Arsenic
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Manager
Forum Description: Discuss the city manager administration including all city departments.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6421
Printed Date: Nov 25 2024 at 10:05am
Topic: Arsenic
Posted By: middie meddler
Subject: Arsenic
Date Posted: Feb 13 2017 at 8:07am
| Hey Mr. Manager, I notice that you are fairly prompt in answering questions on this site. So since I asked this question a few months ago in a different forum and never got an response, I'll try here. What is the plan for the arsenic contamination in the City of Middletown wellfield? |
Replies:
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 14 2017 at 9:28am
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middie meddler Are you stating that you have seen testing results of above normal levels of arsenic in the soil or water at our wellfield? I thought we got a clean bill of health several years ago after the clean up of the wellfield with the State Super Fund money. |
Posted By: Douglas Adkins
Date Posted: Feb 14 2017 at 9:58am
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I'll respond to this but it will take a few days. Our time right now is being spent preparing for Judge Wall's services. That has to be my priority for the next few days. Thanks for your patience. Doug |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 14 2017 at 10:32am
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The clocks been running for months now. I'll try something less taxing for you. I'll give you the answer to this next one and you give me the question. Answer: It's being drilled right next to the two contaminated wells. It really shouldn't take you long to find the question (the category is "Costs a Million $).
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Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 14 2017 at 11:18am
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Not at all. Due to a blunder at the beginning of the cleanup and continued mismanagement by the city, the plume spread virtually unchecked. BTW middie meddler was an inside joke, I won't post under that again.
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Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Feb 14 2017 at 1:02pm
| Thanks for your insider information Matt. Like you, I was also forced out of city employment because I discovered too much about major waste and questionable administration of taxpayer's funds. I had to go to protect senior staff who were in charge before my arrival in January 2007. Matt, brace yourself for baseless insults and slurs to deflect the real issues at hand. People like VietVet, Vivian Moon, WhistlersMom, What A City, etc., etc., are people that you can trust. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Feb 14 2017 at 2:53pm
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Hey all, want to really open a can of worms here on the topic of pollution/contamination of metals in the soil? Here's one for you. IF, you were around Middletown in the 50's, there use to be a lead basedtestrack setup located right about where Buttercup Ct and the small business park is located on University Blvd as you approach Sorg Place I believe. (just down from Wildwood School on the same side) Have more in=depth information on this story if asked for. It is incredible, given the seriousness of the offense, that this was never checked out by the city. Lead based paintwas the only choice then.Latex paint hadn't been invented as yet. And then, we have the Dick's Creek fiasco/cleanup caused by the Armco pollutants that has been addressed but has it been resolved? The "No Fishing" sign has been in place for years at that location. And, of course, while on this subject, we can mention the infamous "Lake Middletown/dam removal/silt in river contamination" which cost the city 350 grand in fines from the Army Corps of Engineers a few decades ago. We still don't know who the city official was who made that money wasting decision to remove the dam before any approval was given. The city never did reveal the culprit. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 4:13am
His dear wife Linda and his children and siblings have to do that, not you! Sure, some of his staff may be deeply moved, but WTF "preparing" do you or "our time" is necessary? Just trying to decide who can take extra time off? |
Douglas Adkins wrote:Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 10:09am
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MattR We had a long discussion about the Wellhead Protection Fund several years ago on this blog when City Hall used these funds for the demo of the Orman Building. http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4910&title=orman-building-demo This is just another example of City Hall collecting money from taxpayers and using it for another purpose.
