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Santa Claus parade
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processor View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
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Points: 151 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote processor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 11 2014 at 2:32pm
No doubt that the miserable condition of Middletown contributed to the move. That was #2 on my list.
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Trotwood View Drop Down
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Points: 117 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2015 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by processor processor wrote:

Trotwood,
In my opinion AK moved their headquarters to West Chester for four main reasons.
1. There is no income tax in West Chester
2. There were few amenities in Middletown for entertaining customers and the office was not in a pretty area
3. West Chester was closer to where executive management lives (east side of Cincinnati) and wasn't too far for all of the employees who still live in Middletown and the local area.
4. The executive management lost confidence in city government

The biggest reasons were convenience for executive management and no income taxes again for executive management. I know many AK corporate people and don't know any who live in West Chester.

Pollution had about ZERO to do with it.

Better late than never, right? Sorry about the reply delay. I'll make a few points:

Processor, you bring up excellent points. These are all probably true, not formally provable but I think we all could agree they would merit consideration if we sat on AK's Board of Directors.

And this feeds into a larger discussion, one I think is summarized well by Fortune Magazine in these articles:
http://fortune.com/2014/07/07/taxes-offshore-dodge/
http://fortune.com/2014/08/28/is-burger-kings-move-to-canada-a-raw-deal-for-u-s-taxpayers/

Or even by NCR's departure from Dayton, chronicled by the NY Times here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/us/25land.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Again, a discussion way outside the scope of a Santa Claus parade/ bringing life back into Middletown OH.
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Trotwood View Drop Down
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Points: 117 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2015 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Ahhh, Trotwood, how I love the minds of young people.
    I wish we had hours to sit and discuss the history of Middletown and Urban Planning but we don’t.
    Over the years I have seen hundreds of plans for “Designer Neighborhood”. Many of these early perfect neighborhoods were designed and or built by the very wealthy of heavy industry high on the hill overlooking their companies and where their employees lived. Some were truly company towns, entire communities built by the company around the factories for their employees.  
    Everyone wants to live in one of these perfect neighborhoods as long as that nasty factory or the city dump is not in their backyard. Remember that even Rome had its yuppie neighborhoods.
    So Trotwood as you can see the class system is still alive and well.
    If the current businesses in downtown want locals to support their businesses then they must offer what the community wants to purchase at a price they are willing to pay…it’s just that plain and simple.


You have a good point.... building a better city requires having people who are invested in its future and are willing to put in the work to see it succeed. Poor/struggling people have neither the time nor the energy to do this. Or worse yet, these people actively demoralize the character of a city by committing illegal actions and being hostile towards others, etc. There's a million different ways to basically say that people who can afford to live away from undesirables will.

But keep in mind that I say people who can AFFORD to live away from undesirables will. Who can afford to? People like yourselves, honestly - older, established or retired Baby Boomers (or even Greatest Generation members...) that have had their career. 

Millennials don't have any of those luxuries. We can barely get loans or jobs that pay above minimum wage even if we have technical training, or an associate's degree, or a bachelor's/master's in liberal arts. Even some entry-level engineering positions only pay $35-$40k a year. Labor no longer has the value it used to even 20 years ago. 


So where is labor in demand? $9/hr STNA's. Minimum wage Foodservice workers. $10/hr Hourly distribution center employees. And so on. Millennials don't have the money for suburbia.


So where will they come? Places with more amenities, more community, more connectivity. Because why buy when you can rent?

Middletown can pull off a transformation, most everything is in place. The biggest issue I see is AK, which yeah you all poke fun at me for but ask any Realtor or city planning consultant and they would tell you the same. There's a reason why Hamilton's urban movement is gaining traction in ways Middletown's isn't. And no I would place the blame on city government on this one.
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Trotwood View Drop Down
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Points: 117 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2015 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Trotwood:

"As proof, I'll ask - how many employees who work at AK and can afford to live outside Middletown choose to do so?"

I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBERS OF AK EMPLOYEES LIVING OUTSIDE THE CITY BUT I CAN GUESS WHY THEY WOULD CHOOSE TO DO SO.

I KNOW YOU ARE REFERENCING POLLUTION HERE AS THE REASON WHY AK EMPLOYEES WHO CAN AFFORD TO LIVE ELSEWHERE CHOOSE TO DO SO.

