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I'm reporting, YOU decide!!

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=965
Printed Date: Nov 25 2024 at 2:16pm


Topic: I'm reporting, YOU decide!!
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Subject: I'm reporting, YOU decide!!
Date Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 4:36am

Yesterday (Feb. 12, 2009) I attended what was publicized as a “Meeting of the Finance Subcommittee” at City Hall. In attendance at this meeting were: Four members of City Council, the City Manager, the Clerk of City Council, the City Finance Director and two other city employees (from the finance department), and myself. Mr. Richter from The Middletown Journal was also in attendance.

It was my understanding that these “subcommittees” were originally created in order to gain input from the CITIZENS to the City Council. What I saw at this meeting indicated no such thing. In fact, I tried to stimulate discussion on the “problem” of the continuing subsidy (apparently of over $200,000 annually) by the General Fund to the Golf Fund; how much longer this would be necessary (until the golf debt is paid off in TEN years): and the fact that by then the Golf Fund would be deeply in debt to the General fund. I was told that "the golf course would've made money last year except for the "debt service". Then I was gently “dressed down” and given a short lecture regarding all of the good things that have been accomplished in town and told that we should be looking for “things to celebrate”.

Interestingly, about a short while later, a council member (Ms. Scott-Jones) reintroduced the very same issue, and a meaningful discussion ensued! So much for valuing “citizen input”! It is obvious that if you don’t have a VOTE on council, they don’t have interest in your input! This discussion reached the conclusion that I feared. The "debt service" mentioned above has already required "loans" from the General Fund in excess of $650,000, and by the time the debt is discharged, this amount may be in excess of $2.5 MILLION. All the other kids get to do it...oops...I mean every other municipal golf course in Ohio, except two, lose money every year. Conclusion: We better look into this sometime within the next 2,3, 4, or 5 years.

Before this meeting ended, someone asked: "who were the official citizen members of this subcommittee?" At this point, I stood up, and said that "That doesn't matter!" I then said that at the first of these subcommittee meetings that I attended, I was told that a QUORUM was "two of the three council members on the subcommittee." I said that at the same meeting it was stated that: "Only council members could either make or second a motion at these meetings." I said that since only a council member could make or second a motion, and a "majority of a quorum" is all that is needed to pass a motion, it is irrelevant whether there are any citizen-members or not. I added: This is an illegal meeting!

But I digress! My question to the citizenry is this: There was meeting of FOUR council member (an official QUORUM of the City Council), with the City Manager, the City Council Clerk (who appeared to be keeping minutes), and three members (all employees of the city) of the City’s Finance department! Was that a “Meeting of the Finance Subcommittee” or a “Special meeting of City Council”?  A secondary question: Why does city hall keep saying that they are all for OPENNESS, when they keep doing everything in their powers to meet to discuss CITY BUSINESS out of sight of the public?

PS: The four council members were: Mayor Lawrence P. Mulligan , Jr., Bill Becker, Anita Scott-Jones, and David “I will not run again” Schiavone.




Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 6:48am
Mike- I had a similar experience with the Street Repair Committee chaired by Becker. On the committee was Scott-Jones, Marconi, Duritsh, Gilleland, G. Smith, and various members of the public works staff. The few citizens on the committee, for the most part, never offered any questions or verbally participated. I asked questions about the budget and cutting positions, why certain positions paid so much, and why they needed two supervisors to manage five people in the Public Works Dept. Also asked why they were placing patch in water filled holes. All I got were some" I'd like to cut your throat" stares from Becker. Gilleland, Scott-Jones just sat there and Marconi was laughing across the way. Smith tried to answer a few of my questions with some type of glossed over jibberish. You're correct- they ask for citizen input on these committees, but they really don't want you showing up, or, if you do, just keep quiet. This is just Council's little PR game of "See, we tried to include the public". Sounds like you just fought the same old battle that I've experienced. It's INCLUSION in their offer to join a committee in the Journal, but it's EXCLUSION when you try to participate. They know we are from the "rogue outsiders" group and they hate us because we don't believe their crap, nor do we cower down to their self-imposed power. We are wasting time with these people. Throw 'em all out as their terms expire and clean out the deadwood in the city building through a new council/ new direction/new expectations/new attitude route.   


Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 7:04am
It is called appeasement, gentlemen and nothing else.  The City for the most part has no interest in Citizen input especially when you ask a question which is not delivered with a, "Middletown has a Bright Future" smile.
 
The City is not really interested in taking on the tough issues that it must, and hence we get things like Volunteer to work at City Hall and The Pride Committee who is going to include the I-75 project on their list. 
 
I think for the most part if you go to City Hall with anything more than a we want to organize a garbage collection party at Smith Park, you are basically ignored.  The City has little interest in hearing the truth from the citizenry, as this would eventually mean they would have to make some hard choices and actually do something.


Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 7:11am
pretty much the way it has been for years, and getting worse despite the promises of being open to everyone.
 
and they wonder why the citizens feel detached and refuse to support local govt.,also refusing to chip in more tax money(which they don't have to give anyway).
 
time to quit worryinbg about the golf course and selling assets.
we can sell everything, though in a few years it will still come down to unrealistic retirement/health care bennies still strangling the system(and then with nothing left to sell)
besides--prices are down pretty low now, and after sale the $$ will disappear
then we will have no $$ or assets
 
hey we are supposedly up $400,000, so what is the big issue?
 
Mike--sounds like an illegal meeting to me also
Any opinion requested from Mr.Landen?


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 8:24am

Mike

Thank you for taking the time to attend this meeting.
Your questions at the end of the post should cause all of us to ask a few more questions and get more involved in the business of the City. This sounds like an
illegal meeting to me also.

 

I thought they told us the Weather Wax debt was paid and that Weather Wax had ALMOST broken even this year? Now we find that they borrowed more than $200,000 from the General Fund. They don’t need 5 years to solve this little business problem.

Ermm Hmmm….so as the City ask for Volunteers and Donations to help clean up the parks and buy the paint, that the City can’t afford, the City gives $200,000 plus to Weather Wax and it’s not a big deal.



Posted By: Middletown News
Date Posted: Feb 13 2009 at 3:24pm
Mike, this indeed is disturbing news. Illegal meetings where city business is discussed, the great Weatherwax can't cover its debt service. What's next, we are bailing out AK and Atrium?
 
We need to start behaving like a small city with a mind toward progress instead of looking back at our rich past.


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Posted By: scrapmonkey
Date Posted: Mar 18 2009 at 3:43pm
Does anyone know how much or if these members are paid to be on these sub-committee's ? I agree these meetings sound more like council meetings than anything else.

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scrapmonkey

"Civilization begins with order,grows with liberty,and dies with chaos"~Will Duran


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 18 2009 at 6:35pm
No, they are not paid anything extra to be on these sub-committees.

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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012



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