musselman architects expanded the Richardsonian Romanesque mansion to its current 27-room configuration. Now vacant, the building, owned by Mark and Traci Barnett, who live in Baltimore, will be fully rehabilitated to serve as an owner-occupied bed and breakfast, the couple has said.

    They purchased the Sorg for $225,000 after seeing it listed for sale on the Internet.

This is the first project in Middletown to access the Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credit program.

    State Historic Preservation Office awarded $37.7 million in Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credits to rehabilitate 35 historic buildings in 13 communities across the state. The projects are expected to leverage nearly $250 million in private investments.

    The State Historic Preservation Office reviewed each project proposal to ensure the rehabilitation work undertaken will protect the integrity of each historic building.

    “The Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credit leads to investment in both small towns and big cities,” said David Goodman, director of the Ohio Development Services Agency. “These projects strengthen local communities and create construction jobs during the renovation and permanent jobs once the building reopens.”