Councils 4-3 split raises concern
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3382
Printed Date: Nov 23 2024 at 1:23pm
Topic: Councils 4-3 split raises concern
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Subject: Councils 4-3 split raises concern
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 8:14am
Council’s 4-3 split raises concernVice mayor points out voting patterns on ‘major issues’;mayor says votes are ‘the way it works out sometimes.’By Jessica Heffner, Staff Writer Updated 1:54 AM Sunday, October 17, 2010Honest and thought-provoking commentary! |
Replies:
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 8:26am
|
Something has got to change with this council. It is clear that there are two camps on council and in my opinion only one has the city's interest in mind. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 9:18am
|
I talked with 3 members of Council during the time that Mr.Armbruster's seat was un-filled and the interview process was on-going. I urged them to keep the 3-3 deadlock until they could be happy with a suitable replacement. This way, they still had clout, and could gridlock any unfavorable motions and voting.
While Mr.Allen is a wonderful asset to the community, he had mentioned that he was recruited for the position, however he failed to mention just exactly who was urging him to seek the term. I mentioned that if he was chosen, then we would most likely have the current 4-3 voting blocs. So--whomever wavered on choosing Mr.Allen is somewhat responsible for this situation and has no business whining about it now.
Mr.Allen was clearly chosen, and it is his right/duty to vote as he sees to be in the best interest of the citizen, regardless of who else agrees with his direction.
A 4-3 vote is just that---could easily have been in the other direction.
We have this split--live with it-make the best of it--and replace these officials at the next opportunity, hopefully with better and more inclusive representatives. Once again--we have one year to find suitable, widely accepted replacements in a general election.
|
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 9:32am
|
The reality is, the notion of a 4-3 is being blown WAY out of proportion and being sensationalized:
As reported in the Journal, here's how the City Council voted since March 6: 65 legislative decisions 52 unanimous approvals 3 issues passed on 4-3 split votes 8 abstentions, 1 of which was in a vote that resulted in failed legislation 1 issue failure; Becker, Jones, Mulligan and Picard voted aye, Smith voted nay, Laubach abstained Source: Middletown City Council minutes |
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:12am
|
This whole city council "split" issue is a figment of over zealous minds. I few 4-3 votes is not a big deal. In fact I would suggest it is healthy.
The same people complaining about the so-called split would complain if every vote was unanimous. Move on to some issue that matters Spiderjohn. |
Posted By: accuro
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:13am
|
Gulp! Is there a point to be missing? All the above madeprevious reference to Mr. Picard's rudeness. The correlation was the rudenesswas driven by the split vote (Mr. Picard made it very clear he felt Mr. Lambauh was a distraction and taking away from the city's work). Ever take note of the inconsistencies in voting rationale? Its better to go outside Middletown for committees becauseno one is competent in the city to serve? Rubbage.
So then, what motivates these 4 horsemen? Allen gets a substantial portion of billing fees from the school district, just like C,S, & H gets fees from the city for audit. He'l pull strings and for what gain? Pretty self evident. The issue wasn't the 4-3 voting block, the issue was the rudeness andtrain wreck by a 4 horsemen member who ran ove one of the three "trouble makers", two who vot generally,for the citizens, not the bidding of those we know who pays for the city running as it does.
Next election change? Sure thing. Soon with the 'at large" take-over, it will be ALL 7-0. Anyone know why that was orchestrated? Wrong topic of discussion on voting block, real point was how four are aligned, and that was what caused the blow up with Picard and Lambaugh. ------------- An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out. - Will Rogers |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:56am
| It is not the number of 4-3 votes that matters. It is the legislation that was passed by a 4-3 vote. If you were buying salt for the year and it was 4-3 who cares. But, the issues that are 4-3 are important to the community, maybe not to some of you, but to many of us they are. The Historic Areas regulations, The make up of committees to allow outsiders, because we all of a sudden need experts. These are far more important than your average run of the mill legislation. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:04am
|
Accuro, that might be the best way of heard this whole situation put yet!! Also well said Wasteful! Mtown, I would suggest you look at the issues council has been split on; these are important issues that are being split. I don’t even care so much which way council votes, I just want to hear them say why they are voting a certain way on issues. Vote yes or no, but give people a reason why. Stop just sitting there and voting yes on every issue. If someone agrees or disagrees with it at least they (we) can say I know why you voted that way. Things do need change in this city and soon, many people on this site, the ones that defend our city council and some of its irrationally votes and lack of any reasonfor such a vote, you need to pull their heads out of the sand and look around our town and what is happening. ***Anyone been to ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:28am
|
BINGO!! Accuro  I find it strange that the City is using the Middletown Cemetery to change the Residency Requirement to sit on any and all boards. Over the past year Ms. Gilleland, Dave Duritsch and Ron Phelps have met with Fred Wehr on several occasions about the maintenance and security of the While it is true that Mr. Wehr has more experience than anyone else in the City about operating a cemetery, I’m against changing the residence requirements for all the boards. The current problems at the cemetery do not need an EXPERT because they can be seen by any citizen walking through the grounds and reading ORC 4767.06 to understand what is needed at this time. I’m sure Mr. Wehr would offer his help to those chosen to serve on the cemetery board. The other serious problem at the cemetery is the fact that the City does not know, (1) Who is buried at the cemetery and (2) Where they are buried. I have been researching and correcting the records for the past six years however I still do not have this project completed. This entire situation is nothing more than a power play by City Hall.
