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This is a Bad Idea, No Ward System |
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Pacman 
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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 Topic: This is a Bad Idea, No Ward SystemPosted: May 05 2009 at 3:42am |
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While I can certainly understand wanting to shrink Government, doing away with the Ward System is a bad idea all the way around. I fail to understand a group of Citizens even recommending this. The whole idea behind our government system is that it represents all of the people. Not just those from a certain section of the city or socio-economic background which is what you could end up with, if this should pass.
If you end up with 3 or 4 Council members from the East End and a Mayor how does that represent all of the Citizens of Middletown? This could very well end up being government by the almighty dollar, which is government as usual and not government by the people, which is what we should all be striving for.
Was this a recommendation of the Moving Middletown Forward Group? Was this the only recommendation to come out of The Charter Review Committee after 10 years?
FOLKS THIS IS A BAD IDEA FROM THE WORD GO, ABOLISHING THE WARD REPRESENTATION FORM OF COUNCIL DOES NOT BENEFIT THE CITIZENS OF MIDDLETOWN. IT MAY BENEFIT A GROUP OF THE CITIZENS, BUT NOT THE CITIZENRY AS A WHOLE.
Smaller council pitched by panel By Ed Richter Staff Writer 10:36 PM Monday, May 4, 2009
Smaller may be better for Middletown. If Middletown City Council agrees to place it on the Nov. 3 ballot and if the voters agree, local residents could have the opportunity to reduce the size of council from seven to four members, as well as the abolishment of the ward system for the purpose of electing council members. The Charter Review Committee voted 13-2 Monday, May 4, to make those recommendations to council. Casting the only no votes were members Wanda Glover and John Soppanish, both 2nd Ward residents. In a past meeting, Glover expressed concerns that dropping the ward system could prevent all areas of the city from having a voice and representation on council. Member Christopher Amburgey said he felt the people should make the decision if wards should be kept or not. During the discussion on the size of council, member Paul Nagy said the committee needed “to look at the what is going to be the most efficient form of government for the city.” The committee discussed sending multiple options to council, which will decide if it will accept the recommendations and place them on the ballot, ignore them, or to come up with their own recommendation. Member Mike Scorti moved to set the size at four members and the directly-elected mayor. A proposal by Nagy to require council to have a quarterly meeting that would offer residents a “dialogue” with council was overwhelmingly rejected by the committee. Nagy said he felt having such a meeting would build community unity by allowing residents to get some response from council on various issues. Currently, council allows Citizens’ Comments but does not respond to those comments at their meetings. |
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 6:45am |
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I agree Pacman. Maintain the 4 Ward system of representation. Here in Ward 3, the land of that pesky, fiesty Marconiman, I don't feel like I have a person who represents my views of how the city is handled. If you call him, he will help you if he can, but his ideas/priorities of what this city needs is certainly not in tune with what I see as needs. Even though we now have a Ward rep for each part of the city plus at-large reps, I have a feeling that no one is being represented on this Council regardless of where you live.( except, of course, the chosen few in the network) As has been said many times before- they don't ask us what we want, they tell us what we'll get.( and we all let them do it!) If Council wants to eliminate the 4 Ward system, you can bet that it is to their advantage over the citizens and will give them added leverage over the people. If they want it, it must be bad.
What really  's me, is the proposal by Mr. Nagy of the quarterly meeting with Council and the rejection of the idea by this "committee". The only opportunity we have, to talk face to face with these "leaders" is through Citizen Comments at Council Meetings. Problem is, they don't answer your questions and engage in dialogue. They listen/sleep (perhaps) and then tell you your time is up. When are we citizens suppose to engage them as a group with our concerns and get a reply? They don't have the Java Johnnies sessions anymore where you got to ask the Councilperson a question and get it answered.(maybe) They have it set up now where they don't have to (and won't) answer your questions. How egotistical can you get? These so-called citizens don't represent the people when they make a decision like that. Sounds like the majority of this "Charter Committee" is trying to protect the Council from having to answer to the people. To he-- with the Charter Committee people who voted that down. How can we get that issue before the people for a vote to force them to meet us face to face?
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 6:53am |
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Vet there is a way to force an answer to the people it is called the Recall Vote.
