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Tuesday, May 28, 2024 |
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Manchester Inn and Weatherwax |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Aug 07 2014 at 9:45am |
Isn't this the originally agreed to schedule? |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Also at last nights council meeting, Mr. Adkins gave an update on the Manchester Inn Deal. He stated that Mr. Grau is still working on the feasibility study that is due to be completed later this month to determine the best use for the Manchester Inn.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Gentlemen |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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a gold mine just across the bridge imo
wish that I would have bought property there years ago--the current buildings are demo material not sure water/utilities are are there yet small market there would serve so many, and keep them from crossing bridge, or heading to Trenton/Excello Kroger the future Oasis, + the Elk Creek Tavern building/corner jmo |
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Iron Man
MUSA Resident Joined: Sep 25 2013 Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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You'll be devoured by Middletown, and you're going to like it. We figure we can fit about 30 Section 8 homes between your house and your neighbors. |
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Voleye
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 09 2009 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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There is no way in hell the township will allow that to happen. The people that live out here live out here for a reason, One of those reasons is its NOT MIDDLETOWN. We have excellent schools, decent police and fire protection and levies to support them.
There are many out in the township that will "line the bridge" and never allow Middletown to annex us. |
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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What Middletown should do now is Annex the land around Weather Wax. That way if the owner does decide to put up new homes, all that tax money will come into Middletown.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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sj, I think par for the course, or another "Mulligan" for city hall, the third downtown as a matter of fact, as you know, what got downtown started was the train possibilities. Undoubtedly, Mr. Thatcher's vision was the culinary function, with hopes the whole campus might have a major presence.
Donham began the snowball with the shuffle of Cohen and the other entities downtown, and the cash that followed the train, and then on the heels of the Polar Express that never arrived, Strickland defeat, then the fall back was the C State culinary institute. Those two dreams fell by the wayside, but the momentum, initially expense, created a runaway train, initially chasing a train....that never came....and a culinary experience....that never came. I believe you are correct on the reduction from 36 to 18 holes, but suspect that's contingent on turning a profit. The location is close enough to Madison High School that it would do well as a development I assume. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Think that maybe they will keep 18 holes, and build homes either inside or around the course?
What about the Sonshine building? Was that part of the Manchester deal? acclaro's post about Mr.Thatcher's original concept rings true and makes a lot of sense imo |
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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That is so true Mide81: Whether he's right or wrong that's how it is and all the attorneys on council and former paralegals never bother to quetion what he says.Do the legal eagles turn their brains off at council meetings?
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FmrMide81
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 26 2012 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Legal, schmeagle-Les decides what is and isn't legal around here!!! The "O" in ORC stands for "Optional"!!!
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Sadly, I think Dr. Owens at Cincinnati State did miss a golden opportunity for not having the vision or fortitude to bring the culinary center to Middletown and the Manchester, that was Mr. Perry's vision. To be clear, all activities that became the downtown effort were associated with the culinary school, and it could have served as a catalyst for other opportunities and expansion at C State and downtown. Its a shame this never took off.
Like the Iraq war when no chemicals of mass destruction were found, the message at city hall became downtown revitalization, making Middletown into a historic center, or arts center. Having the epicenter of the culinary institute may have done this; without it, it all fell apart. Then the message at Donham, just like the Iraq war, was changed; in Iraq, it was about democracy and freeing people, in Middletown, it shifted from cuisine and the culinary center to downtown revitalization. It had gone so far they couldn't pull back, and what became is a shell of the true vision and plan. It is sadness and disbelief, when evaluating the Cincinnati State deal, the city's property acquisitions, and such, what led to all this was the culinary center which never came. One cannot think the city had this outcome in mind for its buck payback. This was interesting in a Journal post:
The lease on the golf carts is a year
by year lease to have funds appropriated each year by the municipality
(i.e. City Of Middletown) Gov't entites cannot take on debt obligations
greater then one year unless voted on by the public - this was not
approved by the public. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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TonyB: Just add it to the HUGE amount they are already spending to keep Doug and Judy out of jail with the HUD debacle. The longer this drags on the more it is costing the city. I suppose the city has insurance for this so Judy probably hopes this is settled before she retires because then she's on her own.