VOTE NO! |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:46am
|
Did I hear Mr. Landen say that other non residents were on other boards and he was aware of it? Again the LAWS only apply when the City wants them to apply.
|
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 12:18pm
|
thanks mtown--lol that you are still obsessed with me--however I might stay with this issue for now.
Some 4-3 votes matter a lot more than other 4-3 votes, and we clearly have a solid 4-3 vote split.
As long as the current 4-vote bloc keeps making poor decisions, our community will continue to suffer.
Still--6 of these Councilmembers were chosen by the citizens, and the tie-breaker was chosen by Council.
So we live with it for now.
And I agree with accuro that it will probably be 5-2 or 7-0 after the next election.
Sad part being that the current Admin, Council majority, mtown and their puppetmasters keep making poor overall decisions, many that will have lasting negative results.
So--what is the going rate for rent at the PAC?
I might have to get a space down there.
Will we really have a tattoo shop?
Can't wait to see that first show, and what quality these renters produce!
Pendleton WILL be able to fulfill their promises and obligations in a timely manner, won't they mtown?
How are the related business start-ups coming mtown?
At least the Lewis Group offers something positive.
|
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 12:50pm
|
Mulliganisms.......“I have been on the other side of 4-3 votes, too,” said Mayor Larry Mulligan.( oh really- tell us when mayor) “That is really just kind of the way it works out sometimes.”When asked why he did not assert his authority, Mulligan said it would have stifled both Picard and Laubach’s opinions if he used his gavel — a sanction he prefers not to invoke.(or, he doesn't have it in him to control a meeting and take charge)
“It’s been my approach typically that I have let conversations go to allow a free flow of opinions,” he said.( Horsemanure Larry. You're just a non-confrontational person. You feel uncomfortable with conflict) “I think I probably could look to structure meetings a little more formally if we need to go that way, but I may just see what happens". "BUT I MAY JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENS?" You saw what happened Mayor Larry. It was confrontational, it was rude, it was out of line for one councilperson to tell another to "shut up while I'm talking" Mercy! How far does it have to go before you draw the line on proper behavior? How about a fist-fight! And, of course, the timeless.....we are not set up at this time to ...you know the rest. Nope, the "4" camp has a pre-arranged, understood agreement that they will vote on agendas pre-set by their masters. The "3" camp appears to have as their agenda, the people of this city. They are a thorn in the side of the majority. I agree that we will see an attempt to make the number 5-2, 6-1 or wipe the slate clean of anti-master people at 7-0 the next round. We need a "Bell California" event to take place here although we don't have the criminal element to make as much of an impact. As Mr. Picard would say..... Now, if you will just "shut up" while I'm a typin'........    
|
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 12:53pm
|
The 6 or so people that obsess about the city and city council on middletownusa need to get a life. Seriously. The 3 votes that were 4-3 were 2 that raised water and sewer rates. You would expect there to not be unanimous agreement on those issues. The other was on the update to the historic district ordinance. Mr Laubaugh didn't want any historic district ordinance at all. So you would expect there would be disagreement there as well.
How would you middletownusa goofs have voted? Why don't you run for office. Or maybe you did and were rejected by the voters! |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:05pm
|
I have grown tied of you Mtown, what do you do in this community that amounts to anything?? And please if you dont like the things being said on this site by people that are concerned about this city feel free to not come back. I promise you wont be missed. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:18pm
|
Mtown- I would be happy to run for council but I would need you to do two favors for me to allow that to happen.