705.92 Procedure for removal of elective officer by recall.Any elective officer of a municipal corporation may be removed from office by the qualified voters of such municipal corporation. The procedure to effect such removal shall be: (A) A petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to at least fifteen per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election, and demanding the election of a successor to the person sought to be removed, shall be filed with the board of elections. Such petition shall contain a general statement in not more than two hundred words of the grounds upon which the removal of such person is sought. The form, sufficiency, and regularity of any such petition shall be determined as provided in the general election laws. (B) If the petition is sufficient, and if the person whose removal is sought does not resign within five days after the sufficiency of the petition has been determined, the legislative authority shall thereupon order and fix a day for holding an election to determine the question of the removal of the elective officer, and for the selection of a successor to each officer named in said petition. Such election shall be held not less than thirty nor more than forty days from the time of the finding of the sufficiency of such petition. The election authorities shall publish notice and make all arrangements for holding such election, which shall be conducted and the result thereof returned and declared in all respects as are the results of regular municipal elections. (C) The nomination of candidates to succeed each officer sought to be removed shall be made, without the intervention of a primary election, by filing with the election authorities, at least twenty days prior to such special election, a petition proposing a person for each such office, signed by electors equal in number to ten per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election for the head of the ticket. (D) The ballots at such recall election shall, with respect to each person whose removal is sought, submit the question: “Shall (name of person) be removed from the office of (name of office) by recall?” Immediately following each such question, there shall be printed on the ballots, the two propositions in the order set forth: “For the recall of (name of person).” “Against the recall of (name of person).” Immediately to the left of the proposition shall be placed a square in which the electors may vote for either of such propositions. Under each of such questions shall be placed the names of candidates to fill the vacancy. The name of the officer whose removal is sought shall not appear on the ballot as a candidate to succeed the officer’s self. In any such election, if a majority of the votes cast on the question of removal are affirmative, the person whose removal is sought shall be removed from office upon the announcement of the official canvass of that election, and the candidate receiving the plurality of the votes cast for candidates for that office shall be declared elected. The successor of any person so removed shall hold office during the unexpired term of the successor’s predecessor. The question of the removal of any officer shall not be submitted to the electors until such officer has served for at least one year of the term during which he is sought to be recalled. The method of removal provided in this section, is in addition to such other methods as are provided by law. If, at any such recall election, the incumbent whose removal is sought is not recalled, the incumbent shall be repaid the incumbent’s actual and legitimate expenses for such election from the treasury of the municipal corporation, but such sum shall not exceed fifty per cent of the sum that the incumbent is by law permitted to expend as a candidate at any regular municipal election. Ok Mr. Presta, how do we petition to have the Charter changed by petitions signed by the residents of Middletown.? Do you have the steps that are needed or can you point us to them? I can find how to get a Council Person recalled but nothing about changing the Charter by the Citizens.
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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409
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 11:03am |
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Pac & Vet....I agree with both of you. However, can anyone tell tell me how we can have less than seven councilmembers according to ORC 705.72. Am I missing something?
705.72 Council - number of members - term.
All legislative power of the municipal corporation organized under sections 705.71 to 705.86, inclusive, of the Revised Code, shall be vested in a council of not less than five nor more than fifteen members. In municipal corporations of less than ten thousand population, members of the council shall be elected at large; in all others they shall be elected from wards or at large, as determined by the vote provided for in section 705.03 of the Revised Code. The term of office of such members shall be two years when the council is elected by wards, and four years when the council is elected at large. At the first election in municipal corporations having three councilmen, each of whom is elected at large, the candidates having the two highest number of votes shall serve for four years and the other councilman shall serve for two years. In municipal corporations having more than three councilmen, the majority of such councilmen who have the highest number of votes shall serve for a period of four years and the others shall serve for a period of two years. When the council is elected by wards, the number of councilmen shall be in proportion to the population of the municipal corporation, as determined by the last preceding federal census as follows: a municipal corporation having not more than ten thousand inhabitants, five councilmen; more than ten thousand and not more than twenty-five thousand, seven councilmen; more than twenty-five thousand and not more than fifty thousand, nine councilmen; and for each twenty-five thousand inhabitants in excess of fifty thousand, the number shall be increased by one, but the total number of councilmen shall not exceed fifteen. When the council is elected at large, the number of councilmen shall be in proportion to the population of the municipal corporation, as determined by the last preceding federal census, as follows: a municipal corporation having not more than ten thousand inhabitants, three councilmen; more than ten thousand and not more than twenty-five thousand, five councilmen; more than twenty-five thousand and not more than fifty thousand, seven councilmen; and for each twenty-five thousand inhabitants in excess of fifty thousand the number shall be increased by one, but the total number of councilmen shall not exceed nine. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 11:21am |
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wow--I can't believe or understand the decisions/direction coming from the current charter review committee.
I find my views exactly opposite of the majority.
If you eliminate Council positions, start with the at-large positions, so every area is equally represented. Going "at-large" plays right into the hands of the big-money MMF group that has led us straight into the mess we see currently. Mr.Nagy's idea is both brilliant and necessary since current Council has abandoned their "Conversations With Council" mantra to listen to the concerns of citizens.
Our admin is totally out of control now.
They pay no attention to public opinion, are hiding numerous financial ,is-steps and lost/hidden $$, and are totally obsessed with their own welfare/survival.
