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MMF and the "opera" house |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 14 2011 at 8:37pm |
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Excerpt from an article in the Middletown Journal:
I guess that we can kiss our $75K good-bye. Next will be a long-term bond for a few million (to "restore this gem of our city") that our children will have to pay off. Yet, City Hall tells us that we are broke and that we cannot afford public safety or adequate infrastructure.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Butler County Metro Parks is holding a vote to select the "official bird" of the Metro Park system. Perhaps Middletown should hold a similar contest to select an "official bird" of City Hall.
I nominate the COOKOO bird!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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How about the pigeon as the official Middletown bird. Pigeons seem to crap all over things, making messes wherever they go, and seem to go about their daily lives oblivious to their surroundings. Kinda like the people making the decisions for this town. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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“Right now the sort of epicenter of our concentration is the corner of Central Avenue and Broad Street,” said Marty Kohler, city planning director. “Everything that is within blocks of that is the area of focus to try and get the energy and momentum going downtown.”
FUNNY. I CAN REMEMBER A TIME NOT TOO LONG AGO, WHEN ALL THE EMPHASIS FOR DEVELOPMENT WAS OUT BY THE FREEWAY. CONCENTRATION ON THE DOWNTOWN AREA FULL TIME AND LEAVING THE I-75 RAMP AREAS IN THE CONDITION THEY ARE IN NOW SEEMS MIS-FOCUSED. DO THEY REALLY THINK THE BEST AREA FOR FOCUS IS THE DOWNTOWN? HAVE THEY BEEN DOWN AROUND RT. 129 IN WEST CHESTER? WEST CHESTER HAS DETERMINED THAT THE TYLERSVILLE RD. AND 129 INTERCHANGE AROUND THE FREEWAY IS THE BEST PLACE FOR DEVELOPMENT WHILE MIDDLETOWN LEADERS ARE FOCUSED ON AN AREA THAT IS DIFFICULT TO GET TO AND IS AT LEAST 5 MILES FROM THE FREEWAY. DON'T THINK THEY KNOW MORE THAN THE WEST CHESTER PEOPLE. JUST LOOK AT THEIR I-75 DEVELOPMENT AND LOOK AT MIDDLETOWN'S. DOES KOHLER AND COMPANY HAVE A CLUE AS TO THE RIGHT THING TO DO? MERCY! AND EXACTLY WHAT IS HAMET DOING TO EARN HER PAYCHECK ANYWAY? HAS SHE PRODUCED ANY RESULTS OR DOES SHE JUST SHOW UP AT THE OFFICE EACH DAY? A presentation given to members by Kohler, Taylor and Director of Economic Development Denise Hamet, identified the government center downtown as a strength. Downtown’s educational culture — complimented by a long-planned forthcoming Cincinnati State Technical and Community College branch campus to open next fall — along with an arts and recreation scene, are growing, they said THE GOVERNMENT CENTER (CITY BUILDING I ASSUME, COMPRISED OF PEOPLE WHO LEAVE THE CITY AT QUITTING TIME...THEY WON'T IMPACT THE DOWNTOWN), A COLLEGE THAT IS NOT HERE AS YET AND MAY NOT BE LONG-TERM, THE ARTS WHICH IS ACTIVE, WHAT, ONE DAY A MONTH AND WHAT RECREATIONAL SCENE, THE BROAD ST. BASH? THAT'S IT? KINDA EMBELLISHING WHAT IT REALLY IS, AREN'T THEY? TALK ABOUT PUMPING SUNSHINE UP THE KEESTER. Downtown’s historical elements — namely its architecture — can be marketed NOT REALLY. WON'T BE ABLE TO "MARKET IT" AS FAST AS YOU LIKE TO TEAR THINGS DOWN. BUILDINGS IN BAD SHAPE WITH NO PRIVATE TAKERS ON REHABBING....JUST TAXPAYER MONEY GIVEN TO SPECIAL INTEREST MMF TO BUY MORE WHITE ELEPHANTS ON THE CITY'S BEHALF, THAT MAY SIT FOREVER. “Up until recently our zoning laws prohibited residential (areas) downtown,” Kohler said. “There was not a recognition that was a healthy part of a downtown. When we have opportunities for multi-story buildings that could be converted to upper-floor (residences), those are great things to bring into your business district. “It’s to give a sense there are people here 24 hours a day,” he continued. “There’s nothing that helps dispel the desolation of a downtown than to have people actually living downtown.” EXACTLY HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU INTEND TO ATTRACT TO THE DOWNTOWN AREA TO LIVE? WHAT WOULD THEY DO DOWN THERE? WHERE WOULD THEY EAT? THERE AIN'T NOTHING DOWN THERE NOW TO MAKE IT A DESTINATION FOR ANYONE.....EXCEPT THE LIBRARY. IT AIN'T EXACTLY A BEEHIVE OF ACTIVITY TO MAKE IT INTERESTING FOR ATTRACTION. “(Downtown) just can not be (viewed) with the same microscope you use to look at the rest of the community,” Taylor said. “It will have an economic impact, but it will have its own style of economic impact.” HOW LONG AND THROUGH HOW MANY ADMINISTRATIONS WITH THEIR IDEAS HAVE WE BEEN HEARING THIS KIND OF CRAP? THE 70'S WITH THE CITY CENTRE MALL AND THE PIPE DREAMS OF PAST COUNCIL'S? TAYLOR IS BUT A LONG LIST OF PEOPLE WITH THESE VISIONS OF GRANDEUR. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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middletownscouter
