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HUD FUNDNG

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HUD FUNDNG
    Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 8:00am

Gentlemen
    I realize that it has been difficult for many to understand why Nelson Self and I have ranted and raved about City Council changing many of the rules concerning
HUD CDBG funded programs over the past several years.
For many years HUD Funds were used primarily in the 1st & 2nd Wards because they had the highest poverty, highest crime rate and the greatest need.
All of this has changed since Mr. Adkins has taken over the Community Revitalization Department.
First the City Council did away with the Wards and reduced City Council to 5
Then Mr Adkins declared all of Middletown a SLUM under the 54% rule so he could use any HUD funds in any area of Middletown. Over the past several years these HUD funds have been used in the upper class neighborhoods while many high poverty high crime areas received no funding at all.
Below is a perfect example of what City Council and Mr. Adkins actions have now set in motion.
Now under this rule any
law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians or teachers can purchase a home using HUD funds in any area of Middletown and get a 50% discount off the list price, even a house on Main Street or the Highlands Historic District.
 
HUD's Good Neighbor Next Door initiative is designed to encourage revitalization by assisting law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians and teachers to purchase homes in target neighborhoods in Middletown. HUD provides a substantial incentive in the form of a fifty percent discount off the list price of eligible properties.   For information on the program, click here: http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/reo/goodn/gnndabot.cfm
http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/community/comdev.aspx

It is time for City Council to change the current legislation and return these HUD funds back to the 1st and 2nd Ward where the need is greatest.

 

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greygoose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 10:30am
Viv,

Mr. Adkins didn't make the rules, he's simply following them. If HUD states that the entire town qualifies for its perks and programs, then the entire town qualifies for its perks and programs. I, for one, have no problem with law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians or teachers moving to our city (although I've never liked the regulation).

Also, I'm still waiting for an answer to why Mr. Adkins' praise of Nelson & Associates and The Inspection Group is unjustified.
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 10:37am
Don't understand this at all. Firefighters, medical techs, teachers and other professionals earn enough money to buy their own home. No help with a home purchase is necessary for their income level.

HUD's Good Neighbor Next Door initiative is designed to encourage revitalization by assisting law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians and teachers to purchase homes in target neighborhoods in Middletown. HUD provides a substantial incentive in the form of a fifty percent discount off the list price of eligible properties.

OK, AS I INTERPRET THIS, THIS PROGRAM IS SET UP TO ENCOURAGE PROFESSIONALS SUCH AS TEACHERS, FIREFIGHTERS AND MED TECHS TO BUY A HOME IN LOWER INCOME HUD STEREOTYPED NEIGHBORHOODS FOR THE PURPOSE OF UPGRADING THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S RESIDENTS. MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA IN THEORY. CAN'T IMAGINE MANY TAKERS. WHO WANTS TO LIVE IN A POTENTIALLY CRIME RIDDEN NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE PROPERTY VALUES WILL NEVER REACH A DECENT LEVEL, EVEN IN GOOD TIMES AND WITH ALL THE BAD STEREOTYPICAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH WHEN THEY CAN AFFORD A HOME IN THE OAKS AND NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANY OF THAT CRAP? THIS APPEARS, ON THE SURFACE, TO BE A WASTE OF TIME IMO.
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Neil Barille View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Barille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 11:50am
Vet, my guess is that buyers see these as rental properties.  I doubt many actually live in them.  So with our tax dollars we are allowing "public servants" to become landlords.  It's like another perk on top of their pension.
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greygoose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 1:16pm
If I'm not mistaken, the homes available for this program are "owned" by HUD via foreclosures, etc.. I can tell you from personal experience that you don't have to be a policeman or fireman to buy a HUD owned home for 50% off "their" established value. It's commonplace..... per HUD's web site, in May '12, the last two Middletown properties sold for 36% and 23% of their assessed "tax" values.

Again, Ms. Viv has a habit of "leaving things out" if they don't tie in to her "personal" agenda.

GG


"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 7:27pm

Viv,
Mr. Adkins didn't make the rules, he's simply following them. If HUD states that the entire town qualifies for its perks and programs, then the entire town qualifies for its perks and programs. I, for one, have no problem with law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians or teachers moving to our city (although I've never liked the regulation).

How many other cities in Ohio have enacted legislation to declared their entire town of 50,000 residence “Slumville USA” so they could manipulate HUD funds away from the poverty areas?

