VOTES FOR LEVY
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Schools
Forum Name: School Tax Issues
Forum Description: Discuss past, current and upcoming tax issues.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5740
Printed Date: Nov 21 2024 at 2:49pm
Topic: VOTES FOR LEVY
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Subject: VOTES FOR LEVY
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 6:24am
|
Posted: ELECTION 2014 Votes to be certified this week
By http://www.journal-news.com/staff/michael-d-pitman/" rel="nofollow - Staff Writer Unofficial elections results from the May 6
primary election show the bond issue and 0.26-mill permanent improvement levy
passing by total of 18 votes — up by 50 votes in Superintendent Sam Ison declined to talk in
detail about the possibilities of what could happen today. “I’m happy the process is moving forward
toward the official certification of results and grateful for all the votes in
support of the district,” he said. At stake is $40 million from the Ohio
School Facilities Commission. If
the levy does not pass, the district would lose out on this funding from the
Ohio Schools Facilities Commission and go to the back of the line in attempts
to get additional funding. The
Butler County Board of Elections on Monday validated 308 of 344 provisional
ballots cast in the primary election. Six of the 59 provisional ballots from There are six uncounted provisional and two
uncounted absentee ballots in Today, If the success or failure of the Ashley Baumgarten, a While she said she’s a “firm believer” in
doing what’s best for the children of Middle school principal Michael Valenti
previously told the Journal-News the school, which houses 830 students in
grades seven and eight, is frequently in need of repairs, and is “not a healthy
situation” for the students. District officials said it will cost less to build
a new middle school than to repair the existing school. Source: County boards of elections
|
Replies:
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 5:53pm
|
Posted: Recount still possible for
|
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 6:06pm
| I think I just heard them cue the plus-size singer. just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 6:19pm
|
What you heard was the wind of For Sale signs being planted, and phone calls being made to Columbus. Stay tuned. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 6:43pm
| Yeah, that extra $100 + per year in taxes is sure to be the tipping point. All the calls to Columbus won't stop the bulldozers. just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 6:55pm
|
Moore, you said you were a retiree making less than $35,000 yearly, so I really don't value your opinion frankly, nor your avocation. An injunction will put the bulldozers at bay. \ Stay tuned. Anyone with any sense should cancel the Journal for its with-holding of materially relevant school data until after the election. Dishonest . ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 8:28pm
The money is irrelevant ch. The WASTE and ROI of the money is the discussion. We, who are now forced to pay, will get nothing in return. Neither will the levy supporters who will never admit the losing cause. Congratulations chmoore1. You and your supporters have apparently won the battle......hopefully, not the war. IMO, we will see more of the same failure continue in the new schools as well. A given. I still don't understand how the pro-levy people can look at the numbers after several decades and support this pathetic excuse for a learning system. The numbers, time and time again, show a last place finisher with no upward mobility. Most people who go to the track don't place money on the last place horse, deemed the traditional loser in a race. The new elementary's have had enough time to show that the new school theory is the right one, yet, they have shown us nothing but the same stagnation. Your new middle school and addition to the high school will show no progress either 5-8 years from now. Safest bet one could make. It is taxpayer money that will be totally wasted..... just like the elementary's. You and your new school friends should be happy in your new found success. You can be sure that close to half of the voting pool is in disagreement with your camp. You have just enough support to get you over the edge. Hardly a vote of confidence. You enjoy. Some of us cringe at wasted effort. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
chmoore1 wrote:Posted By: luke
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 8:55pm
|
"Tyus wanted the Middletown community to know school board members
understand how a district’s finances work and they wouldn’t sit around
and “watch us go into the hole.” This guy is a joke. Some school board member. He defaulted on his house, lost it, while financing another. And he is the one watching so the district doesn't go into the hole. God help us. The campaign was built on fraud. False statements on cost. Lied about the school matching funds going away. The fat lady hasn't sung and won't for a little longer. The battle is just beginning. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 9:24pm
|
Misguided malevolent Acclaro: you have me confused with someone else. I am not retired, but approaching the age; I would never state my earnings on this blog, but it has been above the adage of "salary equal to your age." And my goodness: your statement "Moore, you said you were a retiree making less than $35,000 yearly, so I really don't value your opinion frankly, nor your avocation." Isn't that quaint. My opinion means nothing to you because you think I'm retired and make $33,000. Just so you know, I don't value your opinion at all, being YOU'RE A NARCISSISTIC IDIOT! Start calling those state reps. It will take up some of your free time. However, it's not going to stop the bulldozers. Maybe if you chain yourself to a tree.... Just 1chmoore, proudly waving the MCSD banner. GO MIDDIES! Fired up, ready to go! |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 9:46pm
| Acclaro: umm, by the way, what is my "avocation"? just 1chmoore....fired up, ready to go! GO MIDDIES! |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 9:59pm
|
Moore; you may want to re-read your post to Viet Vet regarding your retirement claim and income earnings associated with the Homestead property tax cap. I knew you'd impeach yourself. You may be better served by calling the midwife as you usually summon a beckon for help, Marcia Andrew. You have no earthy idea what has been occurring behind the scenes the past four weeks. I wouldn't waste thirty seconds on a call to a state rep, but there has been a team assembled, and ready for war. Your trusted calculator won't help you in this battle. Better to put the cork back on the champagne. Pompous arrogance and over-reach has consequence. Release the hounds. It begins, and was prepared for several weeks ago.. There will never be another levy that goes unopposed with deep opposition, and funding. Those bulldozers will be going nowhere. Trust us. Now.....go find your post retiree Moore, that you discuss the Homestead advantage. There are many that have had enough of tactics used to bulldoze people over. It has ended. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 10:01pm
|
What were the LSAT scores by the way? ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 10:29pm
| Acclaro: my LSAT score was 180. Yours? (Got the bulldozer) "fired up, ready to go"! GO MIDDIES! just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 11:20pm
 ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 20 2014 at 11:43pm
|
Moore: Posted: Mar 28 2014 at 7:15am
VV: it's been nice funnin' with you. I have been retired for a
number of years, and I understand the heartaches that come along. I,
honestly, never thought that life would be this tough at my age. The
All-American dream has crumbled in the last decade, and it seems that
life has become a nightmare. On a serious note, have you taken
advantage of the Homestead Act, now that you're 65? It reduced my taxes
by about $500/year. See you in the next post. just 1chmoore No time for pontification Moore, only time to stop bulldozers. 'Anything can be found on the internet." 180. Doubtful. 95 percentile. Yale worthy. Suspect you'll show up next election....maybe even when the city gets its turn and teachers need a raise.  ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 12:02am
