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Trip To Paducah

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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 22 2008 at 7:12pm

Amazing! I thought that we already HAD a “plan” for downtown! We’ve already spent MILLIONS of our own (and our children’s and grandchildren’s) money on it.

All council has to do is read the vaunted MASTER PLAN!

Here is a brief overview of the plan for downtown copied and pasted exactly from page 9-17 of the Master Plan. Read it and weep:

“In order to create a viable, healthy downtown, the city and its partners will take further steps to revitalize the area by encouraging the preservation and renovation of historic buildings, and ensuring that new development blends with the architecture and character of the surrounding area.

Future Land Use. Mixed Use Commercial is planned along Central and Verity as shown on Map 15. Retail activity should be concentrated within this defined location. Residential uses are desired on upper floors of downtown commercial buildings. “Mixed Use Residential” is planned as a transition between Commercial Mixed Use and predominately single family residential neighborhoods located adjacent to downtown. Residential and offices uses are appropriate in existing buildings. Smaller- scale retail may be appropriate if adequate parking facilities are available and if the retail activity does not detract from the neighborhood.

Increased residential will provide customers to downtown businesses and bring life to the downtown throughout more hours of the day. Accordingly, a wide range of housing options are appropriate in the downtown including new market-rate townhomes, lofts, work-live units, and studios. Development of work-live units, lofts, and studios should be strongly considered to attract artists to downtown Middletown. This strategy could capitalize on downtown’s existing strengths characterized by Beau Verre, Middletown Arts Center, Sorg Theater Company, downtown murals, etc.

 
Capital Improvements

Canal Greenway. Restore the canal bed to create an interpretive and interactive historic attraction. Turn the restored canal into an urban greenway that connects Smith Park to the Great Miami River through downtown. Other means of providing linkages between the downtown and river need to be explored.

Utilities. Engineering analysis performed as part of this Master Plan indicates that the downtown environs have the oldest and some cases undersized water and sanitary sewer infrastructure. As mentioned in the brownfield redevelopment strategies, the city may be called upon to improve utility services in the downtown to accommodate new growth on brownfield sties.

Bike Path. A cross-town bike path is planned to connect the Renaissance Development Opportunity Area to downtown via SR 122 and Central Avenue. Though the exact path alignment is not known, a logical routing through the downtown needs to be identified and should ultimately end at the bike path located along the river.

Streetscape. Though many positive improvements have been made, continued improvement to the downtown streetscape is needed to strengthen downtown’s sense of place and attractiveness.

The same folks who made this “plan” are currently trying to make sure that Forest Hills and all other land surrounding their beloved South Main Street Historic District cannot be developed except with high-end mansions, and their re-zoning request is before the board even as I type this. They are also pushing for expensive town homes (not large enough for more than one or two kids, please) in exclusive developments in all open areas such as brownfields or “reclaimed” neighborhoods.

THAT is the “plan”, that has been the “plan” at least since 1998 (when I moved back to Middletown), and that will ALWAYS be the plan, even if it takes the very last dollar the common residents have to make it happen…or until we clean out city hall and re-populate it with people who have the entire city’s best interests at heart.

Cry
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 21 2008 at 9:10am
vet--I honestly don't know what the downtownproperty owners are thinking long-term. Harry F was a great guy, and very easy to work with. However he is long gone(rip) and his heirs are now doing their best to run the show. They are obviously having trouble finding quality renters and buyers(which is a problem all over town).  The Valen group owns a lot of Central Ave. business property also, and seems to be struggling for the same reasons, not even able to keep a legacy like the Liberty Restaurant open.
 
Not repairing these buildings missed by the downtown storefront renovations isn't helping either. We honestly have quite a few structures that should be leveled.
 
As for your story about the karate club--no one wants to rent to someone who is financially strapped and can't commit to a long-term strategy. These arrngements are more trouble than they are worth.
 
Pretty depressing sight down there, and the entire area must be included into any Paducah-type plan. It will be interesting to see how the city/partners devolps a strategy and funding options for the district.
 
All that said, the wine bistro seems to be gaining momentum. So--there is hope down there for a quality, upper crust environment. Hopefully companion destinations will pop up soon!
 
