Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Monday, May 13, 2024
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Substitute Teachers
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Substitute Teachers

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Substitute Teachers
    Posted: May 15 2012 at 6:30am
Today's Journal...

Sub plan will help Middletown schools cut costs

MIDDLETOWN — The Middletown City School Board will enter into an agreement with the Substitute Services Consortium. The move could save the district $200,000 in substitute teaching fees next school year.

“We’re going to save time in the contract because the Educational Service Center will train all of our substitutes and process all of our substitutes,” Superintendent Greg Rasmussen said. “And we’ll also have a cost savings in how we’re going to pay our substitutes. We’re going to pay our substitutes a little less.”

GOING TO HAVE A "COST SAVINGS"? THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE THE DISTRICT WAS PAYING THEM $16 MORE PER DAY THAN THE HIGHEST RATE IN THE COUNTY AT $85. NOW, INSTEAD OF EXCEEDING THE HIGHEST RATE, YOU WILL BE MATCHING THE HIGHEST RATE. THIS IS "CONFUSED TALK" BY THE SUPER. "GOING TO PAY OUR SUBSTITUTES A LITTLE LESS"....BUT STILL AT THE HIGHEST RATE.

Rasmussen said the district currently pays substitute teachers $101.46 per day. But under the new agreement, it would pay them $85 per day, he said.

“The $85 is still the highest in Butler County, but we felt that we needed to come more in line with where the rest of Butler County was,” Rasmussen said

IF $85 IS STILL THE HIGHEST IN BUTLER COUNTY, WHY IS THE SCHOOL DISTRICT CURRENTLY PAYING THEM $101.46? WHY SO MUCH MORE THAN THE $85? WHY DID YOU JUST NOW "FEEL YOU NEEDED TO COME MORE IN LINE WITH WHERE THE REST OF BUTLER COUNTY WAS"? HOW DID YOU ARRIVE AT THE $101.46 RATE IF YOU KNEW YOU WERE WAY OVER THE HIGHEST? SUPER JIBBERISH. POOR MONEY MANAGEMENT. TRYING TO SHOW COST SAVINGS AND A "LOOK AT US TAXPAYERS, WE'RE TRYING TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO YOU FOR YOUR VOTE" IN PREPARATION FOR GEARING UP FOR A NEW LEVY. TOO OBVIOUS SUPER.





Back to Top
TonyB View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 12 2011
Location: Middletown, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 631
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 7:13am
Vet,

It really isn't difficult to figure out why MCSD has to pay substitutes more; you have pointed out some of the reasons in previous posts. Poor discipline, lack of academic focus, safety in the classroom, these could be just a few of the reasons why you'd have to pay a substitute more. I'm curious as to whether this substitute consortium allows teachers to refuse assignments to schools they don't want to be in. I don't really think they're trying to be accountable as much as this is a good PR move for the upcoming levy push.
Back to Top
Chris Fiora View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Mar 16 2010
Location: Middletown OH
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 10:46am
Vet,
You make some good points. However, the school district has done a great job reducing their costs.  They reduced their costs $4.6mm this year and will reduce them another $2.7mm next year for a total of $7.3mm per year.  Much of this was a salary reduction and additional employee contributions to health care from the teachers and administrators.  These are actual cost reductions...not reductions from an inflated budget.  They did this without affecting student programs.  Middletown still offers many programs that other districts do not; clubs, orchestra, sports, honors classes, etc.
 
As the proverbial "onion" is peeled, more "overspending" will probably come to light, though its getting harder and harder to find savings as more issues are addressed.  Because each issue is addressed as it is discovered this is a good thing and something to be proud of.  The current forecast shows that the district will need to ask for an operating levy...but not until 2014 - 2015.  I can't recall exactly but I know that it's been at least 6 - 8 years since the district has asked for any additional money.
 
With the funding cuts from the state this has been quite an accomplishment from our school disctict.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2012 at 11:40am
I commend the school district for the recent cuts and encourage this district to keep cutting to the basics. Private companies are unloading people, equipment and facilities. I see no reason why the schools should be absolved from doing the same thing in these tough times. The state is cutting funds to local schools. That is a much repeated theme from the school folks. We taxpayers understand that your state money tap has been turned off. All the more reason why you folks need to make better informed decisions, make do with the money you have, reduce your system to correspond with the money available to operate it and do as we all are doing.......live lean and mean, just surviving with the basics until times are a little kinder to us all. No time to tolerate excessive fat. No time to ask for more.

