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Sunday, May 19, 2024 |
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SECTION 8 |
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OVER SIGHT
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Oct 21 2012 Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Council weighs options for response to HUD
Staff Writer MIDDLETOWN — The city is not at risk of losing federal funding or being sued by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development if it proceeds with a plan to eliminate 1,008 Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers over the next five years — at least not right now, said Community Revitalization Director Doug Adkins. “You’re at no risk right this minute,” Adkins told Middletown City Council at the board’s Tuesday meeting. “Zero.” Adkins presented council members with five options for responding to a Dec. 21 letter the city received from HUD about its plan to cut Section 8 vouchers. In the letter, HUD officials told city officials that they needed to either fill Middletown’s available vouchers, transfer the city’s voucher program to the Butler Metropolitan Housing Agency or face possible legal action. Adkins told council he disagreed with characterizations of HUD’s letter as being “strongly worded.” He said he thought the letter was “diplomatically written” given each side’s differing point of view on the matter. “No fair housing or civil rights threats were made, no regulatory violations were cited,” said Adkins, a former attorney with the U.S. Labor Department. “We have been politely asked if we would like to walk away and give our program to Butler Metro… As an attorney, I’m looking for, where’s the hammer?” SEEMS LIKE TO ME THOR HAS CAME TO TOWN HEY DOUG DOES IT HURT? |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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“You’re at no risk right this minute,” Adkins told Middletown City Council at the board’s Tuesday meeting. “Zero.”
No risk RIGHT THIS MINUTE? Wow, now there's some confidence for council to make a decision. HOW ABOUT TOMORROW DOUG. ANY RISK THEN? "Adkins told council he disagreed with characterizations of HUD’s letter as being “strongly worded.” He said he thought the letter was “diplomatically written” given each side’s differing point of view on the matter." NO, DOUGIE, HERE'S WHAT THEY SAID IN THEIR LETTER..... HUD officials told city officials that they needed to either fill Middletown’s available vouchers, transfer the city’s voucher program to the Butler Metropolitan Housing Agency or face possible legal action. LOOKS LIKE THE CITY HAS THREE CHOICES AND THERE IS SOME URGENCY AS TO MAKING UP THEIR MIND IN MAKING THAT CHOICE.....EITHER FILL 'EM, TRANSFER 'EM, OR FACE LEGAL ACTION. NO AMBIGUITY THERE PAL. I'M TELLIN' YA COUNCIL, IF YOU LISTEN TO DOUG'S ADVISE AND PROCRASTINATE ON YOUR DECISION, YOU ALL MIGHT FIND YOURSELVES IN FEDERAL COURT FASTER THAN YOU CAN WHISTLE DIXIE. I KNOW YOU HAVE EGO ISSUES HAVING DONE THINGS YOUR WAY FOR SO LONG, BUT I BELIEVE THE FEDS CAN TRUMP YOUR EGOS AND THERE IS A GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT YOU WON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME AS IT MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO THE CITY AS TO FINES. YOU DUG THE SECTION 8 HOLE .... NOW, PAY THE PIPER. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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I expect this to be settled constructively, and not in a punitive manner.