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 11 2010 Location: Sunset Park Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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I say, I say, here's my vote: |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Does anyone else think(after reading this article today) that every morning we are re-living the movie Groundhog Day?
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ground swat
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 31 2011 Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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I wish, then maybe the election would be different! Had the chance, Oh well.
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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There goes Vivian again, opening her mouth and removing all doubt.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Who's the conductor on the train bankrupting Middletown to show Forbes how wrong they were? Consultant paid to tell city they need condos and can't sustain a revenue neutral posture? Springboro, Monroe, and Mason sem to do just fine in a revenue neutral climate.
Hey sj, as you were/ are on the planning Master Committee, what's all this nonsense from Marty K about upscale condos and adding to market capacity downtown for housing, when he said all through the Planning Master Plan, Middletown's > problem was it had an abundance of excessive market capacity in housing? Good lord, is the vision to make downtown Lebanon, all those C State students living downtown, riding bikes, filling up at UDF, and nirvana enters Middletown! Right...GroundHog Day, mall with roof, mall w/o roof, Lake Middletown, transformative vision, fake lights lining Main Street. Now entering 4th Generation of same picture, different actors. MMF with their new team, is unleashing its power and stature. No holding back, he dream has arrived. Maybe cleanup the Sorg Theater and show every Saturday night, GroundHog Day. Sorti and others have those sharp pens all writing to get the fed grants. Stuck in mud. But they think they are in auto pilot mode. McNeil said in 07 by this year, he'd bring another 1,000 jobs to Middletown. Why are the talk about tough year ahead for Middletown, did they not get his memo? MMF mandate: 2.25% tax |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Sheesh!!! Here we go again. It’s the same old story. It’s stuff no sane businessperson would invest in, so let’s use the taxpayers’ money. What about return on investment (ROI)??? Can anyone tell us what the ROI has been on our “investment” in PAC has been so far??? They’ve been open for what…three quarters now??? How many tax dollars has our city treasury seen from that “investment”??? When we made these same arguments prior to the PAC “investment”, I recall Kelly Cowan stating “This time it will be different…this time we have PAC!” Now we are hearing “This time it will be different…this time we have Cincinnati State!” I’m sure that next Tuesday we will be hearing “This time it will be different…this time we have the Sorg Opera House!” Does anyone really think that our “investment” in the Sorg Opera House will end with the $75,000 we will be spending Tuesday??? Of course not!!! We keep hearing we are going bankrupt…we need higher taxes…we must cut fire and police…we cannot afford to maintain our roads and streets and sewers. Yet soon after we buy “The Sorg”, we will be hearing that MILLIONS are needed for the “restoration”. Does anyone really think that we are going to buy “the Sorg” and just let it sit there??? Heck NO!!! Does anyone think that any of the proponents are going to put up their OWN money to restore it??? Absolutely NOT!!! Are you dreaming??? If the MILLIONS necessary was available in private money to restore it, they certainly would not let the $59K purchase price stand in their way and insist on the City to buy it withtaxpayers' money, would they??? We MUST stop spending taxpayers’ money that we do not have without concrete justification of a RETURN ON INVESTMENT!!! Forget the “Master Plan”!!! The “Master Plan” calls for Middletown to return to a “quaint village of about 22,000”. If that is what City Hall wants, there are a lot cheaper ways to get there. We must stop risking MILLIONS on a wing and a prayer. Heck, send me to Las Vegas with a hundred grand…the odds are much, MUCH better than these hare-brained, risky, failed schemes that we keep trying over and over!!! And if a business says that they won’t come to Middletown unless our downtown has a certain “look”, then tell them that we’ll let them make it look however they want it to look…as long as THEY pay for it!!! I’m becoming convinced there should be at least one more Section 8 rental in this town. Does anyone know how much rent HUD will pay for a five bedroom, three bath single family house on Pennswood Drive??? |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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While I'm on my soapbox, can anyone tell me exactly what is so "historic" about "historic" downtown Middletown, exactly???