Then when we need to pay for drilling a new well....ooops...we have no money in the fund and therefore it must be paid for from another fund. |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 10:21am
| I was following that Orman bldg thread then. It was very hard to not join in at that time. You, Ms Moon, have no idea how close you came to the truth of it. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 10:29am
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Oh MattR If you read the paperwork it is evident that money from the Wellhead Protection Fund should never have been used for the demo of the Orman Building... Shell game is still alive and well at City Hall. |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 12:10pm
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 12:11pm
| Our current Mgr was at the heart of it. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 1:11pm
Quite rude of you. We don't know what the family has asked of him? Perhaps he has been asked to deliver a eulogy. And per his blog, Doug was on vacation when the death occurred,
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Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 1:19pm
| swohio75, don't throw rocks at my stained glass windows. |
Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 1:43pm
If you are trying to imply that I have some connection to Beau Verre, you are wrong again.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Feb 15 2017 at 2:16pm
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man o man--u have guessed pretty much everyone in town let it go I can't identify swohio though I probably know him but I appreciate his participation and info the guy seems honest and sensible at least he seems to only use one screen name(I could be wrong) Mr.Self--I appreciate your concern and info also my condolences to the Wall family and those close to him always stood up for my business in court and I thoroughly enjoyed his company outside of the courtroom a definite loss to the community I will miss him the rest of the conversations going are interesting enough can we srtay on subject instead of petty personal squabbling? probably not |
Posted By: Douglas Adkins
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 1:43pm
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I did, in fact, deliver one of the eulogies for Judge Wall today. I told you all before that if we kept to the issues, I'd keep responding back and forth. If this is going to get personal and if this is going to be nothing but disgruntled ex-employees trying to cause the city as much trouble as possible, then my time is better spent in other areas. Below is the information on the arsenic levels. Middletown’s drinking water comes from 13 groundwater wells. When tested last summer (2016) one of Middletown’s groundwater production wells had Arsenic levels above OEPA drinking water standards and was shut down as soon as possible. Keep in mind this is raw water coming out of the ground before any of the treatment process takes place. The well was a very low volume producing well and is in the process of being abandoned and replaced with a new well. Arsenic is a common, naturally occurring element in the earth’s crust. The main source of arsenic in ground water is natural weathering and erosion of rocks and minerals. Arsenic is common in Ohio soil and therefore may be present in Ohio ground water. (See article below.) The water treatment process Middletown uses to treat our groundwater (lime softening using solids contact upflow clarifiers) is effective in removing Arsenic if it is found in the raw ground water. If Arsenic (or any other contaminant) is detected in Middletown’s drinking water, it must be reported in the annual Consumer Confidence Report (CCR) required by Ohio EPA. Arsenic has not been detected in our drinking water (what comes out of the treatment plant) for as many years as the CCR has been required. In addition, no other Water Treatment Plant historical records indicate detections of Arsenic in Middletown’s drinking water. Our most recent test, as required by Ohio EPA, for Arsenic in the drinking water was on 1/26/17. There was no detectable amount in the sample. The City of Middletown regularly monitors our water supply for many contaminants and our drinking water consistently meets or exceeds all established water quality standards set by the Ohio EPA and US EPA. https://www.soils.org/discover-soils/story/ohios-high-soil-arsenic-levels-due-natural-processes |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 2:19pm
| You have been misinformed,Sir. The well was not abandoned but was used for weeks after the contamination had been reported to the city. In the follow up testing (which I insisted on prior to my termination for "meddling") a nearby well was also found to have elevated levels of arsenic. These are not trace levels. Not investigating why these levels are increasing in these wells is reckless. Drilling the new well next to these wells is foolish. You may add disgusted to disgruntled. |
Posted By: What A City
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 2:51pm
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Mr. Adkins: "I did, in fact, deliver one of the eulogies for Judge Wall today. I told you all before that if we kept to the issues, I'd keep responding back and forth. If this is going to get personal and if this is going to be nothing but disgruntled ex-employees trying to cause the city as much trouble as possible, then my time is better spent in other areas." Ok, fair enough Mr. Adkins. I am probably one of the biggest perpetrators on the subject of aggression toward some city staff and leaders on this forum but there is a reason for that as they have helped destroy my hometown, one that I care more for than they do as outsiders. I acknowledge I have my share of faults like everyone else and advertise those faults on many occasions if provoked or the city does something "really stupid". I'm going off topic here.......but I just have to mention this realizing the timing is wrong. (and now comes my tirade on the use of the word "disgruntled" by a manager in the workplace...........) I will apologize in advance for what is about to be written here.... I would imagine, without trying to speak for the participants you have labeled as "disgruntled", (God, how I love that word coming from an employer and the managers who represent that employer). This word is a pet peeve of mine and has been for over four decades in the work place. Some companies do everything they can from labeling to playing favorites to ostracizing to exclusion to outright targeting of the employee which, of course makes the employee feel unwanted and non-valued as well as scared as hell that they may not have a job tomorrow. THEN....THEN, those same managers who play the game of sabotage have the audacity at performance appraisal time to blindside the employee with no notification at all, and are told that they are on the cliff's edge as to keeping their job. The managers set the unwanted employee up for failure and to be targeted if they have the slightest differing of an opinion. If you play ball no matter how wrong the program may be, you keep your job. No dissention allowed even if presented in a diplomatic way. What ever happened to the phrase, "a fair chance" and the verbal warning followed by the written warning followed by termination routine? Ok.....that's it. Tirade over. Thank you for letting me vent about my pet peeve. Now, to the subject matter. Your explanation of the arsenic issue seems valid and well explained to me, but then again, I'm no chemist either. |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 2:59pm
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In a predictable lawyerly way, the concerns that many have stated about "downtown" deals continue to be diverted by city staff and blog shills. As others have mentioned, it's disingenuous for anyone to obliquely disavow any responsibility. Say whatever you want about former employees. When a blog participant has 40+ years of city planning, CDBG/HOME Program administration, home building, real estate and mortgage finance licensing/experience, they're well qualified to comment on what is/is not happening. Middletown has immense "downtown" and neighborhood revitalization needs despite the expenditure of millions in HUD and other funds. The only pertinent issues regarding Middletown's "downtown" revitalization are: 1) questionable quality and feasibility analysis of city staff project planning; 2) in some cases, amateurish city staff due diligence efforts as evidenced by the research of Vivian Moon; 3) questionable expenditures of city (taxpayer's) funds; and, 4) a record of little to no completion of projects begun several years ago. What does Middletown have to show for the expenditures of large sums of money? If/When idle "downtown" projects are completed, will they achieve the desired results of revitalization? There are many questions and few answers.