1. I work in private industry and can't take off like Becker, who is retired, like Mulligan who runs a bank and has the luxury of taking off when he wants, like Picard and Allen who run their own business, and the rest who seem to break away from their regular jobs when council business is needed. I need you to talk to my employer and ask them to allow me to take off for city business. (Be prepared for a negative answer though) 2. When I get off work at 4:30, I come home to my other job of taking care of my wife who has had a stroke and can't use her left arm and who can't walk. Would you be able to watch her while I go to the council meetings. I'll teach you how to be a care-giver. If it weren't for a full time job in Dayton and a wife that needs constant care because she is handicapped, I would take you up on running for council. Find me a solution for these two things and I'll oblige you. You're up next on the reply. Oh, as far as "getting a life". Sometimes, life itself doesn't allow you to choose whether you have a life or not. Sometimes bad things happen in life that determines the life you will have. Sometimes you get blindsided. I don't have the luxury of searching for a life anymore. My life has already been charted by the man upstairs. It is not what I want at 62. It is not what we had planned in later years, but it is what it is and we live with it. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:21pm
I completely disagree with your assesment.
|
randy wrote:Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:41pm
|
Which part do you disagree with ? ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:51pm
| Detroit does not even come close to Middletown. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 1:57pm
|
Hahaha Ok I will give you that, Detroit is at least trying to rebuild and bring in businesses. Middletown is a wreck and not getting better. I drove to Trenton this moring as I do every monring before work ( Baby sitter leaves there) I always go down Central and you can really say that our downtown is a joke. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 2:18pm
|
now now Randy--mtown is probably not set up to answer ?s at this time.
Answers must be provided first by the handlers
mtown is only here to taunt, distract and intimidate
none of which is really working
must be lost since the MJ cut off comments
the obsession with this forum and it's authors is somewhat comical, and almost scary
hey mtown---BOO!!
|
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 5:20pm
| . |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 5:39pm
|
Did the City give special permission for this person to be on this board? Is he an expert in a certain field concerning the operation of an airport?
|
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:15pm
|
So are we breaking the law???
Ordinance No. O2010-69, an ordinance amending sections 260.01 (Required Amend 260 Boards Meeting Minutes); 260.02 (Failure to Attend Meetings); and 260.03 (Residency
Requirement) of the Codified Ordinances was presented and read for the first time. Ms. Gilleland explained that council asked staff to look at the current ordinance and requirements. The current ordinance calls for all members of boards and commissions to be residents of the City. It is very typical of most cities to appoint residents or electors. At the same time some boards and commissions may require an area of expertise. If Council feels this is in the best interest of the City, the recommendation is to keep a majority of any board of commission be filled by electors. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:41pm
CHAPTER 288: AIRPORT COMMISSION Section 288.01 Establishment; composition; terms of office. 288.02 Duties. CROSS REFERENCES Power to operate an airport - see Ohio R.C. 717.01(V) State law on aeronautics - see Ohio R.C. Ch. 4561 Airports - see Ohio R.C. Ch. 4563 Endangering aircraft and airport operations - see GEN. OFF. 672.14 Municipal Airport - see S.U. & P.S. Ch. 1060 Airport turning zone restrictions - see P. & Z. 1272.08 § 288.01 ESTABLISHMENT; COMPOSITION; TERMS OF OFFICE. There is hereby established in and for the City an Airport Commission, to be composed of seven members. Initially, three of the members shall be appointed for two-year terms and four shall be appointed for four-year terms. At the expiration of these initial terms, members shall serve four-year terms. No member shall serve more than two full consecutive terms. Section 260.03 of the Codified Ordinance requiring members of boards or commissions of the City to be residents of the City is not applicable to the Airport Commission. (Res. R85-31, passed 7-2-1985; Am. Ord. O2008-88, passed 10-21-2008; Am. Ord. O2009-01, passed 1-6-2009) § 288.02 DUTIES. The Airport Commission shall advise the City Council on all matters relative to the Municipal Airport and air traffic in the City area. (Res. R85-31, passed 7-2-1985) |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:49pm
|
MY original post here was in error. I was not aware of an exception to the Codified Ordinances passed in January, 2009. My apologies to Messrs. Picard, Landen, and Allen!!!------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:52pm
Not according to the Codified Ordinance section I posted above. |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:57pm
| SW was this ordinance changed about a year or two ago when they appointed someone outside of the City to the Airport Commission? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 6:58pm
|
Yessir- that's what it says swohio75. Wonder why the Airport Commission was excluded from an all residence requirement? Are there any other boards that are excluded like this? Was the ordinance written to exclude this particular board? Calling the crack research department to provide answers as only you guys can!
|
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 7:03pm
|
I was not aware of this! I sit corrected. My apologies to Messrs. Picard, Landen, and Allen.
