Does Ed Richter "get it"???

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   Council needs to clarify the ‘membership’ of its subcommittees
By Ed Richter | Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:55 AM 
When Middletown City Council set up several subcommittees last year to oversee various areas such as public safety, finance, housing, etc., they also invited public participation.
However, what council did not do was establish who were the subcommittee members and how the public was to participate. Over the past year, there have been some awkward moments when some citizens believed they were committee members and were voting on motions or other committee actions.
While its very important that there is public participation at our governmental meetings, there also needs to be a clear understanding of who are the members and what they can or cannot do. 
There may also be other issues that may also need to be explored, such as liability on decisions that they voted on should someone decide to file a lawsuit. Council members are covered as service on these subcommittees are part of their duties. However, that may not be the case for an interested citizen who started coming to meetings and participated by voting on something.
Council may want to consider developing rules or procedures on how the subcommittees are supposed to operate as well as how it will appoint its voting members and if citizens will be appointed as voting members or not. At the very least, council should officially appoint these citizens to these subcommittees so that there is no question of who is and is not a member.
If council does not want to go that route, interested citizens have the option of running for one of the four ward seats that come open at the end of the year. That way they can become a subcommittee member without any questions.

Permalink | Comments (3) | Post your comment | Categories: Middletown 

Comments

By Mike_Presta 
February 19, 2009 6:53 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Mr. Richter, but I must disagree. First, City Council did specifically appoint and publicly announce which Council members were to sit on which subcommittees, and in no case were there more than three appointed to any one subcommittee. This is a matter of record. Please review the official council meeting minutes, all reviewed by and approved by the full city council. However, now there seems to be at least FOUR council members on the “Finance subcommittee”, and there has been mention of the “council members who could not make it” to the subcommittee meeting, and the like. And please do not ignore Councilman Schiavone’s statement at the 2/17/2009 City Council meeting wherein he suggested referring the blighted property “rehab versus demo” issue to a subcommittee so that “we can meet more—as often as we need to”! (But don’t take my word for this, see and hear it for yourself by watching a replay of that meeting at this link: This episode’s permalink ! Mr. Schiavone’s statement begins at about 74:45 on the small timer below the lower left-hand corner of the video picture.) Now Mr. Richter, you (or anyone else) can try to tell me that FOUR, or more city council members meeting to discuss city business is a “subcommittee meeting” that can occur “as often as we need to”, but I think you will find that the Ohio Attorney General, a municipal law attorney, or any other reasonable person will call it a “unpublicized special meeting of City Council” intentionally mislabeled to avoid compliance with Ohio’s “liberally construed” Sunshine Laws. In fact, even the City Manager meeting with fewer than a quorum, and then meeting with other council members (also fewer than a quorum) to discuss the same items has been subject of Ohio Supreme Court Decisions. In State ex. rel. Cincinnati Post v Cincinnati 95-1803, regarding the very same practice, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that to find such games of “legislative musical chairs” to be allowable under the Sunshine law would be to ignore the legislative intent of the statute, disregard its evident purpose, and allow an absurd result!! (Once again, don’t believe me, read this important “Freedom of the Press” decision for yourself.) Also, before you close the above embedded link, listen to Mr. Schiavone again at 86:25 of the meeting, where he talks about City Council “administering” the HUD or NSP programs. This exemplifies one of the biggest problems with this, and with all councils since at least 1999: They do NOT understand their very own function! According to Middletown’s City Charter and the general laws of the State of Ohio, the City Council is a LEGISLATIVE body! Their job is to act on legislation and resolutions, appropriate funds, and approve budgets. They are specifically forbidden to “administer” ANYTHING! This and recent councils have insisted on trying to micromanage our fair city. If any of them wish to do so, they should immediately resign and then apply for an appropriate position. 

By Mike_Presta 
February 19, 2009 7:03 AM | Link to this
Mr. Richter: Since this feature would not accept a hyper-link (which I included as “This episode’s permalink“, please copy and paste this URL address: http://blip.tv/file/1787210 to go to the video of the 2/17/2009 council meeting. 

By Mike_Presta 
February 19, 2009 7:07 AM | Link to this
Mr. Richter: I am confused by the last paragraph of this article. Are the readers to understand that you believe the mere act of winning an election places a person above the law? 