| Acclaro: Ok. I'm in my 70's. Been retired for some years. Nothing in there about my income. Just said that I saved $500 year on property taxes. Nothing about a "cap". You can count on my vote for the next school levy. Probably not (almost certainly) on the city. I actually agree with you on that. Horrible situation here in the city. Still don't see why you think that being retired negates my opinion. You need to work on that. I do agree with you also on no time to bloviate....I need to get my earth moving equipment in running order. Let me know which tree you'll be chained to---I'll leave that one til last. Trying to be helpful in my old age. Your buddy,just 1chmoore. See you at the polls! |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 4:35am
|
Updated: School board approves five-year forecast
By http://www.journal-news.com/staff/rick-mccrabb/" rel="nofollow - Staff Writer Imagine
predicting it for That’s what school treasurers face around
the state when they produce their district’s five-year financial forecast, she
said. On Tuesday night, the board unanimously approved the financial form, but
not before the Rev. Greg Tyus, board vice-president, asked Kelley to clarify a
few points. Tyus was upset by how news reports
characterized the forecast after it was presented at an earlier school board
meeting. Thorpe explained the district should end this fiscal year with a cash
balance of more than $2 million. That number is expected to grow to $2.7
million in 2015 and $2.4 million in 2016. But the next two years, because of sharply
higher employees’ retirement and health insurance and lower property values
throughout The property valuation for the school
district was $975 million in 2008, and is expected to drop to $711 million this
year, she said. Thorpe said general property tax revenue used to be the fastest
growing assessed tax valuation. However, in recent years, she said, this source
of revenue has been decreasing steadily due to changes in property valuation in
the city. Thorpe said property values will be appraised this year in Thorpe said she’s predicting a 2 to 3
percent drop in property values in Meanwhile, she said, the revenue will be
fairly stagnant because it’s based on “what we know right now,” she said. Thorpe said the first year of the forecast
will be more accurate than the fifth year. She said that’s a typical five-year plan
for school districts, and added that 98 percent or 99 percent of the districts
in the state have negative forecasts. She said operating in the red is “not
that alarming” in school finances. Tyus wanted the She
said one of the “unknown majors” is what impact the Affordable Care Act will
have on the district. Also, she said, if for some reason, the
district’s bond issue fails, and a new middle school isn’t built, the district
would have to budget $1 million to replace the roof. This fiscal year, she said, more students
left
|
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 6:11am
|
Let's see, operating/legacy costs going up and poorly planned for ahead of time.....revenue in the form of property taxes going down. Don't even think about another dam levy for operating costs. You just invaded the people's wallet for your dam bond levy. One bilking at a time school people. So how's that "new schools will yield higher property value" theory working out for you now? Wrong again. New elementary schools have done nothing to attract new people nor contributed to higher property values or eye-opening results . Middletown's reputation of receiving a poor education trumps all the bells and whistles you school supporters can come up with. Wrong again. Taj Mahal looking schools teaching in an ineffective manner still yields a poor result. When are you going to learn that school people? Mercy you're stubborn. School Board members, please explain to the people how the new schools and the direction your board has taken has made an impact for the better and how the taxpayer ROI has been well worth the expenditure. Property values down. Indicators down with no upward movement. Performance at stagnation level. Graduation rates at the bottom. School enrollment declining. More students choosing alternatives to being educated in this system. How do you explain what is and has happened here over time? ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 6:34am
ch: "You can count on my vote for the next school levy". Fascinating comment ch. For the record, and for my understanding, if I may ask, why did you vote yes on the bond levy? Were you satisfied with the academic/indicator performances of the district? Do you just simply support everything Andrew and the board tells you? Are you happy with the school ranking as to graduation rates or school state rankings? How about performance test results? Happy with that? Are you content to know that your property value, despite new schools having been built years ago, have not increased but rather are steadily decreasing? Are you content in knowing that families are enrolling their kids in systems outside the district giving a no-confidence type of message? What, pray tell, makes a person cast a vote of support for this district when it appears there is nothing but trouble in every category of consideration? WHAT BENEFIT ARE YOU GETTING OUT OF GIVING THEM MORE OF YOUR PROPERTY TAX MONEY? I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE METHOD OF THINKING FROM THE PRO-LEVY FOLKS. THERE IS NOTHING POSITIVE TO EXTRACT A YES VOTE AS I SEE IT. An analogy for you..... New building investing in the Middletown schools is like the people of Cincinnati investing in a new stadium for the Bengals during the Dave Shula/Bruce Coslet era during the 80's. They were the laughing stock of the NFL in those days, a proverbial comedy of errors each Sunday and a perrenial loser year after year, so much so that with the fans who did go, wore brown bags over their heads in shame. I see similarities here. Why reward stagnated mediocrity/failure with new buildings? Have they earned that request? ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 9:15am
|
There is a lot of hysteria on this board, so please consider some actual facts: The 5-year forecast is a process that the state requires all public school districts to update twice a year. Our 5-year forecasts have been discussed at least 4 board meetings every year (it is always presented first for discussion, then not coming back for a vote until the next meeting) and available on our website and the agenda for each of those meetings. Sometimes we discuss them more often, when changes in the key assumptions become known. Nothing was hidden from the voters. Annual audits also on website. The 5-year forecast addresses only general operating fund revenues and expenses; it does not reflect money raised by a bond issue that can only be used on capital expenses. The state requires public school districts to project revenue and expenses out 5 years, but only guarantees its own funding to school districts for one year (state budgets cover 2 years but this governor has amended the budget every year, as he is doing now). We cannot include in the forecast any increase in revenue unless we know for sure we will get it. But we must include in the forecast increases in expenses that we are obligated for. This process naturally produces forecasts with deficits in the later years. If you look back historically, you will see MCSD had deficits in the later years of its 5 year forecasts almost all the time, but the "forecasted" end of year negative cash balances have never come to pass. That is prohibited by law. Instead, the district has made continual and repeated rounds of budget cuts. The district has not had an increase in operating tax levy since 2005. The total tax valuation of property in the Middletown school district declined primarily because the state eliminated the business tangible property tax. This accounts for most of the reduction. The remaining decline in property values coincides with a nationwide recession. The district asked the voters to fund new buildings because the existing buildings are not adequate for the education needed to compete in a global economy. New/renovated buildings are not a reward for past performance or a guarantee of future performance. The campaign for the levy did not make such a claim; it is only one that the no voters throw up as a red herring to strike down.
