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Thursday, May 2, 2024 |
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Trip To Paducah |
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VietVet 
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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 Topic: Trip To PaducahPosted: Jul 16 2008 at 7:12am |
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A bus load of city people heading to Paducah Kentucky to view the downtown area to see if the artsy scene will fit Middletown. Guess we should give them credit for looking at successful ventures since they can't seem to put a game plan of their own together. Will Middletown's downtown area look like it belongs in "Yellow Springs" in a few years? Will the entire theme be devoted to arts or will we also have areas of "regular" shopping also? Seems to me that an "artsy theme" contrasts greatly with a blue collar town. Aren't they on opposite ends of the scale and will Middletown people support "artsy" businesses or will they have to pull their customers from out of town? The city leaders seem to be locked into this arts theme thing. Wouldn't it be wise to consider other themes such as what Lebanon offers? Even Franklin has a plan to implement and on a lesser scale, downtown Eaton.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 8:33am |
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Hey Vet you are just a Citizen here in this town, we may ask for your opinion but we really are not interested in it, sit down and shutup we know what is best for you. Someone call HUD and get some more Section 8 Vouchers then we can give them some coupons to the Artsy side of town.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 8:48am |
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arwendt
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Joined: May 17 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 588 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 9:02am |
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I was in Paducah last summer. It is really nice. It's also impressive that they took the initiative to go down there. But I could have just e-mailed these people some pics and saved them one long boring trip.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 9:05am |
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From the looks of the average income it is not the locals that are supporting the arts. At $26K per year and a population half the size of Middletown, it must be outside generated traffic that is the major support.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 10:10am |
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Great response! I like it! Yep, the big dogs need to put me in my place alright, but, you know, it's really hard seeing this once vibrant town being run by a bunch of outsiders who don't know what Middletown needs or wants. Mulligan, Armbruster and Marconi are old enough to know better. They've been around as long as I have- long enough to have seen the slide from progressive to ineptness.How can people who have lived in this town since the 40's be so different in their assessment of Middletown and have lived through the same events over the years? Becker's from Hamilton so he doesn't have a clue about the prosperous days here and is really an outsider.Schiavone is younger but should have gotten just a hint of what Middletown needs by now, but hasn't. Scott-Jones just got here from another state so she can't relate. Gilleland, Murphy, Duritsch and probably half of the management in this city are outsiders so they don't have a notion as to what we need. Giving them my opinion? They'll get it even if they don't want it because I enjoy shaking the peaches from their tree. Anything to throw a wrench into the gears of their little clubmobile.
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Middletown News
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Apr 29 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 10:29am |
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The estimated population, in 2003, was 25,565.
Half the size of Middletown.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 10:54am |
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I blieve the Paducah trip is sponsored by Mr.Gordon of the Community Foundation.
I hope the local travelers find something that may enhance our community, particularly the downtown area.
I am all for the "arty" "specialty" shop approach initiated by the private sector with any municipal support available.
"Regular shopping" means just what, Vet?
We have Kohl's,Target,WalMart,Meijer,EB and every dollar store imaginable. We have enough low end mediocrity playing to our existing local economy. Nothing wrong with something different in an under-used area of the community.
Local destinations are becoming few and far between here.
Beau Verre,Stefano's the Meadows,Java Johnny's, 56 Degrees are all wonderful local businesses run with pride.
How many do you visit and support?
Time for some of you to quit knocking everything, and put your own $$ on the line in private business adventures tailored to your own needs/skills/desires. Or if you have enough support for your thinking, run for office! Few of you honestly have any stake in any local business ventures or actual committee participation. How many of you volunteered to serve on the city boards available?
Make it happen through constructive participation. Don't walk away or quit because you don't initially get your own way or the much coveted recognition. Stick to it and refuse to go away, hiding at a convenient message board.
jmo
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 11:44am |
Stick to it and refuse to go away???
BWAAA HA HA HA HA!!!
 I am supposedly on the Finance Subcommitte and they didn't even tell me when the second meeting was!!! And NO, it was NOT published in The Journal!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 12:05pm |
Spider, my friend, I understand what you are saying, and I empathize with you...I really do.