I would delete the inaccurate post, but the forum will not allow me to do so. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 7:06pm
Yes. The Library Board for one because its jurisdiction also includes Monroe, Trenton and West Chester, and sounds like it is under the provisions of the Ohio Revised Code. § 1072.02 APPOINTMENT OF BOARD OF LIBRARY TRUSTEES. The custody, control and administration, together with the erection and equipment of a free public library, shall be vested in a Board of Library Trustees, composed of six members, who shall be appointed by the City Council in accordance with the provisions of Ohio R.C. 3375.12. (Ord. 3200, passed 5-23-1956.) My guess is that the Tax Incentive Review Board does as well as because it involves school districts and there are several school districts (Middletown, Franklin and Lebanon) within Middletown's borders. |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 9:48pm
|
VietVet, what exactly is wrong with being non-confrontational? Frankly I like that in a politician--give me a cool-headed person over some emotional type any day. I think we do far better with the elected leaders who are level-headed and not emotional than the ones who try to appeal to your emotions rather than your rational thinking, as Mulligan does. And I must correct you, VietVet, working in the banking industry does not permit someone to "take off whenever they want." Quite the contrary, actually.
Also, in this same article, I found AJ's comment to be irresponsible and factually incorrect--did anyone else notice that? The tragedy at Air Products was not a result of a lack of training but rather a pretty clear cut lack of execution of that training. It's basic procedure not to enter a confined space before the atmospheric conditions are established and the firemen--who understandly were rushing to try to save a life--did not do so, and as a result it cost one life and nearly two others. So AJ was simply wrong about that. Also, it is very irresponsible for an elected official to place blame on the city while an invesitigation/lawsuit is undeway. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 10:43pm
|
Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 11:57pm
|
[QUOTE=accuro]Gulp! Is there a point to be missing? All the above madeprevious reference to Mr. Picard's rudeness. The correlation was the rudenesswas driven by the split vote (Mr. Picard made it very clear he felt Mr. Lambauh was a distraction and taking away from the city's work). Ever take note of the inconsistencies in voting rationale? Its better to go outside Middletown for committees becauseno one is competent in the city to serve? Rubbage.
If there is no one in this city that is competent enough to serve on these committees, why do the members of council who think this, think they are competent enough to run this City??? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 6:59am
|
Well Voice of Reason, let me respond to your post.
"VietVet, what exactly is wrong with being non-confrontational"- Nothing wrong with being non-confrontational if you can obtain the correct outcome. When Picard and Laubach were going at it, I would have expected the mayor to interject at some point and gavel the situation before it got to the "if you'd just shut up....."comment by Picard. If I were mayor, not only would they have gotten the gavel and a cease and desist, when I heard that comment from Picard, it would have been a public admonishment as well. You seem to want to do it the "kinder/gentler" way. How would you have handled it? Cool-headed/non-confrontational like Mulligan, emotional like Laubach, Smith and Scott-Jones, barely breathing and disinterested like Becker, or totally detached like Allen, I suppose it takes all kinds. "VietVet, working in the banking industry does not permit someone to "take off whenever they want." - Mulligan is a VP at the bank. I would imagine he can come and go when he wants with no questions asked. He attends many events during working hours, when lower echelon workers would be on the job, and seems available for all of them. I doubt very seriously that he is challenged by anyone when he wants to leave for a city function. The city worker opened the manhole without entering the confined space initially. It was only after he was overcome by the lack of oxygen that he fell into the opening. No one was aware that there was a leak from the Air Products line in the opening. No amount of training could have told him what was on the other side of that manhole cover. As soon as he opened it, that was it. The firefighters, on the other hand, had an indication that the area was dangerous when they approached the opening and noticed he had fallen into the opening. Why they didn't use the proper PPE, especially being aware, is another issue. Lastly, you talk about irresponsibility for an elected official to place blame on a city while being investigated?- Perhaps, but if the subject is irresponsibility concerning a city official, I can list many "irresponsible behavior by a city official" episodes that have occured over the last twenty plus years. Smith did nothing special nor nothing new concerning city official behavior. This is not the first time this has happened where a city official has "jumped the gun" on the comments. Gilleland and crew do it all the time and retract their statements when what they say doesn't come to fruition. JMO |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 7:07am
| As I've been saying all along, AJ Smith is an embarrassment. Too immature, too mouthy, and too desirous of kissing as much ass as he needs to to get a firefighter position. |
Posted By: Molly
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 7:51am
| I asked a council person about the airport commission and I was told that the change was made due to the airport becoming a "regional" airport. That is all that I know. Middletown Regional Airport/Hook Field. |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 9:06am
|
Molly that is like saying:
1) We hire city employees from outside the city limits so we should have non-residents on the Civil Service Commission.