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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I'm curious to know what kind of development will take place at Weatherwax when the property was gifted to the city with the provision that it remain a "green space". Does the sale of the property negate any agreement the city made in the past? Is there potential for lawsuits against the city and the new owner if they violate those prior agreements? Would defense in court cost the city more funds it cannot afford to spend on extraneous matters?
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Ok, since the decision-making/logic/confusion has been reaching the bottom of the barrel on council, (What else is new?), I thought I'd find another source for watching council meetings that have the same outcome.
If you would like to join me in viewing this council meeting source, please follow this... 1. Dial up Google on the old computer. 2. Punch in You Tube. 3. Punch in Abbott and Costello Who's On First. 4. Enjoy your new source for viewing YOUR Middletown City Council Meeting. Disclaimer: My intent is in no way to discredit Abbott and Costello. After all, how would they know back then that they would be creating a city council duplication in the year 2014? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Come on, you guys. Let's give credit where credit is due!!!
The tens of millions of our tax dollars that they've spent downtown haven't been a total waste. They DID bring one very successful business downtown. Things are BOOMING at the UDF!!! (And it would be even more successful if it wasn't for all of the constant pilferage.) |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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As far as the Manchester is concerned, if there was a demand for 60 units either 1 or 2 bedroom, Cincinnati State would have taken advantage of the property. The fact they had no interest shows this project will be a failure. Grau expects $10 Mm in loans and tax credits? Middletown is tearing down homes courtesy of $2 Mm, .5% from Dewine, they matched $1 Mm. Tear down homes and expect a demand for 60 units? Comical.
Micro brewery? Taken out of the Greenville SC playbook. But, Dickerson Distribution takes care of beer in sothwest Ohio, no one has an interest in a micro brewery as a destination. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Sale of 2 city landmarks to save thousands
Councilwoman Anita Scott Jones said the sale of the course in Madison Twp., which the city has owned since 1972, will “stop the bleeding” of the city’s finances. She understands many area residents didn’t want the city to sell Weatherwax — she called it “a sore topic” — but it was the “best decision for the city” that is considering laying off 22 public safety employees by next year. YES MS. JONES, THERE ARE MANY "SORE TOPICS" IN THIS CITY. I REALLY LIKE MULLIGAN'S STATEMENT HERE..... Mayor Lawrence Mulligan Jr. called the decision “good” because it allows the city to “get out of the golf course business” and concentrate on its core services. IT ALLOWS US TO "GET OUT OF THE GOLF COURSE BUSINESS" AND "CONCENTRATE ON IT'S CORE SERVICES". COMICAL BUD. CORE SERVICES... LET'S SEE...LIKE STREET MAINTENANCE, SEWERS, POLICE AND FIRE PROTECTION? THEY HAVEN'T BEEN A PRIORITY FOR DECADES, WHY MENTION IT NOW. RESTATED FOR LAWRENCE HERE....."IT ALLOWS US TO GET OUT OF THE GOLF COURSE BUSINESS BUT WE CONTINUE TO HOLD DOWNTOWN PROPERTY OWNERSHIP(AND OUR GIVEAWAY PROGRAM), AS WELL AS OUR OTHER CITY OWNED PLOTS OF LAND, AS A HIGH PRIORITY". Grau said he expects the renovations to the 92-year-old hotel to be about $10 million, most of which will come from loans and tax credits, he told City Council via Skype Tuesday night. He plans to convert the hotel into catering and banquet facilities; a café and brewpub; office spaces; a large courtyard; and 60 market rate apartments, not Section 8 units. On Wednesday, Grau told the Journal-News that he’s never worked with Section 8 and that wasn’t his intent with the Manchester. He said the units are going to be one- and two-bedroom apartments. WELL THERE'S YOUR "ASSURANCE" THAT SECTION 8 WILL NOT COME TO THE MANCHESTER.........PERHAPS. Denise Hamet, the city’s economic development director, said the 60 residential units will help put “feet on the street, a common ingredient in the rebirth of urban areas.” She said renaissance of urban living is happening all across the country, and she anticipates Middletown will be “a strong player in this arena.” "FEET ON THE GROUND".....A "STRONG PLAYER IN THIS ARENA"......ISN'T THAT WHAT SHE AND OTHERS SAID ABOUT CINCY STATE, THE PAC AND THE OTHER TITANIC ENDEAVORS THEY HAVE BROUGHT TO