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Fixin' Up The Houses |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Mar 30 2011 at 6:59am |
Today's Journal...
Volunteers to repair up to 80 homes Community needed to do in-kind work, provide hospitality to teens MIDDLETOWN — Up to 80 low-income homes will get much-needed repairs thanks to the efforts of local organizations and volunteers from Group Workcamps. Supports to Encourage Low-Income Families is co-sponsoring the weeklong repair blitz with Group Workcamps, a nonprofit Christian organization based in Colorado. Church youth group members from across the nation will be converging on the city July 10-16 to repair homes in the Meadowlawn and Prospect neighborhoods. This is certainly a noble program with good intentions, no question. But in all honesty, isn't this an indictment and further evidence based on the theme our city government is sponsoring? Our city leaders, over the last 5 years have done all they could to create this low income situation and have exacerbated the issue by flooding the town by accepting all comers on the Section 8 program and by fostering low income growth. They further add to this by failing to create decent paying jobs with benefits so as to provide an opportunity for the low income folks to pull themselves up off the bottom. Our so-called leaders seem to be satisfied with ghetto creation and keeping a segment of our citizens sedated with hand-out programs which will never stimulate any desire to improve one's life. I find it ironic that on one hand, city hall goes after the fed money hand-out programs, stimulating the growth of low income in this town, creating this "we don't have enough money to fix our house" situation, and on the other hand, we read about this "feel good/do something good for the less fortunate" story that tries to remedy what the city has helped build. ???? If you want to lessen the impact of low income and lessen the number of people who can't afford to keep up their property, stop providing an atmosphere where low income is fostered and stop inviting any and all low income to the city. It ain't rocket science. JMO |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Kudos to the youth coming from far and wide to clean up some houses and sling a little paint. Vet, in light of your comment about the city exacerbating the Sec 8 problem maybe the event could be called "Marconi Week"? |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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I have participated in these kids of rehab projects. In my experiences, we have worked with elderly fixed-income individuals who have been in their homes for years and who do not have the financial means and/or physical ability to make the repairs.
Remember-Section 8 voucher holders do NOT own their property. So why would they be responsible for making repairs. It's more a matter of landlord responsibility.
These youth and their adult advisors are giving up a week of their time to work in the hot and humid summer month of July in southwest Ohio. Staying in a school that's almost 100 years old without air conditioning.
Middletown isn't the most exciting place to spend a week of your summer vacation if you are 14-18. So let's try to make a lasting impression on them with great hospitality.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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I agree swohio75. My issue is certainly not with these kids who are about to do a wonderful thing for the low income people. My issue is with the city that helped fuel the fires of the low income image with attached problems following.
The program is a terrific idea and needed. I realize the Section 8 voucher people do not own the delapidated properties in need of repair. It was the owners of the properties the city should be keying on. |
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viper771
MUSA Resident Joined: Mar 16 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 221 |
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Our neighbors qualify for such a program. I guess during the fall a similar program didn't have enough ppl to help out raking leaves and doing yard work for older ppl. So my wife and I just helped out and cleaned up their yard. I didn't mind at all. I don't see the program as a bad thing at all and I am glad that people are out there helping out older folks on a fixed income.
Now Section 8 is a totally different story... those people could at LEAST pick up after themselves. I don't know how many times I have to go pick up after those people....especially when they throw their trash in MY yard. I think the other lady next door must have a least a whole trash bags worth of crap in her front yard and does nothing to clean it up. I guess it will be up to me to clean the mess again so my place doesn't look ghetto. I know not all Section 8 people are like this..but the ones that are make the rest look really bad. I wish I could set on the porch all day and not have to work. :( I could ramble on and on about the bad side of Section 8 I see everyday in Ward 2.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Helping the elderly with their property- You and your wife are good people viper. Too bad the lady next door doesn't make the effort. Is she able to pick up the mess? The million dollar question.....how do you teach people, who weren't taught by their parents and given constant examples for them to emulate while growing up, how to take pride in themselves? Never has been an answer for that has there? Does the city need to hit them in the wallet to motivate them? Do they have enough money to pay the fine? Will they learn anything at all by paying out the money they really can't afford to give up? Probably not.
