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You Can't Handle the Truth

Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Outside World
Forum Name: News, Info and Happenings outside Middletown
Forum Description: It might be happening outside Middletown, but it affects us here at home.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3936
Printed Date: Dec 22 2024 at 11:06pm


Topic: You Can't Handle the Truth
Posted By: Middletown News
Subject: You Can't Handle the Truth
Date Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 1:52pm
You've probably heard a lot of claims about Senate Bill 5, but it's time to set the record straight.

Senate Bill 5 will help KEEP our hard-working teachers, fire fighters, police officers and other public servants on the job.

Senate Bill 5 will PROTECT middle class taxpayers.

Senate Bill 5 will give schools and governments the FLEXIBILITY to manage our tax dollars.

Senate Bill 5 will SAVE taxpayers millions of dollars a year.

Senate Bill 5 will help our communities BALANCE their budgets and fund essential services.

Senate Bill 5 will restore FAIRNESS between public and private sector jobs.

Senate Bill 5 will IMPROVE the accountability and transparency of government labor negotiations.

Senate Bill 5 will help REWARD and RETAIN the best teachers and employees.

The list goes on. The labor unions don't want you to know these facts because they oppose reform – especially if it means giving up power or loosening their grip on our wallets. These unions get millions of our tax dollars every year, so they'll say and do anything to keep you from learning the truth about Senate Bill 5. In fact, polling shows that when most Ohioans get the facts about these reasonable reforms, they overwhelmingly support them.

We've put together a few helpful resources to help you learn exactly what the bill does, why it's necessary, what people are saying about it, and why you shouldn't believe everything you hear from the unions who oppose it.

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Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 2:15pm
Here's the Senate Bill 5 protesters list Jonathan.....

Senate Bill 5 will eliminate tenure and prevent teachers and other public employees from "retiring on the job" and keeping on board, those that are poor performers.

Senate Bill 5 will require that public employees pay more for their dental and health coverage premiums as the private sector has had to do for years.

Senate Bill 5 will require that public employees place more into their retirements as their retirement will be funded less by the taxpayers.

Senate Bill 5 will negate the collective bargaining table negotiations for unions that gave them raises BEFORE they performed the work.

Senate Bill 5 will base public employee pay on MERIT and PERFORMANCE rather than the "after the contract is negotiated, we are absolved from actually performing" attitude. They will now be aligned with the private sector on how they will be evaluated and the raise given for their contributions.

Senate Bill 5 does the taxpayer a favor as to the elimination of some of the money burden and getting more of our "moneysworth out of the public servants" versus money expended.

It is a shame we can't do this on the fed employee level. Alot of gov. employee duplication, lazy gov. workers, layer upon layer of meaningless jobs, jobs created to keep them on the payroll after their original job goes away, etc. See it everyday here at WPAFB. You, the taxpayer would be appalled at the fed beast that has been created. And this is only one gov. facility. Multiply this same scenario many times during the course of one working day around the country (world).


Posted By: Middletown News
Date Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 2:59pm
That was so right on. Most protesters are lemmings following the MSLSD talking points. If only they would listen to Bill O they might get the facts, jack.

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Posted By: Voleye
Date Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 4:30pm

Collective bargining.  I dont understand the need to do away with it.   If management and labor (no matter what trade) sit down and work out a deal that both sides agree on why is it something that needs to be done away with.    From what I am hearing the Republicans are saying is that thru collective bargining the labor side has a far sweeter deal than they should (ie pensions, tenure, salary, benefits).  OK that might be true, but how did they get it?  Someone is respopnsible for agreeing to the deal and should be held responsible if the deal is too one sided.  I dont see where the process is broken.  If you cant afford the deal then dont approve it.  Simple enough.  Let them strike, walk out, what ever, but dont agree to something then a couple years later say,   We couldnt control ourselves and we need legislation to control ourselves.

Am I looking at it wrong?


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 8:24pm

Voleye:

The “need” arises from the way the process works (under current law) if management and labor cannot agree. Fear of what the “fact finders” and arbitrators may decide tend to make management agree to sweeter deals than may be fiscally prudent lest even more costly deals are forced upon them.

Under current law (before H. B. 5), they are not allowed to “Let them strike, walk out, what ever”. Either they agree at some point, or it ultimately goes to binding arbitration.



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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 8:40pm
"Collective bargining. I dont understand the need to do away with it"

JMO.....

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING ALLOWS THE WORKERS A CHANCE TO DICTATE THE AMOUNT OF RAISE, THE FREQUENCY OF RAISE, RIGHTS OF POOR WORKERS OVER BETTER WORKERS JUST BECAUSE OF MORE TIME ON THE JOB (TENURE), THE RIGHT TO CLOSE A BUSINESS DOWN IF THE DEMANDS AREN'T MET BY STRIKING, BASICALLY, GIVES THE WORKER THE RIGHT TO DICTATE HOW IT'S GOING TO BE TO THE OWNER. WHO OWNS THE COMPANY, THE ACTUAL OWNER OR THE UNION WORKERS? THAT AIN'T RIGHT, IS IT?

THE WHOLE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN UNIONS WERE FORMED DECADES AGO, THE WORKING ENVIRONMENT WAS DANGEROUS, THERE WAS LOW, PATHETIC PAY FOR BUSTING YOUR BUTT, THERE WERE UNREASONABLE HOURS DEMANDED BY THE COMPANIES, AND BASICALLY, THE WORKER WAS TREATED WORSE THAN A DOG. NOW, IT APPEARS TO BE SKEWED 180 DEGREES WHERE THE UNION DEMANDS ARE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE THE COMPANIES CAN'T HANDLE THEM ANYMORE. SAME WITH THE PUBLIC UNIONS. THE CITIES AND THE TAXPAYERS CAN'T HANDLE THE PUBLIC UNIONS DEMANDS ANYMORE. THEY ARE TAPPED OUT. AND THE UNION PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO SEE THEIR BARGAINING WORK OF THE PAST COME TUMBLING DOWN.