IMO, you should always have the "peel the onion" thinking going, not just in lean times but in more prosperous times too. Unfortunately, we taxpayers have seen some hiring of layers upon layers/redundancy of responsibilities and high salary jobs within the schools AND the city building in the better times, when money was more readily available. That's when "Vice President of Rubber Band Consumption and Director of Paper Clip" positions are created. When you folks do that, it reduces the impact of acting in a more responsible manner when times are lean. IMO, you have a long way to go to give us a "warm feeling" about your intentions. JMO

Specifically, Mr. Fiora, why do you think the district was paying $101.46 per day when the max. for the county was $85? How did we get to that point and why wasn't this fact monitored, questioned and changed to the $85 amount a long time ago? Why would Middletown schools, always asking for money from the taxpayer through one levy or another, be paying more than any other district in the county for this service with the super just now announcing the district is coming more in-line with the other districts? What other services are we paying far more for than any other district and why aren't costs monitored as compared to other districts costs?

Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 6:20am
I will ask again, Mr. Fiora.

Specifically, Mr. Fiora, why do you think the district was paying $101.46 per day when the max. for the county was $85? How did we get to that point and why wasn't this fact monitored, questioned and changed to the $85 amount a long time ago? Why would Middletown schools, always asking for money from the taxpayer through one levy or another, be paying more than any other district in the county for this service with the super just now announcing the district is coming more in-line with the other districts? What other services are we paying far more for than any other district and why aren't costs monitored as compared to other districts costs?

Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 9:36am
Vet, I wasn't going to respond initially, but after your second question for Chris, I feel I must.

I certainly agree your question has merit. My point is what is it any taxpayer or individual can expect anyone on the school board to do, how much additional effort to exert, when they don't get paid, they attend meetings for free, giving their time freely? That is the real question you are asking.

My position is in the ideal world, we'd have school board members who were world-class bench markers, whom knew and did a thorough analysis of the top districts in Ohio, and other states, and implemented constantly best practices, including best practices associated with driving down operational costs.

Candidly, there are a few districts that do have this type of mindset. They hire a superintendent who may be motivated just on his own, or at the board's direction, to drive the heck out of waste and costs.That is not to state the MCSD board could not ask for the same measures, but there are just to many issues to deal. One has attendance problems, discipline, athletics, state compliance, hiring/ firing, retirement, substitution (personnel), and many, many issues.

In summary, I just don't think you can beat up on the local board. Are there a few that should be off the board, maybe stayed too long? Surely. In utopia, would it be an additional asset to have every member a Black Belt in process improvement and continuous improvement guru? Of course. But will that happen? No.

To alter the school districts upon reducing costs, increasing performance, that is driven by the Governor and the state, and trickles down. Many districts could consolidate resources, and manpower.  Think of a school district as a hospital. Districts throughout Ohio have redundancy, including of course, MCSD. It is analogous to every hospital having their own MRI machine, instead of sharing, but that is the manner Ohio is run and is funded.

Your point was on roughly $100.00 a day for substitutes is much too high. Ohio offers through its teachers union, one of the most generous medical benefit packages and time-off arrangements on the planet. For example, if you have a new born, you get your 6-8 weeks off. If your spouse wants to do a medical leave to be with you during the time after the baby is born, you simply take off. Your job is protected for a year after. I don't believe IBM nor P & G provide that. But, that scenario creates a need, and do others, for substitutes. Teachers get il, they have short term and long term disability needs. Teachers have babies, and so on. If a sub taught 5 days a week, 4.3 weeks a month, times 9 months, they make $20,000. I don't consider a Costco cart pusher salary, to be outrageous.

Your obvious pt is why is Middletown paying 18% more than other districts? Well, the question becomes, are there are abundance of subs in Middletown, awaiting a call...or do they come from outside the area? I seriously doubt if Middletown uses more or less subs than other districts. Could it be those that do sub choose another district? Maybe---but usually substituting gets you in the door for a full-time position, and if you evaluate MCSD payroll metric, its about at the mid-pt for pay, better than many local smaller districts, not as grand as Mason. Just in the mean. Does Middletown have to pay more because of its urban nature---potential for violence, other problems? Perhaps. Does Hamilton have the same problems at $85.00 a day? Perhaps.