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Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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viper/Vet, the welfare programs of Sec 8, cash for babies, heck even the often abused food stamp program have really come into focus due to the Great Recession and the use/waste of taxpayer funds. What should be clear to all but the most ardent liberal is that the bleeding heart programs of LBJ's Great Society have done little to "cure poverty" but have created 2-3 generations of people who seek to live off the labor of others, blame society/"the man"/the rich for their lot in life and rarely lift a finger to help themselves.
The Great Society may have saved some elderly from utter destitution but it has wreaked for more havoc on the spirit, esteem, and work ethic of millions of people who now view healthcare, smartphones, cable, cars, beer, and cigs as necessities that should somehow be paid for by someone else.
where are the cuts to these programs? You hear less about that then you do any serious national discussion on encouraging and educating all citizens to save for their retirements. And I say this as someone who has generally voted Democratic. I now question the wisdom of those votes.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Want ot create some jobs and save the taxpayer some money in the long run? Hire and train some competent people who will be field agents for the county. With clipboard in hand, make unannounced (must be unannounced) visits to the list of welfare, Section 8, (all government hand-out programs) and audit the people for verification that they are not abusing the system. Those that are reported in violation will be taken through a "drive-thru" court procedure that will IMMEDIATELY remove them from the list of those who receive monthly checks. As soon as the free taxpayer money stops coming in, they will need to get up off the couch, get a job and start earning their keep as taxpayers, not taxpayer money takers. If they don't act after the money spigot is shut off.......they starve. Oh, I can hear the super sensitive people now saying you can't treat people that way. Reply.....bull manure- let 'em pull their own weight like all of us have to do and stop being fooled by lazy people running a game on you.
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viper771
MUSA Resident Joined: Mar 16 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 221 |
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Vet and Bill.. you guys are right. The side effect of LBJs programs was creating people who just depend on the system and abuse it. Things don't seem to be getting any better. I could understand a govt handout for a short amount of time to get you off your feet... but not 10 years or more on the program!!
What would put a huge dent in Section 8 and welfare is just doing a mandatory drug test in order to get your funds. Even after my wife and I left the army, every time you go to a VA appointment, you get a pee test to see if you are on any drugs. If they find out you are... say goodbye to your VA care.. So if vets have to do this, why not people who are getting free (taxpayer) money?!?
As for my other neighbor with the trash in her yard... I am sure she can pick it up. There is a younger guy that lives there as well, who is around my age (early 30s) but I don't see him out there picking up trash. I have seen him take his dog for a walk, and of course he lets it go on MY LAWN and does not pick it up :( I will end up picking it up when I have a chance this weekend, and triming the trees/bushes that are inbetween our property. If she can do her square foot garden stuff, she can pick up trash our of her own damn yard. I don't think a fine would even help Vet. It just makes me mad when my wife and I put in a lot of effort to keep our place looking decent, and the Section 8 that seems to live around us doesn't care. But it isn't ALL the Section 8..but the ppl who don't care hurt everyone else.
My neighbor across the street from me is Section 8, BUT... she is one of the few around here who actually takes care of their stuff. Her mom is one of the older people who lives next door to me on the other side. We all kind of help each other out and that is how it is supposed to be :) I don't mind helping people who are really in need.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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viper.....