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 9:34am
|
This is easy to comprehend Vet. Besides AK, the biggest employer in the city is MUM and the school district. Its driven by public sector employees, unions, that are making no progress in performance. As you correctly stated, its easy to move up when at the bottom of the barrel. But, neither residents nor employees want anything to do with Middletown. The school system is poor, its quite obvious, and money is wasted. What irks me is the dishonesty of the campaign. That will not be forgotten, nor will it not be reported. At the end of the day, over 55% of those voting YES, didn't even own property, hence, will see no pain in taxation. The district rounded up multiple partners that outsource services, to "sponsor" dances, and get parents together, forming YES blocks. Many MUM students voted, paying nothing for taxes. The city wants payroll tax to stay in place, from the school district. So they agree to round up YES votes. The senior citizens got their debt absorbed by city council deals, that traded unloading debt for seniors, for votes for city in future campaigns, coming next year, and the school district. As the reverend stated about it being a marathon, these campaign built on misinformation about cost, acceleration of payment, and state match funds "going away", was running in the background for years. It will only serve to move more residents out, including businesses, as enrollment declines, tax valuation worsens, and the cycle of destroying the property owner continues in Middletown. Frankly, wo in their right mind would own property in Middletown, already on a decline, knowing all these taxes are coming. How soon do you think raises will be coming for the MCSD? About a year. Then, the high operating taxation, as the district goes into the red. If you work in the district, city hall, or MUM, you don't care. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. The goal is to reduce the population to around 27,000. It will arrive. There won't be docs and attorneys filling existing practices today in Middletown in 10 years, they'll be in Monroe and Lebanon. It will be as shell of a town, built on public sector employees. Leadership failed decades ago, and what exists today isn't equivalent of entry level. With slight organization, and a month, the school levy would have gone down by 500 votes. Even with misrepresentations associated with receipt of $40 Mm, the levy failed by .5%, and some questionable tactics that will be reviewed. Interest rates are still low, a great time to move. Or, appeaql that property tax bill by March end of 2015. There is consequence for distortion. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 11:29am
| VV: here it is, bottom line: Vail/MMS needs to be replaced. NOWHERE from ANYONE on the "no" side could (or would) give their plan on what to do with the 90+ year old building. All have been asked, no one has come up with the solution----even total renovation costs nearly as much as the new building. The only thing I saw on here was "let's do nothing" for the next x number of years. I don't state that new buildings are needed for learning. Don't try to hang that on me. I am not, nor ever have been, a paid employee of MCSD. Don't try that angle either. I do support our schools, but have no vested interest or ulterior motive other than MMS needs a solution. You can't stick your head in the sand and ignore it. That's my take, whether you value my opinion or not (Acclaro). Bulldozers "fired up, ready to go"! GO MIDDIES! just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 11:54am
|
"The district has not had an increase in operating tax levy since 2005." WAAAY BACK IN 2005 HEY. WELL THEN, BY ALL MEANS, IT IS TIME FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD AND SCHOOL SUPPORTERS TO START THE CAMPAIGN FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDS. LET'S CONTINUE TO TAX THE HELL OUT OF THE VERY PEOPLE WHO CAN ILL AFFORD MORE TAXES. "The remaining decline in property values coincides with a nationwide recession" NOT TO MENTION WHAT THE CITY LEADERS AND THE POOR REPUTATION OF THE SCHOOLS HAVE DONE TO THE DEMAND FOR PROPERTY IN MIDDLETOWN. NEITHER ENTITY HAS EXACTLY HELPED STRENTHEN THE VALUE ON PROPERTY HERE. NO ONE WANTS TO LOCATE TO MIDDLETOWN NO MATTER HOW MANY NEW SCHOOLS YOU BUILD MS. ANDREW. "NEW" ISN'T THE ANSWER TO UPGRADING PROPERTY VALUES. QUALITY WITHIN, WHETHER NEW OR OLD, IS AN ANSWER THAT WILL START THE ATTRACTION. "The district asked the voters to fund new buildings because the existing buildings are not adequate for the education needed to compete in a global economy" TELL THAT TO THE OLDER COLLEGE INSTITUTIONS THAT DO UPSCALE EDUCATION IN VERY OLD BUILDINGS. I LOOK FOR DUKE, HARVARD AND YALE TO TEAR DOWN THEIR OLD BUILDINGS ANYDAY AND BUILD ALL NEW TO IMPROVE THEIR LEVEL OF EDUCATION BASES ON THIS OBSERVATION. THE PROBLEM WITH THIS STATEMENT IS THAT, BE IT NEW OR OLD, THE EDUCATION PROVIDED BY THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY IS PERCEIVED AS NOT ADEQUATE TO "COMPETE IN A GLOBAL ECONOMY". CAN'T EVEN COMPETE ENTERING THE FIRST YEAR OF COLLEGE ACCORDING TO THE UNIVERSITY OPINIONS (REFERENCE THE REMEDIAL PROGRAMS CONDUCTED BY COLLEGES FOR FRESHMAN STUDENTS FRESH FROM HIGH SCHOOL), MUCH LESS FURTHER ON UP THE ROAD ENTERING THE WORKING WORLD. NEW SCHOOLS AREN'T THE ANSWER FOR PREPARATION FOR THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, IT IS WHAT IS TAUGHT IN THOSE NEW (OR OLD) SCHOOLS THAT MAKE OR BREAK THE READINESS OF COMPETITION IN TH GLOBAL ECONOMY. YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO SELL THE "NEW SCHOOL CONCEPT AS THE ANSWER" ROUTINE. DOESN'T WORK FOR SOME OF US. "New/renovated buildings are not a reward for past performance or a guarantee of future performance." AHH, THE OLD "DISCLAIMER" TO COVER CONTINUAL PERFORMANCE ISSUES AND THE "WE'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE TO THOSE WHO ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR OUR NICE NEW SCHOOLS IF THEY DON'T PRODUCE" ROUTINE. THEN WHAT ARE WE GETTING FOR OUR MONEY IF THE OUTCOME IS NOT SOMEWHAT ASSURED OF SUCCESS? BASED ON YOUR STATEMENT, NEW BUILDINGS ARE A CRAP SHOOT AS TO WHAT WE MAY SEE DOWN THE ROAD. "The campaign for the levy did not make such a claim; it is only one that the no voters throw up as a red herring to strike down". "The campaign for the levy did not make such a claim MIGHT BE TRUE FOR NOW, BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, YOU HAVE TO SHOW SOME PROGRESS AND TAKE OFF THE TRAINING WHEELS ON THE BICYCLE MS. ANDREW. YA CAN'T RIDE THE "WE NEED YOUR HELP" TRAIN FOREVER WHILE CONTINUING TO SHOW US NOTHING IN RETURN. YEP, WE THROW UP "RED HERRINGS"  WHILE YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE THROWS UP THE OLD PASSIFICATION AND APPEASEMENT PROGRAM INUNDATED WITH EXCUSES, EMPTY PROMISES, THE PROVERBIAL "WE ARE HOPING THE NEXT TIME WILL BE BETTER" AS THE EXCUSE TRAIN KEEPS ON A ROLLIN" WITH AN ENDLESS LIST OF REASONS WHY YOU FAILED TO ACHIEVE THIS TIME GIMMICKS. GETTING OLD AFTER THREE DECADES, REALLY IS. WE KEEP THROWING MONEY AT YOU AS YOU REQUEST AND KEEP GETTING THE BLACK EYE EVERY TIME AS TO OUTCOME. WHY? ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME TO SEE SOME REAL IMPROVEMENT WITH THIS DISTRICT? THE FAILURE TRAIN CAN'T RUN FOREVER. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 12:06pm
|