DOWNTOWN? WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE OLD "FEET ON THE GROUND" DOWNTOWN TRAFFIC DENISE? GIVEN THE AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA NOW, WHAT WOULD BE THE ATTRACTION TO LEAVE THESE APARTMENTS THAT GRAU IS PROPOSING? WHERE WOULD THEY GO WHEN THEY LEFT THE APARTMENT EACH DAY? TO HAVE A "RENAISSANCE OF URBAN LIVING" YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A DRAW FOR THE PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE DON'T YOU? WHAT'S THE DRAW DOWNTOWN? Les Landen, the law director and acting city manager since Judy Gilleland is on medical leave, GOOD LORD, THE HITS JUST KEEP COMING.... LANDEN IN CHARGE. AND JUST WHY WEREN'T THE CITIZENS NOTIFIED OF GILLELAND'S HEALTH? AS SHE IS OUR LEADER AND WE ARE CONCERNED. BOTTOM LINE....THE CITY TAXPAYER, IN KEEPING WITH THE COMMON THEME OF THE CITY, TOOK A BATH ON BOTH PROPERTIES BUYING HIGH AND NOT SELLING, BUT LITERALLY GIVING THE MANCHESTER AWAY WHILE AGREEING TO PAY FOR MOST OF THE COST FOR THE BUYER OF WEATHERWAX, HELPING HIM TO PREPARE FOR HIS REDEVELOPMENT. CITY COUNCIL......IS THERE A LOGICAL, COMPETENT PERSON BEHIND THAT DESK? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Please add to the stellar negotiations, the following needless loss:
$80,000 for finders fee or commission, on property which was marketed and run in the papers, elsewhere, on bids. Correct on Weatherwax, giveaway on removing the diesel tanks. I understand the physician who owned the farm used for paint ball is partnering with Bowling, develop the farm and possibly use course (upscale), targeting Miami U Oxford profs. I thought for some reason, we had a Miami finance guy on council, but obviously I am mistaken (satirically stated). I want the airport for a buck when it goes up. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Spiderjohn - u might have left out the forgiven loans on the former Thatcher properties ($175,000?)
Spider Yes we have the forgiven loans and also do not forget to add on the loss of all the property taxes that the Thatcher downtown buildings were paying each year. Now that they are all non profit they will pay ZERO... And then we have the Weather Wax deal...I believe chmoore is correct on his evaluation of this deal. Yes sir the city council did a fine job of giving away our tax dollars last night. |
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chmoore1
MUSA Resident Joined: Jan 25 2012 Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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Of course, Mr. Bowling would like the diesel tanks removed. He would only need the fuel for the diesel lawn equipment to mow the course. Now, if there is no course, he doesn't need the fuel. It sounds that he finally came up with a plan, something he said about a week ago that he didn't have. Must be a quick thinker. Time to bring in the bulldozers to grade the land for streets. Just 1 chmoore.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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u might have left out the forgiven loans on the former Thatcher properties($175,000?) and the locals @ Weatherwax who will
very shortly be un-employed(probably with severance/extended bennies or "re-assigned" within city admin. The Weatherwax family must be inpressed and proud--how does "Weatherwax Estates--homes from $150,000 and up" sound? How much will this group profit from how many hundred beautiful acres? |
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Alien
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Mar 21 2009 Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Gotta be proud of the business acumen displayed by Council members last night - truly brilliant, hard fought negotiations.
Quick math tells me that after netting $95,000.00 from the Weatherwax sale and losing $374,999.00 on the Manchester (remember they did get a $1.00 for the property), they managed to only lose $279,999.00 last night. Bowling is the big winner and kinda tipped his hand on what he is planning. He now has a lot of nice golf carts to sell at one of his auctions, plus he gets the City to agree to remove the fuel tanks - he won't need them since he won't be operating it as a golf course. Pretty clever to get the City to eliminate any EPA issues before he flips the property to a developer. Way to go Council! |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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over the hill |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Background on William Grau?
http://www.cbcworldwide.com/accessible-cbcagents/NRT1179118.html He's not local. Based out of Chicago. |
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