Double Dippers
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Schools
Forum Name: School Board
Forum Description: Discuss the board individually and as a group.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4342
Printed Date: Nov 21 2024 at 8:40pm
Topic: Double Dippers
Posted By: chmoore1
Subject: Double Dippers
Date Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 10:32am
| As the current school year comes to a close in the 4 months, can we find out what the school board's policy is regarding "double-dipping"? How many teachers and administrators are currently in this practice, and what are the plans to end this? chmoore |
Replies:
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jan 26 2012 at 7:59pm
| Change the law? |
Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 7:45pm
| Or change the board policy. chmoore |
Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Jan 29 2012 at 10:09pm
| Double dippers save the district money because they come back at significantly lower salaries but offer the same level of experience. Retirees could go anyplace and begin working again while claiming their earned pension; why should it be different if they come back to the same employer? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jan 30 2012 at 6:18am
Because the perception by the majority of the taxpaying public is that it gives the appearance that the job was not offered to anyone but the person who is already in the inner circle of the educational community- ie. the retiree was pre-ordained in the selection to fill the position they vacated. Because it allows for the thinking of impropriety and reeks of educational positional neopotism. Because, in the private sector, after you retire, and you start to collect social security, you are limited as to the amount of hours you can work to maintain the collection of that social security status. This rehire of double dippers in the public sector usually allows the rehired retiree to work any hours they wish, doesn't it? Don't know exactly how the public job sector handles the "after you retire" scenario. Not a level playing field if public sector can work unlimited hours while private sector must maintain strict hour limitations. And finally, in some cases, the taxpayers are glad the person retired, want them to "get on down the road" and do not want to see the position refilled by an undesirable. |
SupportMiddletown wrote:Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jan 30 2012 at 8:14am
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Why? i) Because it takes an advancement and a job from another qualified individual. 2) Because it compromises the economics and efficiencies within the state because of crony capitalism and pandering for political votes. The Dems use it as leverage for votes and legislative roadblocks (SR5 ring a bell) when those making $175,000 can retire, draw about $140,000, then get a second salary at 85%/90% or 100% of their previous salary. 3) 95% of the dippers are administrative people, the "overhead". Rarely, do you have a teacher retire and come back for a double dip. why? They are the work-a-bees, burnt out, ready for the retirement. For the admin folks, its such an easy position, they come back for the added financial benefits, and float around, just like the admin folks do in public sector. With this said, it will never change, its too lucrative in Ohio. Admin is the place to be...not teaching. But, speaking about does not change the system. Too well established. The social security issue on the national stage. |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Jan 30 2012 at 9:25am
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While it may make sense to allow double dipping when you put on the blinders at look at the micro level of one particular position, when viewed in totality the entire pension system is unsustainable and crushing the state financially. I have three main beefs with it:-- acclaro's point about blocking the natural paths of advancement for younger, talented administrators. Look at Hamilton County, they have old geezers like Dusty Rhodes, Si Leis, etc. who will never leave.
-- the fact that someone who is doing this already has one foot out the door and is probably not as committed or working as hard as the next candidate would be. The dipper's main goal at this stage of his career is to buy that vacation home, visit the grandchildren more often, and determine how little work he has to do for the next 3-4 years while they soak the system one last time.
-- the crony nature of the whole thing
Meanwhile in the real world, if a 59 year manager who had 30-35 years in with a company (rare nowadays) even dared to slow down their work habits, ask too many retirement questions of Human Resources, or use up all their vacation time, they might find themselves part of the next downsizing.
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Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Mar 15 2012 at 1:08am
Ms. Andrews or other board members. With other school districts making cuts (Lakota, Monroe, etc.) does Middletown have any administrators who are double dipping? If so, what is the board's stance on ending this practice in the near future? chmoore
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Posted By: Marcia Andrew
Date Posted: Mar 21 2012 at 1:56pm
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CHMoore,
I do not think that the school board has a policy specific to "double-dipping," (either for or against it).
"Retire-rehire," which is the situation where an employee retires only to be rehired in the same position by the same school district, has some requirements mandated by state law which include a public hearing before the rehire. We have not done a "retire-rehire" in the 6 years that I have been on the board.