But (There's always a "but", isn't there?) think about this:
The area IS getting several upscale specialty stores. Unfortunately for all of us, they will be located 2 miles, and one Interstate exit, south of Middletown in Monroe. Now honestly, why do you think that is? Don't worry about what I say or any other of the regular posters here say. Think about why Saks, Coach Purses, and the like decide to locate in Monroe, right off I-75, instead of anywhere in Middletow, but especially 5 miles off the Interstate? You are a businessman. Look at it objectively. Heck, call one of the upscale chains inquiring about a franchise and tell them where you want to put it. See what they have to say. If you are willing to share the reply, I'm willing to support the fancy wine joint by buying you a jug of nice grape and watercress salad. (We'll have to eat outside, though, so I can have a beer and a hamburger. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 12:13pm |
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OK Spider- here goes- I meant regular shopping to pertain to where mainstream blue-collar shoppers would go. Are you more likely to find them at a Wal-Mart or at Beau Verre? Beau Verre, Stefanos, Java Johnnys are all very nice places, but they are specialty stores and as such, charge specialty prices. Why should I pay $4.50 for a cup of coffee at Java Johnnys, when I can pay $1.40 for a cup of good tasting Mickie D's coffee? Why pay a high price for a pizza at Stefanos, when I can get a decent pizza from Marco's for less? These places you name are all quality places but many can't afford them or do not think they are getting a good deal for their money. As for putting my money into a business- not with this economy- Pacman made some comments about this in another post. Run for office? I'd love to, however, I have a full time job at Wright Patterson AFB and wouldn't be available for many of the functions. I was late for the street committee meetings that started at 4PM as it took 1/2 hour to drive from work in Dayton to the city building to attend. A regular job for me will cease in 7 years.-Participation- street committee/ letters to the editor, soundoff, ran for school board in 1994, periodically attend community meetings. Walking away/ stick to it/refuse to go away?- No, never happen- I care too much for this town and am willing to nail them every step of the way when they try to ruin it.Hiding behind this board- you know who I am. So do they. I don't need to hide.They don't intimidate me.City boards- have you participated on any boards? I have an observation for you- you seem to alternate in your stance. One time you post you are disgusted with them- the next post you support them- you did it in the Journal blog and you're doing it here. Which is it, Spider,are you a supporter of bad city government or are you in the other camp OR are you just having a bad day?
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.308
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Aug 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 1:57pm |
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I supported a local business last weekend: I wanted to go to Ron’s Pizza in Miamisburg, but the kids whined and I gave in and got a few Pizzas’ from Shaddocks. They did not like it and half of it went out with the trash Monday. Wonder if there is any good pizza in Paducah? Thnk they need any volunteers to go back and do some pizza taste testing? LOL |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 2:10pm |
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One time you post you are disgusted with them- the next post you support them- you did it in the Journal blog and you're doing it here. Which is it, Spider,are you a supporter of bad city government or are you in the other camp OR are you just having a bad day?
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Vet--
1.I am in no way a supporter of bad government.
As yourself, I want to see better government. I want to see a more citizen-friendly government. I think we have a citizen-friendly city manager who will evolve the situation into a more participatory feel.
2. I am disappointed with some boards, encouraged with others. Since I participate on quite a few, I see the +/- flow within. I recently resigned from one board position, where I was past chair for over two years with litlle to show for it(and I take responsibility for not moving said board forward).The sub-committees(of which you participated) have been the most disappointing for the exact reasons mentioned by both Mike and yourself. I have even heard Councilmembers and yes men talk about their one-sided thinking. Since these subs have produced little so far and only delayed necessary action/fixes, MAYBE the approach will change. I currently sit on two city boards(down from three) and three local committees/boards working towards programs and improvements to our city and residents.
I can have discussion with any Councilmember or School Board member in an open manner.
A key is recognizing their individual strengths and accomplishments, and playing from there.
3. I am in no specific camp. I try to get along constructively with most people, especially those with whom I disagree on issues. I guess that I could drone on constantly beating our negatives(and Council/Admin) to death, however that job is pretty well taken.
4. I am having a pretty good day, all things considered. I count my blessings. I am a lucky guy.
5.Yes--I am disgusted with a lot of things, and am my own biggest critic. I am never satisfied with anything that I do. While I was somewhat critical in my prior post, I DO appreciate your efforts and recognize just how much you care about our community.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 3:28pm |
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Spider- Thanks for the return reply. I thank you for your participation on several boards in town. You mentioned that you can talk to any council person or any board member in an open manner. I envy that. I can't seem to talk face to face with those who I consider the creators of problems and not the solution to issues. When I see them, they seem to bring out the anger in me because they are constantly being put in charge by the voters who seem to elect the very same people that they complain about and incredibly, re-elect them again! Insanity! I'm frustrated because for so many years, we have not been able to put a quality product behind that council chamber desk. The potential dynamic candidates either don't want to try and clean up the decades of ruination, don't have the time/money or the job responsibilities won't allow them to do so. I won't tell you my thoughts during the street committee meetings towards the majority of the people at the table. I'd go to jail if I did! LOL. It would have been "publicly unacceptable behavior" for all of us, had I gone through with it.
