SB5 Protesters and Petitioners in Middletown

The statement should have been,,,,Hey Hey HO HO AJSmith needs to go!!!

Until I graduated from Midd. High School in 1966, I lived with my grandparents on Grand Ave. Grandpa was my dad and worked for 46 years at Armco. Always coming home and telling grandma and I about the mill and some of the management activities out there. I developed a dislike for management and supported the union-"oppressed worker" side of things. That was in the 50's and 60's. I carried this thinking with me through most of my working life, never having worked in a union shop through eight employers and having the dislike for management further engrained by being downsized three times since 1994. That'll get you hating the man real fast.

Here it is 2011, and I've changed my tune a little. Incredible as it seems, I agree with Kasich and what he is attempting to do in this money crunch for both state and cities across Ohio.

I now see union people paying 9% toward their healthcare while I fork out close to 20% for medical premium coverage per paycheck. I see union folks paying very little into their retirement while I must contribute 5,10 or 15% into mine to have a decent retirement package at age 70.

I see union wages totally outpacing mine for like-skilled jobs. My job is as technical as any at AK. We non-union folks don't have collective bargaining and must take whatever the boss says we are worth based on our contributions during the year. It's called merit. We take the raise, no matter the percentage, and walk out of the room, just happy to have a frikkin' job in this lousy economy and don't bit-- about it as much nowadays.

My non-union jobs have always been about merit. Tenure isn't even in the cards in a non-union shop. I believe a person should be judged and rewarded on merit, not paid on a pre-negotiated contract for work that has yet to be performed. IMO, you work, you contribute, you prove yourself valuable to the operation.....then you are rewarded with whatever the company can afford to give you at the time. Sometimes it has been around 3%, sometimes it has been 0.5%. Never has it been 0%.

Hopefully AJ, as he matures and events happen in his life, will see the light and think twice about supporting a negotiation system that has seen its day and no longer fits into the equation of today's economics. If the union folks think that this is just trying to bust the unions, their precious collective bargaining negotiation system is busting the budgets of the cities and the state. Both can no longer afford the demands any longer. There just isn't enough revenue coming in to the cities nor the state to meet their demands. Union folks have had the better of it for decades over the rest of us working people. The time has come where it is no longer affordable for employers to negotiate at the same pace. It is time to make some concessions and start paying what the rest of us have been paying for quite a while now. JMO

Oh, and the video.....AJ, you can't chant Hey, hey, ho, ho Larry Mulligan has to go and then go sit next to him at the council desk on a Tuesday without creating some friction between other council members as well as you and Mayor Mulligan. I don't care for Mulligan either but you have a job to do as a councilperson and should have placed that above your personal feelings on supporting union activity. You made the wrong choice son, IMO.

Viet Vet - I think I'm beginning to get an idea of what has really happened here. My father worked for Delco-Moraine and I grew up in the same union friendly, worker oppressed household. I also remember how police, firefighters, teachers, (public workers), etc., were underpaid for the job they did. It seemed a given that if you went into the public sector, you were going to have less opportunity to advance but that wasn't the reason to go into public service. It was about being of service to the community.

TonyB....

"Your statement about being judged and rewarded on merit and not paid a pre-negotiated contract for work yet to be performed is interesting. It brought to mind how professional sports contracts are handed out, on potential not necessarily on performance. The whole point about taking what the boss gives you and you'd best be grateful sums up why unions got started in the first place. If they break the unions now, that situation will only get worse no matter the economic conditions. Union or non-union, workers in both the public and private sector need to ban together and have the corporations start making some concessions and paying for what they are receiving".

Tony, the idea of paying a professional sports player several million dollars before they throw one pitch, make one basket, or throw one completion has always astonished me. How did we get to the point of paying a person before we see what kind of a job they will do. Do you pay the company putting a roof on your house before they lay the first shingle. Not if you're smart, you won't. Once they have your money, some don't care what kind of job they do. Withholding payment until the job is satisfactorily completed is your bargaining chip in the transaction.

As far as union and non-union people banding together to start having corporations start making concessions.......I can tell you that you are wasting your time. The corporations will just laugh, not consider you a serious threat and promptly make plans to vacate the premises to locate to a more friendly environment to do business. You can't fight large corporations anymore. They have the upper hand. Union people need to let it go and quit trying to force a company who is in the driver's seat to agree to their demands. It ain't gonna happen anymore. Just appreciate what they give you and that you have a job now. It could be a helleva lot worse. Ask all the people who have been unemployed for more than two years now. Companies don't want the hassle of disgruntled (protesting) workers demanding more. They will go oversees with cheap labor options and to avoid worker conflicts. That's the new option they have discovered when it became business on a global basis. Go to where the operational problems are the least, wages and benefits are the cheapest and the profits are the most. Makes sense from a business standpoint....hurts the folks trying to get a fair shake sometimes.

TonyB,

Regarding your statement "Union or non-union, workers in both the public and private sector need to ban together and have the corporations start making some concessions and paying for what they are receiving."

I'll ignore the implication that somehow corporations don't pay for the labor they now receive and only focus on the "Corporation" aspect of your remark.

The way I see it the very fact that public sector employees and their union are Not dealing with a Corporation changes everything.

If the employees of say, AK Steel, think the company is making a decent profit and want their union to negotiate a new and more favorable contract.. go for it. That's between them and AK Steel Corporation.

If the union negotiates a raise, or improved benefits, then AK is free to raise the cost of its product or live with lower profits. If the cost of the product is increased, then AK's customers are free to continue purchasing from AK or to buy from another vendor. That's how a Corporation deals with changing costs.

However, when a public sector union negotiates and receives improved benefits or wages, say from the city, what's the product whose cost can be adjusted? What freedom do the consumers of the product have to buy from another vendor? This is simply not the same dynamic.

So IMO, discussing both public And private sector unions as if they are somehow the same, and their need to make someone "pay for what they are receiving", is a little off the mark.

Upon listening to Jon Harvey, I thought I was listening to the same speech by Brian Daley, that killed his union with his inept negotiation with AK. Mr. Harvey, this has nothing to do with budgets but an assault on hard working middle class workers? OMG, how hilarious. That argument won't sell, the dog won't hunt. It has EVERYTHING to do with taming costs. Can't wait to see it implemented, can't wait to see it defeated if placed on a ballot, and cannot wait to see AJ Smith out of office. 2nd Ward---you are not being served by this mouthpiece for Obama and union vote snatching.

Vet - everyone must follow their own path and do what they think is right. If they stop doing that, you know my mantra.... I oppose SB5 also but I'm also not a member of city council so it doesn't really matter. I really don't know about the conflict of interest between councilman and pursuing a career from a legal or ethical point of view. I see elected office as a service and not a job. The $5k is compensation for the time, not a salary. I don't believe he could be employed by the city and be on council. He could certainly train for a fire position. I believe in term limits and politicians getting promoted to private citizen!! He will need a career!!!