ch: "I don't state that new buildings are needed for learning. Don't try to hang that on me" NO, BUT OTHERS HAVE. ch: "I am not, nor ever have been, a paid employee of MCSD. Don't try that angle either" NOPE, DIDN'T DO THAT EITHER. ch: "I do support our schools, but have no vested interest or ulterior motive other than MMS needs a solution" I UNDERSTAND YOU SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS. YOU HAVE MADE THAT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS .....WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS, GIVEN THE ENDLESS ARRAY OF INFORMATION THAT PLACES THE SCHOOLS IN AN UNFAVORABLE LIGHT?? FROM PROFICIENCIES TO INDICATORS TO PEOPLE TAKING THEIR KIDS OUT AND GOING ELSEWHERE TO POOR GRADUATION RATES TO CLOSE TO LAST PLACE WITHIN THE 618 OR SO DISTRICTS IN OHIO....... WHY ch........WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THE SCHOOLS? THERE IS NOTHING POSITIVE TO SUPPORT JUDGING BY THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE. IF THE COSTS ARE SIMILAR AS TO REPLACING VAIL WITH A NEW SCHOOL AND RENOVATING VAIL, I SAY KEEP THE OLD STRUCTURE, EQUIP IT WITH ALL THE LATEST BELLS AND WHISTLES AND RETAIN A LITTLE HISTORY ALONG THE WAY. ACTUALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER NEW OR OLD. THE RESULTS ARE THE SAME FOR THIS DISTRICT........POOR. HOW THEY DO THINGS IS THE PROBLEM, NOT WHERE THEY DO THESE THINGS. JMO THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING. I ENJOY DEBATING WITH YOU. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 3:07pm
| The MCSD levy, if it passed, did so with the slimmest of margins. It also did not pass based upon citizens vote of confidence, rather, its longstanding, older residents that wanted to remain locked in the past, and hang on to memories of Jerry Lucas making jump shots, Archie Aldridge power dunking, and Adolph Rupp coming for a visit to recruit.If the city members didn't have all those Section 8 voters going to the polls, living in apartments, it wouldn't have been within 10 points. I stopped at Subway on Roosevelt a few days before the election and saw a sandwich maker catering to three or four Middie basketball players. She had on a pro levy shirt that she said was being handed out by the high school. I asked her why she supported the levy, and knew what the cowsts to be. Without blinking an eye, she said, "its free, the state is paying it all, and damn it, we deserve a new school."After grabbing my salad, and walking away, I looked her in the eye and asked her if she had an Obama phone. She said, 'yes', and with the Obama contribution, she got an upgrade to a Samsung Galaxy.Between boosters, and others picking up the tab, there isn't any wonder why the levy passed. Its entitlement, and aged former athletes clinging to the past, still trying to turn the clock back fifty years.The passage had nothing to do with education, a phsyical need, or cost reduction. It was trying to avoid the clock running out on a dead town, and those in poverty giving a boost to get a new building, because someone else paid the bill.I love the Middies, but believe in aging gracefully, without Botox, and lingering in the past. Shame on the bossters. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 3:29pm
| Dean: thank you for tolerance of others' opinions. So far, I've been told that since I'm retired, my opinion isn't valued, and now, I have to be "shamed" because of it. Sing loud, when it's time, singer....I hear the chorus line---"fired up, ready to go." Can't stop her now. just 1chmoore proudly supporting my local school system. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 3:33pm
|
A footnote, and sorry about "booster". Tried to edit it but some damn clock said time was up. "The remaining decline in property values coincides with a nationwide recession." - Marcia Andrew Marcia, you are not an oracle on real estate trends. Middletown hasn't been close to the regional average for property values in years. Its also about four times worse in decline than what happened in the 2008 recession. There has been no receovery either in Middletown. Thorpe's numbers were better than what the annual loss trend has been showing for six years.
|
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 3:39pm
| chmoore1- some have told me buying a Porsche and tinting grey hair helps with the post retirement blues. Sure as heck less expensive than a Botoxed gym keeping you feeling youthful. Testosterone may work as well. Beats 95,000,000. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 3:42pm
|
I never like anything winning or losing by that kind of margin. Only seems to polarize people and entrench them towards their position. It has passed probably, so be it. Hey--everyone had the opportunity to vote, but property owners will carry the load as always. Becoming more un-acceptable every day. Ms.Andrews continues to talk down to MUSA members, lately with her "hysteria" quote. which I find incredibly insulting. I can assure the lady that most here are as level-headed as her supporters. 24 votes switched the other way, and we would see real hysteric "end of the world" thinking. Occasionally the "lawyer" in the lady comes on a little hard, especially during the campaign signage situation. imo the price of being "legally correct" can win a skirmish and lose a war(which it came close to doing in this circumstance). Time to make this work. New and improved facilities, followed by increased enrollment, improved academic performance and a cleaner community image. Anything less will be viewed as a failed plan imo. Very concerned about the 5-year financial projection, and how she plans to manage that. Hopefully there will be no up-coming "operating" levy to deal with the benny situation.
|
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 4:58pm
| Dean: thank you for the counseling. Nothing here worth discussing. I would like to add "FIRED UP, READY TO GO!" Bring in the heavy equipment, and open those wallets! Oh, that's right, you're all moving out of town. Need to rent a truck? Just trying to be helpful, just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 5:15pm
| chmoore1, it appears to many you have been reincarnated. Once you were Smartman, the guy who had those smart kids that you owed so much to in the district. Hell, you aren't retired, you do the bidding for the Board. We'll give a call when the moving van gets near. Think he said his kid made a 16 on the ACT and got a scholarship at North Carolina A & M. Tree hugger too. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 5:24pm
| Dean: sorry, I'm not Smartman, but I do know him. Nice try, though. Good paranoia. just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 5:34pm
|
Well Spider it seems that they are back to “Build
it and they will come” mind set again. It didn’t work last time but we will try it again. I do hope they remember that they can not bring in more Section 8 this time to bring in more kiddies. Sure go ahead and put it on the credit card and we will pay for it later. Yes sir everything going to be just duckie this time… |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 5:34pm
| Of course not. You are Marcia. Now get that bulldozer started and the checks handed out pronto. |
Posted By: Iron Man
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 5:38pm
Only property owners, people with a vested interest should be eligible to vote. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 9:52pm
| Dean: and you, sir (assuming that you are male) are deluded. just 1chmoore. Strike up the band. "FIRED UP, READY TO GO!" |
Posted By: luke
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 10:01pm
|
Marcia Andrew indicates Middletown's property values have declined in comparison to other cities hit by the national recession in 2008. Maybe should read the new city manager's thesis. Housing stock won't be going up in Middletown for 30-40 years. http:///www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/commsvc/section8_analysis_2012_1023.pdf" rel="nofollow - http:///www.cityofmiddletown.org/docs/commsvc/section8_analysis_2012_1023.pdf |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 10:45pm
------------- Every morning is the dawn of a new error... |
Posted By: luke
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 10:55pm
