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Tax Abatements vs. New Jobs/Reinvestment
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swohio75 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jun 13 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 820 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 01 2017 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Analytical Analytical wrote:

Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

Originally posted by middiemom middiemom wrote:

Here we go again. Nelson having another conversation with himself. 🙄

Wait for it wait for it...poof it's gone.  

Sad, sad individual.  Constant rehashing.  Posting, deleting, reposting, deleting.  

He needs help.



SWOhio75 -

We're still waiting for you to offer ANY POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS to help resolve Middletown's numerous challenges.  I do note that you're quite talented when it comes to excessively biting critiques, personal insults, defending One Donham Abbey senior staff, etc., etc.

What say you when it comes to "downtown" as well as older neighborhood  revitalization priorities, policies, plan and programs of the city?  Do you agree or disagree that millions in city taxpayer funds have been utilized cost-effectively for highest and best use undertakings?

I've already made it clear in several other posts my position on several of the downtown deals, I am not going to rehash my opinions.

As I previously stated, I am not running for public office, have not benefited from any "deal" and do not work for the city. 

Who is waiting for me to offer solutions?  You?  Sorry, I am not going to waste my time with a former disgruntled employee who no longer resides in Middletown, and who has no invested interest other than self vindication. 

 
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RoyG View Drop Down
MUSA Immigrant
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Joined: Sep 26 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoyG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 03 2017 at 1:57am
Like your comments and points. Tax abatement s are out we have the highest tax rate in butler county. Keep on talking. I am also running for city council next week.I would apreciate your vote.
Roy Gordon
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Analytical View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 19 2015
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2017 at 10:18am
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

I get your points about nelson, though to expand here:

Let's talk about the long-running plan of residential demolition---over the last 50+ years, we operated very successful businesses in all areas of middletown. We had a neighborhood concept. Over the last 10+ years, I watched the destruction of these neighborhoods, particularly in the Sutphin/Moore/Crawford area and in the former 2nd ward. Dilapidated housing was demo'ed in a somewhat random manner, leaving these areas looking like a 3rd world city that had been bombed. The now empty lots are too small to be re-constructed and flanked by housing that honestly isn't much better. Instead of having people live there, now we have nothing = loss of customers/shoppers = loss of necessary business, + the overall ambiance and crime rate of these areas hasn't really changed.

No coincidence that I sold my former 2nd ward business and my Central Ave business after sales declines. I sold my 2nd ward business to the best operator that I know currently in similar profession. Without any press or admin knowledge/concern, he recently closed that business and stripped the building. Why? Because he could never increase business traffic + the strip center has been neglected by both the landlord, Chamber and Admin. THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT HE WAS CLOSING/CLOSED THE BUSINESS!!! Neither ED or Chamber EVER visited the owner or landlord contrary to their repeated business-friendly claims and repeated assurances that they all had made those visits. Trust me on this.

I then sold my Central Ave business property, stripped the building, and now we have an incredibly dysfunctional Dollar General in it's place(how many will we have in town by year's end?). Bottom line---the housing demos have not helped these struggling neighborhoods, and now we have two very important "food deserts" in totally residential mid-city areas. We are incredibly fortunate that the former Marsh location found a quality buyer, or the situation would be FAR worse.
ED, Admin and Chamber did not involve themselves in any of these situations, yet they celebrate the "coming soon" opening of every trinket shop in the former downtown area(which IS slowly getting better thanks to concerned young entrepreneurs returning to their home for very cool start-ups and residence).

To me--this seems like a serious issue to be openly addressed by ED/Admin/Chamber/DMI/MMF/CBI/MSS and everyone in power who honestly cares about the entire city prospering and moving forward in a positive way.

so--SWOhio, middiemom/middie29, ED, Mr.A-----tell me where I am wrong here?
I obviously still care for my community, show it in ways you probably don't know about, still have a residence here and want to be involved.

help me out--and quit sniping @ one another!!!

