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MUM, Quest Holdings & Confucian Institute |
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Bill 
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Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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 Topic: MUM, Quest Holdings & Confucian InstitutePosted: Oct 14 2014 at 6:54am |
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Many colleges have been increasing their enrollment of international students, often at the expense of our local Ohio students. Why? Because these people have to pay the full (exhorbitant) out of state tuition. And schools like Miami feel it's very important to take ever more out of staters and international students, most of whom have little English skills, so it can keep building Taj Majals on their campuses.
MUM has a program where these international (Chinese) students spend a year at MUM learning English and taking basic courses before moving on to Oxford. These students even have a company that arranges this program, Quest Holdings, which has purchased the old Holiday House and a couple apartment buildings in Olde Towne. There is a strong connection between Quest and something called the Confucian Institute, which is probably the primary funder of Quest. The Confucian Institute is run by many members of the Chinese politburo, actual communist party members, and has hundreds of these arrangements with universities in the U.S.
So is this simply a case of Chinese parents wanting to send their kids to America and get a great education? Only partly. But of course we should have known the "red" in Red China would surface. Here's a story on Fox News about how these schools are pressured to kow tow to Chinese doctrine, avoiding criticisms and sensitive topics like the Tianenman Square democracy riots in 1989 as well as teaching that places like Taiwan and Tibet are part of China.
We all know China has us over a barrel, now it seems they're even sticking it to us right in our own universities and we can thank greedy Presidents like David Hodge for this. So while our state tax dollars go to schools like Miami, the school itself is busy wasting millions to build glitzy palaces, distancing itself from Ohio kids, taking in thousands of international students, and presenting these same Chinese students a sanitized version of concepts like freedom, democracy, and Chinese history. And no doubt this is all occuring while liberal professors indoctrinate the students about how America is the great cause of sufffering in the world.
It's time for Miami to say no to this program!
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Stanky
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Posted: Oct 22 2014 at 9:34am |
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I read about that too and saw where some colleges are pulling out of the program. If our colleges are practicing censorship in the name of seeking Chinese dollars, that is typical of the world nowadays. Miami should end this relationship.
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over the hill
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Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Posted: Oct 22 2014 at 10:15am |
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Or at least these colleges should stand up and say this is an American Univerity and wil NOT kow tow to pressures from other countries on our teaching formats. If it is not to your liking then perhaps this university is not for you. IMO
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Trotwood
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Posted: Oct 22 2014 at 10:21pm |
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Good points. I actually had no clue Chinese students went through a year of remedial English, etc. at the branch campuses before coming to Oxford. That's very interesting. I will say, however, that the Confucius Program is an excellent, worthwhile program to have on campus. Because you forgot to note it goes both ways. Americans learn Chinese language through the program as well. I personally have been through a number of years of Chinese language, and I can honestly say my credentials I have now in Chinese language and culture have opened a lot of doors. A number of companies whom wish to interview me reference my Chinese language and culture skills almost immediately. And if Miami really wants to keep having a Top 25 business school, it needs to not only keep the Confucius Program, but also look into ways similar programs could be established with other nations as well. It's easy to put a couple of dots together and say, essentially, that foreigners are taking university spots away from Ohioans. There is truth to that, yes, but it is also important for the alumni base that Miami remains a selective institution and produces even better graduates in its future. Having a stellar academic reputation reflects positively on anyone holding whom has graduated from the university. So at the end of the day, it benefits the most relevant Miami U stakeholders most if the university keeps building, keeps bringing in out-of-state students, and keeps becoming more selective. Even if that may not necessarily be in the best interests of the State of Ohio. And honestly, call me crazy but I'd bet over the next 10-15 years that there will be at least one attempt for Miami University to leave the Ohio public college system ( U Michigan is the other college I'm betting will go this route too). Both schools have the highest out-of-state student populations among any public colleges, with both near 1/3 OOS and growing. And both receive minimal amounts of state funding (U Michigan gets less as a % of their overall budget than Miami). That, and I'm personally hoping Miami kicks the regionals out since 1) They are a financial drain on the university and 2) they distill the university's brand. But we'll see what happens.
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VietVet
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Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Oct 23 2014 at 6:30am |
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Trotwood, it's all about the money. Miami and every college on this program is in it for the bigger bucks. Better to recruit Chinese students who pay full tuition than to target in state students at a reduced rate. IMO, it has nothing to do with reputation or "producing better graduates in the future"......it's all about the money and wealth it can accumulate for future projects.
