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Vague Change we can believe in... |
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Middletown News
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Posted: Oct 23 2008 at 11:02am |
Dear Friends: My name is Joe Porter. I live in Champaign , Illinois . I'm 46 years old, a born-again Christian, a husband, a father, a small business owner, a veteran, and a homeowner. I don't consider myself to be either conservative or liberal, and I vote for the person, not Republican or Democrat. I don't believe there are 'two Americas ' but that every person in this country can be whomever and whatever they want to be if they'll just work to get there and nowhere else on earth can they find such opportunities. I believe our government should help those who are legitimately downtrodden, and should always put the interests of America first. The purpose of this message is that I'm concerned about the future of this great nation. I'm worried that the silent majority of honest, hard-working, tax-paying people in this country have been passive for too long. Most folks I know choose not to involve themselves in politics. They go about their daily lives, paying their bills, raising their kids, and doing what they can to maintain the good life. They vote and consider doing so to be a sacred trust. They shake their heads at the political pundits and so-called 'news', thinking that what they hear is always spun by whomever is reporting it. They can't understand how elected officials can regularly violate the public trust with pork barrel spending. They don't want government handouts. They want the government to protect them, not raise their taxes for more government programs. We are in the unique position in this country of electing our leaders. It's a privilege to do so. I've never found a candidate in any election with whom I agreed on everything. I'll wager that most of us don't even agree with our families or spouses 100% of the time. So when I step into that voting booth, I always try to look at the big picture and cast my vote for the man or woman who is best qualified for the job. I've hired a lot of people in my lifetime, and essentially that's what an election is - a hiring process. Who has the credentials? Whom do I want working for me? Whom can I trust to do the job right? I'm concerned that a growing number of voters in this country simply don't get it. They are caught up in a fervor they can't explain, and calling it 'change'. 'Change what?', I ask. 'Well, we're going to change America ', they say. 'In what way?', I query. 'We want someone new and fresh in the White House', they exclaim. 'So, someone who's not a politician?', I say. 'Uh, well, no, we just want a lot of stuff changed, so we're voting for Obama', they state. 'So the current system, the system of freedom and democracy that has enabled a man to grow up in this great country, get a fine education, raise incredible amounts of money and dominate the news, and win his party's nomination for the White House that system's all wrong?' 'No, no, that part of the system's okay we just need a lot of change.' And so it goes. 'Change we can believe in.' Quite frankly, I don't believe that vague proclamations of change hold any promise for me. In recent months, I've been asking virtually everyone I encounter how they're voting. I live in Illinois , so most folks tell me they're voting for Barack Obama. But no one can really tell me why only that he's going to change a lot of stuff 'Change, change, change.' I have yet to find one single person who can tell me distinctly and convincingly why this man is qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation on earth other than the fact that he claims he's going to implement a lot of change. We've all seen the emails about Obama's genealogy, his upbringing, his Muslim background, and his church affiliations. Let's ignore this for a moment. Put it all aside. Then ask yourself, 'What qualifies this man to be my president? That he's a brilliant orator and talks about change?' CHANGE WHAT? Friends, I'll be forthright with you I believe the American voters who are supporting Barack Obama don't have a clue what they're doing, as evidenced by the fact that not one of them - NOT ONE of them I've spoken to can spell out his qualifications. Not even the most liberal media can explain why he should be elected. Political experience? Negligible. Foreign relations? Non-existent. Achievements? Name one. Someone who wants to unite the country? If you haven't read his wife's thesis from Princeton , look it up on the web. This is who's lining up to be our next First Lady? The only thing I can glean from Obama's constant harping about change is that we're in for a lot of new taxes. For me, the choice is clear. I've looked carefully at the two leading applicants for the job, and I've made my choice. Here's a question - 'Where were you five and a half years ago? Around Christmas, 2002. You've had five or six birthdays in that time. My son has grown from a sixth grade child to a high school graduate. Five and a half years is a good chunk of time. About 2,000 days. 2,000 nights of sleep. 6,000 meals, give or take.' John McCain spent that amount of time, from 1967 to 1973, in a North Vietnamese prisoner-of-war camp. When offered early release, he refused it. He considered this offer to be a public relations stunt by his captors, and insisted that those held longer than he should be released first. Did you get that part? He was offered his freedom, and he turned it down. A regimen of beatings and torture began. Do you possess such strength of character? Locked in a filthy cell in a foreign country, would you turn down your own freedom in favor of your fellow man? I submit that's a quality of character that is rarely found, and for me, this singular act defines John McCain. Unlike several presidential candidates in recent years whose military service is questionable or non-existent, you will not find anyone to denigrate the integrity and moral courage of this man. A graduate of Annapolis, during his Naval service he received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. His own son is now serving in the Marine Corps in Iraq . Barack Obama is fond of saying 'We honor John McCain's service...BUT...', which to me is condescending and offensive - because what I hear is, 'Let's forget this man's sacrifice for his country, and his proven leadership abilities, and talk some more about change.' I don't agree with John McCain on everything - but I am utterly convinced that