Will we lose the program? Maybe Will we lose the vouchers? Doubtful but hopeful They are looking for agreeable resolution instead of confrontation. Don't expect any pound of flesh! |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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The city is not at risk of losing federal funding or being sued by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development if it proceeds with a plan to eliminate 1,008 Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers over the next five years — at least not right now, said Community Revitalization Director Doug Adkins. “You’re at no risk right this minute,” Adkins told Middletown City Council at the board’s Tuesday meeting. “Zero.” Adkins presented council members with five options for responding to a Dec. 21 letter the city received from HUD about its plan to cut Section 8 vouchers. In the letter, HUD officials told city officials that they needed to either fill Adkins told council he disagreed with characterizations of HUD’s letter as being “strongly worded.” He said he thought the letter was “diplomatically written” given each side’s differing point of view on the matter. HUD stated in 2010 that they would not reduce the number of vouchers in Then Dougie used the program transfer from CONSOC to Nelson and Assoc. for not filling the vouchers and HUD said nothing. The above article is word for word the very same statement that Dougie made in front of council six months ago…sooo why would council need a closed door meeting to hear this very same information again.? Well Dougie what are you, Ms Judy and council members going to do when HUD presents you with a long list of violations? Do you really believe that HUD after spending all this time and money will forgive and forget and let Where is all the money needed for this legal action and these attorney fees going to come from for you and your ego to fight HUD? |
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Perplexed
MUSA Citizen Joined: Apr 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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Doug's misguided and utterly wasteful actions of the past five years has already further harmed the city. Anything that HUD may do (not do) will only be icing on the cake. In other words, so many lost opportunities and poor stewardship of our federal tax dollars. Remember the famous quote of Doug when asked about financial management of the HUD Neighborhood Stabilization Program (NSP), "we can lose up to $75,000 per each housing acquisition, rehabilitation and resale project." Urban Renewal is alive and well in Middletown. In my opinion, he can take it to Mason where he lives.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Spider, I'd like to think that you are correct in your thinking. I have my doubts given the stubborn nature of the city leaders and council and their insistence on having it their way. Wouldn't surprise me that in the final chapter, the fed hammer falls on the city and the city honchos will be in denial til the end. I'd like to see the program administration go elsewhere. Would rather see the program dissappear to the level we are suppose to have. All of this could have been avoided and no reason for reduction talk if past/current city leaders had accepted no more than the correct number of vouchers for a city this size. But...... |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Bocephus
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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Could Aj have seen the writing on the wall and bail before the feds put the hammer down? |
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LMAO
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 28 2009 Location: Middletucky Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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Was thinking the same.Hope that they give them to Butler County and are dear Council can thank Dougie. |
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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Vet I think you were right in your message to council that is the warning they need to heed. I think they are in such denial and so arrogant that if penalties come down it's going to come as a shock. What are the other attorneys on council doing,sitting on their hands? Will this help Judy on down the road? Take Dougie with you.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Totally agree about poor/ misguided use of tax $$.
Still-- the current group did not bring on the majority of the section 8 situation, and IMO the program is being somewhat scapegoated for many of our other municipal ills. The "losing $75,000 per house" thing has always bothered me, so much that mr.A and I had a STRONG discussion about that at a charter review meeting session. I simply don't expect the hammer to come down in a punishing manner. The goal is to resolve the situation to the best result for everyone. Govt. is not always out to attack(well... Did I really say that?) |
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Stanky
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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Three way trades are always fun in sports. So let's agree to transfer control to BMHA who will then hire Dougie from us, HUD agrees that BMHA will be allowed to reduce from 1600 vouchers to around 800 over an agreed upon period of time, and HUD agress not to fine or prosecute city officials. Done.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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HUD agrees that BMHA will be allowed to reduce from 1600 vouchers to around 800 over an agreed upon period of time, and HUD agress not to fine or prosecute city officials. Done.
The demand in Butler County for affordable houseing is greater now than in 2010.
HUD will NEVER agree to a recuction in the Section 8 vouchers..they have never did it before and they are not going to do it for Dougie.
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Observer
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Dec 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Just a few years ago most on this forum were citing Sec. 8 as a huge problem in Middletown. They called on council to change direction. If my memory serves me correctly several council candidates in 2009 had Sec. 8 reduction as a major platform of their campaign. Now just a few years later this forum seems to sit back a laugh has HUD has begun to fight back. It seems to me council listened to the community, and many on this forum, and is trying to change course. Genuine question....why did opinions on here change so quickly?
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Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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It's the era of handouts.