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 7:36pm

If I'm not mistaken, the homes available for this program are "owned" by HUD via foreclosures, etc.. I can tell you from personal experience that you don't have to be a policeman or fireman to buy a HUD owned home for 50% off "their" established value. It's commonplace..... per HUD's web site, in May '12, the last two Middletown properties sold for 36% and 23% of their assessed "tax" values.
Again, Ms. Viv has a habit of "leaving things out" if they don't tie in to her "personal" agenda.

Those on this blog are fully aware of the million dollars that have been wasted by the city on their real estate ventures. I don’t need to spin the facts…I just posted the numbers.   

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greygoose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 8:32pm
I just posted the numbers

If you don't to, don't...... and you don't need to.
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 9:57pm
It is my understanding that 75% of police and firefighters live out of Middletown anyway.  So why in the hell would they want to but a house in Middletown under it's current situation?

PacmanCool
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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by Pacman Pacman wrote:

It is my understanding that 75% of police and firefighters live out of Middletown anyway.  So why in the hell would they want to but a house in Middletown under it's current situation?

PacmanCool
 
Why the hell would anyone want to buy a house here is the question Pacman. Wish I would have thought of it before I took the plunge "again"
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greygoose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 2:03pm
If I'm not mistaken, the homes available for this program are "owned" by HUD via foreclosures, etc.. I can tell you from personal experience that you don't have to be a policeman or fireman to buy a HUD owned home for 50% off "their" established value. It's commonplace..... per HUD's web site, in May '12, the last two Middletown properties sold for 36% and 23% of their assessed "tax" values.
Again, Ms. Viv has a habit of "leaving things out" if they don't tie in to her "personal" agenda.

Those on this blog are fully aware of the million dollars that have been wasted by the city on their real estate ventures. I don’t need to spin the facts…I just posted the numbers.

Prove to me that our current learship has wasted millions on their real estate deals! If you state such things as fact, back it up with facts. I’ll accept that. I have no doubt that your message board “cronies” will agree with you, but that proves nothing. Come on… back it up with facts.
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 7:11pm
Manchester, the Thatcher portfolio. A lost leader right goose? The $5 Mm for giving Doug McNeil infrastructure funds which the Atrium did not need from the city street funds, the previous downtown effort, Act 1, that was with a roof, that became Act 2, without a roof, that became Act 3, a wasteland, that is now Act 4, a wasteland with an alleged Cincinnati State branch with 5 students. A golf course, an airport and accompanying hangers...hmmmm. that's about $9 Mm.     
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 7:35pm
greygoose,

I attended a city council meeting about a year ago where the a presentation of NSP fund distribution was made by Mr. Adkins. Unfortunately, there was no chance to ask questions or make any comments during the meeting. What struck me from that presentation was how federal programs encourage spending money and taking losses while having such a small impact. Mr. Adkins stated in that meeting that HUD encouraged them to take losses on rehab and resell property of at least $45,000 per unit!!! That didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't now. I understand your point about out-of-state banks and landlords who won't fix their properties (and I agree that something needs to be done), but when you see the kind of short-sighted management of other funds by city government, you wonder what the priorities are. Government is not about profit, it's about return on investment; the most benefit for the most people with the funds available. When you depend on government funding and then spend them in such a haphazard manner, you threaten the credibility and trust of local officials. Acclaro's post above is an excellent example of wasted efforts in Middletown and why there is so much distrust of any plan that proposes to take more money from taxpayers and property owners. Rebuilding that trust is going to take time and transparency that, to this point, is not forthcoming.
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greygoose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 10:13pm
greygoose,

