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Sunday, May 5, 2024 |
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Goodbye Target in Middletown |
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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I see nothing wrong with the new interchanges. If anything it will help take some of the semi-truck traffic off of Ohio 122, and put if on Green tree, and the MUM & Cincy State students on Manchester. By adding these interchanges will give Middletown one last shot at re-development, like Austin Blvd. and the Green, as long as City Council doesn't screw it up
It anything it will allow people an easier way to get in and out of Middletown, rather than Ohio 122's maze of turns, just to get into downtown. Another random question, why didn't the State of Ohio designate Central Ave. as Ohio 122 instead of what it is currently? |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Rte. 122 was Grand Avenue, to Sutphin Street, to Central Avenue, and then on across the bridge. (I think this is correct...I've searched the far back pages of my memory banks trying to recall this.) |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Next, yes...Precision Strip buys steel coils from AK, further processes them (such as slitting to customer specifications) and then ships them out to their customers. Their location right across the street from a quality supplier made sense for them to open a branch here. If AK closed (and no one else took over the plant, which is likely) they would likely relocate their processing equipment to a location near another steel mill. Kokosing bought McGraw's construction operations, which included many ongoing maintenance contracts with AK, which they have maintained and tried to nurture. Previously, they were a heavy and highway contractor and operated mostly out of their main office. Again, if AK closed, they would likely hang around long enough to see if someone else took over operations of the mill. If no one did, they would likely close this branch. Your comparisons of Middletown to Dayton and Pittsburgh, etc. are apples to oranges, and not worthy of comment. Plus, I lived and worked in Pittsburgh during much of the renaissance you mention, and I assure you that steel mills played a role in it. Rather than do any more point-by-point rebuttal, let me just say that YOU make the best argument against your own premise!!! YOU point out the great location of the AK plant site and YOU say that Chinese industry is coming. What you don't seem to realize is that AK Middletown works has a World-class hot strip mill and cold mill (both of which are, or at least recently were, WORLD RECORD performers) and other excellent facilities. If somehow AK were "killed", Chinese steelmakers would snatch up the entire plant in a New York minute and run it as an open shop, paying lower wages. The result would be that all the things you seem to abhor would remain, but the economy would suffer due to the lower payroll. (And this is based on YOUR logic, not mine!!!) My advice to you??? Take a few days off for a vacation in Colorado. The two new interstate interchanges, the airport, and all of the other things you see will be much easier to envision from there!!! Have a nice trip!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Trotwood
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 22 2013 Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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I'd like to make a trip to Colorado, never been there. But I'm a college student and don't have the money to make it out there.... any chance you are willing to foot the bill? In the meantime, let's talk about the above comments. The identity comments were tied to a response from another post. And comparing Middletown to Dayton or Pittsburgh may be comparing apples and oranges, so how about we just compare Middletown to two nearby communities which are comparable in size - Kettering and Hamilton. Both are older communities (with lots of pre-WWII housing stock), one has a downtown core like Middletown, and both grew by industrial means. Hamilton with the paper mills, Fisher Body, etc. and Kettering with GM Moraine, Delphi, a DESC base, and others (notice all of the industries I just mentioned are gone). And look at where they both are now - their schools are not in academic emergency (Kettering's are actually on par with Lakota), there is lots of re-investment occurring in city limits, and people have a positive outlook about the future of both of these places. AK leaving, if it does, will not be the end of the world., and in fact may help move Middletown forward. That's all I am trying to say.... And you do have a point, if AK leaves the Chinese may just come in and buy the mill to make steel. They do have a never ending appetite for the stuff, given their growth and the fact that they have not been building the majority of their industrial buildings to have much of a lifespan beyond 10 years. But even if THAT happens, it would make for an arguably better climate in Middletown because a re-assessment of the site would still have to be done and likely AK would still be responsible for cleaning up their ground toxins before ownership could be transferred. Considering that, ownership transfer of an individual plant is improbable. Likely the Chinese would just buy a whole steel company, and if they are going to go to all of the trouble to buy one, they are going to want one with a better balance sheet. If they bought the whole company, then nothing would happen - you would still have AK. Only difference would be that it would have a new owner (like what happened when Kawasaki bought a bunch of it and became AK instead of the American Rolling Mill Company). And you would still have the same problem. The rest of the world has moved forward, and Middletown can too if they get out of the 1950's and ditch AK.