he is qualified to be our next President, and I trust him to do what's right. I know in my heart that he has the best interests of our country in mind. He doesn't simply want to be President - he wants to lead America , and there's a huge difference. Factually, there is simply no comparison between the two candidates. A man of questionable background and motives who prattles on about change, can't hold a candle to a man who has devoted his life in public service to this nation, retiring from the Navy in1981 and elected to the Senate in1982. Perhaps Obama's supporters are taking a stance between old and new. Maybe they don't care about McCain's service or his strength of character, or his unblemished qualifications to be President. Maybe 'likeability' is a higher priority for them than 'trust'. Being a prisoner of war is not what qualifies John McCain to be President of the United States of America - but his demonstrated leadership certainly DOES. Dear friends, it is time for us to stand. It is time for thinking Americans to say, 'Enough.' It is time for people of all parties to stop following the party line. It is time for anyone who wants to keep America first, who wants the right man leading their nation, to start a dialogue with all their friends and neighbors and ask who they're voting for, and why. There's a lot of evil in this world. That should be readily apparent to all of us by now. And when faced with that evil as we are now, I want a man who knows the cost of war on his troops and on his citizens. I want a man who puts my family's interests before any foreign country. I want my country back, and I'm voting for John McCain.
Signed,
Joe Porter
E-mail: ronald.hess@alumni.purdue.edu |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Ok Jonathan- did you post this because you want a response or did you post this just to inform us of one man's opinion among thousands? Response: If Joe Porter doesn't know by now what changes are being proposed, he hasn't paid much attention to any news or articles that have been presented. Some of the changes that have been proposed are as follows: The Iraq War- Obama wants some timeline to end this futile attempt to control terrorism in the Middle east. After 5 plus years, we have made only baby steps in securing the country and we should know that this type of war(like Vietnam)can not be won, no matter how long we stay. As soon as we leave, whether it be one year from now or many years from now(as McCain is proposing) the terrorists will return and dismantle all that we have accomplished. It happened with the North Vietnamese Army/Viet Cong in 1975. This is a guerilla(spelling) war(like Vietnam) and history has taught us that when we leave, the people will not resist, returning the country to terrorist control. Taxation to benefit the middle class people/businesses making less than $250,000 per year. No additional taxes for this group.Finally, PERHAPS, the middle class will see some benefits that have been enjoyed by the upper crust all these years. Examining existing programs to verify whether they are viable or a waste of taxpayer money INCLUDING social programs (made famous by the Democrats)- essentially an audit of government programs. A different direction from the path that George W. Bush has taken us. IE- repairing the damage done in the negative perception that Europe, Asia and the world have of us. A perception of pushing people around and pushing the Bush program of "our way or the highway" on our own citizens as well as the world's governments. The egotistical/elistist attitude of the Bush administration must change. It has damaged us in the world's standing. Since everyone refers to a global world nowadays, to compete, we need to present this country as being more cooperative with other nations.Talk and negotiation attempts hurt nothing for starters. There's some topics for Joe Porter to start with. He can take it from there. As for McCain's character in his military life, there is no question- he is a hero and an honorable man. However, you need to examine his personal life also, to get a picture of the entire man. I would suggest ole Joe Porter take time to read about McCain's private side of his life also. He has as many skeletons in his closet as Obama. Since we are in Republican Conservative land here, I'm severely outnumbered, but that's alright- it creates debate and offers varied opinions. Hopefully, we can keep this civil--- Pacman.Ok, conservatives- have at it.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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".......we can keep this civil--- Pacman."
Please elaborate when I haven't been civil on here.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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You have always been civil, Pacman. I just mentioned that because few topics create open "heated" discussions like politics. I was just anticipating a barrage. It was mentioned in light hearted fashion and was not meant to attack you. I enjoy your comments and learn from your posts. I enjoy your conservative viewpoints on this site. No harm intended.
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Middletown News
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Vet said, "As for McCain's character in his military life, there is no question- he is a hero and an honorable man."
I agree - See we can agree on some things.
Do you agree that someone with vast military experience would be better suited to be commander in cheif during time of war?
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Jonathan- as a military veteran of the same war that McCain was in, I don't care whether the commander in chief is a military veteran or not. What I do care about is that the commander in chief have some common sense and logic coupled with confirmed data in making his decisions. I would prefer not to be in a time of war period, particularly in a war like we are currently in, with no winnable solutions in sight.I see 58,000 names on a black granite wall(including some friends) in Washington and no one can tell me why they died. Tends to turn me off needlessly killing off young men to satisfy the whims of politicians wants. If indeed, we are in a war, I want to see the damn politicians keep their nose out of it and let the military people make the decisions. Political intervention is one reason we lost in Vietnam.Another is the stubborn continuation of futility and lying to the public about it being winnable by Johnson,followed by Nixon, who finally ended it in 1975. Sound familiar?
