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Parking Garage Demolition

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SupportMiddletown View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 1:06am
Middletown is considering the demolition of the downtown parking garage.
 
This seems to be a logical move for several reasons:
1) yearly upkeep/utility costs are approx. $100,000
2) little to no parking demand exists downtown currently, at least not enough that it can't be handled with existing lots
3) the garage is an eyesore that divides downtown now that the mall is removed, limiting access to the YMCA, Manchester Hotel, City building, and Arts center
4) many people don't think the garage is safe, suggesting crime occurs within
 
There are also a few concerns:
1) the initial cost in more than $1 million, a big number for a cash-strapped city
2) the fate of the remaining property. Will the city plant grass? Will we get more parking lots downtown? Development is years away.
3) exposing the rear of buildings on the north side of central. Many of these buildings have service and loading areas that are not very attractive, perhaps uglier than the garage. The Dohn's building is actually built into the garage.
 
All-in-all, I think demolition is the best alternative. It will make Middletown seem less cosmopolitian though. Go down to Hamilton and they have two parking garages downtown. Even Uptown Oxford has a parking garage. We also just lost a parking garage at the Middletown hospital site, so this maybe the last one in the entire city.
 
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 6:48am
Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

All-in-all, I think demolition is the best alternative. It will make Middletown seem less cosmopolitian though. Go down to Hamilton and they have two parking garages downtown. Even Uptown Oxford has a parking garage. We also just lost a parking garage at the Middletown hospital site, so this maybe the last one in the entire city.
 
 
Support, thank you for my morning laugh.  I got a real kick out of the Cosmopolitian comment.Big%20smileLOL
 
 
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 7:02am
SupportMiddletown- please see my comments on the parking lot pavement at Bicentennial Commons. Your comments here concerning the parking garage re-inforces my comment concerning the city building structures and not having a clue how to market them, tearing them down years later and using "cash strapped" city money to correct the mistake.

Oh- by the way- there is no one running the city that has a clue what it would take to create a "cosmopolitan" theme in this town. On the contrary- the city council is doing their best to create a town of welfare recipients, Section 8 landlords/tenants and low income residents. Hardly the recipe for a "cosmopolitan" town. More an "Appalachian" theme, wouldn't you say?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 7:37am

I thought Ms Gilleland said they were going to get a bond for the demo of the garage and the Swallens building? I would guess that this bond would later be rolled into the other bonds for the downtown area.
It is true that once these building are removed it will not be a pretty site to see as you come down
Verity Parkway but what else can you do at this point other than plant it in grass.

"Cosmopolitan"...I needed a good laugh this morning.LOL LOLLOL

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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 9:00am
At the rate the city is going let's just demo everything and start all over. That would be the best thing for Middeltown. Well with the east side I guess thats what they are doing, starting over.
 
If DC ever cuts off the funds Middeltown is screwed. There will not be enough money to keep the electric on in city hall. The whole city may as well be section 8 including city hall.
 
What is a "cosmopolitan city ??" Is that a city that is knee deep in poverty ?
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 9:02am
Why not the garage, Swallens, Dohn's & others and the Manchester also?
 
Wipe it all clean and start over.
Let's be honest.
These aging structures aren't utilized and are money pits, out-dated/unattractive.
 
I just hate to see another very expensive wave of $$ thrown at a very disfunctional area formerly known as downtown. Do we actually have ANY real business center of our city currently?
 
Face it--city planning,Council/admin and ED have turned us into a mess in every part of the city.
No businesses or meaningful(or less) jobs = no money to spend in a seriously struggling retail environment for the few businesses entities left.
 
No help or plan for EXISTING businesses, however tremendous effort and expense towards a cash-loaded oil co. so they can put retail in a depressed area where many existing retailers(Rite Aid,Mid own Drive Thru/service station, Casablanca Market, D's and Dillman Foods) are fighting for their lives with no support from ED. Then the city absorbs dead real estate(Office Outfitter's, Shamrock, Whistle Stop) taking Duncan off the hook there. Demo the Jack's center/Revolos block(at whose expense?) then planning construction for Duncan Oil.
 