Anyone???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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A president was assassinated at the Sorg Theater! No, that was the Ford’s Theater in Washington D. C.
A president was assassinated in Donham Plaza! No, that was Dealey Plaza In Dallas.
U. S. Grant was born here! No, but many federal grants seem to die here (to the eulogy “It’s not tax money, it’s federal money, and the only way we can use it is to waste it like this”).
On September 11, 1814, the Battle of Lake Middletown ended the final British invasion of the northern States during the War of 1812! No, that was the Battle of Lake Champlain. (But we lost the “Battle of Lake Middletown”, also due to incompetence at city hall. It was supposed to save downtown, but ended up just costing us a big wad of dough.)
Anyone else care to take a shot??? |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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“Up until recently our zoning laws prohibited residential (areas) downtown,” Kohler said. “There was not a recognition that was a healthy part of a downtown. When we have opportunities for multi-story buildings that could be converted to upper-floor (residences), those are great things to bring into your business district.” Gee, Kohler, that sounds EXACTLY like what the Middletown Area Senior Citizens wanted to do with the Swallen’s building, and they were willing to pay the City a couple of hundred thousand dollars for it!!! They proposed activities on the first floor and converting the upper floor to residences!!!! But YOU shot them down and instead demolished a structurally sound, perfectly serviceable building!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Sorry, but my sarcasm simply cannot resist. Mart Kohler discusses with the paid consultant, that a downtown area cannot be "revenue neutral", that is, not providing ancillary net positive revenue through destination, dolars spent shopping, dining, et al. But, and I could use any number of financial artios Larry Mulligan would know well, but we'll use the basic, as Mike Presta referenced, ROI. PAC is been a net loss in ROI, and will not be break even for years. Cincinnati State? Net loss, they haven't even defined a class yet what they are offering. BV and the 0% interest the city provided for 3 employees? Net loss for city. What pull-through has BV provided? They may sell stained glass to the Muslim mosque in West Chester and have a global clientele but it is not pushed nor provided pull-through for business. Hence, with the $ Mm in expenditures in downtown, there is not been a positive net return, and there won't for many, many years. Look at the golf course, ROI, net loss, The airport- net loss.
There has only been one net positive in ROI the city provides and invested to date. The monthly water collection bill with sewage. So, we have a city planning manager defining the benefit, indeed, critical nature of a revenue + downtown, while every conceivable investment the city has made for decades and going into the future for at least 10 years, is revenue producing negative downtown. Is he setting the stage for Verdin's plan for the renovation of the Mancheser Inn, the hybrid model from Dallas? Can I get an invite for that boondoggle trip Ms. G and MMF CIC? Mr. K, if you were in strat planning in my firm, your analysis would lead to a very abrupt termination. Correlate ROI with gaining a + revenue generating city....its a net loss, anyway one slices it. Add the bars into the calculus and the Gold Shops, and it would still be a - revenue producing downtown. That's what Middletown thrives; waste, incoherent decisions, and plans that contradict goals within their own Master Plan. Yet, they still think they are the smartest people in the room. Looking forward the Cincinnati State being added to the Mall, Lake Michigan, others, as pivotal errors made. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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ROI......