Back to yer ?---
I honestly can't figure the ownership strategy in the eatern end of Central Ave., and really don't think any plan/strategy exists. Jusst hanging on in lieu of any other viable options.
Karate school?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 20 2008 at 4:20pm
This ought to be interesting.  We will be seeing at least a .25 possibly a .50 levy on the ballot come spring, for Roadway Rehab.  Do they really expect that any type of tax increase is going to fly for this type of deal.
 
Nuclear Fuel Plant hey so what we have AK and a new Coke Plant coming to town.  We can always resurrect Middletown Regional Hospital and then we can have two hospitals also.
 
In all honesty folks if someone thinks that they can make a go of a Gallery downtown or on Central Ave. let them put up the money for it, let them get the SBA Loans and let them be on the hook for the money.  Now if the City owns some property that they want to give a rent break on for a starving artist I am fine with that.......but no public money for private enterprise like this, we have other fish to fry before we discover the next Van Gogh in Middletown.Confused
  
"Paducah does not have the financial issues that Middletown faces and was able to get a 0.5 percent income tax hike approved, going from 1.5 percent to 2 percent. In addition, Paducah is a regional center of commerce and health care for five smaller Kentucky counties. It's also home to two hospitals and a nuclear fuel plant."
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 20 2008 at 11:33am
OK-Sunday Journal story on the outcome of the big trip. Anita Scott-Jones says "Let's get started". Gilleland says " things are cyclical, it takes energy, more visits to other cities and more education for the community is needed". Lawrence P. Mulligan Jr. says "the challenge is having a plan(look out!- income tax increase) and to develop a "doable" plan(raid the wallet) to move the city forward". Well, there you have it! Comments from the influential group of Middletown's finest! I guess we should file this under the "GET READY TO SELL A TAX INCREASE TO THE PEOPLE" file. Each time a group representing Middletown goes on a trip, the Journal follows up the story with a "soft article" like this that is so generalized that it isn't worth the paper and ink to print it. This article is all fluff and has no information of worth. As to the "plan" (feel the burn/drain the wallet) that Lawrence was eluding to- gee, haven't we heard the same rhetoric from our leaders before? This is typical canned passification talk from council members and city officials and has, to date, amounted to indecision, resulting in no viable progress and an angry public. It will be interesting to see if they do develop a plan(there's that burn again) from this and shouldn't be a shock if the plan( tax you till you bleed) is pitched to the people. Perhaps this time, they will actually carry through with something that will make a difference in this town. Doubtful though. Hide your wallet and hold your breath. They were thinking 2.0 to 2.25% tax rate before they stepped off of the bus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2008 at 10:16am
Spider- teach a non business person something- Most of the stores along Central Ave. are owned by people like the Finkelman's and other real estate people in town. Most of said stores sit empty and haven't been occupied for years. When my son was young, he was in karate, as were about 20 other kids at the time. Three of us parents approached Finkelman about using one of his properties along Central Ave. for a karate club and for traffic exposure. We told him that we were just working folks with little money and maybe he could cut us a deal on our ability to pay, increasing the rent as we grew to produce more revenue. He declined and we ended up with one of his cheaper properties over on Woodlawn. We didn't last long in that location. Question: If one owns property and it hasn't been occupied in years, and you're paying taxes on that property, yet, are not collecting revenue from that property, why wouldn't you want to rent it to make better use of it? Is there an advantage in owning empty buildings as to tax breaks for business property owners in Middletown? Doesn't make sense to me to miss an opportunity to collect revenue from a business property.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2008 at 10:11am
Anyone that wants to put a gallery downtown to sell art of any kind, let them step up to the plate and put their own money into it just like any other business in town.  There should be no City Funds used for this purpose period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2008 at 8:37am
Don't b surprised if the city "leaders" start a push to organize(fund) something downtown. In our current situation, city funding should not be a serious opotion,instead leaving it to the private sector. If able individuals aren't willing to step up to the plate to initiate/complete something downtown, then probably little can be accomplished.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 18 2008 at 6:58am
You are correct. I asked these questions, not expecting them to be answered by you, but merely to suggest that they might be some of the logical questions to consider if this idea was interesting to city council and Billy Murphy. The campus has changed dramatically since I was there in 1966/67. Went into Logan Johnson Hall several months ago and was hard-pressed to remember where things were back then as opposed to now. Finkelman Library hasn't changed as much. Remember registering for classes in Verity Lodge, "up the hill" at the time. How things change! Perhaps I was too general in my statement of the blue collar town/arts environment comparison. I just envisioned a Middletown steel truck driver going to one of these arts studios on a week night learning how to do watercolor painting or pottery. And yes, I'm doing a major stereotype comparison here. Just seems like trying to mix oil and water to me. Time warp- my son will be finishing up his second year at MUM, after transfering credits from Sinclair, 42 years after I started there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 11:39pm
good one mr.P!
kinda like deja vu all over again.
but--stick with it as long as it still works,I guess
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 5:42pm