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Trotwood:
Since you're talking in circles, I guess this conversation is over. You say you want to "kill" AK. If AK is "dead" (bankrupt), they have no money to remediate anything, then--according to your own logic--the Chinese come in, buy the bankrupt facility, operate it as an open shop paying lower wages, all the negative aspects you decry in a steel mill remain, the City of Middletown receives less in payroll and property taxes, and everyone is worse off. If AK is making enough profit to be able to afford to do all the remediation that YOU want, there is no reason for them to walk away from their core business and their flagship plant in the first place. You can't have it both ways. Perhaps you are taking trips without going to Colorado??? |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Trotwood:
By the way: GM Moraine was in Moraine, not Kettering. And Delphi's operations were taken over by Tenneco, similar to what I say will happen if you "kill" AK, so that supports my premise, not yours!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Trotwood:
Here's A good question for you and your liberal chums: You are in favor of a HUGE metro AIRPORT, with HUNDREDS of multi-engine jumbo jets taking off, landing, and sitting and idling every day burning DIRTY jet-A fuel... Yet you are opposed to a power plant sitting in one little corner of the same area using a SINGLE TURBINE burning clean, natural gas because you say that it pollutes!!! (Even though it will REPLACE a DIRTY COAL-fired power plant!!!) |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Trotwood
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 22 2013 Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Excellent point. The airport would, in a sense, devalue the community just as much as AK/Suncoke currently do. However, I think my point above related more to the fact that Middletown should not be afraid of AK leaving and should squeeze as much tax revenue as it can get out of it so the money can be used to better clean up the community. And the airport would be one alternative use, as would be a massive logistics/advanced manufacturing park similar to what is in SW West Chester/Fairfield (that idea would have to bank on the continued rise of e-commerce and more economic prosperity in future years), etc. But if you look at housing values near either major airport in the region, they are fairly high. The same is true in Columbus too. So that leads me to think there is not much of a negative correlation between housing prices and airport distance, although my intuition tells me differently. So good call. I will be back in a little bit to post some speculation from another Towne Mall thread that is currently active on City-Data.com.
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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From the "Save Middletown Target" group on Facebook.
This week's project is all about the City of Middletown! We need to MAKE SURE they know that we want Target to stay open and that we want them to help us make that happen! Here are allof the contact names and numbers/emails: Denise Hamet Economic Development Director deniseha@cityofmiddletown.org 513.425.7847 Matt Eisenbraun Economic Development Program Manager matte@cityofmiddletown.org 513.705.1608 Larry Mulligan Jr. Mayor, At-large larrym@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7719 Dan Picard, Vice-Mayor,Ward 4 dpicard@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7719 Dora Bronston dbronston@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7719 Joe Mulligan, At-large jmulligan@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7719 Anita Scott Jones, At-large asjones@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7719 Amy Schenck, Clerk of Council aschenk@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7719 Judy Gilliland, City Manager dept_citymanager@cityofmiddletown.org (513) 425-7836 We are also going to try to get on the agenda for a council meeting and will ask everyone to please come show their support when we get confirmation on a date!! |
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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And I say good luck with that
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Sarah, spend your time on getting the roads and infrastructure repaired.
