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Councils 4-3 split raises concern

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Nelson...Himself View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nelson...Himself Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Councils 4-3 split raises concern
    Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 8:14am

Council’s 4-3 split raises concern

          Vice mayor points out voting patterns on ‘major issues’;

          mayor says votes are ‘the way it works out sometimes.

 

           By Jessica Heffner, Staff Writer Updated 1:54 AM Sunday, October 17, 2010

 

Honest and thought-provoking commentary!

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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 8:26am
Something has got to change with this council. It is clear that there are two camps on council and in my opinion only one has the city's interest in mind.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 9:18am
I talked with 3 members of Council during the time that Mr.Armbruster's seat was un-filled and the interview process was on-going. I urged them to keep the 3-3 deadlock  until they could be happy with a suitable replacement. This way, they still had clout, and could gridlock any unfavorable motions and voting.
 
While Mr.Allen is a wonderful asset to the community, he had mentioned that he was recruited for the position, however he failed to mention just exactly who was urging him to seek the term. I mentioned that if he was chosen, then we would most likely have the current 4-3 voting blocs. So--whomever wavered on choosing Mr.Allen is somewhat responsible for this situation and has no business whining about it now.
 
Mr.Allen was clearly chosen, and it is his right/duty to vote as he sees to be in the best interest of the citizen, regardless of who else agrees with his direction.
 
A 4-3 vote is just that---could easily have been in the other direction.
We have this split--live with it-make the best of it--and replace these officials at the next opportunity, hopefully with better and more inclusive representatives. Once again--we have one year to find suitable, widely accepted replacements in a general election.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 9:32am
The reality is, the notion of a 4-3 is being blown WAY out of proportion and being sensationalized:

As reported in the Journal, here's how the City Council voted since March 6:

65 legislative decisions

52 unanimous approvals

3 issues passed on 4-3 split votes

8 abstentions, 1 of which was in a vote that resulted in failed legislation

1 issue failure; Becker, Jones, Mulligan and Picard voted aye, Smith voted nay, Laubach abstained

Source: Middletown City Council minutes

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Mtown View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:12am
This whole city council "split" issue is a figment of over zealous minds. I few 4-3 votes is not a big deal. In fact I would suggest it is healthy.

The same people complaining about the so-called split would complain if every vote was unanimous.

Move on to some issue that matters Spiderjohn.
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accuro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote accuro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:13am
Gulp! Is there a point to be missing? All the above madeprevious reference to Mr. Picard's rudeness. The correlation was the rudenesswas driven by the split vote (Mr. Picard made it very clear he felt Mr. Lambauh was a distraction and taking away from the city's work). Ever take note of the inconsistencies in voting rationale? Its better to go outside Middletown for committees becauseno one is competent in the city to serve? Rubbage.
 
So then, what motivates these 4 horsemen? Allen gets a substantial portion of billing fees from the school district, just like C,S, & H gets fees from the city for audit. He'l pull strings and for what gain? Pretty self evident. The issue wasn't the 4-3 voting block, the issue was the rudeness andtrain wreck by a 4 horsemen member who ran ove one of the three "trouble makers", two who vot generally,for the citizens, not the bidding of those we know who pays for the city running as it does.
 
Next election change? Sure thing. Soon with the 'at large" take-over, it will be ALL 7-0. Anyone know why that was orchestrated? Wrong topic of discussion on voting block, real point was how four are aligned, and that was what caused the blow up with Picard and Lambaugh.      
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:56am
It is not the number of 4-3 votes that matters.  It is the legislation that was passed by a 4-3 vote.  If you were buying salt for the year and it was 4-3 who cares.  But, the issues that are 4-3 are important to the community, maybe not to some of you, but to many of us they are.  The Historic Areas regulations, The make up of committees to allow outsiders, because we all of a sudden need experts.  These are far more important than your average run of the mill legislation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:04am

Accuro, that might be the best way of heard this whole situation put yet!! Also well said Wasteful!

 

Mtown, I would suggest you look at the issues council has been split on; these are important issues that are being split. I don’t even care so much which way council votes, I just want to hear them say why they are voting a certain way on issues. Vote yes or no, but give people a reason why. Stop just sitting there and voting yes on every issue. If someone agrees or disagrees with it at least they (we) can say I know why you voted that way.  

 

Things do need change in this city and soon, many people on this site, the ones that defend our city council and some of its irrationally votes and lack of any reasonfor such a vote, you  need to pull their heads out of the sand and look around our town and what is happening.