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spiderjohn
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Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 5:27pm |
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Vet--I honestly feel the same frustration, and agree with most of what you say. I have learned how to approach these people in a more relaxed, un-guarded manner. You wouldn't believe which Councilmember I talked with openly last night at a chance meeting(right after Council adjourned). They gave me a great opinion on Weed/Seed(on which I have been working with), and I greatly appreciated the advice/input.
I guess that I have spent a lifetime working with an occasional few whom I really didn't care for, and can put those feelings aside to try to accomplish something or close a feal. Just second nature to me know. Yas have to realize that MOST of these public figures are really human beings very similar to you and I. They just have a different perspective. When you can break down the barriers of self-defense, you then begin to really talk WITH someone as opposed to talking AT/TO someone.
We just have to be less aggressive and defensive towards each other. Our city representatives REALLY do want to please everyone, accomplish goals and move us forward. They must feel that we are supporting them overall, while we still have serious fundamental differences. I honestly believe that we are still suffering from the Council wars over the last 10 years.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 6:29pm |
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From the Paducahky.gov website ( http://www.ci.paducah.ky.us/paducah/pupau-task-force ):Based on the company investment and size of the workforce, the available economic incentives to locate in Paducah are Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) up to $2,000,000, … . CDBG can be used for infrastructure, building, or equipment. [Emphasis added by this writer] Does anyone think this good idea will be brought back from the "road trip" to Paducah? I doubt it. While it could be used for street rehabilitation in some of our poorest neighborhoods, how does Middletown use CDBG money? Our fearless leaders insist that it be used for “neighborhood beautification”. In Middletown, much of it goes unused, while some of it goes to local big shots to pay for improvements to their mansions in our poor S. Main street “historic” district.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 6:51pm |
.308:
If you do make a "taste-testing" trip to Paducah, be sure to stop at Peak Brothers' Barbeque on your way down or back. It's near Waverly, KY between Henderson KY and Morganfield KY, right off route 60 on the way to Paducah.
The brisket is to die for!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 5:59am |
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From today’s (Thursday, 7/17/2008) Middletown Journal:
Once again, we are hearing about the “stakeholders”, with no mention of the BAGHOLDERS [we taxpayers who seem to be stuck footing the bill for any hare-brained schemes the “stakeholders” wish to try to recoup investments that they made that did not pan out]. I am all for entrepreneurship, and if ANYONE starts an enterprise locally that provides goods or services that I need or enjoy or desire, I will support it and patronize it (often, even at a premium price rather than take money out of town). However, neither I nor the other good citizens of Middletown should be forced to subsidize failing ventures just because a few snob types think that they and their friends deserve to have them available, no matter how badly they tank! There are folks in Middletown who cannot pay for food, shelter, transportation, and medical care. These folks should NOT be forced to subsidize tea and crumpets, opera, or champagne and caviar, or anything else just so that the “stakeholders” can act like they have “class”! I hear no support or sympathy for the “stakeholders” of Club Roosevelt or Ozzy’s or Reflections or for Mr. Martin (?) who wanted to open a Blues and Supper club on a corner of 16th & _____ ( I can’t remember the cross street) a couple of years ago, and I am not saying that I support or decry any of the forgoing. The point is, who is to judge what the working poor of Middletown should subsidize for the benefit of a few? |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 7:26am |
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Read the article about the trip. Liked Lawrence P. Milligan's Jr's comment when he said,"the key was getting a plan put together". How dynamic, Lawrence. No kidding! Mike Scorti said " we need to decide on a direction to move Middletown". Let's see, that comment would have been appropriate 30 years ago when the city started the fall into the abyss. Why are we hearing statements like this, this late in the ball game? Why are we hearing the obvious from these people who are suppose to be leaders in the community? From them, it's been "we need to" and "we're working on it" and a multitude of cliches for years , but we, the people, have seen no real progress, game plan, or implementation made from city leaders and councils for years. I do give these people credit for one thing. At least, after all these years, they have finally gotten on a bus and driven somewhere- anywhere, to see how a successful town has accomplished things. Sad part about it is, it could have/should have been done 30 years ago and there are plenty of communities around here to emulate. Mason, Springboro, Fairfield, Lebanon, West Chester, Centerville, pick one. Trips to these towns, gathering ideas about economic development, downtown themes, financing, retail, and other areas of need and applying what would work for Middletown should have been done years ago. Question is- why are they just now getting on the bus? By the way,just to be picky- Ed- a Middletown steakholder is one who would hold a piece of meat in his hand to eat, I believe.