I attended a city council meeting about a year ago where the a presentation of NSP fund distribution was made by Mr. Adkins. Unfortunately, there was no chance to ask questions or make any comments during the meeting. What struck me from that presentation was how federal programs encourage spending money and taking losses while having such a small impact. Mr. Adkins stated in that meeting that HUD encouraged them to take losses on rehab and resell property of at least $45,000 per unit!!! That didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't now. I understand your point about out-of-state banks and landlords who won't fix their properties (and I agree that something needs to be done), but when you see the kind of short-sighted management of other funds by city government, you wonder what the priorities are. I agree that the program appears to be wasteful, but is it the fault of Middletown leaders? As I understand it, the city is just following the rules established for the program by the feds. Government is not about profit, it's about return on investment; the most benefit for the most people with the funds available. When you depend on government funding and then spend them in such a haphazard manner, you threaten the credibility and trust of local officials. Acclaro's post above is an excellent example of wasted efforts in Middletown and why there is so much distrust of any plan that proposes to take more money from taxpayers and property owners. Rebuilding that trust is going to take time and transparency that, to this point, is not forthcoming. I’m not sure why “following the rules” should promote distrust. In my eye’s, questions should be asked of the federal government concerning their guidelines. On the surface, I would agree that they appear out of touch with reality. However, do they know something that we don’t know? Could it be that it is better to lose $45,000 on one house than to allow for that same, abandoned, house to bring down the property values of “every” house on the street. Regardless, I don’t see where city officials are doing anything other than following the rules. What am I missing?
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 11:11pm
GG...you are missing the crux of the argument. 100% of the NSP money is centered on Main Street and taken from areas that need it more in what was once, ward dichotomy and separation. Your missing the fact the city gave up on downtown and suddenly, when the two Mulligans were elected, and what has always been a priority for Mr. Kohler, making Middletown a warm and fuzzy version of Lebanon v. 2.0. Your missing the city is a major holder of real estate, not exactly a core competency for a municipality correct? Your missing the city has taken funds from the street fund since 1986, to use for other purposes (and you advance destroying houses is an answer to overcapacity when infrastructure looks like Croatia or Syria?).  You miss the point the city and council did away with the ward system to stack council with MMF'ers. You missed the fact what MMF did that---so the money would be consolidated on Main Street.

I ask you, as you ask Vivian Moon many questions. Why is the city investing in downtown, version 5.0, when all other efforts have failed? is it because council members have vested interest in Main Street for some bewildering coincidence?

You are missing quite a bit, most importantly, an open and objective mind in my opinion.
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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TonyB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 11:32pm
greygoose,

It isn't just that the program is wasteful. The very notion that the "rules" allow for that waste is the reason no one has any trust in government. One house isn't going to raise the property values of an entire block!!! Instead of using that money to leverage renovation on the entire block, now you have one house with a value of $75 -$80k on a block of $35k houses. That won't lift the property values on the block and it also makes it impossible for the purchaser of said house to resell without taking a substantial loss! I always have a problem with the excuse of "those are the rules" as justification for wasteful, inefficient government spending. Effective and efficient government is the goal; if there are rules that interfere with that goal, they need to be changed!!! Quite frankly, it IS the fault of city leadership to continue to operate under such a wasteful set of rules. Real leadership would be going to HUD officials and saying " Here is our plan to use these funds where and how they will best serve our community needs. What do we have to do to get this plan approved?" If the only goal is to get more money from the federal government without regard to its use, then city leaders have succeeded. I, for one, don't consider that success or leadership!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 12:16am
Show me..... show me where 100% of the NSP money is centered on Main Street. Prove to me that is happening and you will have made progress with me. If you don't, you've further proved my point that "facts" aren't needed on this board if you repeat the same mantra enough times.

Contrary to your current belief, I am open to the idea. All that I ask is prove it to me. Typing the words "Perry Thatcher Portfolio" does prove anything to me. Give me something with some meat on the bones. Prove to me that 100% of the NSP money goes to Main Street and you will have accomplished something. Just provide me with some proof..... I've been asking for the same thing three damn weeks and I'm told that I'm missing the crux of the argument. Again... Provide Proof and I might start taking everyone's theory's more seriously. Until then, its just more BS to me.
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 1:10am

I’m not sure why “following the rules” should promote distrust. In my eye’s, questions should be asked of the federal government concerning their guidelines. On the surface, I would agree that they appear out of touch with reality. However, do they know something that we don’t know? Could it be that it is better to lose $45,000 on one house than to allow for that same, abandoned, house to bring down the property values of “every” house on the street. Regardless, I don’t see where city officials are doing anything other than following the rules. What am I missing?
Greygoose
This will be my last post to you. If you need further information you will need to call Mr. Adkins or Mr. Kohler. I’m sure they have all the answers that you are looking for.
I do not know why you seem so obsessed with Mr. Adkins an his actions but I will answer you one more time.

I do not believe that Mr. Adkins had ever been involved with any HUD Program until he took his current  position with the city.
I was involved with HUD Projects off and on for about 20 years. 

