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Saturday, November 23, 2024 |
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Is It time For A Recall? |
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randy 
MUSA Official 
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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 Topic: Is It time For A Recall?Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:12pm |
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Ok, I have mentioned this in the past, but after last nights meeting I think it is time we move forward. Who would you like to see recalled and removed from council and why do you feel that way?
I am in favor of Picard being being removed, and is really is nothing personal. But logic says that we cant remove Allen because he was appointed, no reason to remove the mayor, Becker or Scott-Jones as they are up for reelection next year, I am happy with AJ and Josh as they seem to be tying to move the city in the right direction. so that only leaves Mr. Picard.
I just want to know who would be willing to step up and take part, knock on doors and do what needs to be done. This is not a person job it will take many to make this happen. Also who would replace him?? Any volunteers?
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:47pm |
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Not so sure that Allen can't be recalled. Suggested before about calling Betty McGary down at the Butler County Board of Elections for details on recall and to obtain the proper forms, getting a list of registered voters in Middletown and setting up a network in all sections of the city to take the forms for registered voter signatures. We need a central coordinator to align this network. Need a central coordinator volunteer, need many in each section of the city to coordinate signature acquisition, need a person to run to Hamilton to tell McGary what we are attempting to do and get the proper paperwork and instructions.
Obviously, I'd like to see Becker, Allen, Picard and Mulligan gone for the overall good of the city and to attempt to turn control over to the people who wish to guide the city in the correct direction. As a secondary issue, I would like to see the city manager, the Planning and Econ. Dev. Director and Law Director fired by the new council if step "A" should happen. It will do no good to just replace the council if we are not planning to eliminate the people responsible for feeding council hand-selected bits of information with which to make a decision. The best people on council can only conduct the city's business properly if they are given truthful information. If the current game is run on them, they will be no more effective than the current bunch. JMO |
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randy
MUSA Official
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:53pm |
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I have placed the call the BOE and we need voters from the ward the council memeber is from and if it is an at large member than it would be voters from the entire city. The only way to get rid of city staff is to have a council that will step up and do it. As for the Allen thing I will call back and find that info as well.
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:06pm |
705.92 Procedure for removal of elective officer by recall.Any elective officer of a municipal corporation may be removed from office by the qualified voters of such municipal corporation. The procedure to effect such removal shall be: (A) A petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to at least fifteen per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election, and demanding the election of a successor to the person sought to be removed, shall be filed with the board of elections. Such petition shall contain a general statement in not more than two hundred words of the grounds upon which the removal of such person is sought. The form, sufficiency, and regularity of any such petition shall be determined as provided in the general election laws. (B) If the petition is sufficient, and if the person whose removal is sought does not resign within five days after the sufficiency of the petition has been determined, the legislative authority shall thereupon order and fix a day for holding an election to determine the question of the removal of the elective officer, and for the selection of a successor to each officer named in said petition. Such election shall be held not less than thirty nor more than forty days from the time of the finding of the sufficiency of such petition. The election authorities shall publish notice and make all arrangements for holding such election, which shall be conducted and the result thereof returned and declared in all respects as are the results of regular municipal elections. (C) The nomination of candidates to succeed each officer sought to be removed shall be made, without the intervention of a primary election, by filing with the election authorities, at least twenty days prior to such special election, a petition proposing a person for each such office, signed by electors equal in number to ten per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election for the head of the ticket. (D) The ballots at such recall election shall, with respect to each person whose removal is sought, submit the question: “Shall (name of person) be removed from the office of (name of office) by recall?” Immediately following each such question, there shall be printed on the ballots, the two propositions in the order set forth: “For the recall of (name of person).” “Against the recall of (name of person).” Immediately to the left of the proposition shall be placed a square in which the electors may vote for either of such propositions. Under each of such questions shall be placed the names of candidates to fill the vacancy. The name of the officer whose removal is sought shall not appear on the ballot as a candidate to succeed the officer’s self. In any such election, if a majority of the votes cast on the question of removal are affirmative, the person whose removal is sought shall be removed from office upon the announcement of the official canvass of that election, and the candidate receiving the plurality of the votes cast for candidates for that office shall be declared elected. The successor of any person so removed shall hold office during the unexpired term of the successor’s predecessor. The question of the removal of any officer shall not be submitted to the electors until such officer has served for at least one year of the term during which he is sought to be recalled. The method of removal provided in this section, is in addition to such other methods as are provided by law. If, at any such recall election, the incumbent whose removal is sought is not recalled, the incumbent shall be repaid the incumbent’s actual and legitimate expenses for such election from the treasury of the municipal corporation, but such sum shall not exceed fifty per cent of the sum that the incumbent is by law permitted to expend as a candidate at any regular municipal election. Effective Date: 08-22-1995 |
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:18pm |
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Throw in a referendum to have the outsiders sit on Boards and Commissions while the signatures are being gathered for a recall.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:23pm |
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I think Pacman worked this out to be around 1500 registered voter signatures for the recall. Do you all think we can get that amount from over 8000 registered voters? While we're at it, to save time, be as efficient as we can and to do a thorough job of it, might as well include the school board recalls as well as a petition for returning the misappropiated money from the street fund to the general fund from the 80's and returning that money back to the street fund. Do it all in one pass through town.