Hmm…sounds like the key is getting a plan put together!

Hmm…sounds like we need to decide which direction to move!

A dream! A direction! A plan!

Or could we call it a “Vision”?

Let’s go with the “vision” theme!

A catchy name might help.

How does “Crossroads 2020” sound?

Do ya get it? We’re at a “crossroad” and our vision is “20/20” and maybe we can float some bonds until the year 2020!

Does THIRTEEN MILLION DOLLARS sound like enough?

Quilts, and arts and crafts and antiques and Olde Tyme stuff!

Yeah…That’s it!

Ermm
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Marianne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 4:14pm
Vet, 32, 23, 45, 43, 34...actually was going to give the numbers from Lost, but thought that might be lost.  Ha.

In all seriousness, I have no idea how many students, faculty, etc. would be involved, and I don't think you asked that question really asking for a serious estimate.   My idea was merely that. 

MUM has a range of faculty from many disciplines, and could probably offer some really interested majors not offered by other institutions in the area.  MUM already has a downtown presence; I'm just interested in seeing them expand that and think creatively about the possibilities it offers.

I *do* know that if a school has a reputation for a particularly good program, students will come to the school for that program.  MUM has excellent faculty including Andrew Au, an artist who teaches there who is energetic, creative, and a fantastic teacher (http://www.au-purdum.com/andrewmain.htm). I would love to see him have studio space in downtown Middletown, offer classes, etc.

Most students in my classes come from outside Middletown, which means that this blue collar town is *not* giving the school most of its enrollment.  I don't have figures on where most MUM students are from, but when I ask students, "Where are you from?" I don't hear Middletown most often.  I think a lot of students from Middletown wish to leave Middletown when they go to college; that makes sense to me.  MUM pulls students from the surrounding communities, and I think can continue to draw students from a wide range of areas especially if they develop programs that are of particular interest to students, and these students can't find them elsewhere.

As for arts and blue collar towns not going together, I don't agree with that nor do I think one precludes the other.  That's like saying you can't be blue collar if you're an artist, and I know some of my friends would be insulted by that comment.  Some of the best artists I have met are often from blue collar towns and consider themselves blue collar people.  

Regarding other communities that have built a downtown using the arts, etc., I spent a good amount of time in one, Fayetteville, NC.  The best arthouse movie theatre I've ever been in (and I've been in a lot) is located there (http://www.cameoarthouse.com/).  Fayetteville, NC is best known as a military town with a dying downtown, but a good community of folks are working to improve the downtown - led by the folks at Cameo, etc.  It's slow, but there's progress.   I saw a tremendous amount done in the three years I lived in rural North Carolina.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 1:31pm
Marianne- Interesting concept. What percentage of the student population would participate in the arts program, in your opinion? What percentage of the downtown area would be occupied by studios for the art students? How much fluctuation would you anticipate in the vacancies of the studios? What would be the turnover rate in students? How many students,staff and faculty would need to participate in this program to support any additional retail? I also agree that one of the strengths of this town is Miami- Middletown. Has been since 1966, when first opened. Is the arts environment interest in this town that strong? I wasn't aware if that. Seems "out of character" for a blue collar town and it's students to embrace the arts as you suggest. If true, probably more of an outside influence that interest from city people. Might be part of the solution to downtown usage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 11:28am
I think a significant key is the presence of Miami University Middletown.  Lots of cities across the country have dying downtowns, but very few boast a university in their city.  Middletown does, and needs to take advantage of this.

