HUD FUNDNG
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4606
Printed Date: Nov 23 2024 at 7:08am
Topic: HUD FUNDNG
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Subject: HUD FUNDNG
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 8:00am
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Gentlemen |
Replies:
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 10:30am
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Viv,
Mr. Adkins didn't make the rules, he's simply following them. If HUD states that the entire town qualifies for its perks and programs, then the entire town qualifies for its perks and programs. I, for one, have no problem with law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians or teachers moving to our city (although I've never liked the regulation). Also, I'm still waiting for an answer to why Mr. Adkins' praise of Nelson & Associates and The Inspection Group is unjustified. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 10:37am
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Don't understand this at all. Firefighters, medical techs, teachers and other professionals earn enough money to buy their own home. No help with a home purchase is necessary for their income level.
HUD's Good Neighbor Next Door initiative is designed to encourage revitalization by assisting law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency medical technicians and teachers to purchase homes in target neighborhoods in Middletown. HUD provides a substantial incentive in the form of a fifty percent discount off the list price of eligible properties. OK, AS I INTERPRET THIS, THIS PROGRAM IS SET UP TO ENCOURAGE PROFESSIONALS SUCH AS TEACHERS, FIREFIGHTERS AND MED TECHS TO BUY A HOME IN LOWER INCOME HUD STEREOTYPED NEIGHBORHOODS FOR THE PURPOSE OF UPGRADING THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S RESIDENTS. MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA IN THEORY. CAN'T IMAGINE MANY TAKERS. WHO WANTS TO LIVE IN A POTENTIALLY CRIME RIDDEN NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE PROPERTY VALUES WILL NEVER REACH A DECENT LEVEL, EVEN IN GOOD TIMES AND WITH ALL THE BAD STEREOTYPICAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH WHEN THEY CAN AFFORD A HOME IN THE OAKS AND NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH ANY OF THAT CRAP? THIS APPEARS, ON THE SURFACE, TO BE A WASTE OF TIME IMO. |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 11:50am
| Vet, my guess is that buyers see these as rental properties. I doubt many actually live in them. So with our tax dollars we are allowing "public servants" to become landlords. It's like another perk on top of their pension. |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 1:16pm
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If I'm not mistaken, the homes available for this program are "owned" by HUD via foreclosures, etc.. I can tell you from personal experience that you don't have to be a policeman or fireman to buy a HUD owned home for 50% off "their" established value. It's commonplace..... per HUD's web site, in May '12, the last two Middletown properties sold for 36% and 23% of their assessed "tax" values.
Again, Ms. Viv has a habit of "leaving things out" if they don't tie in to her "personal" agenda. GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 7:27pm
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Viv, |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 7:36pm
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If I'm not mistaken, the homes available for this program are "owned" by HUD via foreclosures, etc.. I can tell you from personal experience that you don't have to be a policeman or fireman to buy a HUD owned home for 50% off "their" established value. It's commonplace..... per HUD's web site, in May '12, the last two |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 8:32pm
 I just posted the numbers
If you don't to, don't...... and you don't need to. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 9:57pm
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It is my understanding that 75% of police and firefighters live out of Middletown anyway. So why in the hell would they want to but a house in Middletown under it's current situation? Pacman  |
Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jun 08 2012 at 11:54pm
Why the hell would anyone want to buy a house here is the question Pacman. Wish I would have thought of it before I took the plunge "again"
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Pacman wrote:Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 2:03pm
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If I'm not mistaken, the homes available for this program are "owned" by HUD via foreclosures, etc.. I can tell you from personal experience that you don't have to be a policeman or fireman to buy a HUD owned home for 50% off "their" established value. It's commonplace..... per HUD's web site, in May '12, the last two Middletown properties sold for 36% and 23% of their assessed "tax" values.
