Someone Explain why so many Unions?

Once again you speak without knowing.

Your continued displays of hate leveled at Unions is obviously rooted in your own delusions about unions.

What is the Contract Language concerning the issues you brought up? Oh, you don't know! Then maybe you should find out and THEN speak.

 Your perpetual whining about the Union Workers only paying ? what ever portion of their Medical Insurance rather than the "normal' 25% you mention  is an example. How do you know than the Union somewhere did not waived raises, perhaps, in exchange for smaller Insurance contributions by the workers? Do you know they did not do that? maybe some other concession for better Medical.  It is about TOTAL Compensation, not pick and choose and complain the way you do!


In my tenure at AK, the Union on two different Contracts WAIVED any Wage increases in exchange for better Retirement Benefits. Now, please tell me what is wrong with that?


Total Compensation...look it up if you have to!

You are just a whiner!



P.S. Look up my Post.  In the first few I stated that my way of fixing Middletown would involve a 30% cut in Staff, including Union Workers. Cuts need to be made, Contractually LEGAL cuts.

http://74.125.113.132/u/serb?q=cache:0JKFcJNQGcIJ:www.serb.state.oh.us/sections/research/web%2520fact-finding/07-MED-02-0095.pdf+Middletown+oh+health+care&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

When negotiating, the city always has the option of not signing the contracts in each union contract discussion, don't they? How do other former union companies bust the unions and tell them either we reduce your hourly pay and you start paying more on your premium for benefits or we'll get replacement workers in here, train them and start them at $10/ hour? Been done before, right? If private industry can do it, why can't the city governments do it? Unions are good and justified if management and ownership is impossible to work for. Unions get a bad rap if they immediately start asking for the world as to pay and benefits, not realizing they are helping to "bleed the company dry". 8 companies and over 40 years later, I have never worked for a union company, but have been in them and observed the union environment. Union shops do have their little quirks about them.

The bottom like is, that some are so self involved, they can't see past their noses about issues that don't benefit them personally.

Waste idiot did nothing to answer my questions. Posting of the Health Plan was for what reason?

"Somebody has something better than me and I am mad!"  Waa! Waa! That is what it is all about! God it is so Childish!

There are problems in this City and if Staff has to be cut, Fine!  I am just sick of uninformed Idiots taking the conversation in a stupid direction.

The debate between myself and Waste Idiot started when he referred to Binding Arbitration (as mandated by State Law) when Unions and Cities could not come to contract Terms,as "unfair" to the Cities as they seldom won. Think about that.....The Man is calling something unfair because it doesn't go the way HE wants.

Could it be that the Unions actually are being reasonable in their contract Position such that the unbiased Arbiter rules in their favor?

My positon is pretty along the lines of Bobbie, but I can't get past the Jerks who do nothing but cry about the Unions. "The Unions get too much, Waa, Waa!"

One more thing....Buzz off, Waste jerk.


See, any one can be Childish.

missmisc.-Thank you for explaining the "inner workings" of the city building. This type of information should be reported to the citizens by the city manager in her reports or in the Journal by Richter and is usually omitted. It is appreciated when one of the actual particpants such as yourself reports on what is actually happening internally.

Bobbie, you are correct. Leaders and administrative people, including the secretaries, aren't part of the unions. I know there aren't very many secretaries, and I don't know the ratio of Leader(or whatever it's called) to the laborers. I don't actually know what the exact number of union people is, and other than the City Manager using the number of 63, I don't know what the exact number of non-union is. Still, the gist of the numbers is about 3:1. There are a bit under 400 employees right now; in the 380-390 range. Last years number of Police was around 120, Fire around 85, and Public Works around 100+. Taking out a few secretaries, and administration, it would be slightly less than 300. I don't know if there are any other union people not in those groups. This year I believe there are a bit fewer even. That is what I have come up with, and I do think it's pretty close.

Regarding, I think it was, Viet's comment of wishing someone would share information more clearly, I'm not sure it is the City Manager's role, but I'm not sure whose it would be either. Possibly Council, possibly the newspaper, possibly just some of the departments responding to requests for information on an as-asked basis. This is all public record, and actually any of you can go and ask for the numbers. Nothing is hidden. It does tend to be a bit hard to figure out though. But that's my opinion about balance sheets in general. (ha) I do wish that the paper would do some plain and simple old fashioned journalism style reporting ... here's the numbers,... and then write in a way to let the readers see for themselves. It seems like so often the reporting is done in more of an editorial fashion to make the city look bad, or the writer look good, but ends up without complete information. I do apologise if I'm showing any bias, I am trying not to, although I may be too close to my own words.