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Middletown News
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Vet Said, "What I do care about is that the commander in chief have some common sense and logic coupled with confirmed data in making his decisions."
I agree, if you remember, McCain was against the half assed way we went into this war. That's common sense to me. McCain was for the surge and the surge worked.
McCain equals Military Power, Obama wants to reduce the military spending.
Not now, that would be like raising taxes on the job makers. Another oops for Obama.
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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"Political intervention is one reason we lost in Vietnam" Total agreement. So why let politicians, or the political agenda of a new president, put us in that same position again? |
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Jonathan- we don't know if the surge has worked because everything is so muddled over there. We won't know until this war is over and done whether anything has truely worked or not. Did McCain vote against this war? I assume he did based on your statement that he was totally against the way we went into it. Are you sure Obama wants to reduce military spending? He wants to divert the effort from Iraq back into Afganistan where it all started.If he is allowed to do that, he won't be able to cut the military budget,even if he wanted to. How does being in the military equate to having "military power". It means he has been acclimated to the military more than Obama, but hardly guarantees a hard core military stance. Some militarily acclimated people aren't as hard line on the total power thing. As for job makers and raising taxes-just because you give tax breaks to employers for the purpose of creating jobs, doesn't guarantee they will do so, unless you apply that stipulation to the deal. Some companies aren't and haven't paid their fair share of taxes for years. Those are the ones that need to be looked at.Corporate tax loopholes and political "buddies" looking the other way have contributed to issues being questioned today.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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arwendt-Same position again?You're too late. We are already in that position. Have been for 5 + years. G.W. Bush, your president and politician, directed the country to war, strong arming using executive priviledge on almost everything he did. This war was started by a politician(s), just like Vietnam was. We learned nothing from Nam both politically and militarily. No, the new president, whoever it may be, must live with and clean up this cluster started by the current administration. (Same with the economy with shared blame placed on both the Repub controlled and Dem controlled Congress.)
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Middletown News
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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I want to go on record as saying that GW was worse than BC on economic policy.
And his biggest falure is helping the fed to ram rod all these bailouts thru congress.
Obama or McCain we are in for alot of pain. Sitll I would rather see a more fiscally responsible country, Obama leans the wrong way. Sorry. I have to vote for McCain.
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.308
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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Just to jump in here: I Disagree with it being too late because it’s never too late to stop making bad decisions. Obama wants to impose a politician’s agenda on the war. McCain wants to leave it to the generals. One of these is a bad decision.
Disagree with the Bush taking total responsibility for the war. He did not ask Hussein to bar UN inspectors. He did not ask Hussein to make countless threats against us. He did not cast the votes on behalf of Congress authorizing the use of force. I have no problem with disagreeing with how the war is being fought, but I sincerely believe the war in Iraq and Afghanistan must be fought. And of course I also disagree that we learned nothing from Vietnam. But since I doubt VieVet meant it in a literal sense I’ll give him a pass on that one. LOL |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Nope Surge hasn't done a thing has it? Personally I don't think the surge was designed to solve all of Iraqs problems. It was designed to make Iraq a more secure country for the Coalition forces and so that the Iraqi's could organize themselves Politically, Security wise and rebuild their infrastructure with our assistance. Vet even you have to admit that Iraq is a safer place now than 18-24 months ago........come on, be realistic.
War is not an exact science it doesn't operate on a time line. You can not predict with any certainty when this will end. All a publized time line does is give the enemy your plan and objective and they will just wait you out. Which is exactly what they will do to Obama if he wins and pulls out of Iraq.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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To quote von Clausewitz “War is a continuation of politics by other means.” In German the word is actually “Politik”, but politics is close enough.
But of course as leaders of The State it is always politicians who start wars, unless I imagine if you live in a state ruled by a military dictatorship. So then we could say that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan are potentially the results of political failures to resolve the matters by non military means. But the last time I looked there were lots of politicians in Washington and you have to admit our problems in the Middle East go back decades. So as someone here said of the economy, I would say here too, and that is there is plenty of blame to go around. But if anyone thinks Obama will win the hearts and minds of all of our enemies they are sadly mistaken. Many of enemies have beliefs that cannot be reconciled with, or even exist in the same world, as our own. One will prevail and one will fail. I agree that we must fight the war.
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Obama is so likeable it kills me.
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Similar to Clinton and GW---I like Obama, however I despise all that surrounds him.
I really have grown to dislike McCain surprisingly.