I know Tony Marconi submitted plans to make a downtown building into residential and his plan was rejected by the City and Mr. Kohler. We have residents in the US Hotel however the City doesn't want THOSE people in THEIR downtown. |
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Stanky
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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...that's precisely what I was going to say. That is the next dream for the downtown crowd -- throw some more money at Verdin to renovate the Manchester into condos. |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Sorg Opera House would make a great home to the Middletown Historical Society. I want to go to Dallas with the others to see the hybrid Mr. Verdin will be bringing to the Manchester. Doormen, dry cleaning, can't wait. Just like living in New on the Avenue of the Americas.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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And all it will take is ten or twenty millions of taxpayers' dollars for Verdin and his kin (in the case of the historic Manchester Inn) and a few "friends of MMF" (in the case of the historic Sorg Opera House)--all in NO-BID contracts of course--and you won't be able to tell Governor's Square in Middletown from Times Square in NYC!!! (Except, of course, that there won't be any traffic, or people, or signs of economic activity...but hey, that's just negative thinking. Close your eyes, click your heels, and use your imagination...it'll be exactly the same!!!) It'll be great!!!
And as for the new businesses, why, if we build it...they will come!!! Everybody knows that. It's always worked in the past.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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pigeon pi·geon [píjjən] (plural pi·geons)
n gullible person: somebody who is easily swindled or deceived (informal) Vet: Yep, that definition sure seems to fit Middletown's City Hall. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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City gives money to group poised to buy Sorg Theater
By Andy Sedlak, Staff Writer Updated MIDDLETOWN — Middletown Moving Forward Inc.’s request of $75,000 from the city was granted by council members Tuesday night, and the organization’s chairman says the funds will likely be leveraged as collateral as part of a project to purchase the Sorg Theater. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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“We do have a project in mind and it’s subject to funding,” he said, referring to the Main Street landmark. “We’re hopeful (that) $75,000 could be used not for the project, but as collateral for us to go out and get a loan. We would pay for the purchase of this project ourselves.”- Ken Cohen
Ok, if the $75,000 of PUBLIC TAXPAYER MONEY is being used to lend to MMF to secure a loan for them to purchase the Sorg (and other buildings I guess), the MMF should be made to pay back that money loan from the TAXPAYERS. LIKE ANY BANK LOAN, IT IS TO BE PAID BACK. THESE PEOPLE ARE RICH ENOUGH TO PUT UP THEIR OWN FRIKKIN' COLLATERAL FOR THAT LOAN. LET 'EM PUT IT AGAINST THEIR HOUSES. MULLIGAN AND COHEN HAVE ENOUGH EQUITY IN THEIR HOUSES TO DO THIS. WHAT HAPPENS IF THIS VENTURE PRODUCES A PROFIT? DOES THE TAXPAYER SHARE IN THE PROFIT SINCE THE TAXPAYER PUT MONEY TOWARD THE SECURING OF THE LOAN? IT IS NOT CORRECT TO LITERALLY GIVE TAXPAYER MONEY TO A PRIVATE VENTURE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE PRIVATE VENTURE IS RICH ENOUGH TO SECURE THEIR OWN LOAN AND PURCHASE, AND THEN HAVE THE PRIVATE VENTURE GAIN PROFITS FROM THAT VENTURE LEAVING THE PUBLIC TAXPAYER OUT OF THE EQUATION. THE CITY IS LOANING MONEY TO A PRIVATE ENTITY AND NOT GAINING ANYTHING FROM THE LOAN. THIS IS A ONE WAY STREET AS TO WHO BENEFITS. SINCE MULLIGAN IS ON THE MMF BOARD, HE PRODUCED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BY VOTING ON THIS. HE SHOULD NOT HAVE PARTICIPATED. YOU CAN'T REPRESENT THE PEOPLE AND THE MMF IN THIS SITUATION. ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSE TO BE REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE HAVE INSTEAD, THROWN THEM UNDER THE BUS IN FAVOR OF THEIR LITTLE BUDDIES IN THE MMF. AGAIN, SHAME ON YOU COHEN. YOU ONCE LIVED HERE, WENT TO SCHOOL HERE AND PLAYED BALL HERE. NOW, YOU'RE HELPING TO TAKE THE TOWN DOWN THE TOILET. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Amen, Vet!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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rngrmed
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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Judy G has already mentioned the need for a Safety levy on the next ballot and we know the Public Health Nurse wants to put her levy back on the ballot (why is this different than Obama Care that everyone seems opposed to?). Why wasn't this money designated to public safety when they were doing the budget??
Where are the Firefighters and Police officers at Council meetings now when they see money is just being given away like this? I bet they will be there to tell everyone their safety is at risk and press for the passage of the levy.
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