"double-dipping" could also include people who retire from one school district, and then are hired by another district to the same or a similar position. I do not think this is a common practice in our district, although with over 500 employees, it is possible some are collecting a pension from work in another district. I can state positively that our Superintendent and Treasurer are not double dipping.
I can also tell you that last year, when we offered an early retirement incentive as a way to cushion the effect of our substantial reduction in staff necessary to bring our expenses in line with declining revenue, we made it an express requirement that anyone who accepted the early retirement offer could not be rehired by the district in any capacity other than substitute (who are paid on a per-day basis for only the days worked).
Marcia Andrew
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Posted By: chmoore1
Date Posted: Mar 21 2012 at 3:27pm
| Ms. Andrew. Thank you. Can you say whether the district has any administrators who are receiving retirement benefits from the state and are still working for the district, and, if so, who? chmoore. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 22 2012 at 7:13am
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Ms.Andrew: Do you have an opinion or recommendation regarding support for the mcsd media campaign to recruit locals who possibly have left the district, or have never been enrolled? Seems the desire is for the private sector to finance this newsprint or postal delivery(?) despite not being involved in the creation of the concept. Are we really ready to jump into this without the phase 2 issues being decided?
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Posted By: Middletown News
Date Posted: Mar 22 2012 at 3:33pm
 ------------- Please like our http://www.facebook.com/middletownusa" rel="nofollow - Middletown USA Facebook Page |
Posted By: Stanky
Date Posted: Mar 22 2012 at 4:08pm
| Spider, do these mailings contain anything more than the standard - "hey, new schools!" or "12th highest increase in the state", etc. that we've heard for some time now? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 29 2012 at 6:25am
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Today's Journal...
Taxpayers paying $96M for unused time off Hundreds of departing workers got more than $40K for unused leave Ohio paid nearly $100 million in 2010 and 2011 for state employees who cashed out accrued paid time off after leaving their jobs, a workplace perk that is rare in the private sector, a Dayton Daily News investigation has found. The $96.3 million in payouts — mostly unused sick and vacation time — went to 11,593 of Ohio’s nonuniversity employees over the past two years, according to data from the Ohio Department of Administrative Services. About 350 employees received more than $40,000 each, with five getting more than $100,000. Of the $96.3 million, $250,000 went to 35 employees who cashed out their unused paid time off after transferring to different state jobs that didn’t allow them to accrue leave. Private vs. public Most employers don’t allow their employees to cash out unused sick and vacation time. A 2011 survey by the Society of Human Resources found that only 6 percent of employers allowed workers to cash out unused sick time. Sixteen percent allowed employees to cash out unused vacation time. Seventeen percent of employers allowed their workers to cash out generic “paid time off” that encompasses both sick and vacation time. NOW THIS WILL JUST FIRE YOU UP IF YOU ARE A PRIVATE SECTOR WORKER... Tops was Cynthia Lemmerman, director of federal programs for the Ohio Department of Education. Lemmerman started working for the state in November 2009 after spending 35 years as an Ohio educator, working as a teacher and administrator. She retired in January 2011, receiving a payout for both her state work and her career as an educator of $120,000, including $96,900 for unused sick time. She was re-hired for the same job, making $50.48 an hour, according to payroll records. REHIRED AT $50.48 per hour! TWO PAYOUTS. Retiring state employees who were paid for more than $100,000 in unused paid leave: $120,648.04: Cynthia Lemmerman, Department of Education, director of federal programs $116,143.31: Joseph Poole, Department of Developmental Disabilities, medical coordinator $114,471.88: Rodney Wilson, Department of Transportation, transportation engineer $100,799.89: Vicente Luna, Department of Mental Health, psychiatrist $100,013.11: Deborah Roshto, Department of Education, director of office of curriculum and development Source: Ohio Department of Administrative Services NEW RULES......USE IT OR LOSE IT BUT YOU AIN'T GETTIN' IT IN A PAYOUT AT RETIREMENT TIME. TAXPAYERS SHAFTED AGAIN. |