| Its your browser, Foxfire works fine. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: May 21 2014 at 11:11pm
|
Had to copy & paste link into IE 11 to open. Thanx ------------- Every morning is the dawn of a new error... |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 6:28am
ch, can you quell the enthusiasm a tad bit and tell us WHY you voted for the levy when all the data shows us that the Middletown schools are poor performers in every category and any more money given to this district would be a bad investment. You seem to be hesitant in defending your position on your yes vote and seem to be more content to keep repeating yourself with this "fired up, ready to go" crap. Let's fix the skip in the scratched record and talk about what you saw in this district to make you cast a yes vote. We "no" voters don't understand why anyone would support giving these people more money to waste when the first batch of new buildings haven't produced anything positive. Do you think the new elementaries have produced so far? If so, tell us about it. Furthermore, you claim to be retired. Most retired folks are on a limited income and do not welcome additional money outlays from their budget. If you are one of those retired people, why the enthusiasm with the removal of more from a limited income, especially when your money is feeding a dead horse? We are "fired up and ready to go" to discuss these topics with you.  ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 6:44am
|
spider: "Only seems to polarize people and entrench them towards their position" AND POLARIZED WE ARE. spider: "Occasionally the "lawyer" in the lady comes on a little hard," STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH IS WORSE.....LAWYERS, JUDGES OR POLITICIANS. spider: "Time to make this work. New and improved facilities, followed by increased enrollment, improved academic performance and a cleaner community image. Anything less will be viewed as a failed plan imo: DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH IF PAST HISTORY IS ACCURATE. THE LAST BATCH OF NEW FACILITIES HAVEN'T PROVEN TO BE WORTH THE 45 MILLION SPENT. THE SPARSE INDICATORS MET, THE POOR PROFICIENCY SCORES, THE CONTINUAL DECLINING ENROLLMENT AND THE GENERAL DOWNTRODDEN IMAGE FROM OUTSIDERS HAS BEEN WITH US FOR DECADES. SERIOUSLY DOUBT ANY CHANGE WILL COME IN THE NEXT DECADE EITHER. JUST NEW SCHOOLS PRODUCING LOUSY RESULTS. THE BUILDINGS ARE CHANGING FROM OLD TO NEW, BUT THE END PRODUCT OUT THE DOOR IS STILL LOW QUALITY. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 6:59am
| Wasn't there some sort of permanent/continuing levy that passed about 5-6 years ago? So this discussion is now to fund an increase on top of that levy? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 8:32am
Here is a very unethical item that I am certain occurred:
Now, we know that there are existing facilities for French classes this year, and we know that this construction levy can NOT be used for salaries. So...what could this possibly have to do with the passage of a school facilities levy???
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 8:43am
Bill, That continuing (permanent) levy was an "operating" levy, meaning the funds could only be used for salaries, maintenance, supplies, and the like. This pending levy is a "facilities construction" levy, meaning it can only be used for the construction of new facilities or remodeling/expanding existing structures within strict guidelines. Funds from this levy can NOT be used for salaries, maintenance, or similar ongoing expenses. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 9:03am
|
Untrue on maintenance, it included about .5 mil for maintenance within the 4 mil. But the point on the next levy as to when, is accurate. The city and district will have them coming. A $500,000 property in Scottsdale Az is taxed at about 1700./ annually. A 160,000 house in Middletown is taxed at about 3500., from all the little pizza taxes, many who own NO property pass. As for your comments on ethics, try $100,000 in donations by the school vendors for parties for parents, tee shirts, and campaign material. Of course, the hubris and disregard for the ordinance that manifested the planting of signage weeks prematurely. Add to it misrepresentation they were getting $40,000,000. for $55,000,000., when they got nothing in Phase 1, and the actual % of state contribution would have increased to nearly 40% in state match, and within 3-4 years out, if the levy failed. These are significant and serious violations of Ohio Election laws, and those a school board and school district must avoid. I understand formal complaints have been registered at the Ohio Elections Commission. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 11:23am
| VV: almost as annoying as your BS about "6 of 26 indicators"....that didn't bother you for repeating it for years. What you are not comprehending is---and will continue to blast anyone who has this opinion---that VAIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED!!!!!! "Oh, now I want it saved. Don't tear it down. I peed there in 1966. It's historic." To answer your statement: I am retired. Even with "limited funds" as you say, I can still spend $10.00/month on the schools. I know, not all property owners can afford $10/month, but since I choose to spend that on our schools, that's what I want to do. Here's a comparison---even though I'm retired---what's my ROI (another what's my one of your annoying phrases) from the Senior Citizens' levy that was passed against my approval, and costs me $6/month? $6/month or $10/month---I want my money to go to schools---not to support a "failed" senior center facility. No discussion on that topic here, is there? Once again, it's "annoying" to have to justify why I voted for the levy---I've explained it enough: VAIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED and the "no" voters have no way to address that. If you do, EXPLAIN IT; TELL US WHAT YOUR PLAN IS, BESIDES WAIT UNTIL IT'S 100 YEARS OLD AND IN WORSE CONDITION. "6 of 26 indicators": "FIRED UP AND READY TO GO!" It is annoying, isn't it? just 1chmoore, a little under the skin today. Always fun debating you, Vet. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 12:28pm
|
Hey, you did respond!! Good for you ch. Now to the debate, argument, anger, resentment, annoying comments, irritation, smart-a-- comments....anything you want to call it...... ch: "almost as annoying as your BS about "6 of 26 indicators"...." WELL, HELL CH, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT ANYMORE, CHANGE THE DAM THING TO REFLECT BETTER NUMBERS. JUST STATING A FACT OF LIFE FOR YOUR LOUSY SCHOOL SYSTEM. IT'S A MESS BUT THE BLIND SUPPORTERS IN DENIAL APPARENTLY THINK IT'S JUST PEACHES. IF THE NUMBERS STAY THE SAME FOR YEARS, WHAT ELSE CAN YOU SAY? MERCY. ch: VAIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED!!!!!! NOW, CH, YOU USED ALL CAPS HERE. STOP SCREAMING AT US..... I BELIEVE THAT WAS MENTIONED BY EITHER YOU OR ONE OF YOUR BUDDIES MONTHS AGO.REPLACED HUH? BUILDING NEW IS THE ONLY OPTION FOR THE PRO-LEVY GANG. (EVEN THOUGH BUILDING NEW SCHOOLS A FEW YEARS AGO HASN'T DONE JACK SQUAT AS TO IMPROVEMENT) ch: "Oh, now I want it saved. Don't tear it down. I peed there in 1966. It's historic BY GOD, I DID PEE THERE IN 1966! IT IS HISTORIC BUT THAT MEANS NOTHING IN THIS TOWN. DIDN'T WITH ROOSEVELT SCHOOL NOR ANY OF THE ELEMENTARIES. WON'T NOW WITH VAIL EITHER. HATE TO SEE WADE E. MILLER GO MOST OF ALL. NOW THERE IS HISTORY IN THAT GYM AND IT IS A FINE PLACE TO WATCH B_BALL. GOT CHARACTER UNLIKE THE NEWER GYMS BUILT IN THE LAST 20 YEARS. ch: To answer your statement: I am retired. Even with "limited funds" as you say, I can still spend $10.00/month on the schools. I know, not all property owners can afford $10/month, but