 

***Anyone been to Detroit lately? I have!! Never been 240 miles from Middletown and felt like I never left.

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:28am

BINGO!! Accuro

Ordinance No. O2010-69
, an ordinance amending sections 260.01 (Required Meeting Minutes); 260.02 (Failure to Attend Meetings); and 260.03 (Residency Requirement) of the Codified Ordinances. (2nd Reading)

VOTE NO! NO! NO! Thumbs%20Down

    I find it strange that the City is using the Middletown Cemetery to change the Residency Requirement to sit on any and all boards.
    Over the past year Ms. Gilleland, Dave Duritsch and Ron Phelps have met with Fred Wehr on several occasions about the maintenance and security of the
Middletown Cemetery and as of this date the city has not followed any of Mr. Wehr’s suggestions. Even the gates are not being locked at night anymore.
    While it is true that Mr. Wehr has more experience than anyone else in the City about operating a cemetery, I’m against changing the residence requirements for all the boards. The current problems at the cemetery do not need an EXPERT because they can be seen by any citizen walking through the grounds and reading ORC 4767.06 to understand what is needed at this time.
I’m sure Mr. Wehr would offer his help to those chosen to serve on the cemetery board.
    The other serious problem at the cemetery is the fact that the City does not know, (1) Who is buried at the cemetery and (2) Where they are buried.
I have been researching and correcting the records for the past six years however I still do not have this project completed.
    This entire situation is nothing more than a power play by City Hall.
VOTE NO!
   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:46am

Did I hear Mr. Landen say that other non residents were on other boards and he was aware of it?

Again the LAWS only apply when the City wants them to apply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 12:18pm
thanks mtown--lol that you are still obsessed with me--however I might stay with this issue for now.
Some 4-3 votes matter a lot more than other 4-3 votes, and we clearly have a solid 4-3 vote split.
As long as the current 4-vote bloc keeps making poor decisions, our community will continue to suffer.
Still--6 of these Councilmembers were chosen by the citizens, and the tie-breaker was chosen by Council.
So we live with it for now.
 
And I agree with accuro that it will probably be 5-2 or 7-0 after the next election.
 
Sad part being that the current Admin, Council majority, mtown and their puppetmasters keep making poor overall decisions, many that will have lasting negative results.
 
So--what is the going rate for rent at the PAC?
I might have to get a space down there.
Will we really have a tattoo shop?
Can't wait to see that first show, and what quality these renters produce!
Pendleton WILL be able to fulfill their promises and obligations in a timely manner, won't they mtown?
How are the related business start-ups coming mtown?
At least the Lewis Group offers something positive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 12:50pm
Mulliganisms.......“I have been on the other side of 4-3 votes, too,” said Mayor Larry Mulligan.( oh really- tell us when mayor) “That is really just kind of the way it works out sometimes.”When asked why he did not assert his authority, Mulligan said it would have stifled both Picard and Laubach’s opinions if he used his gavel — a sanction he prefers not to invoke.(or, he doesn't have it in him to control a meeting and take charge)

“It’s been my approach typically that I have let conversations go to allow a free flow of opinions,” he said.( Horsemanure Larry. You're just a non-confrontational person. You feel uncomfortable with conflict) “I think I probably could look to structure meetings a little more formally if we need to go that way, but I may just see what happens".

"BUT I MAY JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENS?" You saw what happened Mayor Larry. It was confrontational, it was rude, it was out of line for one councilperson to tell another to "shut up while I'm talking" Mercy! How far does it have to go before you draw the line on proper behavior? How about a fist-fight!

And, of course, the timeless.....we are not set up at this time to ...you know the rest.

Nope, the "4" camp has a pre-arranged, understood agreement that they will vote on agendas pre-set by their masters. The "3" camp appears to have as their agenda, the people of this city. They are a thorn in the side of the majority. I agree that we will see an attempt to make the number 5-2, 6-1 or wipe the slate clean of anti-master people at 7-0 the next round.

We need a "Bell California" event to take place here although we don't have the criminal element to make as much of an impact.

As Mr. Picard would say.....

Now, if you will just "shut up" while I'm a typin'........

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 12:53pm
The 6 or so people that obsess about the city and city council on middletownusa need to get a life. Seriously. The 3 votes that were 4-3 were 2 that raised water and sewer rates. You would expect there to not be unanimous agreement on those issues. The other was on the update to the historic district ordinance. Mr Laubaugh didn't want any historic district ordinance at all. So you would expect there would be disagreement there as well.

How would you middletownusa goofs have voted?
Why don't you run for office. Or maybe you did and were rejected by the voters!
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:05pm
I have grown tied of you Mtown, what do you do in this community that amounts to anything?? And please if you dont like the things being said on this site by people that are concerned about this city feel free to not come back. I promise you wont be missed.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:18pm
Mtown- I would be happy to run for council but I would need you to do two favors for me to allow that to happen.