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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As I understand the issue of reducing the vouchers has not been fought by landlords. The real issue has be the vilifying and criminalizing of the landlords and the participants in the program. The illegal tracking of water bills, the asking by police "is this a Sec 8 house"when they respond to a call. It's the illegal procedures being instated from Doug Adkins office. He was asked point blank at a council meeting about that and he admitted you are not allowed to do that. Some landlords have had this happen I'm told. There are violations through his office..If you want to believe what he is telling everyone you may be surprised at the out come also. IMO
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Bocephus
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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I agree with council for trying to reduce the number of section 8 vouchers and realize that most of them are not responsible for adding more vouchers over the years, but there is no way in hades that Obama and his HUD minions are going to let the city or county reduce these vouchers. At this point it is a political issue and with elections coming up there will be a politician (or two) that rides into town to save the poor and down trodden. If the vouchers required the occupant to have a job while they lived there I would bet there wouldn't be that much of a need for the vouchers.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Well, let's see Observer. You cite a 2009 date as a Section 8 reducing platform for the candidates. This is now 2013 and the council and city leaders just started talking about cutting the voucher levels in 2012/2013 didn't they? If so, that would make it three years with no talk on voucher reductions. Did they really listen to the community and this forum as you state? Why did they wait so long? Don't know about others on this forum but I've never changed my tune on Section 8 from the beginning. I didn't want it in town when it started and I stand by that thinking as of today. If it was my decision, I would still be unhappy with the correct amount of around 700 or so. He--, 30 would be too much for me. IN GENERAL AND TO STEREOTYPE....I have always said that Sec. 8 (and the drug issues) are associated with bringing a ghetto mentality/ increased crime to town, it contributes in destroying a town's reputation/image as a decent middle class city and does nothing positive in helping this city out of the mess it is in and both issues usually attract low income, handout type individuals who bring their friends from out of town to help with the crime. It is all PERCEPTION by non-residents that if there is an overabundance of this segment of society in a town, the town is considered the bottom of the barrel. That is what I believe many surrounding towns now think of us. It is sad seeing the city going from a hard-working blue collar industrial town with some dignity in the mix to one of low income, crime-ridden, lower echelon clientele creating a breeding ground for every unwanted activity most cities wouldn't tolerate nor want. If Sec. 8 had any advantages, wouldn't Mason, Springboro, West Chester, Fairfield and others done what Middletown did? Middletown officials were the only fools who bit on the excessive vouchers, right? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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So again I say thanks Doug for declaring our city 54% poverty. That certainly helps our city's image.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Vet
The reduction of Section 8 Vouchers started in 2010 when City Hall did the 96 page Section 8 Analysis and mailed it to HUD.
HUDs reply in 2010 stated that because of the amount of proverty in Middletown they would NOT reduce the vouchers |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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The city let more poor people in and then are prohibited from reducing vouchers because, lo & behold, there are too many poor in town. These voucher residents came from somewhere -- so why can't some of them move away? Amazing how many of us have to transfer for our jobs or drive long distances to them but these people getting free rent can't possibly be inconvenienced by taking their TAXPAYER funded voucher and go to nearby town.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Bill. Ya gotta love the government's logic here. THEY acknowledge that this community is poverty stricken. SO, to add to the misery, they insist on saturating the city with even more poverty. Yep, the folks running HUD are the poster children for the overall thinking of the lousy government, be it city, state or the feds. No wonder we are in such bad shape in this country. No one running the show at any level, that has a clue how to make decisions based on any common sense. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Observer
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Dec 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Vet,
I thought it started much earlier than Feb. 2013. I'll trust Vivian's date of 2010 which would be just after those running in 2009 were sworn in. I'll give this current Council credit for fighting this battle and those that have been advocating a reduction in numbers should as well. If we are going to point out the failures we need to also be able to give credit where it is due.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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AGREE OBSERVER. CREDIT GOES OUT TO THE CURRENT COUNCIL FOR TRYING TO CORRECT THE MISTAKES OF PREVIOUS COUNCILS AND CITY ADMIN. JUST SEEMS LIKE IT WAS MORE RECENT THAN 2010 THAT THEY STARTED AN ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THE VOUCHERS. MY MISTAKE. WHEN DID OLSEN LEAVE? HOW LONG HAS GILLELAND AND COMPANY BEEN IN CHARGE? WASN'T SHE AROUND WHEN THE ESCALATION OF VOUCHERS WERE HAPPENING AND IF SO, WHY DID SHE NOT ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THEM THEN? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Gentlemen Olsen, Becker,Huseman and then Gilleland were the recent city managers.
The June 2010 City of |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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HUD Response to Mr. Adkins 96 page report Page 4-5 “The housing and neighborhood conditions identified in the City’s analysis are real. Blaming the voucher program for these conditions however, is, in the words of former HUD Secretary Dr. Robert C. Weaver referring to claims about the public housing program “like blaming the doctor for the disease.” The City has several tools available to address its obsolete housing stock and concentration of poverty. A well administered housing choice voucher program in conjunction with a targeted Neighborhood Stabilization Program and Community Block Grant funding can certainly help revitalize neighborhoods and help the City meet its long term goals. The Department has many resources to assist the City in meeting its goals and is available to work with City staff to develop and design programs that are consistent with HUD rules and regulations and in the best interest of the City.” |
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