Again, Ms. Viv has a habit of "leaving things out" if they don't tie in to her "personal" agenda. Those on this blog are fully aware of the million dollars that have been wasted by the city on their real estate ventures. I don’t need to spin the facts…I just posted the numbers. Prove to me that our current learship has wasted millions on their real estate deals! If you state such things as fact, back it up with facts. I’ll accept that. I have no doubt that your message board “cronies” will agree with you, but that proves nothing. Come on… back it up with facts. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 7:11pm
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Manchester, the Thatcher portfolio. A lost leader right goose? The $5 Mm for giving Doug McNeil infrastructure funds which the Atrium did not need from the city street funds, the previous downtown effort, Act 1, that was with a roof, that became Act 2, without a roof, that became Act 3, a wasteland, that is now Act 4, a wasteland with an alleged Cincinnati State branch with 5 students. A golf course, an airport and accompanying hangers...hmmmm. that's about $9 Mm.
------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 7:35pm
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greygoose, I attended a city council meeting about a year ago where the a presentation of NSP fund distribution was made by Mr. Adkins. Unfortunately, there was no chance to ask questions or make any comments during the meeting. What struck me from that presentation was how federal programs encourage spending money and taking losses while having such a small impact. Mr. Adkins stated in that meeting that HUD encouraged them to take losses on rehab and resell property of at least $45,000 per unit!!! That didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't now. I understand your point about out-of-state banks and landlords who won't fix their properties (and I agree that something needs to be done), but when you see the kind of short-sighted management of other funds by city government, you wonder what the priorities are. Government is not about profit, it's about return on investment; the most benefit for the most people with the funds available. When you depend on government funding and then spend them in such a haphazard manner, you threaten the credibility and trust of local officials. Acclaro's post above is an excellent example of wasted efforts in Middletown and why there is so much distrust of any plan that proposes to take more money from taxpayers and property owners. Rebuilding that trust is going to take time and transparency that, to this point, is not forthcoming. |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 10:13pm
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greygoose,
I attended a city council meeting about a year ago where the a presentation of NSP fund distribution was made by Mr. Adkins. Unfortunately, there was no chance to ask questions or make any comments during the meeting. What struck me from that presentation was how federal programs encourage spending money and taking losses while having such a small impact. Mr. Adkins stated in that meeting that HUD encouraged them to take losses on rehab and resell property of at least $45,000 per unit!!! That didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't now. I understand your point about out-of-state banks and landlords who won't fix their properties (and I agree that something needs to be done), but when you see the kind of short-sighted management of other funds by city government, you wonder what the priorities are. I agree that the program appears to be wasteful, but is it the fault of Middletown leaders? As I understand it, the city is just following the rules established for the program by the feds. Government is not about profit, it's about return on investment; the most benefit for the most people with the funds available. When you depend on government funding and then spend them in such a haphazard manner, you threaten the credibility and trust of local officials. Acclaro's post above is an excellent example of wasted efforts in Middletown and why there is so much distrust of any plan that proposes to take more money from taxpayers and property owners. Rebuilding that trust is going to take time and transparency that, to this point, is not forthcoming. I’m not sure why “following the rules” should promote distrust. In my eye’s, questions should be asked of the federal government concerning their guidelines. On the surface, I would agree that they appear out of touch with reality. However, do they know something that we don’t know? Could it be that it is better to lose $45,000 on one house than to allow for that same, abandoned, house to bring down the property values of “every” house on the street. Regardless, I don’t see where city officials are doing anything other than following the rules. What am I missing? ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 11:11pm
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GG...you are missing the crux of the argument. 100% of the NSP money is centered on Main Street and taken from areas that need it more in what was once, ward dichotomy and separation. Your missing the fact the city gave up on downtown and suddenly, when the two Mulligans were elected, and what has always been a priority for Mr. Kohler, making Middletown a warm and fuzzy version of Lebanon v. 2.0. Your missing the city is a major holder of real estate, not exactly a core competency for a municipality correct? Your missing the city has taken funds from the street fund since 1986, to use for other purposes (and you advance destroying houses is an answer to overcapacity when infrastructure looks like Croatia or Syria?). You miss the point the city and council did away with the ward system to stack council with MMF'ers. You missed the fact what MMF did that---so the money would be consolidated on Main Street. I ask you, as you ask Vivian Moon many questions. Why is the city investing in downtown, version 5.0, when all other efforts have failed? is it because council members have vested interest in Main Street for some bewildering coincidence? You are missing quite a bit, most importantly, an open and objective mind in my opinion. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Jun 09 2012 at 11:32pm