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randy
MUSA Official
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:29pm |
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It has been the required 1 year mark yet but it is close and by the time we got everything together it would be
* The question of the removal of any officer shall not be submitted to the electors until such officer has served for at least one year of the term during which he is sought to be recalled.
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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TudorBrown
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Aug 24 2009 Location: Highlands D. Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 2:42pm |
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I'd sign to recall any school board member that supports tearing down Roosevelt School!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 5:17pm |
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In the November 2009 Election there were 8424 votes cast in Middletown. Now you need 15% of that number or 1264 registered voters to sign a recall petition. You will also need X amount over that to account for people who sign that aren't register, don't live in Middletown, etc. So, what about 1500-1600 signatures allowing 200-300 to be thrown out. The 8424 is not the total number of Registered voters in Middletown, it is the Number of Registered voters in Middletown who actually voted in the last election.
The next question is we are 13 days away from the Nov. 2010 election. I don't think we want to start this before then. Will more voters come out for the upcoming election than in 2009 hard to say, depends how much people are fed up with the current administration and are ready for a change.
We will most likely end up using the results of the Nov. 2010, election to figure how many signatures would be needed. I would say if this is going to done then take the next 2-3 weeks to get organized.
I would also agree with Wasteful to do a referendum if it is possible on the Commission and Boards issue. Kind of lets send a message that we are tired of not being listened to, except when it is convenient for Council and Admin as it was with the Pendleton issue. The the citizens comments was integral in the decision making process.
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randy
MUSA Official
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 5:31pm |
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I agree with the waiting to get organized, but I have had a few talks with the BOE and it is my understanding that we only need the voters of whatever ward we will be looking to have the recall on. So in this case it would be fourth ward voters. If that is the case this number will drop a lot.
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 6:26pm |
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Randy can you have whomever you talked to send you that in writing, as the way 705.92 of the ORC reads it doesn't clearly state that, that I can see.
705.92 Procedure for removal of elective officer by recall.Any elective officer of a municipal corporation may be removed from office by the qualified voters of such municipal corporation. The procedure to effect such removal shall be: (A) A petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to at least fifteen per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election, and demanding the election of a successor to the person sought to be removed, shall be filed with the board of elections. But if that is the case then you would need 15% of 1615 voters of the Nov. 2009 election or however many vote in the Nov 2010 election. Just using the 2009 figures you would need 243 plus a small cushion for the illegal signatures. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 6:46pm |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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randy
MUSA Official
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 6:52pm |
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Wasteful, I am awaiting an email now.
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Neil Barille
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Jul 07 2010 Status: Offline Points: 238 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 9:19pm |
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Pacman, I think your comment about "not being listened to" brought to mind the possibility that many MUSA posters are getting all frothy at the mouth and overestimating their importance on this recall idea. The fact that a dozen people get on here and disagree with certain actions does not mean the rest of the populace agrees that the will of the people is being ignored. For example, I have talked to a few of my old Middletown friends who have thought PAC was a nice idea or at least one that might have some promise. Don't forget, many in this town either don't care about much of anything or don't follow city news 24/7 like many of you do.
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Voice of Reason
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 13 2010 Location: Williams Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 9:20pm |
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To those of you who want a recall--who would you prefer was in City Council? And don't tell me anyone would be better than the current council, that's fool's logic if there ever was. Are any of you willing to step up to the plate and put your name out there??