2) We arrest people from outside the city and people from outside the city use our Police and Fire Service so we should have non-residents on the Citizen Advisory Board.
3) People from outside the city build houses and office Complexes, etc. hence we should have non-residents on the Planning Commission.
4) Many people use our Parks, so lets have non-residents on the Park Board.
ETC., ETC., ETC., you get the point.
It just doesn't make sense, you can say this for just about every commission/board in any city in the area. Go on down to West Chester and try to get on one of their Boards or Commissions.
|
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 9:57am
|
Once again--why would anyone living outside of Middletown want to serve on local boards and commissions without compensation? Unless they operate a business within the city.
We have more than enough competent local willing to serve. Bottom line--Council/Admin probably does not want certain qualified citizens to have input and knowldege regarding city policy and happenings.
Look for the 4-3 split to re-surface on this issue, with no comments or reasoning mentioned by the majority.
hey mtown, SWOhio,SupportM--just where do you serve and donate your time?
|
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 12:34pm
|
Spiderjohn
I don't think it should matter, but I for one born in mtown, started my own business in mtown, raised family in mtown and still live in mtown. How about you spiderjohn, did you start your own business? |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 1:08pm
|
I am not sure I believe that, A business in this town would not be too happy with the way this city is being ran, as you seem to be. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 2:15pm
|
why did you remove the post Spider? ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 19 2010 at 4:10pm
|
just don't see a need to clarify myself to mtown,, especially when the answers are known.
mtown is here for intimidation and distraction.
If you have a gnat buzzing around you, either kill it or ignore it.
I respect mtown's right to act however chosen, agree or not.
Reminds me of a wonderful Van Morrison song called "Why must I always explain"
My wife turned me on to it, saying that this tune had to be written by me or about me.
The lyrics fit me well, and could have come from my thoughts.
Check it out.
|
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 3:29am
|
no real surprises last night other than Lenny R embarrassing Council and staff by publicly exposing incompetence and intentionally bad direction.
Mayor's new rules shouldn't be necessary if mature adults were on Council.
Smith was good, speaking much better and on the right side of the issues for the right reasons.
Scott-Jones was silent, while Laubaugh continued to break the issues down to common sense lowest possible denominator.
The "regionalism" logic of Mr.Becker is weak--just read the reasons listed by accuro. Picard's rambling was incoherent and embarrassing. Allen's twisted logic and insincere promise of listening and responding to the public was more window-dressing.
Section 8 mess continues to be a mess.
Another big night for the Darth Vader group and their hit team of out-of-town hired gun "experts".
Next year's commission/board appointments should be frightening with the 4-3 split dominating everything.
1st ? at Monday's forum should be "Who chose Mr.Allen". Let the vote be made public.
|
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 3:55am
Might I suggest that this post is misplaced?
It would be more appropriate in the "City Manager" category under your Topic: "What has the City Manager and Admin done right?" ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 7:21am
Journal story says council listened to three citizens who were opposed to outsiders manning the boards/committees and then promptly voted to allow it to happen in a 4-3 split once again. Mayor Larry stated the other day that it occasionally happens. Seems more often than not, right Lar? 