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greygoose, It isn't just that the program is wasteful. The very notion that the "rules" allow for that waste is the reason no one has any trust in government. One house isn't going to raise the property values of an entire block!!! Instead of using that money to leverage renovation on the entire block, now you have one house with a value of $75 -$80k on a block of $35k houses. That won't lift the property values on the block and it also makes it impossible for the purchaser of said house to resell without taking a substantial loss! I always have a problem with the excuse of "those are the rules" as justification for wasteful, inefficient government spending. Effective and efficient government is the goal; if there are rules that interfere with that goal, they need to be changed!!! Quite frankly, it IS the fault of city leadership to continue to operate under such a wasteful set of rules. Real leadership would be going to HUD officials and saying " Here is our plan to use these funds where and how they will best serve our community needs. What do we have to do to get this plan approved?" If the only goal is to get more money from the federal government without regard to its use, then city leaders have succeeded. I, for one, don't consider that success or leadership! |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 12:16am
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Show me..... show me where 100% of the NSP money is centered on Main Street. Prove to me that is happening and you will have made progress with me. If you don't, you've further proved my point that "facts" aren't needed on this board if you repeat the same mantra enough times.
Contrary to your current belief, I am open to the idea. All that I ask is prove it to me. Typing the words "Perry Thatcher Portfolio" does prove anything to me. Give me something with some meat on the bones. Prove to me that 100% of the NSP money goes to Main Street and you will have accomplished something. Just provide me with some proof..... I've been asking for the same thing three damn weeks and I'm told that I'm missing the crux of the argument. Again... Provide Proof and I might start taking everyone's theory's more seriously. Until then, its just more BS to me. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 1:10am
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I’m not sure why “following the rules” should promote distrust. In my eye’s, questions should be asked of the federal government concerning their guidelines. On the surface, I would agree that they appear out of touch with reality. However, do they know something that we don’t know? Could it be that it is better to lose $45,000 on one house than to allow for that same, abandoned, house to bring down the property values of “every” house on the street. Regardless, I don’t see where city officials are doing anything other than following the rules. What am I missing? |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 1:36am
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I'd love for Grey Goose or any other City shill to cite where the Code of Federal Regulations states that NSP grantees could lose say $45,000 per individual housing project. Back in 2009 it was Doug Adkins who claimed that HUD had no objection to losing $75,000 per individual housing project. Where does this provision exist Grey Goose?
Nelson Self |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 1:42am
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I'm proud of you Ms. Viv. I finally got you to state an OPINION. I can handle anything that you throw out there if you state it as an opinion. It's a shame that this is your last post to me. I guess I'll never get that answer about Nelson & Associates.
In all seriousness, I have done enough "venting" for a while. Since you posed it as an opinion, I am compelled to look into the HUD program a little deeper. I am on record that I don't like the idea on the surface. Now it is time to figure out if it is a Middletown or a HUD issue. If I find that Mr. Adkins is throwing that kind of money away without good reason, I will jump off of his bandwagon so fast that it'll make your head spin. Until then, Go Doug! Tear 'em down! ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 10 2012 at 7:44am
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TonyB, GreyGoose Your research is flawed. Did Mr. Adkins invent the wheel also?....mercy
Mr. Adkins didn’t discover the 54% rule or any thing else for that fact. As I stated before Mr. Kohler had used the 54% rule long before Mr. Adkins ever came to City Hall for rehabing several of the houses on |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 16 2012 at 6:14pm
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I have yet to find any documentation that references a 54% rule. Can you provide one? It may change my point of view. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 16 2012 at 7:00pm
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Well Greygoose
Go to work for HUD or build HUD housing and you will hear a lot of HUD slang.