"I have seen him take his dog for a walk, and of course he lets it go on MY LAWN and does not pick it up" Hey, a coal shovel and a little flick of the wrist and it's back on her property where it belongs! "It just makes me mad when my wife and I put in a lot of effort to keep our place looking decent, and the Section 8 that seems to live around us doesn't care". And that's just one of many negatives about having this program in town-especially when the town is saturated with it. It tends to draw the kind of people you are describing. Alot of negative aspects- not so much on the positive side. It also fosters the growth of some irresponsible landlords who become poster children for slumlords. They are the ones who need to have it put to 'em on the fines. |
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viper771
MUSA Resident Joined: Mar 16 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 221 |
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Vet...I totally agree. I can understand that the city needs the cash, a lot of cities do right now. BUT....there are better ways of doing it. Section 8 in the short term may provide some needed income, but it will drive away the good people (core) of the city. I have seen Section 8 spread like a cancer in other places, especially in California. The higher end places start to move away from the bad sectors (which were once good places)..then move out all together. It is sad that it is going on here. I know that I am pretty new to this area, but I can see the potential this place has. It doesn't have to be that the east side of town can be better than the older part of town. The town as a whole can be a great place. Starters would be to really scale back the Section 8, which would help the city image. Instead of just investing in art (which is ok on a small scale at first), it would have been better to promote entertainment businesses. No matter how bad the economy is...people will pay to be entertained. If the cinny state deal does work, it would be great. People at this point need to become more educated. Public schools need revamped (which would happen if there were less Section 8 to deal with).. The list goes on and on. This stuff isn't impossible. Things just need to be managed better, which is the root of the problem and has been discussed on other posts. I hate to see this once proud town go downhill. The whole reason why I moved here was to fix up my old house, with our own cash, and fix up a little area of my own. In some respects, I can see others around me following suit, which is pretty cool.
Anyway enough of my soap box. With the dog vet... I was thinking of just collecting it up in a bag, and leaving it on their doorstep along with all the trash I pick up :) But then that will just make me the bad guy..
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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viper- take it from a person who has been around here since the 50's.....you would have loved to have lived in this town back in the 50's/60's. Truely a family town with most things done right. Almost a total opposite in city operation from the cluster you see now. Home grown people back then that had a personal interest in the city. Not anymore. Too many outsiders with too many special behind-the-scenes interests to care about the town. Just move in, get what you can out of it, bleed it dry and when the time is right, leave, not giving a dam about the destruction you have caused. There aren't too many original folks left from the old era that cared about the city. Spider, MikeP, 409 and a few others who know and have lived what happened to this city. It is sad.
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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The real lesson from the whole "Great Society" experiment is that, even with the best of intentions, it's difficult to know how something will work. Just because it sounds like a good idea, doesn't make it a good idea. Unexpected consequences occur when an idea isn't thought thru. Proof of that notion is all around Middletown.
I was a child in the 60's and lived in Franklin then, but my aunt lived in Middletown and visiting her and going to downtown was really like going to the big city. I'm not sure it's so much outsiders as it is the apathy and the me, me, me, attitude now. Can you imagine what would happen if there were a REAL war or natural disaster? IMO, we've had it good for so long we forgot what it takes to get there. Will we ever get it back or even more important, will we ever see a day where community is more important than self?
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Vet, I fully understand your philosophical point and one's you make eloquently consistently regarding the demise of Middletown. I mean not to diminish your point, but I would take umbrage it is the 'carpet baggers', scallywags, outsiders, who ruined Middletown. On the contrary, it has been the consistent 'lifers' who wish not to give up their power, their sense of entitlement, that bagan IMO with having Armco as the bedrock of union and labor entitlement. The problems in Middletown are on the shoulders of 3-4 generation families who have lived in Middletown for 50 years or more, or their parents, grandparents. They are like a company that cannot recognize a paradigm shift, nor desire to do so. They want to keep Middletown as it was, and take care of themselves.
On the contrary, I have found those with the greatest disgust with what has become of Middletown to be the outsiders, who moved in, and just cannot exert any influence over the condition of the city. They have great ideas, are caring, considerate, and have a vested interest. They are not the 'lifers' who are waiting for the assisted living or nursing home, after being here all their life.
While I recognize your point how sad to see the decline in Middletown, which I am in complete agreement, I see not the program in outsiders moving in; rather, insiders who simply won't let go. Getting back to a Mike Presta post a few weeks ago, it is they----the Insider, who cannot deal with the truth and see what is the realism associated with Middletown's decline. It is the Insider who cannot recognize there to be a problem. The Outsider clearly does.