I'd focus efforts to have the Governor reduce waste and get costs down in the school system and the state universities. I've said a few times, Clinton's former staffer, Erskin Boles, did that when he was at UNC- Chapel Hill. He brought in McKinsey when he ws President, and they re-engineered every process, driving out tens of hundreds of $ Mm in waste. That's why UNC-Chapel Hill is a top 5 state school, and the cost is 30% of what Miami at Oxford to be.

In utopia, all school board members would be Black Belts. In MCSD, that's just unrealistic. The issue is not the pay of subs, the issue is why are not costs being driven downward throughout the state of Ohio in public education. There are trees, and there are forests. Move back up the to root of the problem and gaze at the forest, not the trees and the substitute teachers simply a small part of the ecosystem.

   
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 11:00am
acclaro

The city and the schools are always paying out money for consulting fees for one reason or another.(usually resulting in nothing accomplished) I can think of no better reason to spend money than to sponsor a study (and implement it-not just talk about it), that will reduce waste in the city and the school district. If other school districts can study their current hierarchy and methods of operation and can make the appropriate adjustments, resulting in a more streamlined system, with better results, I don't understand why the Middletown schools can't do the same. It is a matter of wanting to change, of wanting to stop the waste, of wanting to make the tough decisions on operation and manpower, of wanting to stand their ground when negotiating with an out-of-control/too big for their britches teacher's union that will make real changes.

With all due respect to the current board members, perhaps we need some executives from private industry on the school board to step up to offer a new perspective on the re-organization topic here. They have the credentials to look at the overall operation, the areas of waste, the bottom line, and the manpower and may have insight as to what needs to be done to get to the meat and potatoes to operate with positive results. Don't know if the backgrounds of those who have served has been the correct fit for what needs to be understood in order to fix things the right way. You must commend those that have given their time, but, perhaps, they may have had the wrong background to address the entire picture.

For Middletown schools, all it would take would be "Erskin Boles" type individuals, who would come in, take charge and start making the appropriate changes necessary to correct this district. Now, where do we find these types of individuals, how do we get them to take on the challenge and how much resistance will be forthcoming? Where do you go to find such dynamic individuals? To my knowledge, there hasn't been those types of people in the city building nor on the school board for decades. Instead, we get those who do a lot of sitting, alot of listening, alot of talking, but who demonstrate no rational, logical, "take the bull by the horns" aggressiveness nor persuasive powers needed to get things done. No one wants to propose radical change. No one wants to rock the boat. No one wants to lead the pack. No one wants to be DYNAMIC.
Back to Top
Chris Fiora View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Mar 16 2010
Location: Middletown OH
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Fiora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 12:09pm
Vet,
It is a matter of priority.  I think that you missed my post where I told you that the district has reduced the annual cost by $7,300,000 per year while maintaining all of the programs for our students and while increasing test scores.  Sure there are probably more cost saving to be had, but they will all be for smaller dollars.  And yes you can complain and bitch that we should have seen them and taken action sooner, but wouldn't you rather see us focus on the large dollar savings first?
 
To answer your specific question I have no idea when and who and why the high rate for substitutes was established.  It was many years ago. 
 
The culture of our school district is changing.  We are becoming much more cost concious and are rapidly improving our test scores.  It can never improve fast enough but the results are there and are quantifiable and measurable.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 1:13pm
"To answer your specific question I have no idea when and who and why the high rate for substitutes was established. It was many years ago"

Thank you for your answer Mr. Fiora. That is what I was interested in.

"It is a matter of priority. I think that you missed my post where I told you that the district has reduced the annual cost by $7,300,000 per year while maintaining all of the programs for our students and while increasing test scores. Sure there are probably more cost saving to be had, but they will all be for smaller dollars"

Good work and sound thinking here. You and your group are to be commended. A great epitaph for your board's accomplishments. Keep cutting, albeit the small items. It all adds up.


"The culture of our school district is changing. We are becoming much more cost concious and are rapidly improving our test scores. It can never improve fast enough but the results are there and are quantifiable and measurable."

It took a catalyst like a poor economy, tight money, less money from the state, levy failures, an understanding from school people that the parents, citizens and taxpayers are slowly becoming intolerable of business as usual from the schools to cause the change in school culture. In better times, it would never have happened if these phenomenon wouldn't have occured. It would have been business as usual. People, systems and cultures don't change unless they are forced to change.

"And yes you can complain and bitch that we should have seen them and taken action sooner, but wouldn't you rather see us focus on the large dollar savings first?"