You mention that you have Chinese language and cultural skills. With the present climate in society of catering to the latinos, I would also suggest Spanish. May be of some benefit to you if you are interested in learning other languages. You mention Miami and maintaining a stellar reputation and top 25 school....... I can tell you, there is one major Cincinnati employer that ranks the prestige of a college as to the degree earned. Procter & Gamble considers degrees from UC, Miami and Dayton to be of less value than those from Stanford (multi), Harvard (business), Cornell (business), MIT (technical), or Michigan(engineering). Even a degree from Ohio State is not on the level of those mentioned above. The Sinclairs and Wright States of the world are bottom tier at P&G. It is in their company culture. If colleges keep becoming more selective and bringing in a higher class of people (IE-out of state paying more tuition), rather than the locals, where does that leave the locals as to school choice and the chances of landing that corporate position? Hiring on with a third or fourth tier employer with a limited future? Kind of a cavalier attitude bordering on pompous a--, isn't it? This statement also implies this...... "I'm personally hoping Miami kicks the regionals out since 1) They are a financial drain on the university and 2) they distill the university's brand. But we'll see what happens." The regionals were set up to provide the locals with a decent education without attending the main campus, with an easy commute thrown in for good measure. I disagree that they "distill the university brand". They offer the same curriculum as the main campus don't they? The only difference is the location at which the courses are taught. Don't understand how that lessens the university's image. (brand) The credits transfer from the regionals the same as the main campus, don't they? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Trotwood
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Posted: Oct 23 2014 at 10:15pm |
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Your right, VietVet, it is all about the money. Here's why regionals don't fit into that picture.
The regionals are excellent at what they do. But they provide a watered-down education. They have to educate all different types of people running at all different speeds. They don't get a relative consistency like you would have at Miami where most all students are fresh out of a high school which had to meet common education standards, and then be further distilled by meeting admission standards. Regionals also don't offer transferrable coursework beyond the sophomore level. They have their own Bachelor's degree programs. They serve an entirely different clientele. And yes, the university loses money on them every year. Don't get me wrong, that education is highly necessary. Heck, I have an associate's from Sinclair so I understand going there and doing that route. There is a need for local higher education. But who says that need has to be tied in with the state's best undergraduate residential college? If Miami really wants to reach the cream of the crop (which trust me, I've been there long enough to find out they do), its current 80+% acceptance rate has to go. The college is already getting a makeover to handle LESS students on campus. So something has to go. My guess is in-state students will get cut more and more. I'd rather not see it happen, but it's the logical solution. Right now, relatively speaking out-of-state tuition to Miami is low. If they keep it at that price and go private, that alone would drive the student quality up. That in turn could benefit the area, with more intelligent and more ambitious graduates coming in to the local job market than ever before. And it wouldn't take a ton for the regionals to serve the purpose Miami does, on a micro scale, for the students of the state of Ohio. Those students will just have to get tech degrees and live in campus housing in Middletown or go to a different college in Ohio. Or even just keep a clear articulation agreement between the regionals and Miami, so if a student would go to the regionals and maintain ____ GPA and stay on good standing they would be guaranteed admission to Miami. Just like how the business school guarantees admission if you keep above a 3.0 GPA in your core classes - no difference. And also - yeah, agreed Spanish is important. I maxed out what I could do in high school of it. Got good grades, but I had a horrible time with conjugations, so coming into Miami I placed into basic Spanish, and decided I would be better off trying something new instead. Did Chinese, and honestly it was great! Wonderful language.
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VietVet
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Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Oct 24 2014 at 6:32am |
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Observations....