Great memories of this town when a kid, parking in Thornhill and thought Middletown in many areas, was like Beverly Hills. Soapbox derby runs, great schools, great teachers. Its gone, but the memories.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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acclaro- I agree with your post and would like to clarify my message if I may.
I'll use some of your comments. "On the contrary, it has been the consistent 'lifers' who wish not to give up their power, their sense of entitlement,......" "The problems in Middletown are on the shoulders of 3-4 generation families who have lived in Middletown for 50 years or more, or their parents, grandparents. They are like a company that cannot recognize a paradigm shift, nor desire to do so. They want to keep Middletown as it was, and take care of themselves". As I see it, there are the people you describe above who are the culprits in all of this. Their stubborn, protective, won't let go attitude is destroying the town. Agree. There is also a "sub-category" of those people in town..... There are also people who have lived the majority of their lives in Middletown (might have left town for a few years and came back), including me and people like Spider and perhaps 409, who disagree with what these "old guard lifers" are doing to this town. I (I won't speak for Spider,409 and others)am in the category of the "lifers" but have enough sense to know that they are wrong and the town needs to be fixed and re-invented from a steel town to another venue and I certainly know that we are in desperate need of some competent leadership on council and in the city building. What we have now is a joke. I also have a desire to see my hometown live again and recover from it's current condition. I have no other motive other than to see it run properly and the people enjoying a decent life here. The OUTSIDERS..... Then, there are the people who "came later" AFTER the "good times" and have no basis of comparison to go by as to how well this town was run and how pleasant it was to live in years ago (as you recalled at the end of your post). I call these people "outsiders" simply because they were not involved in the town at the time it was prosperous. Some of these "outsiders" occupy the city building and are currently screwing this city up big time with their decisions and direction from the lifers. The term "outsider" is not meant to be derogatory as much as it is meant to mean not associated with the prosperous past and not necessarily introduced to the "climate" or "flavor" of the town. The outsiders, like Kohler and Gilleland, have made the decision to take instructions from the lifers. Perhaps they are intimidated by them, don't know. |
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viper771
MUSA Resident Joined: Mar 16 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 221 |
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I always said I was born in the wrong era...I bet you guys have some old pictures of the town from when you were growing up.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Vet, I have read enough of your posts to know how much you admired Middletown and are distarught of what it has become. Like you and others, Mike Presta, etc., I came back to Middletown in the late 1980 range. I was extremely hesitant to move to Middletown then, because Armco was down, it had changed hands, and you could see the decline in the city then. Today, I am in shock how the rapid demise has occurred, particularly after the hospital left, Fenwick, and the execs at AK, and of course, the close downs of many mills, and so forth.
I agree with your point in city hall. I think it collapsed with Mr. Becker and his gift to get him a higher retirement, then the interim guy, then his friend, Ms. G. Mr. Kohler has too much of Lebanon in him. I love Lebanon, but Middletown is not a quaint, small town. I think the direction and the spinning has gone round and round far too long. Its truly comical to read Ms. G talk about electronic sensors used by Cincinnati State through the connection with the company that makes them---that generated a business transaction of probably less than $1,000.
It is a shame if not a crime, to what Middletown has become under its failed leadership over 25 years. Many reasons for it, but the damage is done. No positive way to spin it. What the city has done to the streets and infrastructure is beyond pale. Ms. G actually was surprised there were not residents dancing in the streets to take advantage of the city's gennerous offer to 'front' street repair, which the residents would pay for. What they have done to the citizen is truly criminal. Yes, there is a market decline, but Midletown is as bad if not worse than any city in Ohio, other than Wilmington.
There are many that feel your pain, I am one, as there are many others. Greed, neglect, studpidity, so many reasons and causes. I am convinced entitlement was the final straw that created the dead zone.Here's a toast to the past and a very dismal future. Just think in 10 years, all the estate sales going up all over, as the 'lifers' are gone, and no one to fill the housing stock.
Amazing how quickly the cancer cluster went 'hush' in the past day. Talk about a dead zone! I'm beginning Cincinnati State leadership is about as clueless as the city---what a marriage.
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