 Mercy Greygoose is that the best ya can come up with? |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 8:46am
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Viv,
I am not trying to come up with anything other than what qualified the city of Middletown for the HUD benefits that it receives. I have seen the 54% rule referenced many times on this board but can't find a mention of it anywhere on the HUD website or any search engine for that matter. I know that 54% low to moderate income incomes qualified us but I don't know if 54% is the qualifying number. Mercy, Viv, give me a break...... I'm just looking for the facts! ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 9:36am
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Greygoose Yes 54% rule refers to the fact that 54% of the population in Just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done by City Hall. City Hall was able to request more Section 8 vouchers. How did that plan work out for them? The HUD funds need to be returned to the areas of GREATEST NEED |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 10:08am
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HUD Neighborhood Stabilization Program - Revolving Loan Fund
Thanks to the research of Vivian Moon and the probing posts of Mike Presta, we sadly learned how millions in NSP funds were somewhat wasted by Mr. Adkins and staff. Over the past 18
months we learned about $220,000+ purchase/rehab/resale projects. We were told by Mr. Adkins that it was fine with HUD if the City lost as much as $75,000 on any of these sweetheart deals.
Since it is noted by Mr. Adkins that most of his 10+ projects were finally completed, how much money did the City net from these sales? How much capital is in the NSP Revolving Loan Fund today?
Is not property demolition an eligible use of these loan proceeds?
Lastly, when Mr. Adkins speaks of cost efficiency, does he ever recognize the large amount of taxpayer HUD funds that were so cavalierly wasted by him?
Nelson Self |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 10:25am
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When I worked in the Planning Department I had several conversations with Mike LaRiccia and Nancy Petrunak from the HUD Cleveland Area Office regarding Section 8 vouchers. Never once did they tell me that it would be a simple process to reduce the number of vouchers without:
1) utilizing millions in CDBG, HOME and NSP funds to the best extent possible to successfully address existing housing and community development deficiencies; and,
2) documenting that the City of Middletown was/is making significant progress to ameliorate housing and community development deficiencies as stated in both the HUD 5-Year Consolidated Plan plus HUD Annual Action Plans.
Very little if anything has ever been said about the manner in which CDBG, HOME and NSP funds were extravagantly spent (squandered) over the past three years to achieve significant success in remedying long-standing problems.
Also, with the termination of the Inspection Group plus repeated difficulties with Nelson & Associates, it makes one wonder why Mr. Adkins had such a penchant for disposing of CONSOC. A person I will not mention badmouthed CONSOC incessantly before being transferred to a different position. One individual in public safety did likewise.
Nelson Self |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 3:31pm
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Lets try this one last time....... I understand that 54% qualified the city for the benefits BUT, is 54% the qualifying number? Could a city with 30% qualify? What percentage of low to moderate income families in a city qualifies it for the HUD bennies? ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 4:35pm
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GreyGoose - Lets try this one last time....... I understand that 54% qualified the city for the benefits BUT, is 54% the qualifying number? Could a city with 30% qualify? What percentage of low to moderate income families in a city qualifies it for the HUD bennies? GreyGoose I do not know of one other City in the State of HUD Funds should only be used for high crime high poverty areas of a city or areas of greatest need. If you applied the 54% rule to each Ward of Middletown separately you would find only the 1st and 2nd Wards qualified. I placed several huge messages with detailed research about this subject last year however I can’t seem to find it at this time. |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 7:15pm
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It amazes me that you have the ability to research like a Paralegal but can't answer such a simple question. Never mind; I'll find it on my own. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 8:29pm
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Based on HUD criteria, city administrators determined that all areas of Middletown are facing high foreclosure abandonment risk and that NSP programs should be administered on a city-wide basis. The city stated that NSP projects will occur in several different census tracts, with the vast majority of work being completed in areas with a foreclosure abandonment risk score of at least 9 on a scale of 1 to 10.