Obama and McCain both sat silently through the bailout vote crisis, refused to directly/specifically answer ?s about what they would do or change because of this crisis, then both voted quietly FOR the bailout once the big pork sandwich was added.
I have no use for either of them.
Crapped on by the left or crapped on by the right--you still end up covered with dung.
Biden has been part of the problem for over 30 years, while Palin is just face time.
Ron Paul was the correct choice imo.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Ron Paul???????????
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Pacman- yes, I agree that Iraq is a safer place than before-in certain areas of the country. Given that acknowledgement, the point I'm trying to make here is that whether we do it McCain's way and stay until we are able to "come home honorably" (as he says) or we leave in 16 months as Obama wants to do, the situation in Iraq will be the same. I predict that after the US presence is gone(whenever that is), there will be war between the Sunnis, sh*tes and Kurds with a dose of Taliban thrown in for good measure. There will be mass chaos and the country will be in turmoil until the winning faction gains control.The US backed Iraqui government will fold like an accordian and all of our efforts will have been wasted. Again, based on fact and history, when we left Vietnam in 1975, it didn't take long for the NVA and the Viet Cong to sweep down on Saigon, break through the embassy gates, remove the South Vietnamese flag and replace it with the North's flag. While that was occuring, the South's police and soldiers, trained by the US, peeled their uniforms off, left them in the streets and attempted to "blend" back in with the populace. So much for the money spent, effort wasted and lives lost on a people that after all we did for them, refused to defend themselves when it became crunch time. I see a similar scenario happening when we leave Iraq. So, IMO, why stay and kill more soldiers for a people who couldn't care less and for a country that we will never be able to stabilize permanently while wasting millions of dollars per month that are urgently needed here at home? This is not logical to me.As to your charts- did you ever think that it could be possible that the enemy would like the US to think the surge is working and are waiting for the right moment (9/11) to mount a counter guerilla plan to destabilize this "surge"? The enemy is not stupid, knows the country, conducts a "hide,seek, kill" type war involving a blown up Humvee here and a car there, taking out small groups. They strike and they run and hide.We look for their hiding places in the area we suspect they are in and they strike somewhere else. They're sneaky, they're deadly and they are good at the game of quick strike tactics. Hard to beat an enemy who conducts that type of warfare.JUST LIKE VIETNAM. IMO- many similarities.
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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So VieVet to help us understand your views on Iraq.... which was the bigger mistake:
To have left Vietnam the way we did or to have gone there in the first place?
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Not Vet, however I see Viet Nam as the larger error.
Govt. was maybe more headstrong back then than the Bush admin.
Still--I defer to Vet's judgement since he is slightly older and was there. I had a student deferment at that time(still have my draft card).
Yes Pacman, I liked Ron Paul.
I thought he was totally different and sensible.
I couldn't tell any difference between the others(in either party).
My daughter/soninlaw/inlaws all live in Ron Paul's district in Texas, and they all consider him a total lunatic and love Bush. Go figure.
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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All this "Army" talk made me look this up:
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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arwendt- IMO the worst mistake was to have gone there in the first place under the guise of stopping the spread of communism back then by our government. We ended up killing 58,000+ 18, 19, 20 year old men, losing an unwinnable guerilla war and seeing all the money, training of the South Vietnamese military and police, equipment left over there in the 1975 evacuation of the country all lost for no good reason. Couple that with the war being run by the damn politicians with little to no authority given to the military leaders to do their jobs. We would go out, kill, get a body count to report on the evening news so that the news channels could report how "successful" we were that day toward winning the war. It was all a shame and a lie to the public. What they didn't tell the public was that the US would pull back on territory captured and hand it back to the enemy, just to go out later and re-capture the same territory the next day incuring more casualties. The way the war was run was a joke. The NVA and Viet Cong were very good at what they did. They were on their home turf. It was difficult fighting a jungle war.They would play hide and then seek and kill. Farmers by day- killers by night.As in Iraq, you couldn't tell who the enemy was. The landscape was as big an enemy as the actual enemy was. The big wigs really didn't think about the consequences of that war before launching into it full bore.Again, I see similar things occuring now.
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arwendt
MUSA Official Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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"IMO the worst mistake was to have gone there in the first place"
I would say the same thing and if there is one or even two overwhelming similarities between Vietnam and Iraq I would say it is the lack of a clear exit strategy and perhaps the lack of political or popular support to win at any cost. Though I cannot find it on the internet I remember an interview with a NVA officer who was asked how the north could continue the war after losing every major engagement. The officer responded that they may be the case but that it was irrelevant. And that is the problem in Iraq.
But the withdrawal of US forces from South East Asia and the cutting of funds for ARVN operations ensured nothing short of the Catastrophic loss of life that followed.
I would prefer that we not repeat that mistake. |
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“Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.” Benjamin Franklin - More at my Words of Freedom website.
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