since I choose to spend that on our schools, that's what I want to do. A NOBLE CAUSE CH. NICE OF YOU TO STILL HAVE FAITH IN YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM, DESPITE THE POOR STATE OF AFFAIRS WITH PRODUCTION OF A QUALITY PRODUCT. I SUPPOSE ONE CAN STILL CHOOSE TO SUPPORT A LOSER. ch: even though I'm retired---what's my ROI (another what's my one of your annoying phrases) from the Senior Citizens' levy that was passed against my approval, and costs me $6/month? $6/month or $10/month---I want my money to go to schools---not to support a "failed" senior center facility CH, IF I HAVE TO SUPPORT YOUR SCHOOL LEVY, THAT YOU SO TREASURE, TO BE FAIR, SHOULDN'T YOU SUPPORT THE LEVY THAT I BENEFIT FROM? THE ROI IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THOSE WHO INVEST AND WANT SOME TYPE OF DECENT RETURN. CERTAINLY YOU OWN STOCKS AND HAVE SOME SORT OF PORTFOLIO. MOST RETIRED OR APPROACHING RETIREMENT DO. SURELY YOU WANT SOMETHING FOR YOUR MONEY BESIDE A FANCY NEW BUILDING WITH AN INNER LAYER OF FUTILITY DON'T YOU? ALL OF US HAVE RECEIVED NOTHING, NOT DIDDLY SQUAT, AS TO A REWARD FOR THE 45 MILLION YOU APPROVED (I VOTED NO THEN ALSO). JUST AS THE SENIOR CENTER IS YOUR FOCAL POINT OF DISGUST, SO TOO, SO FAR, FOR MY FAMILY, THE SENIORS CENTER, WITH THEIR SERVICES, HAVE IMPRESSED ME MORE FOR MY TAX CONTRIBUTION THAN THE SCHOOLS HAVE DONE IN 3 DECADES OF LEVY APPROVALS. AT LEAST I HAVE SEEN MY SENIOR LEVY MONEY USED TO ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE LIVES OF PEOPLE, WHILE MY LEVY MONEY FOR THE SCHOOLS HAS ONLY RESULTED IN A STAGNATED POOL OF FAILURE. HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE SENIOR CENTER? DO YOU KNOW THE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE BESIDES THE ACTUAL ACTIVITY INSIDE THE FACILITY SUCH AS THE SOCIALIZATION, THE GAMES AND THE HOT MEALS PROVIDED? WE USE NONE OF THOSE THINGS BECAUSE I CAN'T TAKE MY WIFE OUT DUE TO AN EMERGENCY SITUATION HAPPENING AT ANY TIME, BUT WE CERTAINLY HAVE BENEFITTED FROM THEIR OUTSIDE SERVICES. IF YOU EVER LOSE YOUR MOBIL INDEPENDANCE, YOU MAY BENEFIT ALSO AT SOME FUTURE DATE. ch: I want my money to go to schools---not to support a "failed" senior center facility. No discussion on that topic here, is there? NOPE, EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE. LIKEWISE, I DON'T WANT MY MONEY TO GO TO THE "FAILED" SCHOOLS AND WILL SPONSOR THE SENIOR'S CENTER. ch: Once again, it's "annoying" to have to justify why I voted for the levy---I've explained it enough: VAIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED and the "no" voters have no way to address that. If you do, EXPLAIN IT; TELL US WHAT YOUR PLAN IS, BESIDES WAIT UNTIL IT'S 100 YEARS OLD AND IN WORSE CONDITION. "6 of 26 indicators": WHEN THE "6 OF 26 INDICATORS" FIASCO IMPROVES, IT WILL GO AWAY. PERHAPS SINCE YOU ARE A SCHOOL SUPPORTER, YOU COULD JOIN THEM AND SUGGEST WAYS TO IMPROVE THOSE NUMBERS. I'M BETTING YOU HAVEN'T MADE AN ATTEMPT TO HELP THEM BUT ARE TIRED OF HEARING THAT THEY HAVEN'T MADE PROGRESS. HELP YOUR SCHOOL BUDDIES SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS CH. REMEMBER, YOU ARE A BIG SCHOOL SUPPORTER. TIME TO SHOW JUST HOW DEDICATED YOU ARE. ch: Once again, it's "annoying" to have to justify why I voted for the levy---I've explained it enough: VAIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED BUT CH, THIS IS ALL YOU HAVE SAID. IE- THAT VAIL NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. YOU HAVEN'T MADE AN ATTEMPT TO ADDRESS THE OTHER AREAS I HAVE ASKED YOU TO TALK ABOUT. AGAIN, FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME, WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR THE SCHOOL LEVY GIVEN THE POOR SCORES, THE POOR INDICATORS, THE DECLINING ENROLLMENT, THE OHIO SCHOOL RANKING TOWARD THE BOTTOM OF THE 612 SCHOOL LIST, THE KIDS BOLTING FOR OTHER DISTRICTS AND THE POOR EDUCATION QUALITY PRODUCED AS PERCEIVED BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE DISTRICT. NO ONE COMING INTO THE DISTRICT BUT PEOPLE STREAMING OUT. .....ALL OF THESE THINGS YOU HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS OR ARE INTENTIONALLY AVOIDING BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS. ch: FIRED UP AND READY TO GO!" It is annoying, isn't it? BUT NOT AS ANNOYING AS WATCHING PEOPLE VOTE FOR A LEVY, SWALLOWING EVERYTHING THE SUPERINTENDENT, THE SCHOOL BOARD AND THE TEACHERS SAY HOOK LINE AND SINKER. THOSE WHO BUY THEIR CRAP ARE GULLIBLE, TO SAY THE LEAST. THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 12:33pm
|
Moore, while I am sure VV can address your concerns and issues in his vote for the senior citizens center, which I was appalled and outraged property owners bailed out their failure to attract a thousand members, over bought land, and tore down a building, and completely mismanaged it fiscally, you are misguided and stating inaccurate facts associated with the NO opposition. Mike Presta was on the committee whom evaluated options, and indicated many had laid forth an opposing strategy that was ignored and given no consideration. So, the failure begins with the committee, that brought forth the only alternative to vote union----that being, to destroy buildings, and rebuild, or to let Vail stay in place, and also land associated with Verity and its superior condition and added inconvenience when consolidated and causing inconvenience for those located in its area presently. Further, I called the Managing Director of Finance at the Ohio Facilities Commission and spoke for nearly 30 minutes on Middletown, what % match would be expected if the levy failed, and when Middletown would receive it. The response was nearly 40% on MATCH, and increase of nearly 14% of the poor rate in 2003 that was entered into contractually, and Middletown would be back in line for receipt in 4-5 years. Hence, the solution was to DEFEAT the levy, get a better deal on the 3 year average, and re-evaluate costs according to Middletown's shrinking population. I add....this was before all the additional materially damning data the Journal, specifically Rick McCrabb, Eric Robinette, and others, with-held. Therefore, you and voters were provided countless options for consideration, which were ignored, and buried by the noise, completely untruthful and devoid of FACT, the matching fund went away. A better deal was on the way, as a matter of fact. Walnut Hills has a school built in the late 1800's, and in use, and enjoying an EXCELLENT rating. Sadly, MCSD did not take care of Vail, just as the city has not taken care of its roads and infrastructure. You can vote for every levy know to mankind, for whatever the reason. But your cavalier attitude and insults associated with "idiot"terminology for disagreeing with you are repugnant, insulting, and dilute any meaningful degree of credibility you, or others, have, associated with this vote, or any in the future. Combine that cavalier spirit with deplorable tactics associated with the election, signage, and other factors, all disrespect and dishonor shown by many YES supporters, has caused acrimony that will have ramifications far into the future. I'll let you and VV discuss the Vail urinal. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 3:54pm