Checked the current status of all the board/commission members(ie. Golf, Parks, Tree, Planning, etc.) and where they live. Many boards have members living outside the city. Some with 45005 and 45011 zips. Mike "Butch" McKoy lives way out in Greycliff past Fenwick and he's on the Golf Committee. What is his expertise, as Picard puts it, to qualify him for this, other than he competes in some golf tournaments occasionally? Apparently the city has been doing this for quite some time against the rules they had established in the charter/ordinances, right? AJ Smith asked Leslie Landen if the city was breaking the law, and ole' Les, in his twisted interpretation of what is in black and white stated something to the effect that we were "bending the rules" or some bs like that. |
Posted By: Anita Scott Jones
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 7:26am
|
I need to respond to an issue that keeps coming up. As I have stated in the past, I will not nor can I spend all day responding to blogs but I will to this one. Reference is made to who voted for Tom Allen? If my memory serves me correctly, when we voted on the floor, we all voted for Mr. Allen. If reference is being made to executive session, I would like to know who gave information to the contrary? I have no problem with justifying my vote on any issue. I will not discuss any issue that arises in executive session and if someone is doing so, it will be addressed. I raised the issue of the 4-3 because each time I would make a request to look into an issue, four votes were needed and I simply saw a trend of the MAJOR issues. Things always have a way of taking care of themselves. As I have stated on numerous occasions, I do not expect everyone to care for me, but I made two promises when I ran for council. I did not take anyone's money and I have held to my promises. If you want to judge me for that, that is your choice. I have three options next year and I plan to exercise one of them. You all have the option to vote next year.
Anita
|
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 7:52am
|
Ms. Scott-Jones, First, please allow me to express my gratitude to you (and Messrs. Smith and Laubach) for voting in The Peoples’ best interests last evening re: non-residents on boards and commissions. The four votes cast in favor of that question were an insult to the good citizens of this city. Next, I do spend a great deal of time reading and responding to blogs, including this one, and I am frankly caught off-guard by the comments in your 7:26 am post on this thread. However, I was unable to access a computer for the great majority of the period between September 14 and October 5. Perhaps one of the other regulars here on MiddletownUSA.com can direct me to the specific post(s) of which you speak??? This would be greatly appreciated. PS: I look forward to seeing you on Monday, 10/25, at your next Conversation With Council. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 8:16am
|
Ms.Scott-Jones--it was me who posted about "Who chose Mr.Allen?", since he was Council-appointed, and not citizen-elected.
Yes--my ? refers to what went on in executive session. I was told nothing about this executive session, hence my ?.
Council could not initially make a choice(surprise!) as to who of the 3 individuals would assume the Council seat. There was a second round of interviews, followsed by more executive session. At that time Council emerged and voted to appoint Mr.Allen. So--obviously some member or members had a change of mind, or Mr.Allen would have been appointed earlier.
Since this closed-door negotiation has greatly affected how our city operates and exactly who may serve on the NUMEROUS city boards and commissions, I don't see my ? as being out of line. Executive session or not(does everything discussed in executive session appropriate to discuss in executive session?), the public can ? the process.
How you choose to respond is absolutely your option.
By your tone and on-line response, it might be reasonable to assume that you were a supporter of Mr.Allen.
By the unanimous vote to appoint Mr.Allen, Council is moving in a direction that was clear to be the result of such choice. So--any dismay or concern over the current 4-3 voting blocs shows a clear lack of proper anticipation. I believe that it was Ms.Scott-Jones who recently raised the concern about the now common 4-3 voting split.
Anyone who didn't see this coming was obviously not paying attention.
Nothing against Mr.Allen--he was chosen to vote his conscience, and he is clearly doing just that.
|
Posted By: Molly
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 8:38am
| I saw 2, 4-3 votes last night. One went the "normal" way and one didn't. (the vote to extend discussions on the board/commission issue). |
Posted By: Anita Scott Jones
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 8:53am
|
Spider and Molly,
Thank you for your posts. This will be my last post. This initially had nothing to do with what it is now about. It had to do with requests for information. Nevertheless, there was a post that mentioned 3-3 split concerning Mr. Allen. Was that an assumption? Spider, I have already stated that all of us voted for Mr. Allen. It could have easily gone the other way and still be a 4-3 split. My concern is that it is usually the same. I will not begin to speak for my colleagues. If there truly is a divide, then now the public is aware. If there isn't, then time will tell. I sure hope some of you will consider running next year.
Anita
|
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:25am
|
Ms.Scott-Jones--I did mention that Council did not come to a decision on the choice first time around. Since there were 3 suitable candidates desiring the position, there are many possiblilities as to whom/how Council would line up their choices. If I did mention a 3-3 split, then it was a guess or an error on my part.
Despite that Council's public pledge to put the best most appropriate local citizens in the most suitable positions, I was told that nothing had really changed, and the "good ole boy network" of positioning and reward was still in full swing. So--YES I am concerned over last night's legislation and how it will impact these local boards and commissions, and every other citizen should also be concerned.
|
Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 12:03am
|
The same people complaining about the so-called split would complain if every vote was unanimous.
------------- Welcome to my paintings website - http://www.wholesaleartmall.com - Wholesale Art Mall . |