HOWEVER, IMO, IF A SIZABLE NUMBER OF AK EMPLOYEES CHOOSE TO LIVE OUTSIDE MIDDLETOWN, IT HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH POLLUTION AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE POOR SCHOOLS, VERY FEW ENTICING NEIGHBORHOODS REMAINING, HIGH CRIME, POOR IMAGE, POCKETS OF GHETTO DEVELOPMENT, AND OVERALL GLOOMY MALAISE/INEPT OPERATION WITHIN THE CITY. IMO, POLLUTION PROBABLY WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE TOP TEN LIST OF REASONS TO NOT LOCATE TO MIDDLETOWN. I BELIEVE YOU ARE GIVNG THIS POLLUTION THING WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT AS THE CITY CULPRIT FOR TURNOFFS REGARDING THIS CITY.

Trotwood:

"Want more proof?
AK's HQ is now in West Chester, and one of the big reasons is because West Chester is closer to where AK's actual corporate employees live. It's also considered to be a more "desirable" community. I would assume the lack of pollution is a factor in this assumption"

YOU ARE CORRECT ON THIS. BOTH AK AND THERMO BLACK CLAWSON (I WORKED FOR THEM AT THE TIME), ANOTHER LONGTIME MIDDLETOWN INDUSTRIAL INSTITUTION, BOTH LEFT MIDDLETOWN FOR A SIMILAR REASON........THEY WERE CONCERNED WITH COMPANY IMAGE. NEITHER WANTED TO BRING IN CUSTOMERS TO THE MIDDLETOWN ENVIRONMENT. BLACK CLAWSON MOVED THEIR OFFICES TO MASON-MONTGOMERY RD.....MUCH MORE MODERN AND DESIRABLE AS TO IMAGE AND PROFESSIONALISM. SAME WITH AK TO WEST CHESTER. UPSCALE BEATS GHETTO SCOURGE ANYTIME AS TO IMPRESSING CUSTOMERS. AGAIN. YOU CAN THANK YOUR MIDDLETOWN CITY LEADERS OVER THE LAST 3 DECADES FOR THE DEMISE OF THE BUSINESS CLIMATE HERE IN TOWN. THEY SAT BACK AND LET IT HAPPEN WHILE HAVING A WINDOW SEAT TO OBSERVE THE COLLAPSE. INEPTNESS RUNNING THE ASYLUM.

I agree, for many pollution isn't consciously considered when moving to a location.

But let me turn it around - would YOU, if someone tomorrow gave you $500k for your house and you accepted the offer, turn around and buy a new house that met the requirements for your $500k dream home, right next to Mt. Rumpke in Colerain?

Pollution is an issue that should not be discounted. Sure, maybe if you live in the northeast end of Middletown it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but all of these "trouble spots" - the Section 8 apartments around Leffferson and Briel, the trailer parks around Excello, the neighborhood surrounding the former Amanda and Oneida Elementary schools of Oxford State Rd. - those sure as heck don't have high-dollar housing. Or a high property value, standing as houses or demolished for another use.

If Middletown is going to turn around, ALL of it is going to have to turn around.
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Trotwood View Drop Down
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Points: 117 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trotwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2015 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

AK Steel left Middletown as a top priority because the strike at the Middletown Works was such, they did not want to tether their corporate identity and reputation to a city getting such bad press, and a site getting bad press associated with a labor dispute. The other reasons cited  are correct. AK knew years prior to many, what direction Middletown was headed----south, they wished to head north in reputation.    

TROTWOOD, if Middletown had no success in the years prior to the current effort in building downtown, ergo, the years it had a city mall with a roof, the years the roof was removed, why do you state it is important now? The city decline in population began 15 years ago, when the city was in its phased approach to build downtown a 2nd or 3rd time..

Demographic changes. Wealth changes. Mindset changes.

Pre-recession, this economy was being fueled in large part by a seemingly endless demand for new housing. Obviously those days are over. Not only are people not buying new houses, they are actively wanting to decrease their responsibilities by buying smaller houses. 

Why? Partly because there's a lot less middle class wealth, and people cannot afford to buy as much as before. See my response to Vivian.

Also, partly because of demographic changes. The newest generation coming up the ranks, the Millennials, is by far the most racially diverse generation ever seen in the US. Non-white individuals overwhelmingly prefer to live in urban environments. And often non-white individuals lack the capital and desire to buy new houses in platted developments. They are looking for community in a traditional neighborhood.


So Acclaro, if done right, Middletown could become the desirable place to live once again. It's all a matter of putting in the right amenities, the right atmosphere, and the right incentives in place to get private businesses to do their part. School reform is necessary too, at least to be on par with Hamilton schools (which are doing quite well at the moment). It can happen with the right leadership and the right strategy.
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