If you want to call questioning the system and asking a legitimate question on behalf of the taxpayer bitching and complaining, be my guest Mr. Fiora. As a shareholder in your educational system, and you, as an elected official, placed there by the voters by the way, have an obligation, since you have chosen to respond on this forum, to do as you have volunteered to do.....IE answer questions concerning what we all are funding. Your "bitching/ complaining" statement doesn't surprise me. In typical fashion, if someone raises an uneasy question, as opposed to "just going along with the flow", they are labeled as a "complainer" or are "bitching". (Same with the use of the word "disgruntled employee". We've heard that alot when a whistleblower advertises a company's dirty little secrets. Might be a legitimate reason for "being disgruntled" but because one doesn't cower down to the establishment and resents being steamrollered by the all powerful, they are cast in a bad light. Typical PR attempt to do damage control.) Some of us don't buy the company line all the time.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1878
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2012 at 1:15pm
I used to work at PWC with a team of 7, that would go in large F100's for 3 months, take apart every bolt and process, and we'd walk away on average of $875 Mm in cost savings. We'd start high, and then go low, including the elimination of redundant Wall Street Journal subscriptions. So good, in fact, we were written up in Chainsaw Al Dunlap's book, Chainsaw, who finally crashed and burned at Sunbeam as CEO.

But, you can't expect non paid, board volunteers Vet, to be bullish on micro-economic expenses. It doesn't work effectively, and there is a component of morale boosting and supporting the teachers and administrators they must also balance.

I do not believe Mr. Fiora was slighting you nor avoiding your issue. His message was they are cutting redwoods now, ergo, higher contribution of paid medical, holding pay rates, and in time, will get down to surplus rubber bands and how many erasers should be in storage. Heck, they haven't even gotten down to the iPads and fuel allowance for those driving to and from school yet. Patience is a virtue.   .     .



 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 7008
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 06 2012 at 6:37am
Here we go again.......substitute teacher's pay- highest in Middletown.

Today's Journal....

Middletown remains highest in county for substitute teaching pay

The highest paying substitute teaching jobs in the county will remain in the Middletown City School District despite the district lowering its substitute pay rate more than 15 percent.

SO HOW DID THE SUB TEACHER PAY RISE TO SUCH HIGH NUMBERS IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHO AGREED TO ALLOW THE PAY TO BE THE HIGHEST IN THE COUNTY, GIVEN THE FACT THE MIDDLETOWN SCHOOLS ARE TYPICALLY THE POOREST PERFORMER IN THE COUNTY? DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO PAY THE HIGHEST RATE AND ACHIEVE THE LOWEST PERFORMANCE. NO VALUE FOR THE BUCK HERE.

The new rate is remains the highest in the area according to a Middletown Journal examination of area school districts substitute pay rates

REMAINS THE HIGHEST RATE.....LOOKS LIKE THE SCHOOL BOARD DIDN'T SLICE ENOUGH OFF THE LAST CUT.

“It is a matter of supply and demand,” Middletown Superintendent Greg Rasmussen said. “We are fortunate to have a strong pool of outstanding substitute teachers, but many of them drive from out of town to work in Middletown. ... Our top priority is having a high-quality teacher in every classroom.”

IF IT'S SUPPLY AND DEMAND, RASMUSSEN, WHY DO OTHER SCHOOLS SEEM TO FILL THE SUBSTITUTE NEEDS AND PAY LESS. THIS WOULD IMPLY THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH SUBS IN THE PIPELINE AT A LOWER RATE AND THERE IS NO NEED TO PAY SUBSTANTIALLY MORE FOR THEIR SERVICES. IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT YOUR SO-CALLED "HIGH QUALITY TEACHER IN EVERY CLASSROOM" IS MAKING A DIFFERENCE BASED ON YOUR PROFICIENCY GRADES AND SCHOOL DISTRICT RANKING IN THE STATE.

But in order to retain a solid pool of subs for their schools, Middletown still made sure to equal the highest pay rate in the Butler County

NO, ACTUALLY THE ARTICLE SAYS YOU ARE THE HIGHEST. WHY, WHEN OTHER SCHOOLS GET THE JOB DONE WITH BETTER RESULTS FOR A LESSER RATE?

Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 07 2012 at 11:08am
The article said that Hamilton Schools also pays $85/day.  This would equal the highest rate in Butler County. The headlines and article were misleading in its reporting. (Not for argumentative purposes, but for clarity and fairness.)    chmoore

 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.068 seconds.
Copyright ©2024 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information