Walking the main drag of Central Avenue

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   VOR- some of us, ie, "You people opposed to this need to wake up and be thankful"..... are not necessarily opposed to the Cincy State idea. We base our cautious behavior (not opposition) on the fact that the city is preparing to spend a half a mil on 4 Thatcher properties without a firm commitment (a signed contract to lease as opposed to just a "gentlemen's agreement" and a handshake (according to Mulligan and Scott-Jones in the Laubach meeting at Wildwood recently). The city is taking all the risk here and Cincy State could just "walk away" at any time leaving the city with 4 buildings, needing renovation, to do what with????? We will be stuck, once again, in the real estate business, with some white elephants like the Swallens building, Studio and others. The city leaders, spending the city taxpayer's money, without the taxpayer having a sayso, on the purchase of real estate that may or may not be occupied is a high risk venture. You mentioned that Cincy State could have gone to Mason or West Chester. In your opinion, do you think these two towns would have entered into an agreement like this, or would they have demanded a written contract before purchasing these properties? I'm guessing contract rather than handshake. 

Yes, this is a tremendous opportunity for the downtown area and for the city. Will it be sucessful or will it go the route of Lake Middletown and the City Centre Mall? 50/50 crapshoot IMO. Would you spend a half a mil (+ renovation costs) on a 50/50 proposition and all of it resting on just a handshake? The city leaders are.

The best single economic development in the city in the past decade? Would have to be the Atrium campus with the new VA clinic, the Dayton YMCA and rehab clinic behind that and the retirement home east of I-75 I guess. Nothing west of I-75 and in Middletown proper has seen any growth areas other than the new coke plant on Yankee. Stagnated, vacated and deserted business areas flourish in town. It would appear the focus is on the east side of 75, or the downtown area, but no one is talking about the old K-Mart area on Roosevelt, the old center down on S. Breil, the old Target center on S. University, the Marsh/old Montgomery Ward area down by the Nelbar overpass, etc. Those areas have been forgotten about as to filling those stores. 

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
VietVet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008	Post Options Post Reply Quote VietVet Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 01 2010 at 7:03am
	VOR- some of us, ie, "You people opposed to this need to wake up and be thankful"..... are not necessarily opposed to the Cincy State idea. We base our cautious behavior (not opposition) on the fact that the city is preparing to spend a half a mil on 4 Thatcher properties without a firm commitment (a signed contract to lease as opposed to just a "gentlemen's agreement" and a handshake (according to Mulligan and Scott-Jones in the Laubach meeting at Wildwood recently). The city is taking all the risk here and Cincy State could just "walk away" at any time leaving the city with 4 buildings, needing renovation, to do what with????? We will be stuck, once again, in the real estate business, with some white elephants like the Swallens building, Studio and others. The city leaders, spending the city taxpayer's money, without the taxpayer having a sayso, on the purchase of real estate that may or may not be occupied is a high risk venture. You mentioned that Cincy State could have gone to Mason or West Chester. In your opinion, do you think these two towns would have entered into an agreement like this, or would they have demanded a written contract before purchasing these properties? I'm guessing contract rather than handshake. Yes, this is a tremendous opportunity for the downtown area and for the city. Will it be sucessful or will it go the route of Lake Middletown and the City Centre Mall? 50/50 crapshoot IMO. Would you spend a half a mil (+ renovation costs) on a 50/50 proposition and all of it resting on just a handshake? The city leaders are. The best single economic development in the city in the past decade? Would have to be the Atrium campus with the new VA clinic, the Dayton YMCA and rehab clinic behind that and the retirement home east of I-75 I guess. Nothing west of I-75 and in Middletown proper has seen any growth areas other than the new coke plant on Yankee. Stagnated, vacated and deserted business areas flourish in town. It would appear the focus is on the east side of 75, or the downtown area, but no one is talking about the old K-Mart area on Roosevelt, the old center down on S. Breil, the old Target center on S. University, the Marsh/old Montgomery Ward area down by the Nelbar overpass, etc. Those areas have been forgotten about as to filling those stores.

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 01 2010 at 9:02am
	VOR- of course it does. The answer is called "due diligence". Due diligence is running numbers, financial ratios, assessing hurdle rates and payback. None of that has been done. Evidently you don't understand that. Both city and C State acknowledged such. Since you have all the answers, what is the hurdle rate for a go vs no by C State? How many students will be on campus on average? What is the economic feasibility study and analysis of the additional benefit of students spending money in Middletown- food, gas, other purchases? How many of the current C State programs will be in Middletown? At any point in time, how many cars for student commuters will be in downtown- 500-1000-5000, and where are they to park? What would the monthly lease rate and for how many years, for C State to be obligated to repay a $20 Mm renovation investment through bonds, et al? What effect and $$$ will be associated with payrolll tax from C State? How many employees does C State estimate will be in Middletown on campus? What, if any, impact will this have on MUM's enrollment? How long before the architectural planning will be completed for the project? When would it open? What will be done to avoid the train bottleneck that takes about 10 minutes of time daily, to avoid delays in getting students downtown, and is C State aware of that impediment? What if C State comes back and says they want the Middletown Foundation or city to absorb 50% of costs, and city's expense, and $500 Kk becomes $10 Mm---go or no go? I'm sorry VOR, but I am not submitting my doctorate dissertation, so when my 90 wps and keyboard can't keep up, please overlook that tendency, and not the intellect behind the commentary. As far as development, I would consider MUM, although that may or may not have met your timeline criteria. Atrium just move of hospital from pt A to B- impact upon city in tax and attraction of residents minimal (if any). YMCA- sorry Vet, same calculus- move poaint A to point B. I do like having Kohl'sand Target out by the highway, although Target was again, moving from point A to point B.

Bill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 01 2010 at 9:06am
	I believe it was stated in the council meeting that the agreement with Thatcher estate is that if this deal falls through the city can back out of the building purchases.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Resident	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 01 2010 at 10:33am
	Oh---an exit strategy in place. Another handshake on top of a handshake. See where it goes.