We must ramp it up hard and heavy now and every day to bring about change and new, better faces controlling everything.
jmo
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 1:28pm |
From ARTICLE VI of Middletown's Charter:
The initiative and referendum powers are reserved to the people of the City on all questions which City Council is authorized to control by legislative action. Such powers shall be exercised in the manner provided by the laws of the State of Ohio." |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 1:54pm |
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Saw that, I am probably searching for the wrong phrase or term in the Ohio Code as I can't find anything there. |
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Perplexed
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Apr 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 2:05pm |
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Maybe some pending legal actions will shake the all-knowing senior level bureaucrat monkeys out of the trees at One Donham Plaza!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 3:02pm |
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Yea or Nay on this section:
731.28 Ordinances and measures proposed by initiative petition.Ordinances and other measures providing for the exercise of any powers of government granted by the constitution or delegated to any municipal corporation by the general assembly may be proposed by initiative petition. Such initiative petition must contain the signatures of not less than ten per cent of the number of electors who voted for governor at the most recent general election for the office of governor in the municipal corporation. When a petition is filed with the city auditor or village clerk, signed by the required number of electors proposing an ordinance or other measure, such auditor or clerk shall, after ten days, transmit a certified copy of the text of the proposed ordinance or measure to the board of elections. The auditor or clerk shall transmit the petition to the board together with the certified copy of the proposed ordinance or other measure. The board shall examine all signatures on the petition to determine the number of electors of the municipal corporation who signed the petition. The board shall return the petition to the auditor or clerk within ten days after receiving it, together with a statement attesting to the number of such electors who signed the petition. The board shall submit such proposed ordinance or measure for the approval or rejection of the electors of the municipal corporation at the next general election occurring subsequent to seventy-five days after the auditor or clerk certifies the sufficiency and validity of the initiative petition to the board of elections. No ordinance or other measure proposed by initiative petition and approved by a majority of the electors voting upon the measure in such municipal corporation shall be subject to the veto of the mayor. As used in this section, certified copy means a copy containing a written statement attesting it is a true and exact reproduction of the original proposed ordinance or other measure. Effective Date: 08-22-1995 |
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:22pm |
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In the last gubernatorial election (November 7, 2006), there were 15,426 ballots cast in Middletown, Butler County, and 2,744 ballots cast in Middletown, Warren County, for a total of 18,170 BALLOTS cast. The number of “people who voted for governor” may be somewhat fewer as some voters do NOT cast votes for every office or on every issue on the ballot. Ten percent of the total ballots cast would be 1,817. It is recommended to obtain extra signatures, since not everyone who signs is actually eligible. The recommendations range from 10% to 50% over the required number. This means that we would have to gather between 1,999 and 2,726 signatures. To accomplish this in time for this year‘s general election, we would have to submit the signatures by July 30. We have less than three months. That would be no small task. On the other hand, we can begin gathering signatures in anticipation of a 2010 primary, should one be held. (We would know at least FOUR months in advance of the spring, 2010 date.) If there is to be a primary, we could then submit our initiative at least 95 days in advance of the primary date. If there is no primary, we would then submit for the 2010 general election. Of course, if the some old faces are returned to council in November, it will be too late and we may as well have a “petition burning party” and, once the flames are blazing high, our children and grandchildren can throw their hopes and dreams onto the pyre as well! PS: If enough REAL interest is shown by THE PEOPLE, I will arrange for getting the petition forms. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Perplexed
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Apr 22 2009 Status: Offline Points: 315 |
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Posted: May 05 2009 at 7:26pm |
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Random messages from City Council members and Her Majesty Judy at tonight's meeting:
"Everything is great in our bustling metropolis!"
"Have no fear citizens, we're in absolute control and you'll love what we have planned for you."
"The future of Middletown is promising."
NOT!!! Wasn't it Neville Chamberlain who said "Peace In Our Time" after meeting with Adolf Hitler prior to the outbreak of World War II??
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 6:44am |
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Changing the Charter in this manner appears to be a more common occurrence than I thought:
A search on google found that many Cities have gone Thur this. I doubt that even if there was enough interest at this point that fall election in 2009 is doable. 2010 would be more realistic. Also if a recall is a serious notion it would be best to wait until after the 2009 election anyways as the 2008 election turn out was high and that would mean that a lot more signatures would be required. Waiting for the 2009 election to pass would make it easier as far as the signatures required for that type of action.
And who knows maybe on the Charter front the Council will get the message that doing away with the wards is not what the citizens want. In the mean time what issues would or should be put into the Charter, i.e. Term Limits, No Red Light Cameras, Limits on Section 8 and Public Housing, etc.?
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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 7:04am |
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I'd be interested in circulating a recall petition in the 3rd Ward. While we're at it, how about picking up recall paperwork for the school board too. Are we going to target all council members for recall or just certain ones? I say recall them all. Let's clean house with both the school board and council. Instead of going house to house on this, how about announcing a petition signing location for registered voters only, at various locations around the city, stating reasons for the recall. Think that would get enough people to meet the numbers? We know that there are enough angry people to sign especially in the 2nd Ward.- whether they're registered voters is another matter. Anybody?
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Smartman
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Joined: Jun 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 8:06am |
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I'd be first in line to sign a petition! As far as council goes, the 1st question to anyone considering running is, Do you own any section 8 housing. If the answer is yes, we can say bye bye now!
 For council and the school board, Are you one of Auntie Ann's followers? If yes see ya!!!! All of city council needs to go, no questions asked. School Board, Tyus is clueless, Andrews speaks for her husband Will, McNeil been around too long, and Sauter and Fiora are Annies boys!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 06 2009 at 6:00pm |
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Pac:
Please call me!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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