Hmmm........
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lrisner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 9:20am

Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:


 Support, thank you for my morning laugh.  I got a real kick out of the Cosmopolitian comment.Big%20smileLOL
 


Wasteful, you and I rarely agree but on this you are very correct!



Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

It will make Middletown seem less cosmopolitian though.
 

Support, what is the Potential of Middletown? Please tell me. I see NO potential. All I ever do on this site is to try to promote reasonableness and help push the Idea of allowing Middletown the dignity of a respectful Death. Trying to "save" Middletown is a pipe Dream. There is nothing to save! Demographics and poor Regional Development  Planning (poor in the sense that long term consequences were NOT considered) has made it impossible for Middletown to ever again be any thing but a nice Hamlet (if we do it right!).

As to your reference to Hamilton and Oxford having Parking Garages, MU is obvious for Oxford and "County Seat" should also speak for Hamilton. Without the County Business being done in Hamilton , it would be much worse and look more like Middletown.

I realize the you mean well and all, but people like you don't realize that you are just putting off the enevitable and providing encouragement to waste City Funds that could be used to bring about the Dignity I have hopes for.

My answer for Downtown? Demo it ALL and then sell the land to the highest bidder. If we end up with Residential homes on Central in the former DT area, that would be much better than continuing to subsidize non-viable Businesses that only survive with City or HUD Funding!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 11:47am
Guys....the cosmopolitian comment was just a joke! Everything else was serious, however.
 
 
I often hear comments that we should demo all of downtown. This is just not a logical solution. Most simply, we can't afford that. Acquiring that amount of property would be in the hundreds of millions. Additionally, what do we do with the successful structures, such as the Manchester, Beau Verre, 5/3, First Financial, etc, etc. You can't have this stuff dotted in between sprawl.
 
I hope we can continue to think of real solution for downtown, not a 1960's "tear it all down" logic which ignores so much logic.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

Guys....the cosmopolitian comment was just a joke! Everything else was serious, however.
 
 
That is why we were all laughing Support, it had to be a joke.Big%20smile
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 12:28pm
Support, Say a Train Depot comes to Middletown in the next 5 years.  Say you live in Dayton or Cincy, never mind Cleveland and points in between.  You would ride the train to Middletown to do what, remembering there will on;y be maybe 2-3 trains a day?  Tourists are coming to Middletown for.......................
 
I have no issue with developing downtown as long as the City lets private funds do it.  The city can't mow the grass in a park for pete sake due to lack of funds.   
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Bobbie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 12:59pm
Support - I would not count the banks as successful downtown - First Financial is located across from the city building.  Fifth Third only uses one floor - from what I understand there is not alot of traffic thru those doors.  Probably kept open for CRA reasons.  I would love to see the financial statements for the Manchester - I really doubt they are producing money.  But there is business downtown that would be effected such as Divers - Carter Lumber - Debroszi's.  I really do not see why a train stop would help Middletown - most people coming from Cin or Dayton will drive. What do we have to offer to bring any individual to Middletown for a stop.  Moving Duncan Oil to a bigger building is not a show stopper for anyone.  Other then Beau Verre there nothing for individuals to see in downtown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 1:15pm
Maybe a train staion will allow the Pink Panther to go more upscale,  and increase business for Buster's and Brewer's Gin Mill.
 
Pretty much trading one gas station for another, and adding a city-subsidized convenience store(to a cash-rich out-of-town oil co.) at the expense of another service station and 5 other small markets in the area.
Still no increase in residential in that area, particularly residential with disposable income.
 
Will be interested to hear the ED impact study on these other similar businesses, and how talks to help them have been going.
 
Did I mention that we have a huge scrapyard in the middle of all of this?
 
Sweet deal for Duncan since they couldn't give away the Office ?Outfitter's building and surrounding properties. After acquiring those properties, Duncan couldn't pull off their end of that transformation.
 
Will this cost the city between 1-2 million?
From what "fund"?
Presentation--then emergency legislation for something of this magnitude thrown out for the first time on the same night?
Should this be saved for the NEXT Council?
 
 
Then again--maybe it will work.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 30 2009 at 2:04pm
How about saving it until you at least have a piece of paper that says a train to nowhere is coming??????????
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