| VV: First off, I think that I always replied. Never tried to avoid it. 2nd: You have no idea how I've supported the system through my life. I need not--and will not---go into details. Good catch on the capitalization---since it's a deviance from my norm. I did it for effect, since I saw the need to "yell"; apparently you don't get it unless I yell. I have nothing against the Senior Center and its levy. I wanted to use that as an example of how we all can't get what we want all the time. Hopefully for the last time, I find value for my contribution (tax money) in having a new building over a 100 year-old, inefficient building that has no option at this point than getting older and more outdated. By the way, the OSFC states that if costs over 2/3rds (66%) to renovate, rather than build new---if they are participating in the construction costs---they recommend new. Without a long discussion about the process to convince the OSFC otherwise, it is extremely difficult to do that. Cincinnati Public has done that with several buildings, but had to pay a lot more for all of the LFIs (locally funded initiatives). Perhaps with the new middle school being built, the board will agree to alternatives to demolition of dear old MHS/Vail/MMS. A qualified buyer was never found for Roosevelt; it didn't work well years ago for Maple Park, Sherman and "old" Amanda. just 1chmoore--still retired, not Smartman or Marcia, and still have an opinion. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 4:19pm
|
Acclaro: you state: "...your cavalier attitude and insults associated with "idiot"terminology for disagreeing with you are repugnant, insulting, and dilute any meaningful degree of credibility..." Let's peruse one of YOUR recent posts directed at ME: from May 20---"Moore, you said you were a retiree making less than $35,000 yearly, so I really don't value your opinion frankly, nor your avocation." Seems like quite a number of insults can come flying from YOUR SIDE of the topic (ie, "NO") but don't let anything bad be said by the other side. We've been called Kool-Aid drinkers, delusional, among others. Very typical of this blog. Also, a correction on Walnut Hills: "A new building on Victory Boulevard (now Victory Parkway) was built on 14 acres (57,000 m2) acquired from the Catholic Archdiocese of Cincinnati and completed in 1931. Designed by architect Frederick W. Garber's firm it remains in use today." You can find anything on the internet. just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 4:27pm
|
Simply a falsehood on the petition per ORC. It is not cumbersome. It does nothing to alter LFI, as they aren't funded by the state. The issue was economics and value add, not history. Taking 1.5 Mm out of local economy for a school and upgrade, is so illogical, when the local economy is bleeding. Klinger does survey, spin the cash around, and the results will be the same in 10 years. Too impatient to await a few years to a better match. Madness. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 4:48pm
|
Moore, I said many times, I didn't even vote in the levy cycle May 6. I could have easily rounded up 100 NO votes, but chose to sit this out, just like the previous levy. I give facts, on economics, let the cards fall, and even on the mistruth of $ 40 Mm going away, it wasn't less than .5% separation, without the parties, without the gifts, tee shirts, and misrepresentations throughout the district on the dissent bench. I don't care if you are retired, 21, played football at Middletown, then earned a full ride and ran a cloud of dust under Woody Hayes. You will find nothing I have stated that has not been factual, unless intended for obvious satire. On the other hand, Marcia Andrew split hairs on a non ambivalent ordinance, that Landen acknowledged was wrong, and committees have stated mis-truths associated with the funding going away. Not one individual on the school board has acknowledged Middletown's fault in its meltdown, and parses failures as if its a national trend. 10 years from now, the district will be stuck on continuous improvement, with fewer students, and a stagnant property tax valuation. I have my remedy, a tax appeal. Middletown just threw millions away from the local economy. But the boosters will enjoy the new gym. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 6:41am
Ok, you have addressed the on-going discussion of "do we build new or do we renovate". You got what you wanted there. Now, third (or fourth time, who's counting anymore), the question is asked of you..... WHY DID YOU VOTE YES ON THE BOND LEVY KNOWING THE LACK OF PERFORMANCE ISSUES OF THIS SCHOOL DISTRICT AND KNOWING THAT THE LAST BOND ISSUE FOR THE ELEMENTARIES HAVE PRODUCED NOTHING IN RETURN?....IE- WHY DID YOU WANT TO REWARD THIS DISTRICT KNOWING THERE HAS BEEN ONLY STAGNATION IN EDUCATING THE KIDS HERE? IF THE FIRST BOND LEVY PASSAGE PRODUCED NO IMPROVEMENT, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO REPEAT THE FAILURE WITH THIS BOND LEVY? WE ALL ARE GOING TO GET NOTHING FOR OUR MONEY IF THE FIRST LEVY IS ANY INDICATOR OF THINGS TO COME, RIGHT? WHY KEEP HONORING EVERY REQUEST WITH A REWARD GIVEN TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T SHOWN ANY PROGRESS? ISN'T THERE ANY ACCOUNTABILITY ATTACHED TO YOUR WALLET? I'M USING CAPS BECAUSE I'M YELLING BECAUSE YOU DON'T GET IT BY THE WAY. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 6:26pm
|
Well, I take it that the levy yes supporters won't take it upon themselves to indulge us no voters with an explanation as to what they saw that was so appealing, that they would freely give more of their money away while the schools did absolutely nothing to earn the right to get what they requested.....absolutely no accountability is needed, nor was accomplished, on the part of the schools to earn that monetary reward. Most of the time, when an award, a reward or an acknowledgement of success is recognized, there are some positive accomplishments that are mentioned to justify the action. Here, we have a known poor performer being rewarded by a group of yes voting people who can't seem to tell us why they justified the reward. Who would be the spokesperson among the levy supporters that will be willing to tell us the reasons for their yes vote and to defend the school's poor track record? Amazing, voting to approve spending more money but not being able to supply a reason why they want a new building when they know the previous new buildings did nothing toward improvement. Oh, and as to the condition of Vail being the reason for the teardown and rebuild of the new middle school, the past and current school board need look no further than themselves as the culprit. Apparently there was no money budgeted over the years, despite levy approvals, to address any preventative maint. needed as the school aged. They just simply fixed problems as they arose, many times being too late, as the permanent damage was already done. How convenient, as this tactic provided a reason for the request for new schools. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: ktf1179
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 9:12pm
|
Vet I do agree with you on most of your points about taxes and holding people responsible. However I had to split with you on this issue mainly due to the fact that the community, does have an obligation to provide a decent place for education, much like we had when we went to school. True we may not of have had A/C and internet when we went to school, but they are a fact of life now. Much like the community also needs to provide support, services and a building to it's senior citizens, which I also voted for. The fact of the matter is the middle school has lived a good life, and it could of lasted longer if it was maintained by prior school boards, sadly that did not happen. So we could either let the middle school stay as is, and let things in the school slowly deteriorate and get more expensive trying to maintain, or build a new middle school with help from the state that is more efficient, and is capable of being added to in the future. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 7:31pm
|