I believe Nelson Self was an administrator for several HUD programs in different areas of the country for about 30 years. We discussed this comment several years ago and we have NEVER heard any HUD Official state that it was ok to loose $45,000-$75,000 on a rehab project..NEVER!
What has this got to do with “following the rules”? This is about ROI…This is about getting the biggest bang for the buck…This is about being frugal with tax payers dollars.
For a City that stated in December 2011 that we were going broke they seem to spend money like a drunken sailors on leave…then they hold out the tin cup and want more.
GreyGoose..it was called “The War On Proverty” for a reason..the funds were to help the poor.
You may not think there is a problem with City Officals bending the rules so they can use the funds in high income areas…but I do.
It shows me that they have no ethical or moral character.
It’s like my granny said..if it looks like a snake and hisses like a snake..its a SNAKE!
And we sure do have a snake pit down at City Hall.


     

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 1:36am
I'd love for Grey Goose or any other City shill to cite where the Code of Federal Regulations states that NSP grantees could lose say $45,000 per individual housing project.  Back in 2009 it was Doug Adkins who claimed that HUD had no objection to losing $75,000 per individual housing project.  Where does this provision exist Grey Goose?
Nelson Self
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 1:42am
I'm proud of you Ms. Viv. I finally got you to state an OPINION. I can handle anything that you throw out there if you state it as an opinion. It's a shame that this is your last post to me. I guess I'll never get that answer about Nelson & Associates.

In all seriousness, I have done enough "venting" for a while. Since you posed it as an opinion, I am compelled to look into the HUD program a little deeper. I am on record that I don't like the idea on the surface. Now it is time to figure out if it is a Middletown or a HUD issue. If I find that Mr. Adkins is throwing that kind of money away without good reason, I will jump off of his bandwagon so fast that it'll make your head spin. Until then, Go Doug! Tear 'em down!
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 7:44am

TonyB,
I may be wrong, but my research concludes that there is no such thing as a HUD 54% rule (aka slum rule). It is a perfect example of how Ms. Viv's mis-statements get adopted as fact.
My research indicates that Mr. Adkins discovered that the 2000 census showed that 54% of Middletown families were at a low or moderate income level. This "fact" qualified the entire city for NSP funding. Mr. Adkins pointed this fact out to city council and they agreed that revising the benefit to apply to the entire city was in the city's best interests.
Please take note...... the entire city qualified using 2000 census numbers. Can you imagine where those numbers are now!
I would agree that the entire city is not a slum. But who said that an area had to be a "slum" to qualify for this funding? It's another example of how Ms. Viv's misleading statements get adopted as fact on this board. Yesterday, she admitted that she coined the "slum" phases. Can you start to understand my frustration? If something is stated enough times, people tend to adopt is as truth. If my research is flawed, I invite anyone to prove otherwise. I am more than willing to go back to my source documents.


GreyGoose
Your research is flawed.
Did Mr. Adkins invent the wheel also?....mercy
Mr. Adkins didn’t discover the 54% rule or any thing else for that fact.
As I stated before Mr. Kohler had used the 54% rule long before Mr. Adkins ever came to City Hall for rehabing several of the houses on
Main Street.
Ya see Greygoose If you were really a landlord you would already know about Mr Adkins and Nelson & Assoc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2012 at 6:14pm
I have yet to find any documentation that references a 54% rule. Can you provide one? It may change my point of view.
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 16 2012 at 7:00pm
Well Greygoose
Go to work for HUD or build HUD housing and you will hear a lot of HUD slang.LOL
Mercy Greygoose is that the best ya can come up with?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greygoose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 8:46am
Viv,

I am not trying to come up with anything other than what qualified the city of Middletown for the HUD benefits that it receives. I have seen the 54% rule referenced many times on this board but can't find a mention of it anywhere on the HUD website or any search engine for that matter. I know that 54% low to moderate income incomes qualified us but I don't know if 54% is the qualifying number. Mercy, Viv, give me a break...... I'm just looking for the facts!
"If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 9:36am
Greygoose
Yes 54% rule refers to the fact that 54% of the population in
Middletown is low to moderate income level.
Just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done by City Hall.
City Hall was able to request more Section 8 vouchers.
How did that plan work out for them?
The HUD funds need to be returned to the areas of GREATEST NEED
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