Trotwood: "If they keep it at that price and go private, that alone would drive the student quality up. That in turn could benefit the area, with more intelligent and more ambitious graduates coming in to the local job market than ever before" No guarantee that the quality student would stay in this area once they have graduated. This benefit for the area may never occur. It has been publicized that there is a great percentage of the younger generation leaving Ohio for better opportunities in other states. Don't be deceived. The answer to all things is not a college education. Be careful about placing that degree on a pedestal. That is only a part of it in the working world. I've seen many so-called college educated people, placed in management roles or leading projects/people that don't have the sense to come in out of the rain. Common sense, people skills, communication skills and logic must be a part of the total picture to be effective. At times, I have found, that as one rises in educational level....IE from a bachelors to a masters to a PhD, they seem to lose some of that common sense that plays a key role in the success of their work. Colleges can pump ones head so full of theory which may or may not work in the real world, that the person loses some reality. Don't believe all that is taught in the college classroom. Sometimes, you stand and scratch your head and wonder why 2 and 2 is no longer 4 in the workplace nowadays and, as a person taking direction from these so-called "intelligent people", you do work that you know will fail from the beginning, usually because you have done the same work for the preceding boss and your new boss insists that it will be successful under his guidance. Never is and previous data is not proof enough for them. Trotwood: "If Miami really wants to reach the cream of the crop (which trust me, I've been there long enough to find out they do), its current 80+% acceptance rate has to go." As your statement relates to MUM...... MUM was advertised in the 60's to be a commuter college catering to the needs of the overall community. I found it a pleasant experience when I attended in the first and second years of operation in 1966 and 67. Beat the heck out of making that terrible drive over to Oxford every day and offered the same curriculum. To base the student acceptance on a higher level GPA to enter, is, IMO, exclusionary and classist and would limit those with less than 3.0 GPA's to a handful of lesser ranked colleges like Sinclair or Cincy State. MUM is an educational facility sitting in a blue-collar steel town. Miami U knew that when they built the place. Is it now being suggested that the clientele in Middletown and surrounding areas are no longer wanted by the very university that targeted them in the first place? MUM has been here for 4+ decades. Kinda late in the game to be changing the rules isn't it? Not so sure about the "watered down education" comment. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Stanky
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Posted: Oct 24 2014 at 7:24am |
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80% acceptance rate? That seems kind of high, considering it is supposedly a "public ivy".
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Trotwood
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Posted: Oct 24 2014 at 11:07am |
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Stanky, you got that right. I still hear people kicking that stupid title around. Anyone who's been to an Ivy league school can tell you Miami ain't no Ivy. We may have a bunch of 1950's era brick buildings (and nowadays, newer construction overshadowing the massive post-war buildout on this campus), but we ain't no ivy.
You are right. Many Miami grads do not stay around here. Many of the largest recruiting companies on campus don't even have operations in SW Ohio. But they might be more willing to start operations if they knew they could pull "great talent", as is done by Ivy league schools on the east coast or by the top tech institutes on the west coast. Even the industry players in Columbus because of OSU's talent or the concentration of architecture firms in Cincy because of UC's DAAP program are good examples. Nothing of the sort at Miami. It likes to be a lot of things to a lot of people, small liberal arts college to some, major public U to others, research U, top-tier U, accessible U, etc. I say the market will start demanding some answers to what Miami is really about.
Couldn't agree more. There's a reason welders make more than English majors - welders have necessary skills, English majors, for a large part, do not. And yes, it's true that many people lack basic common sense, street smarts, or tact - and these people lie in all functions and have all different levels of education. I've met my fair share of genius people who have little to no formal education, and I've met my fair share of idiots who have lots of education. Being in a college environment while working as a dining center manager, I've also met plenty of people that fall right where is expected as well. Plenty of people don't have what it takes to continue education, or they lack the motivation and drive to see it through. If you are studying a good field in college, it should be a challenge. You should have to work hard to get those grades. Otherwise, you shouldn't expect your degree (or technical training, etc.) to get you much of anywhere. After all, we are only worth what we are able to do...
It IS a watered-down education. I've been there, I've lived it too (except for I had the Sinclair version, and I've had an online class from Hamilton campus). There are reasons why a MUM class cannot be as rigorous as an Oxford class: 1. Different backgrounds. Again, it's an institution that has to take people from all walks of life, many of whom have been far removed from education and don't remember (or understand) the expectations. Getting these people up to speed takes time. 2. Students at MUM have lives outside the university, Oxford students generally don't. Because of this, instructors cannot as easily mandate outside work, like large group projects or the like, because they have to consider the fact that their students have a lot going on in their lives outside the classroom. These students also are more likely to have to skip classes, slow down the class, get worse grades, etc. because they have a lot of other things they have to do that aren't school. 3. Instructors are evaluated by their class averages, or in other words, the kinds of grades they give to all of their students over their class. Professors are rewarded for higher class averages. So they have to design the curriculum specifically so they give out a class average of 3.0 or whatever. And if this means watering it down by doing things like handing out an exact copy of the exam as a "study guide" a couple days before, so be it. This happened in multiple Sinclair classes, and my online class I took through a regional was held to similar standards. You're kidding yourself if you really think a regional class is equivalent to a class in Oxford, or a MU-Oxford class is equivalent to an Ivy league class.