Ok ktf, say we go along with the yes voter game plan and bulldoze Vail and build a brand new middle school by the high school while adding to the high school. Great, you will get what you want.......again. Picture this scenario: The new middle school is in place and functioning and the high school is enjoying it's new found additional space. All the latest gimmicks and gadgets including air conditioning and benches to massage the students so they can feel good about their school experience, new gyms for all the sporting activity which pleases Ison because we will have many gyms across the street from MUM as he sees his sports mecca taking traction with mutiple mega events. It is educational utopia for the Middletown city schools and nary a cloud in the sky. Everyone is happy at the school board. Super Ison is smiling daily, Marcia Andrew is feeling good about things and ch is happier than he has been in years. All the school supporters have their day. BUT WAIT.....how will all of these yes voters explain that the kids aren't doing any better in this latest version of the Taj Mahal....JUST AS THEY ARE DOING NOW AND HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS IN THE NEW TAJ MAHAL ELEMENTARIES THAT WERE BUILT. ACCOUNTABILITY BE DAMMED! WE ONLY CARE THAT THE KIDS ARE COMFY AND IN A NEW ENVIRONMENT. WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' IMPROVEMENT. DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HIGH ON THE LIST OF IMPORTANCE NOR EVEN MENTIONED AS A CONCERN. NEW SCHOOLS ARE MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT COMES OUT OF 'EM, DON'T CHA KNOW! IF THAT HAPPENS, and history tells us that it will, WE WILL HAVE BEEN TAXED FOR THESE NEW SCHOOLS, and, once again, will not have gotten jack squat for our money as to any benefit......ALTHOUGH THE KIDS WILL HAVE AIR-CONDITIONING AND BE "ALL COMFY" WHILE THEY PERFORM AT A LOW LEVEL. DOES ANYONE IN THE YES VOTE CAMP CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN THE NEW SCHOOLS AFTER THEY ARE BUILT OR IS EVERYONE SO WRAPPED UP WITH GIDDY DELIGHT THAT WE HAVE A FEW MORE NEW SCHOOLS AND DON'T CARE WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THE EFFORT WAS? HOW ABOUT THE NEW SCHOOL SUPPORTERS PUT AS MUCH INTEREST IN WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE THE DAM NEW SCHOOLS AS THEY DO IN GETTING THEM BUILT. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Jun 07 2014 at 5:26pm
| Now that the planning and design of the new middle school will be underway, it would be nice to get the assurance from the board and superintendent that several "treasures" will be incorporated in the new/remodeled buildings. Among these are the statues of Abe and George, and the stone "wisdom sayings" on the exterior of the building (auditorium, gym, etc.). The statues should be easily moved. NO ONE should personally profit from these unique items. No "backroom deals," no "handshake purchases," no "silent"---or even public---auctions of these. On this topic, I am MORE than just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Jun 07 2014 at 5:29pm
| Also, be forewarned: I WILL be bringing this topic up periodically, until the assurances are made. Now, just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 07 2014 at 6:14pm
|
chmoore Since Verity School is in the wrong neighborhood and MSB will be needing money why hasn't this property been placed on the open market and sold? This is a total waste of taxpayers money to let this school just sit and rot away. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 07 2014 at 8:19pm
|
The 30-40 individuals I have spoken cannot believe the schools cost more than paving all of Middletown, and the voters made buildings a priority over infrastructure. 'Moving forward' has a new meaning: 'moving to a new city'. ------------- 'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Jun 07 2014 at 10:25pm
| Ms. Moon: I have no clue. I don't have any affiliation with the schools, other than being a resident. just 1chmoore. |
Posted By: RRiveter
Date Posted: Jun 23 2014 at 4:46pm
|
22 votes!!!!! It's laughable now! Gave a good fight but in the end all of you "Yes voters" will see what you've allowed to happen!!! MCSD could have received MORE money from the state due to the "poor" tax valuations that our district is in... but since they decided to bully everyone with LIES, look at the end result! And to top it all off, the VERY DAY BEFORE votes were in the front page story was how we are in the RED!!! Hello, is this thing on? You bought yourselves a new Ferrari and won't be able to afford insurance or tires!!!! So when there's a problem on the bus at 7 am with a 12 year old and a 17 year old, just remember you voted yes for this! When you drive down Girard and see a HUGE green field that has litter scattered all over it, and possibly a MECCA for crime, drug activity and who else knows, YOUR VOTE REALLY DID COUNT! Way to go. Way to keep DOWNTOWN BEAUTIFUL! You keep moving things farther away from where the heart of this town is... Get it together. Hoping one day to find unity. Until then, this place is NOTORIOUS for putting the cart before the horse. When you're at the bottom, the only way to go is up. <---- We'll see. ------------- RRiveter |
Posted By: buckeye43719
Date Posted: Jun 23 2014 at 9:10pm
| I'm glad I voted against the levy. The only thing people cares about is sports. I have never voted for a school tax levy in Middletown and never will. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 24 2014 at 11:52am
|
Riveter and company..... IF history is accurate and the proficiency results, the lack of any significant measureable progress from the recent new schools that have been built and the lack of progress toward the half way point in indicators are to be predicted, I think most all of us will see nothing for our money......again, in the coming years. Has anything that the school district offered, in the last several decades, meant anything other than stagnated mediocrity? Where are the schools in comparison to a decade or two ago? About the same, right? New supers haven't done anything. New schools/new learning environments haven't done anything. New methods adopted haven't opened any eyes, right? More levy money doesn't seem to be the answer as to changing anything. At the bottom two decades ago....at the bottom now with property values, quality and image slowly sinking in the west. All of us have contributed, either willingly or unwillingly, toward the school effort over the years, and, with the exception of those who would offer numbers that mean nothing in the overall scheme of things, those who would see goodness in any catastrophy and those who are in total denial concerning reality, most of us continually see the same old stagnated pond of water that is the Middletown school district. Most school board members will vehemently disagree that the house of cards fell long ago. That is expected as they have to play the part of "authority support/PR for the schools". Most teachers and admin will deny any downward trend as it is their livelihood they are trying to protect. And most pro-levy supporters will provide resistance to those who would criticize because they love sponsoring the perennial loser at the track while continually throwing their money down the "it'll get better if you just keep giving us what we want" hole of promises. These people apparently do not think it necessary that they see any dividends on their investment. As a matter of fact, amazingly, they are quite satisfied, and are willing to give more, if absolutely no progress is made at all. And now we wait for the flak from the school board members and the school supporters, who will offer the same non-producing, non-changing, non-logical arguments they have been playing on the taxpayer for years. Have their ideas and game plans been successful? Just look at the data and lack of improvement in any area you wish to find the answer to that question. If these people would only open their eyes and realize it is time to acknowledge the reality that it is a futile effort in it's current state. ------------- I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over. |