My dream would be for a significant, large-scale Miami University presence, one that is perhaps connected with the arts; I don't imagine there is significant studio space on the current campus, and I would guess that some of buildings downtown would provide ideal studio space for students. 

Imagine classes occurring downtown, maybe affordable apartments for students with families, and retail that caters to the needs of students, staff, and faculty? 

As the Paducah article pointed out, they seemingly "fell into" a niche.  Well, rather than replicate what another city has done, why not play to the strengths of this town?  Despite a changing economy that renders Armco's of the past not feasible anymore, education is still something that the United States does better than anyone, and it's something that I think Miami does better than anyone in the area.    Miami University is a strength of this town, and it owes a lot to Armco and the community, but it's also in a position to help strengthen this community's downtown too.

What I have is a vague dream, but I really would like to see more happen with Miami downtown. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 9:20am

Mike_Presta,

Thanks for the BBQ tip and sorry for the food distraction.

BUT.. I to have been to Paducah and from memory the downtown was nice but dead. I remember a lot of nice looking artsy old buildings and a big Quilt Museum. So of course I can't wait to get back. NOT. It did make for a nice looking downtown but IMHO such a plan four our downtown would be at most one small part of what we need here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 7:26am
Read the article about the trip. Liked Lawrence P. Milligan's Jr's comment when he said,"the key was getting a plan put together". How dynamic, Lawrence. No kidding! Mike Scorti said " we need to decide on a direction to move Middletown". Let's see, that comment would have been appropriate 30 years ago when the city started the fall into the abyss. Why are we hearing statements like this, this late in the ball game? Why are we hearing the obvious from these people who are suppose to be leaders in the community? From them, it's been "we need to" and "we're working on it" and a multitude of cliches for years , but we, the people, have seen no real progress, game plan, or implementation made from city leaders and councils for years. I do give these people credit for one thing. At least, after all these years, they have finally gotten on a bus and driven somewhere- anywhere, to see how a successful town has accomplished things. Sad part about it is, it could have/should have been done 30 years ago and there are plenty of communities around here to emulate. Mason, Springboro, Fairfield, Lebanon, West Chester, Centerville, pick one. Trips to these towns, gathering ideas about economic development, downtown themes, financing, retail, and other areas of need and applying what would work for Middletown should have been done years ago. Question is- why are they just now getting on the bus? By the way,just to be picky- Ed- a Middletown steakholder is one who would hold a piece of meat in his hand to eat, I believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2008 at 5:59am

From today’s (Thursday, 7/17/2008) Middletown Journal:

PADUCAH, Ky. — "Keep pitching the vision" is one of several mantras local officials told a delegation of Middletown downtown stakeholders during the first day of an overnight trip to the quiet Ohio River town of Paducah, Ky. [Emphasis added by this writer.]

Once again, we are hearing about the “stakeholders”, with no mention of the BAGHOLDERS [we taxpayers who seem to be stuck footing the bill for any hare-brained schemes the “stakeholders” wish to try to recoup investments that they made that did not pan out].

I am all for entrepreneurship, and if ANYONE starts an enterprise locally that provides goods or services that I need or enjoy or desire, I will support it and patronize it (often, even at a premium price rather than take money out of town).

However, neither I nor the other good citizens of Middletown should be forced to subsidize failing ventures just because a few snob types think that they and their friends deserve to have them available, no matter how badly they tank!

There are folks in Middletown who cannot pay for food, shelter, transportation, and medical care. These folks should NOT be forced to subsidize tea and crumpets, opera, or champagne and caviar, or anything else just so that the “stakeholders” can act like they have “class”!

I hear no support or sympathy for the “stakeholders” of Club Roosevelt or Ozzy’s or Reflections or for Mr. Martin (?) who wanted to open a Blues and Supper club on a corner of 16th & _____ ( I can’t remember the cross street) a couple of years ago, and I am not saying that I support or decry any of the forgoing. The point is, who is to judge what the working poor of Middletown should subsidize for the benefit of a few?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by .308 .308 wrote:

I supported a local business last weekend: I wanted to go to Ron’s Pizza in Miamisburg, but the kids whined and I gave in and got a few Pizzas’ from Shaddocks. They did not like it and half of it went out with the trash Monday. Wonder if there is any good pizza in Paducah? Thnk they need any volunteers to go back and do some pizza taste testing? LOL

 .308:
If you do make a "taste-testing" trip to Paducah, be sure to stop at Peak Brothers' Barbeque on your way down or back.  It's near Waverly, KY between Henderson KY and Morganfield KY, right off route 60 on the way to Paducah.
 