It happens all the time. Someone has to draw the line in the sand. I personally don't believe college access should be restricted by socioeconomic status for anyone, and yes there are a lot of inherent flaws in the way financial aid distribution, affirmative action, etc. are done which restrict the ability to go to college for many. And I'll make another statement - if one really wants to learn, they should not have to work to get through college. No one should have to work 25-30 hours a week or more and be a full-time student just to make ends meet. I've been that route, my grades and ability to learn suffered, and it put me in the hospital after enough years of it. But it's starting to become necessary (and in a lot of cases, not even enough) because of horribly-rising college tuition. It stems from stuff Miami in particular is doing - the Disneyification of the college experience. Massive building sprees, funneling money into stupid endeavors like the nation's worst college football team (sorry but sports at this school are a pathetic waste of money and NEED TO BE CUT), etc. Colleges think they have to keep spending / want to keep spending to "keep up with the Joneses", which drives tuition up horribly. It all goes into the stupid notion that a college has to "feel" and "look" a certain way. Miami, for instance, has been increasing their tuition by the max % allowed by the state every year for at least a decade, and just recently Miami "earned" the title of being the most expensive public college for in-state students in the nation. And it has the title by quite a bit. That's part of the reason why I say there's not much point in hiding it, and Miami should just go private if it wants to accomplish all the crap it seems to want to accomplish. Or they can get smart, stop spending like there's no tomorrow, and try to provide a better experience for students by taking fewer of them and having more rigorous classes which teach more essential skills for the working world (especially in already excellent programs like business and pre-med). But back to MUM. Again, if you don't have the ability to keep up then you need to stay out of the classroom. It takes a lot of work to do well in classes that are worthwhile. I finished a business degree from Miami, again a top school, and for me (and most there) it was pretty easy. And this was from a Top 25 school. So I saw where it got me, good places but not quite where I wanted to be, I decided to take the plunge, drain my savings, and get a second degree in engineering. Now I'm still in Oxford in horribly hard engineering classes (at least for me). And this is coming from an engineering school that is supposedly "easy". I'd rather be at someplace even easier, but WSU, U Toledo, etc. do not offer my degree. So to put it simply, I would never have the chops for a place like MIT or even OSU's engineering programs, just because I wouldn't be able to keep up. I don't think it's classist of me to admit it. MIT and OSU engineering students will learn more than me at a faster pace. They will have an advantage, and so be it. I'm only capable of so much, and even Miami's curriculum is pushing it. In that regards, I wouldn't make the cut. So I say we need to stop looking at education in this nation as a competition or a privilege and start looking at it for what's it's supposed to be - a means to learn. Everyone has different strengths and learns at different speeds. Everyone has different abilities and skill sets. Why don't we start evaluations on what you actually learn, and peg one's ability to take a particular education program to their actual learning abilities in the field? It's not such a radical idea. If someone's a genius but can only dedicate 30 hours a week total to their education, great to hear they're a genius, but they need to take easier classes at a place like MUM so they don't slow everyone else in the program down to their speed. If maybe our government could figure out a way to enable this genius to cut other commitments (like work) so they can focus solely on their education, then the best programs possible should be open and accessible to this person. That's all I'm saying. Tying easy classes at a regional campus filled with people who lack the chops or time to devote to their education to Miami ties it to me and my education. And it's an insult, a horrible one at that, considering the work I have to do and the complexity of the stuff I have to know every day just to make the grade.
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Trotwood
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Posted: Oct 30 2014 at 9:25pm |
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Update from the DDN (Not behind the paywall):
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/students-worried-about-future-of-miamis-regional-c/nhtht/ It's starting to happen.....
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Trotwood
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Posted: Dec 06 2014 at 11:43am |
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Since I posted I was confronted not once but TWICE by people trying to get me to sign some petition to "save the Regional campuses" - the sooner they are disconnected from Miami University the better IMO. My reasons are above.
I'm half tempted to start a counter-petition for the thousands of Oxford students like myself who see no benefit at all from the regional campuses having a Miami name, and want them separated into their own university. Heck, it happened at Wright State back in the 1970's. Anyone remember what it used to be called? It used to be OSU/Miami U - Dayton campus. Let's make the Hamilton and Middletown branches their own university.