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.308
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Joined: Aug 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 9:20am |
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Mike_Presta, Thanks for the BBQ tip and sorry for the food distraction. BUT.. I to have been to Paducah and from memory the downtown was nice but dead. I remember a lot of nice looking artsy old buildings and a big Quilt Museum. So of course I can't wait to get back. NOT. It did make for a nice looking downtown but IMHO such a plan four our downtown would be at most one small part of what we need here. |
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 11:28am |
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I think a significant key is the presence of Miami University Middletown. Lots of cities across the country have dying downtowns, but very few boast a university in their city. Middletown does, and needs to take advantage of this.
My dream would be for a significant, large-scale Miami University presence, one that is perhaps connected with the arts; I don't imagine there is significant studio space on the current campus, and I would guess that some of buildings downtown would provide ideal studio space for students. Imagine classes occurring downtown, maybe affordable apartments for students with families, and retail that caters to the needs of students, staff, and faculty? As the Paducah article pointed out, they seemingly "fell into" a niche. Well, rather than replicate what another city has done, why not play to the strengths of this town? Despite a changing economy that renders Armco's of the past not feasible anymore, education is still something that the United States does better than anyone, and it's something that I think Miami does better than anyone in the area. Miami University is a strength of this town, and it owes a lot to Armco and the community, but it's also in a position to help strengthen this community's downtown too. What I have is a vague dream, but I really would like to see more happen with Miami downtown. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 1:31pm |
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Marianne- Interesting concept. What percentage of the student population would participate in the arts program, in your opinion? What percentage of the downtown area would be occupied by studios for the art students? How much fluctuation would you anticipate in the vacancies of the studios? What would be the turnover rate in students? How many students,staff and faculty would need to participate in this program to support any additional retail? I also agree that one of the strengths of this town is Miami- Middletown. Has been since 1966, when first opened. Is the arts environment interest in this town that strong? I wasn't aware if that. Seems "out of character" for a blue collar town and it's students to embrace the arts as you suggest. If true, probably more of an outside influence that interest from city people. Might be part of the solution to downtown usage.
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Marianne
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Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 4:14pm |
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Vet, 32, 23, 45, 43, 34...actually was going to give the numbers from Lost, but thought that might be lost. Ha.
In all seriousness, I have no idea how many students, faculty, etc. would be involved, and I don't think you asked that question really asking for a serious estimate. My idea was merely that. MUM has a range of faculty from many disciplines, and could probably offer some really interested majors not offered by other institutions in the area. MUM already has a downtown presence; I'm just interested in seeing them expand that and think creatively about the possibilities it offers. I *do* know that if a school has a reputation for a particularly good program, students will come to the school for that program. MUM has excellent faculty including Andrew Au, an artist who teaches there who is energetic, creative, and a fantastic teacher (http://www.au-purdum.com/andrewmain.htm). I would love to see him have studio space in downtown Middletown, offer classes, etc. Most students in my classes come from outside Middletown, which means that this blue collar town is *not* giving the school most of its enrollment. I don't have figures on where most MUM students are from, but when I ask students, "Where are you from?" I don't hear Middletown most often. I think a lot of students from Middletown wish to leave Middletown when they go to college; that makes sense to me. MUM pulls students from the surrounding communities, and I think can continue to draw students from a wide range of areas especially if they develop programs that are of particular interest to students, and these students can't find them elsewhere. As for arts and blue collar towns not going together, I don't agree with that nor do I think one precludes the other. That's like saying you can't be blue collar if you're an artist, and I know some of my friends would be insulted by that comment. Some of the best artists I have met are often from blue collar towns and consider themselves blue collar people. Regarding other communities that have built a downtown using the arts, etc., I spent a good amount of time in one, Fayetteville, NC. The best arthouse movie theatre I've ever been in (and I've been in a lot) is located there (http://www.cameoarthouse.com/). Fayetteville, NC is best known as a military town with a dying downtown, but a good community of folks are working to improve the downtown - led by the folks at Cameo, etc. It's slow, but there's progress. I saw a tremendous amount done in the three years I lived in rural North Carolina. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 5:42pm |
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Hmm…sounds like the key is getting a plan put together! Hmm…sounds like we need to decide which direction to move!
A dream! A direction! A plan! Or could we call it a “Vision”? Let’s go with the “vision” theme! A catchy name might help. How does “Crossroads 2020” sound? Do ya get it? We’re at a “crossroad” and our vision is “20/20” and maybe we can float some bonds until the year 2020! Does THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS sound like enough? Quilts, and arts and crafts and antiques and Olde Tyme stuff! Yeah…That’s it! 
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spiderjohn
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Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 11:39pm |
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good one mr.P!
kinda like deja vu all over again.
but--stick with it as long as it still works,I guess
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