The brisket is to die for!  Thumbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 6:29pm

From the Paducahky.gov website ( http://www.ci.paducah.ky.us/paducah/pupau-task-force ):

Based on the company investment and size of the workforce, the available economic incentives to locate in Paducah are Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) up to $2,000,000, … . CDBG can be used for infrastructure, building, or equipment. [Emphasis added by this writer]

Does anyone think this good idea will be brought back from the "road trip" to Paducah?  I doubt it.  While it could be used for street rehabilitation in some of our poorest neighborhoods, how does Middletown use CDBG money? Our fearless leaders insist that it be used for “neighborhood beautification”. In Middletown, much of it goes unused, while some of it goes to local big shots to pay for improvements to their mansions in our poor S. Main street “historic” district.  Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 5:27pm

Vet--I honestly feel the same frustration, and agree with most of what you say.

I have learned how to approach these people in a more relaxed, un-guarded manner. You wouldn't believe which Councilmember I talked with openly last night at a chance meeting(right after Council adjourned). They gave me a great opinion on Weed/Seed(on which I have been working with), and I greatly appreciated the advice/input.
 
I guess that I have spent a lifetime working with an occasional few whom I really didn't care for, and can put those feelings aside to try to accomplish something or close a feal. Just second nature to me know. Yas have to realize that MOST of these public figures are really human beings very similar to you and I. They just have a different perspective. When you can break down the barriers of self-defense, you then begin to really talk WITH someone as opposed to talking AT/TO someone.
 
We just have to be less aggressive and defensive towards each other. Our city representatives REALLY do want to please everyone, accomplish goals and move us forward.  They must feel that we are supporting them overall, while we still have serious fundamental differences. I honestly believe that we are still suffering from the Council wars over the last 10 years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 3:28pm
Spider- Thanks for the return reply. I thank you for your participation on several boards in town. You mentioned that you can talk to any council person or any board member in an open manner. I envy that. I can't seem to talk face to face with those who I consider the creators of problems and not the solution to issues. When I see them, they seem to bring out the anger in me because they are constantly being put in charge by the voters who seem to elect the very same people that they complain about and incredibly, re-elect them again! Insanity! I'm frustrated because for so many years, we have not been able to put a quality product behind that council chamber desk. The potential dynamic candidates either don't want to try and clean up the decades of ruination, don't have the time/money or the job responsibilities won't allow them to do so. I won't tell you my thoughts during the street committee meetings towards the majority of the people at the table. I'd go to jail if I did! LOL. It would have been "publicly unacceptable behavior" for all of us, had I gone through with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 2:10pm
One time you post you are disgusted with them- the next post you support them- you did it in the Journal blog and you're doing it here. Which is it, Spider,are you a supporter of bad city government or are you in the other camp OR are you just having a bad day?
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Vet--
1.I am in no way a supporter of bad government.
As yourself, I want to see better government. I want to see a more citizen-friendly government. I think we have a citizen-friendly city manager who will evolve the situation into a more participatory feel.
 
2. I am disappointed with some boards, encouraged with others. Since I participate on quite a few, I see the +/- flow within. I recently resigned from one board position, where I was past chair for over two years with litlle to show for it(and I take responsibility for not moving said board forward).The sub-committees(of which you participated) have been the most disappointing for the exact reasons mentioned by both Mike and yourself. I have even heard Councilmembers and yes men talk about their one-sided thinking. Since these subs have produced little so far and only delayed necessary action/fixes, MAYBE the approach will change.  I currently sit on two city boards(down from three) and three local committees/boards working towards programs and improvements to our city and residents.
I can have discussion with any Councilmember or School Board member in an open manner.
A key is recognizing their individual strengths and accomplishments, and playing from there.
 