1. I work in private industry and can't take off like Becker, who is retired, like Mulligan who runs a bank and has the luxury of taking off when he wants, like Picard and Allen who run their own business, and the rest who seem to break away from their regular jobs when council business is needed. I need you to talk to my employer and ask them to allow me to take off for city business. (Be prepared for a negative answer though)

2. When I get off work at 4:30, I come home to my other job of taking care of my wife who has had a stroke and can't use her left arm and who can't walk. Would you be able to watch her while I go to the council meetings. I'll teach you how to be a care-giver.

If it weren't for a full time job in Dayton and a wife that needs constant care because she is handicapped, I would take you up on running for council. Find me a solution for these two things and I'll oblige you. You're up next on the reply. Oh, as far as "getting a life". Sometimes, life itself doesn't allow you to choose whether you have a life or not. Sometimes bad things happen in life that determines the life you will have. Sometimes you get blindsided. I don't have the luxury of searching for a life anymore. My life has already been charted by the man upstairs. It is not what I want at 62. It is not what we had planned in later years, but it is what it is and we live with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by randy randy wrote:

 

***Anyone been to Detroit lately? I have!! Never been 240 miles from Middletown and felt like I never left.

I have.  Many, many times.
 
I completely disagree with your assesment. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:41pm

Which part do you disagree with ?

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:51pm
Detroit does not even come close to Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:57pm
Hahaha Ok I will give you that, Detroit is at least trying to rebuild and bring in businesses. Middletown is a wreck and not getting better. I drove to Trenton this moring as I do every monring before work ( Baby sitter leaves there) I always go down Central and you can really say that our downtown is a joke.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 2:18pm
now now Randy--mtown is probably not set up to answer ?s at this time.
Answers must be provided first by the handlers
 
mtown is only here to taunt, distract and intimidate
none of which is really working
 
must be lost since the MJ cut off comments
the obsession with this forum and it's authors is somewhat comical, and almost scary
 
hey mtown---BOO!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 5:20pm
.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 5:39pm

Did the City give special permission for this person to be on this board?

Is he an expert in a certain field concerning the operation of an airport?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:15pm
So are we breaking the law???
 
 
 
Ordinance No. O2010-69, an ordinance amending sections 260.01 (Required Amend 260 Boards Meeting Minutes); 260.02 (Failure to Attend Meetings); and 260.03 (Residency

Requirement) of the Codified Ordinances was presented and read for the first time.

Ms. Gilleland explained that council asked staff to look at the current ordinance and requirements. The current ordinance calls for all members of boards and commissions to be residents of the City. It is very typical of most cities to appoint residents or electors. At the same time some boards and commissions may require an area of expertise. If Council feels this is in the best interest of the City, the recommendation is to keep a majority of any board of commission be filled by electors.

Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3>Did the City give special permission for this person to be on this board?


Is he an expert in a certain field concerning the operation of an airport?



CHAPTER 288: AIRPORT COMMISSION
Section
288.01 Establishment; composition; terms of office. 288.02 Duties.
CROSS REFERENCES
Power to operate an airport - see Ohio R.C. 717.01(V)
State law on aeronautics - see Ohio R.C. Ch. 4561
Airports - see Ohio R.C. Ch. 4563
Endangering aircraft and airport operations - see GEN. OFF. 672.14
Municipal Airport - see S.U. & P.S. Ch. 1060
Airport turning zone restrictions - see P. & Z. 1272.08

§ 288.01 ESTABLISHMENT; COMPOSITION; TERMS OF OFFICE.

There is hereby established in and for the City an Airport Commission, to be composed of seven members. Initially, three of the members shall be appointed for two-year terms and four shall be appointed for four-year terms. At the expiration of these initial terms, members shall serve four-year terms. No member shall serve more than two full consecutive terms. Section 260.03 of the Codified Ordinance requiring members of boards or commissions of the City to be residents of the City is not applicable to the Airport Commission.

(Res. R85-31, passed 7-2-1985; Am. Ord. O2008-88, passed 10-21-2008; Am. Ord. O2009-01, passed 1-6-2009)

§ 288.02 DUTIES.
The Airport Commission shall advise the City Council on all matters relative to the Municipal Airport and air traffic in
the City area.
(Res. R85-31, passed 7-2-1985)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:49pm

MY original post here was in error.

I was not aware of an exception to the Codified Ordinances passed in January, 2009.

My apologies to Messrs. Picard, Landen, and Allen!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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