I counted 19 census tracts and all but 2 have a risk score of 9 or higher. The only tracts in the city listed with a risk score below 9 are east of Breiel & north of Grand and everything east of I-75. Based on those statistics, it would be irresponsible “not” to offer NSP benefits city-wide. ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 8:53pm
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http://middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3223&KW=HUD -
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 11:02pm
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goose: imo you should worry a lot less about trusting Ms.Moon's info and a lot more about trusting the actions coming from the city building
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 17 2012 at 11:51pm
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Greygoose and Ms. Moon: May I offer what should be an easy solution to the “54%
question”??? If memory serves (often a risky bet in the case of my
memory), the declaration of the entire city as a so-called “Slumville” occurred
at a City Council meeting in October of 2009.
All one need do is to pull up the City Council meeting workbooks for
that month (which I believe would be dated 10/06/2009 and 10/20/2009) and
peruse the staff reports for the appropriate legislative action. The minutes of those meetings may also yield
the information you are seeking. Normally, I can supply copies of Council workbooks, as I
routinely “save” them just to be certain that if I refer to them in the future I
am not getting information that may have “accidentally” been altered, and I
would be pleased to provide the aforementioned editions. However, prior to about a year and a half
ago, I foolishly did NOT save them to an external hard drive, and my copies of
the 2009 workbooks were lost when my old computer “died”. However, since Greygoose
has recently been elevated “Moderator”
status (after less than 100 posts) on this board, I feel certain that he has enough
clout with Mr. Adkins to obtain copies of these workbooks. (NOTE to myself: You
have NOT backed up your hard drive to the external hard drive in over two
months!!! Be certain to do so
tonight!!!) ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 5:13am
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GreyGoose Over the next few days I did a little research on the subject matter and placed phone calls to several council members. Mr. Josh Laubach was the only council member that returned by phone call. I explained to Mr. Laubach that I had serious concerns about Mr. Adkins plan to use HUD Funds for the Land Banking Program. That transferring HUD Funds to the General Fund and then transferring and using those funds as the matching funds for the land banking is nothing short of Money Laundering. I provided Mr Laubach with the following reasons for why the legislation should be removed from the emergency agenda of the June 19, 2012 council meeting: 1. The guidelines for the Moving Ohio Forward Grant Program clearly state that HUD funds can not be used as matching funds. 2. Mr. Adkins has not filed an Amendment to the HUD 2012 Annual Action Plan stating this substantial change in the use of HUD funds and requesting HUD approval. 3. This major amendment concerning HUD funds has not been before the public for a 30 day Citizens Comment Period. 4. HUD has not approved any changes to the HUD 2012 Annual Action Plan. Mr. Laubach stated that “Mr. Adkins has assured us that this is legal”. He said he was going to contact Mr. Adkins and get an answer to my concerns. I requested proof that HUD had approved Mr. Adkins plan. I have not received a phone call or an email from Mr. Laubach addressing my concerns. So here we are Greygoose the day before the emergency legislation for Moving Ohio Forward Grant Program in the amount of 1.3 million dollars goes before City Council and the City has not provided me with any information or proof that HUD has approved this plan. Yet you come on this blog and accuse me of just sitting around bad mouthing City Hall for no reason other than I’m frustrated. NO REASON? Then you need to go back and read this message again. I’m not frustrated…I’m mad as hell as I sit and watch what is going on at City Hall every day of the week. Sooo since you are such a close buddy to Mr. Adkins I'm sure you should be able to provide us with the letter showing HUD has approved this plan.