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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hey--I hope that they stay
Sarah is a very nice lady(wife of former Council member Tom Allen) acclaro was correct in that there is too much similar retail in town cannibalizing a thinly-sliced consumer pie. The drug stores use staples(milk,bread, paper products) to draw people in on a regular basis, since pharmaceuticals aren't enough. Dollar store have national contracts with national brands. Fuel centers has petrol as their draw. They all pass on the tough areas, like freshly-cut meats, deli, produce and expansive dairy/frozen. Has made the neighborhood markets obsolete unfortunately(for me!). Kroger, WalMart and Meijer dominate with Marsh and probably Meijer the next to go. I somewhat like Meijer best---Kroger is high--would rather shop DLM if I have to pay top $$,+ DLM has more of my preferred specialty items. What Target, Wal Mart etc. don't want to mention is the off-the-chart high level of pilfering shrink that goes on in the east end(all over town ftm). A major factor in possibly leaving the local locations. Wal Mart theft is off the chart. jmo with a few facts..... |
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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I do wish them luck in trying to keep Target in Middletown, but I don't see them winning this battle, and getting anywhere with a City Council that is only obsessed with Downtown. I would not be surprised if every retail place in Middletown eventually closes up due to the type of people we attract now too this town. We will be the next Trotwood within the next ten years if the people of Middletown don't stop stealing from these Realtors, and if people keep driving to other places to shop, besides Middletown.
So I am sorry Spider it is hard to be positive about Middletown when everything is going wrong. And if more Major stores close up shop, we will more than likely be leaving this town as well. One of the main reason we moved here was the close proximity to major stores, but if they all close up, then it will not be worth the expense in Gas to live in this town if we have to drive to that Dayton or Tri-County Mall areas to do any major shopping. But I do still hold on to hope things will turn around, but it is slipping. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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had occasion this weekend to visit the towne mall and target a couple of times during "peak" afternoon business hours. the mall was empty other than senior "walkers". Mall should charge these people for their usage imo.
Target was amazingly empty. Talked with employees who mentioned lack of sales + theft. So---those public faces trying to organize and keep this location open had better put their $$ where their mouths have been going, or the end is obviously coming. sos that is crushing all small businesses and retail in the city. Obviously Target has their eye set on a marketplace location @ Austin, or in the Monroe mall/new prosed mall area. They definitely don't need to expand here imo. sad to see--I remember when all of the above + many more now gone were thriving. Still waiting on that train outta here..... |
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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I hate to say this but Middletown is getting what it deserves for allowing the cancer that is section 8 to move in to this town, and squandering all of is tax dollars on useless pet projects, instead of increase policing. And now that business and families are leaving Middletown at a record pace, soon all that will be left is Section 8 housing, heroin users, and an city council wondering where all the income tax money has disappeared too.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Spider:
"Target was amazingly empty. Talked with employees who mentioned lack of sales + theft. So---those public faces trying to organize and keep this location open had better put their $$ where their mouths have been going, or the end is obviously coming. sos that is crushing all small businesses and retail in the city. Obviously Target has their eye set on a marketplace location @ Austin, or in the Monroe mall/new prosed mall area. They definitely don't need to expand here imo" THIS SITUATION DOESN'T SURPRISE ME. WHEN CITY LEADERS MAKE A DECISION TO BRING IN UNDESIRABLES WITH ALL THE RAMIFICATIONS ONE COULD ATTACH TO THAT, COUPLED WITH THE THEFT AS A RESULT OF HEROIN BUYING IN A TOWN THAT IS SATURATED WITH WEAK MINDED USERS, WHO HAVE A CHOICE TO USE OR NOT TO USE BY THE WAY, THE AFTERMATH IS PREDICTABLE. CRIME UP-THEFT THROUGH THE ROOF, GHETTO-BUILDING THEME, DRUG INFESTED, SPENDING DOWN, LIMITED INCOME FOR MOST, CITY PRIORITIES ALL WRONG, BUSINESSES LEAVING-NONE REPLACING THEM, LEADERS DON'T CARE.....KINDA TELLS THE STORY. RESPECTABLE TRUMPS GHETTO EVERYTIME. JUST HAVE TO CONVINCE CITY LEADERS TO EMBRACE THAT CONCEPT. HOW DO WE DO THAT? UNLIKE COUNCIL AND THE CITY LEADERS, WE ALL KNOW REPUTABLE BUSINESSES WILL NOT STAY WHEN THERE IS AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF MIDDLETOWN RESIDENTS WHO HAVE NO DISPOSABLE INCOME, ARE ON DRUGS AND EXPERIENCE THEFT IN EXTREME PROPORTIONS. I CAN'T BELIEVE WAL-MART, WITH ALL THE THEFT REPORTED ON A DAILY BASIS, STILL HAS NO ONE POSTED AT THE ENTRANCES TO AT LEAST GET THE LICENSE PLATE NUMBERS OF THESE THIEVES AS THEY LOAD THE OLD BIG SCREEN INTO THE TRUCK AND DRIVE AWAY. GOTTA GET DRUG MONEY YA KNOW. IT IS, AND HAS BEEN A CLUSTER FOR DECADES. INCREDIBLE THINKING BY CITY LEADERS THROUGH THE YEARS. SADLY, INCOMPETENCY REIGNS SUPREME IN MIDDLETOWN. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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buckeye43719
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jan 15 2014 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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The Towne Mall is a joke in my opinion. No stores and no customers to boot.. I was in the so called mall about 2 weeks ago. It was at noon time on a Wednesday. I saw empty storefronts and the employees I saw had absolutely nothing to do.
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Jesus is the only way to Heaven
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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there once was a very successful grocery market in the downtown area, but it was forced to vacate
http://mail.aol.com/38380-111/aol-6/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=28611447&folder=NewMail&partId=3 |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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http://youtu.be/Hd3oqvnDKQk
Disposable income. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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This link doesn't work...at least not for me. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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loaded for me, Mike
I dunno why it won't work 4 u A pic of our store(formerly Reddy's) on Verity from the late 60s Ironically we did very well, as did Liberal's just down the same street a different and much more active "downtown" back then |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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It's because its a link to your AOL inbox..
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Doesn't work for me either. Would love to see those old pictures
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tcaud
Outsider Joined: May 17 2014 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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The demise of Middletown target comes as little surprise. In fact I'm
surprised it carried on as long as it did. Their prices were higher than
Walmart's and Big Lots' in an low income area. That's a sure recipe for
failure. K-mart had the same problem. Neither Walmart Middletown nor
Meijer nor Big Lots gets a ton of business. Most people living in
Middletown, apparently, get their groceries and other items someplace
else, with only the poor bothering with any of them.
It's good that Towne Mall is being revived but it's difficult to see how they expect to compete given their current strategy. Prem Outlets in Monroe has largely captured the market for premium goods in this area. It's become convention that young people will go to Cincinnati to have a good time... services in Middletown cater only to the older population and the poor. Of course there's the issue that most young people this day and age are relatively poor, but that's a whole 'nother discussion. It just seems to me that Target's closure was a simple reality of business. Ever since the AK strike this area has been having a rough time. In many ways its current growth is unjustified... it has neither the population nor the relative appeal to make use of the money put into it for expansion 15 years ago. Middletown and Franklin are the slums of Butler Co.... West Chester, conversely, is the pot of wealth and gold, and Hamilton is the middle. That's the shape of it. If you want Middletown to grow, the first thing to do is give people something to do. Cater to young people. Encourage people to settle in Middletown and go to work farther north and south. Live the life of a suburb and don't even worry about "attracting" business... that's not particularly feasible given the logistics. Middletown is a stop between Dayton and Cincinnati, and that is the end of it. Give its working class population something to do, and you'll notice it gradually creep back up to middle class status. But right now its youth have next to nothing. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Welcome TCLAUD
Yes, I moved back to Middletown because it was in the middle of my work area when I was in construction. |
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