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VietVet
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Posted: Dec 07 2014 at 8:47am |
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I distinctly remember back in 1966 when Miami U-Oxford was very proud to offer the community campuses with the same curriculum as the main campus. Went to MUM myself in 66-67. Why the new snobbery coming from Oxford? Why the snobbery coming from the main campus students towards the branch campuses? Why should a main campus student care about what is happening on the branch campuses and why the elitists attitude out of Oxford? You get your education from Oxford and let the people going to the branch campuses get theirs. Why the conflict....why the "thumbing of the nose" at the branches? Sounds like an elitists problem to me. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Trotwood
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Posted: Dec 07 2014 at 4:58pm |
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^I doubt the "same curriculum" was the case then, and it certainly is not the case now.
My perspective isn't elitist, it's pragmatic. And it is one that is only fair to Oxford students who work hard and pay a lot of money for the education they receive. My reasons are above, and for your convenience I'll re-quote them here:
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VietVet
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Posted: Dec 08 2014 at 6:36am |
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I dunno Trotwood. A statement such as "I doubt the "same curriculum" was the case then, and it certainly is not the case now" and
"And it is one that is only fair to Oxford students who work hard and pay a lot of money for the education they receive" (regional campus students don't work hard?) and "Again, if you don't have the ability to keep up then you need to stay out of the classroom" (shouldn't this be the individual student who is paying the money to attend to determine this?) and "Tying easy classes at a regional campus filled with people who lack the chops or time to devote to their education to Miami ties it to me and my education. And it's an insult, a horrible one at that, considering the work I have to do and the complexity of the stuff I have to know every day just to make the grade." (A large percentage of regional campus students also work full/part time time jobs lessening the "chops and time to devote".....) Don't these comments have a tinge of elitism contained within? To me, who attended college back in the 60's and has been working now for 47 years with 8 different companies, it is interesting hearing one who is totally involved in the academic world talk about how tough it is. Having been in the college world for a few years and having been in the working world for many years, I find that the current working environment is much more difficult as the demands for performance have been ever increasing as time has gone by. The amount of work thrown on you, the expectations of that work, the unrealistic timelines of completion of work, dealing with unscrupulous management and their little games they play, almost daily changes in policies and procedures to contend with, computer people changing programs and multi-layer security controls now on data making it harder to actually enter the data........no, the working world of today makes the academic world look simple to me. The complexity of the working world environment versus the more simplified academic world is a major difference. Question for you.......when a Miami regional campus student gets their degree, what school name is on the diploma? Does the diploma single out that it came from a regional campus or does it simply read "Miami University"? I actually don't know nowadays. IF the regional campus degree reads "Miami University", then I would reason that Miami would hold the regional campus degree in the same regard as the Oxford campus. OR....does the diploma read "Miami Regional Campus", as a method to single out the difference in the educational curriculum? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Trotwood
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Posted: Dec 08 2014 at 4:44pm |
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Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the bolded point is EXACTLY what I'm trying to get across. Everyone has certain challenges in life. Part of the regional campus' purpose is to address those through remedial classes and a slower-paced curriculum. This allows virtually any high school graduate or GED holder, no matter their skill level, to get on the same page academically with those at a 4-year institution. Or even allows those who are up to speed the opportunity to handle their extra responsibilities outside the classroom while taking classes, as you mention. To make it even easier, students can choose to stay at the regional campus and finish out a bachelor's degree program in certain areas, like nursing or engineering technology, valuable programs that'll get you a lot farther career-wise than a PolySci degree at the main campus ever will. So let me be very clear that I'm not saying one is "better" than another, per se, but Miami Oxford is definitely more academically rigorous than MUM or MUH. If you want to call that elitism, fine, but it would be akin to calling the fact that I don't know how to do Organic Chemistry because I have never been in the class and learned the material elitist.
Well, I've been formally employed continuously since 14 and I have had 4 jobs (ranging from small business to a Top 10 corporation). I've had to navigate bureaucracy many a time, sometimes with success and sometimes without, to get what I wanted to get done done (apologies for the redundancy). I've also done intensive consulting/client projects for about 7-8 more companies on top of that, so I do have industry experience. So my perspective is not "purely academic", in fact it's quite far from it. As for the college on the degree, I'm not sure. Acclaro might have mentioned it over in the other thread.
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