SpiderJohn -

An excellent post that needed to be repeated (except for your one-liner about me at the beginning)  It's great to know that you concur with some of my many comments about community development matters over the past eight plus years.
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
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Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2017 at 10:54am
i understand their thinking--didn't say that I agree with them
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Analytical View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 19 2015
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 08 2017 at 12:32pm
Fair enough, SpiderJohn.

Your opinions certainly carry a good deal of clout in many circles.

I've always maintained that city staff plus city council would be well-served to evaluate/act upon the contents of your posts of the past decade given your years as a successful Middletown entrepreneur and civic-engaged resident/buiness owner.

I'm hopeful Ami Vitori brings a new perspective to the city's methods of remedying current deficiencies and bringing cost-efficient, highest/best use opportunities for community development.

I still envy you for having been a Woodstock attendee back in the turbulent late 1960's.

I also remember my high school and college friends in S.W. Missouri who "spent time" in S.E. Asia such as our own VietVet.
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Analytical View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 19 2015
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2017 at 11:56am
Simple Question?

What's the projected additional dollar amount of subsidies that "downtown" redevelopment deals (both started and not started) will require from the city coffers?  Since the city's Downtown Fund and UDAG Fund accounts only have reported $330k and $95k balances thanks to recent Finance Department inquiries made by Vivian Moon, what other sources of city funds will need to be tapped?

The projects in question include:  1)  Manchester Inn; 2) Sonshine Building; 3) Rose Furniture Building; 4) Liberty Spirits (Vail Avenue/Central Avenue portion); and, 5) Goetz Tower.
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FmrMide81 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Aug 26 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 188 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FmrMide81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2017 at 6:52pm
As the recent election proved-NOBODY CARES!
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Analytical View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Nov 19 2015
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Analytical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 13 2017 at 12:03pm
If it's true that NOBODY CARES, why should Middletown taxpayers be concerned about generous property tax "concessions" provided for  "downtown" redevelopment projects?  Why should Middletown taxpayers be concerned about shouldering indirect subsidies for these mostly stalled or incomplete deals?  Is it debatable that the Middletown of 2022 or even 2027 will be much different than it is today?  Are these are matters worthy of your consideration?
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buddhalite View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
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Joined: May 11 2017
Location: Middletown
Status: Offline
Points: 499 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote buddhalite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 13 2017 at 4:08pm
Nelson,

I think you might be reading a bit too much into FormerMiddie's comment.  It is not that NO ONE cares.....it is that the 20-odd active participants of this forum are the only people who care enough to speak out and stand up.  

The poll results of this last last election show - well, that noboby cares.  

See - this is why I can't believe that I get slammed for caring, doing what I can to change things, public and private lobbying for different things, and on and on - when the truth is nobody cares.

The ones who do care here tend to be either shun outsiders, measure others against their own perfect yardsticks, be a one-horse wonder or just flat out wouldn't be happy if you hung 'em with a new rope.

This is why I have stated to you and many others - if one of us really wants to make a run at office - it's going to be a full 2-year exercise in campaigning.  It's going to be an everyday all-day event for the candidate.  It's going to take someone going living room to living room talking until their jaw falls off - getting the base wound up - to make a difference.

The sad part is - no one cares.  Middletown has suffered from milquetoast leadership for so long - that I think the average voter has given up on hope of a brighter tomorrow.  Where every last one of our neighbors is doing better than they were 15 years ago - only Middletown is not.  The people who really cared left.  They went places where the leadership isn't just a mutual admiration society.  They went places where the administrations' spent money wisely on real growth - and they've never looked back.

It is true - nobody cares - and most of all, those same nobodies don't care about the same thing you and I and the rest of the regulars here care about.  The point behind the original post - I think - was the we need to set our sights on things we actually can change, drop the hobby horses, and unite our views to smaller more manageable pieces we can actually work with councilmembers on to make a difference - and in 2 years - actually gin up some support and get one, two or God forbid THREE of us on council!

Bob
"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
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