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"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:00pm |
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That all depends VOR. If the voters of say the 4th ward are the ones needed for the recall, the person to replace Picard would have to come from the 4th ward also. If it were citywide that would be another matter altogether. We will have to wait for an answer from the BOE.
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Voice of Reason
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 13 2010 Location: Williams Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:29pm |
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Ok, then, how about some candidates from the wards whose counil member is to be recalled--who from Picard's ward? Who will replace Becker? Who from Allen's ward? Who will be the next mayor? Dare I suggest who from Laubach's, ward, AJ's ward, or who you would replace Scott Jones with?
I will reiterate my point--if you don't like the current crop, then please give me at least a few names who will serve as replacements. Otherwise you are falling into a fallacy in your reasoning--that anyone is better than the current council. If you believe this then you are simply showing that you are a person who hasn't fully thought out the consequences and later steps.
I am not accusing you, Pacman, of being this person, I am just stating that such an unreasoned opinion can't be listened to.
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"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Rhodes
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jun 18 2010 Status: Offline Points: 209 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:39pm |
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I'm telling you people, and I've said it before and nobody ever comments on it.... This is NOT going to make things better. The only way to get council under control and force them to make the city EMPLOYEES (including city manager, etc.) work ONLY on behalf of the citizens is to limit each term to 1 year. Congress only gets 2 years at a time. Why do we have to get stuck for 4 whole years with any of these people? This new guy that was "appointed"? We are stuck with him for how many years and he wasn't even voted in by the citizens? Isn't that how our "weird facial reaction" mayor got on council? All because other council members voted him in to replace someone else?
Nothing will change till the rules change. I just don't know how to do that given the current 4 year terms. It would probably take 10 years to get it under control if it was even possible. Council should also be reduced to no more than 5. Middletown does not need 7 council members for a city of approx. 50,000. Half of the current council members just sit there like lumps anyway. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 11:25pm |
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Rhodes,
I don't know about one year, but I certainly would agree with TWO YEAR TERMS. However, municipal elections are usually held in odd-numbered years. (I don't know whether or not this is State law.) If elections must be held in odd-numbered years, and they were two-year terms, then all terms would expire at once. Some people dislike this. Just a thought.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Voice of Reason
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 13 2010 Location: Williams Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 11:34pm |
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Rhodes, yes, our Mayor was appointed as I recall, to fill the 2nd ward vacancy, but he was elected (in a landslide, mind you) by popular vote to the position of mayor--if memory serves, Mulligan got more than 50% of the vote in a 5-candidate race.
I do agree with you that we only need 5 members on council, I think they will be much more effective when their numbers are reduced.
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"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 9:07am |
VOR your Voice of Reason is becoming UNREASONABLE. This matter just surfaced yesterday for the second time this month. Some people are gathering facts and researching the issue. No decisions have been made to even move forward and when or who to recall and who may be interested in running. I would say you are jumping the gun here. If this recall is even to Occur there will have to be some organization and vetting of those that may be interested. On the second day of this issue you are expecting to much speculation on this matter.
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TudorBrown
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Aug 24 2009 Location: Highlands D. Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 12:16pm |
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Am I mistaken, or did Allen, Becker, and Picard vote "NO" on giving Laubach the floor to comment again before voting on the Boards issue?
If these three actually voted to "shut someone up", that is deplorable... |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 12:22pm |
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Yes, Tudor they did. That is the really scary part of this 3 ring circus, you can mute an elected official simply by a 4 to 3 vote. With the animosity on this Council look for it to happen.
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Voice of Reason
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 13 2010 Location: Williams Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 9:38pm |
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Ah, now you are backtracking a bit, I see. But still, Pacman, my question remains--can you give me just one or two names of people you'd rather see on council? If it is the second time this month that the issue has surfaced then surely by now you would have given it some thought...if you had thought that far ahead, which I presume you haven't. You say it's premature to consider who should replace the current council; I would argue that a logical, clear thinking person would already have a replacement in mind if recall was the method.
To consider a recall without replacements is like shooting your gun first, then deciding to aim next.
Can anyone else who advocates a recall give me a name to consider?
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"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 11:19pm |
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