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Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Does Ed Richter "get it"??? Posted: Feb 19 2009 at 7:15am
	Council needs to clarify the ‘membership’ of its subcommittees By Ed Richter \| Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 10:55 AM When Middletown City Council set up several subcommittees last year to oversee various areas such as public safety, finance, housing, etc., they also invited public participation. However, what council did not do was establish who were the subcommittee members and how the public was to participate. Over the past year, there have been some awkward moments when some citizens believed they were committee members and were voting on motions or other committee actions. While its very important that there is public participation at our governmental meetings, there also needs to be a clear understanding of who are the members and what they can or cannot do. There may also be other issues that may also need to be explored, such as liability on decisions that they voted on should someone decide to file a lawsuit. Council members are covered as service on these subcommittees are part of their duties. However, that may not be the case for an interested citizen who started coming to meetings and participated by voting on something. Council may want to consider developing rules or procedures on how the subcommittees are supposed to operate as well as how it will appoint its voting members and if citizens will be appointed as voting members or not. At the very least, council should officially appoint these citizens to these subcommittees so that there is no question of who is and is not a member. If council does not want to go that route, interested citizens have the option of running for one of the four ward seats that come open at the end of the year. That way they can become a subcommittee member without any questions. Permalink \| Comments (3) \| Post your comment \| Categories: Middletown Comments By Mike_Presta February 19, 2009 6:53 AM \| Link to this Sorry, Mr. Richter, but I must disagree. First, City Council did specifically appoint and publicly announce which Council members were to sit on which subcommittees, and in no case were there more than three appointed to any one subcommittee. This is a matter of record. Please review the official council meeting minutes, all reviewed by and approved by the full city council. However, now there seems to be at least FOUR council members on the “Finance subcommittee”, and there has been mention of the “council members who could not make it” to the subcommittee meeting, and the like. And please do not ignore Councilman Schiavone’s statement at the 2/17/2009 City Council meeting wherein he suggested referring the blighted property “rehab versus demo” issue to a subcommittee so that “we can meet more—as often as we need to”! (But don’t take my word for this, see and hear it for yourself by watching a replay of that meeting at this link: This episode’s permalink ! Mr. Schiavone’s statement begins at about 74:45 on the small timer below the lower left-hand corner of the video picture.) Now Mr. Richter, you (or anyone else) can try to tell me that FOUR, or more city council members meeting to discuss city business is a “subcommittee meeting” that can occur “as often as we need to”, but I think you will find that the Ohio Attorney General, a municipal law attorney, or any other reasonable person will call it a “unpublicized special meeting of City Council” intentionally mislabeled to avoid compliance with Ohio’s “liberally construed” Sunshine Laws. In fact, even the City Manager meeting with fewer than a quorum, and then meeting with other council members (also fewer than a quorum) to discuss the same items has been subject of Ohio Supreme Court Decisions. In State ex. rel. Cincinnati Post v Cincinnati 95-1803, regarding the very same practice, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled that to find such games of “legislative musical chairs” to be allowable under the Sunshine law would be to ignore the legislative intent of the statute, disregard its evident purpose, and allow an absurd result!! (Once again, don’t believe me, read this important “Freedom of the Press” decision for yourself.) Also, before you close the above embedded link, listen to Mr. Schiavone again at 86:25 of the meeting, where he talks about City Council “administering” the HUD or NSP programs. This exemplifies one of the biggest problems with this, and with all councils since at least 1999: They do NOT understand their very own function! According to Middletown’s City Charter and the general laws of the State of Ohio, the City Council is a LEGISLATIVE body! Their job is to act on legislation and resolutions, appropriate funds, and approve budgets. They are specifically forbidden to “administer” ANYTHING! This and recent councils have insisted on trying to micromanage our fair city. If any of them wish to do so, they should immediately resign and then apply for an appropriate position. By Mike_Presta February 19, 2009 7:03 AM \| Link to this Mr. Richter: Since this feature would not accept a hyper-link (which I included as “This episode’s permalink“, please copy and paste this URL address: http://blip.tv/file/1787210 to go to the video of the 2/17/2009 council meeting. By Mike_Presta February 19, 2009 7:07 AM \| Link to this Mr. Richter: I am confused by the last paragraph of this article. Are the readers to understand that you believe the mere act of winning an election places a person above the law?