http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/commsvc/py2012aapdraft.pdf - |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 8:15am
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If I may make a suggestion, as I don't study HUD practices in detail, that you may wish to have HUD examine these practices directly if they are wrong? City council members really don't care to put the effort into examining details nor what is what is wrong or what is wrong. other thatn the statement you provided. Monroe made such reliance on the school treasurer as to what was right and wrong and paid the price in having the state run their school district. If Mr. Adkins is wrong, there will be a remedy, one would assume his job. But to state city council makes reliance on a trained attorney and his interpretation, and that's the end of that...well, that's the end of it. If deemed wrong, request HUD make an assessment. In my view, Obama and this whole waste of federal funds is appalling, wasteful, and has accomplished nothing. It seems to be the midas touch now is to tear down buildings under some false pretense less capacity inflates and protects property values. I'm more concerned and bewildered the Moorman's bought the PAC building Jim Verdon received hundreds of thousands to restore, and I thought he was leashing the building from the city. Moreover, I was astonished the forgiveness reference in the agreement was all over the terms. HUD should have people who know what is right and what is wrong. The city should know what is right and wrong and the PAC situation. Of course, I am making reliance the Middletown Journal is accurate....that may be a wrong asumption. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: greygoose
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 10:36am
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goose:
imo you should worry a lot less about trusting Ms.Moon's info and a lot more about trusting the actions coming from the city building Spider, Did you read my post? I understand that 54% qualified Middletown but asked if 54% was the qualifying number. Her refusal to answer such a simple question just confirms my suspicion that there is no such thing as the 54% rule. Regardless, the end of my post stated “Never mind, I’ll find it on my own”. In other others, I'm taking your advice. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe everything that comes out of City Hall. The problem is that every time that I really start digging, I find facts that are left out of the discussion. Did you know that 17 of 19 census tracts in this city had a foreclosure abandonment risk of at least 9 on a scale from 1 to 10? Did you know that the city stated that they would concentrate their efforts in those areas (in other words, no bennies for the east end)? All that I am saying is it is irresponsible not to discuss both sides of an issue. You lose credibility with those outside of your inner circle if you don’t. Ms. Viv’s recent post concerning Land Banking is a perfect example. On the surface, her arguments appear very plausible but logic tells me that Mr. Adkins, being an attorney, isn’t going to take steps that will put the city in legal jeopardy. Time to start digging again………… GG ------------- "If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got" |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 10:52am
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Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe everything that comes out of City Hall. The problem is that every time that I really start digging, I find facts that are left out of the discussion. Did you know that 17 of 19 census tracts in this city had a foreclosure abandonment risk of at least 9 on a scale from 1 to 10? Did you know that the city stated that they would concentrate their efforts in those areas (in other words, no bennies for the east end)? All that I am saying is it is irresponsible not to discuss both sides of an issue. You lose credibility with those outside of your inner circle if you don’t.
GreyGoose Did you even bother to read what was posted at this link? Do you know how to read the charts?
Are you telling me that you believe the Highland Historic District is a high crime, high poverty area? http://middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3223&KW=HUD - http://middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3223&KW=HUD |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 11:53am
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goose: glad that you are here, and find your posted info very interesting and enlightening. you make a good balancing addition to this forum with your approach and direction. I don't know the hud or legal definitions, however I remember watching the Council meeting where Mr.Adkins made the 54% statement. He mentioned that this % allowed him to use the fiunding wherever chosen, including the east end and the fprmer Towne Mall area. Then he mentioned that he was going to by-pass the troublesome high-crime, high poverty areas(specifically my business area of Crawford St--Moore St--Supthin St) in favor of the Highlands Historical District, the S Main Historical district, and of course, the area formerly known as our downtown. So--the worst areas were to be excluded in favor of the good ole boy network. I like Mr.A, and agree with a lot of what he is doing. He didn't create the Section 8 mess, and has promised to do what he can to fix it. I take him at his word. Council/Admin?--another story. Sorry that I can't tell you more or more specifics, however I did watch this long ago. Having watched whatever has gone down publicly over years, I see what is said by Ms.Moon, Mr.Self and Mr.Presta as reasonably accurate--like it or not. Of course--I could have some things wrong.
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Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 1:29pm
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greygoose:On the surface, her arguments appear very plausible but logic tells me that Mr. Adkins, being an attorney, isn’t going to take steps that will put the city in legal jeopardySorry but when I read that it makes me laugh.Someone digs deep enough they would find that everyone of our "SPINE:ESS ONES" would have legal problems.
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Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 1:41pm
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LMAO: 
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Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 2:38pm
Come on STINKY I mean Stanky cant you come up with something different? First its my Spelling,and now a pic of you. What does it mean?
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Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Jun 18 2012 at 3:36pm
I couldn't help it. A big heavy lunch from The Meadows and a hot day will do that to you! 
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