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Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 3:16pm
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Let's look at both sides... The city's view with its escape clauses: " .....II told you all before that if we kept to the issues, I'd keep responding back and forth. If this is going to get personal and if this is going to be nothing but disgruntled ex-employees trying to cause the city as much trouble as possible, then my time is better spent in other areas." Doug Adkins Paraphrasing Doug Adkins we have the citizens view with its escape clauses: " I told you all before (City bureaucrats) that if we kept to the issues, I'd keep responding back and forth. If this is going to get personal and if this is going to be nothing but disgruntled council and management employees trying to cause citizens as much trouble as possible, then my time is better spent in other areas." Middletown citizens have the right to know what and why their city government does the things they do. Its called government of the people, by the people and for the people. This kind of talk is only a setup for when things get hot and they want to take their football and run. Paul Nagy |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 3:27pm
| BTW: I think the City of Dayton would be very interested that you are planning to remove arsenic from your raw water with lime softening since you are selling them the precipitate for reprocessing into lime. I will give you the courtesy of informing them of this yourself, but I will be calling them Monday myself just in case you are busy or forget. |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 5:36pm
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In addition Mr. Manager, I'm sure that your staff informed you that you are using split treatment at your water plant. I will presume to explain to you that this means 20-50% of the raw water entering the plant is not treated with lime. And of course even if you did abandon split treatment, you would have to demonstrate the effectiveness of your plant in removing arsenic and do enhanced testing to ensure water quality. |
Posted By: Analytical
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 6:24pm
| Thanks for your enlightening comments, Matt. Stand tall and continue sharing the facts. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 6:48pm
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Interesting MattR--please explain how this is something that we can remedy and/or control. Water supplies everywhere are a vital concern |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 16 2017 at 7:00pm
| We need to figure out what is happening in our wellfield; why is the arsenic level increasing in our wells? This means collecting more data and also taking active steps to ensure water quality. Getting ahead of these things is always the way to go rather than taking a passive role and waiting for the EPA to take you by the hand, or even force your hand. Frankly, I'm not ashamed that I was fired refusing to comply with what I was being asked to do. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Feb 17 2017 at 9:58am
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Spider We have known for years that the Aeronca site is a real threat to the wellhead area. How many times times did Gary Barge go before City Council over the years requesting testing and clean up of the Hydraulic Canal because of Aeronca water being piped into the canal. City Hall stated that they did not have the money for testing or clean up...however...later City Hall removed $600,000 from the Wellhead Protection Fund for the demo of the Orman building. Just another can kicked down the road to be solved at a later date...
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Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 17 2017 at 10:36am
| The managers response to my question was filled with inaccuracies and structured to allow the reader to draw false conclusions. This is similar to what has been done regarding the Aeronca plume. The city took complete responsibility for the clean-up years ago. Now, contrary to public impressions of the project being under control, the plume has crossed the hydraulic canal and the carcinogens are infiltrating the soil of the adjoining neighborhood. |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 18 2017 at 1:31pm
| Bottom line, as was made clear to me in the meeting I attended where I was fired, the illusion of competence is more important than competence. Do yourselves a favor, use a high quality filter or bottled water. |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Feb 18 2017 at 3:41pm
| Everything I've said is easily documented. They count on ignorance and fear. Doing their jobs would be much easier than chasing down truth tellers. |
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Feb 18 2017 at 3:44pm
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MattR, I find this sentence to be a classic: "Bottom line, as was made clear to me in the meeting I attended where I was fired, "the illusion of competence is more important than competence." In 2007 and 2008 they said the same thing when they would constantly say, "Perception is Reality." My reply to that was that any magician or illusionist would love for everyonein their audience to believe that and any con man would do anything to have his victims believe it. Politicians, lawyers and others who speak like that are parading their lack of integrity. Thanks for your posts. pn |
Posted By: MattR
Date Posted: Aug 19 2017 at 12:26pm
| Looked over our most recent consumer confidence report; many errors and omissions. Confidence? |