3. I am in no specific camp. I try to get along constructively with most people, especially those with whom I disagree on issues. I guess that I could drone on constantly beating our negatives(and Council/Admin) to death, however that job is pretty well taken. 
 
4. I am having a pretty good day, all things considered. I count my blessings. I am a lucky guy.
 
5.Yes--I am disgusted with a lot of things, and am my own biggest critic. I am never satisfied with anything that I do. While I was somewhat critical in my prior post, I DO appreciate your efforts and recognize just how much you care about our community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 1:57pm

I supported a local business last weekend: I wanted to go to Ron’s Pizza in Miamisburg, but the kids whined and I gave in and got a few Pizzas’ from Shaddocks. They did not like it and half of it went out with the trash Monday. Wonder if there is any good pizza in Paducah? Thnk they need any volunteers to go back and do some pizza taste testing? LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 12:13pm
OK Spider- here goes- I meant regular shopping to pertain to where mainstream blue-collar shoppers would go. Are you more likely to find them at a Wal-Mart or at Beau Verre? Beau Verre, Stefanos, Java Johnnys are all very nice places, but they are specialty stores and as such, charge specialty prices. Why should I pay $4.50 for a cup of coffee at Java Johnnys, when I can pay $1.40 for a cup of good tasting Mickie D's coffee? Why pay a high price for a pizza at Stefanos, when I can get a decent pizza from Marco's for less? These places you name are all quality places but many can't afford them or do not think they are getting a good deal for their money. As for putting my money into a business- not with this economy- Pacman made some comments about this in another post. Run for office? I'd love to, however, I have a full time job at Wright Patterson AFB and wouldn't be available for many of the functions. I was late for the street committee meetings that started at 4PM as it took 1/2 hour to drive from work in Dayton to the city building to attend. A regular job for me will cease in 7 years.-Participation- street committee/ letters to the editor, soundoff, ran for school board in 1994, periodically attend community meetings. Walking away/ stick to it/refuse to go away?- No, never happen- I care too much for this town and am willing to nail them every step of the way when they try to ruin it.Hiding behind this board- you know who I am. So do they. I don't need to hide.They don't intimidate me.City boards- have you participated on any boards? I have an observation for you- you seem to alternate in your stance. One time you post you are disgusted with them- the next post you support them- you did it in the Journal blog and you're doing it here. Which is it, Spider,are you a supporter of bad city government or are you in the other camp OR are you just having a bad day?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

I am all for the "arty" "specialty" shop approach initiated by the private sector with any municipal support available.
"Regular shopping" means just what, Vet?
 We have Kohl's,Target,WalMart,Meijer,EB and every dollar store imaginable. We have enough low end mediocrity playing to our existing local economy. Nothing wrong with something different in an under-used area of the community.
 
Time for some of you to quit knocking everything, and put your own $$ on the line in private business adventures tailored to your own needs/skills/desires.
 
Spider, my friend, I understand what you are saying, and I empathize with you...I really do.
But (There's always a "but", isn't there?) think about this:
 
The area IS getting several upscale specialty stores.  Unfortunately for all of us, they will be located 2 miles, and one Interstate exit, south of Middletown in Monroe.  Now honestly, why do you think that is?  Don't worry about what I say or any other of the regular posters here say.  Think about why Saks, Coach Purses, and the like decide to locate in Monroe, right off I-75, instead of anywhere in Middletow, but especially 5 miles off the Interstate?  You are a businessman.  Look at it objectively.  Heck, call one of the upscale chains inquiring about a franchise and tell them where you want to put it.  See what they have to say.  If you are willing to share the reply, I'm willing to support the fancy wine joint by buying you a jug of nice grape and watercress salad.  (We'll have to eat outside, though, so I can have a beer and a hamburger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2008 at 11:44am
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

Don't walk away or quit because you don't initially get your own way or the much coveted recognition. Stick to it and refuse to go away, hiding at a convenient message board.
 
jmo
 
Stick to it and refuse to go away???
 
BWAAA HA HA HA HA!!!LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
I am supposedly on the Finance Subcommitte and they didn't even tell me when the second meeting was!!!  And NO, it was NOT published in The Journal!
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