OVER THE YEARS, BOTH THE PRIVATE UNION SHOP EMPLOYERS AND THE CITY PUBLIC WORKER UNION DISCUSSIONS HAVE GONE PRIMARILY THE UNION'S WAY. THEY HAVE GOTTEN SOME SWEET DEALS THE NON-UNION SECTOR COULD ONLY DREAM ABOUT. IT IS JUDGEMENT DAY FOR THE UNIONS. THEY ARE BEING ASKED TO GIVE AS MUCH AS THE NON-UNION PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN FOR YEARS WHILE LOSING TENURE AND GOING TO MERIT WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL ALONG. HAVING WORKED IN THE NON-UNION SECTOR FOR EIGHT LARGE/SMALL COMPANIES OVER FORTY YEARS +, I FIND IT HARD TO HAVE ANY EMPATHY FOR THEM. THEY WILL BE NO WORSE AFTER THIS THAN MILLIONS OF NON-UNION WORKERS WHO HAVE SURVIVED FOR MANY YEARS.

HAVING SAID ALL THIS, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT I AM A WORKER, NOT A MANAGER OR OWNER. I NEVER HAVE LIKED MOST MANAGEMENT NOR SOME SMALL OR LARGE COMPANY OWNERS. I HAVE CONSIDERED THEM MY ADVERSARY THESE MANY YEARS AND I HAVE "TOLERATED" THEM FOR THE SAKE OF EMPLOYMENT. I HAVE PAID THE PRICE FOR DOING SO IN "CAREER OPPORTUNITIES", BUT REFUSED TO COMPROMISE. IT IS IRONIC THAT I AM NOW TAKING THEIR SIDE IN THIS DEBATE.


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 17 2011 at 5:13am

I should’ve pointed out that the comments in my preceding post apply only to Ohio public sector union collective bargaining situations. They may not apply in other states.

Of course, private sector collective bargaining is another animal altogether.



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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 17 2011 at 7:00am
Article in today's Journal while we are on the subject of public workers.....

The governor’s salary is $148,886; the highest paid state employee earned $319,887.

Among the 141 who pulled down larger checks: 54 psychiatrists and 49 doctors who work in the departments of mental health, corrections or workers’ compensation, 11 administrative staffers, and seven department directors

As the highest paid state employee, Zinovi Goubar, 58, made $319,887 in 2010 as a psychiatrist for the Department of Mental Health.

A PSYCHIATRIST PULLING DOWN THESE WAGES? FOR WHAT? WHAT DOES THIS PERSON DO ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS TO WARRANT THIS PAY?

Weekly pay data from this year shows that once again more than 100 psychiatrists and physicians and a handful of department directors, administrators and appointees are on track to make more than the governor

CAN ANYONE GIVE A REASON WHY THE STATE NEEDS SO MANY PSYCHIATRISTS?

I WOULD IMAGINE THAT ALL STATE GOVERNMENTS ARE OVERSTAFFED JUST LIKE THE FED GOVERNMENT IS. THERE NEEDS TO BE AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT IN BOTH GOV. LEVELS TO EVALUATE THE LAYERS, EVALUATE THE DAILY TASKS OF THE JOB, THE NEED FOR ALL THE JOBS AND AN ELIMINATION OF DUPLICATE MULTI-LAYER POSITIONS PLUS A REDUCTION OF THE MIDDLE AND UPPER MANAGEMENT POSITIONS IN ALL GOV. LEVELS. WE DON'T NEED ALL THESE DIRECTORS,ASSIST. DIRECTORS, MANAGERS, ASSIST. MANAGERS, SUPERVISOR AND GROUP LEADER LEVELS. ALL JUST GLORIFIED, OVERPAID PAPER SHUFFLERS. WORKER- MANAGER-TOP DOG. DO YOU REALLY NEED ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS REPORTING SCHEME?. JMO


Posted By: silver bells
Date Posted: Jun 17 2011 at 4:00pm

Some things you should know about the Ohio Educators’ Association (OEA) and National Educators’ Association (NEA). These are pleasant names for the teachers’ unions.

By Ohio law, teachers must pay union dues to get employment. Dues are not cheap, approaching $1,000 per teacher each year. Most teachers don’t know that their dues pay for three levels of unions: local, state and national. How is that money used? At the national level, it’s distributed to a variety of liberal causes. Whether its members would ever support or approve of those causes is completely irrelevant.

Moreover, if you were a teacher in Ohio and your husband or wife were running for a political office, and the unions were opposed to your spouse’s politics, they would be using your dues for attack ads against your spouse. Would you have any say in this insanity? No.

The public sector unions are no different today than any other overweight bureaucracy. First and foremost, they seek to perpetuate themselves and thus will do anything to hold on to their power and grow it. The leaders are not there for the rank and file-they are there for themselves. They are corrupt, and they are determined to amass the money that power depends on. Here is a recent illustration of how the Ohio Educators' Association union has done exactly that:

This is part of an article from the June OEA magazine--

“By an overwhelming majority, the OEA Representative Assembly voted to approve a one-time $54 dues assessment for active regular members and a one-time $25 dues assessment for education support professional members for the funding of the effort to pass the referendum petition and support of the We Are Ohio campaign. While exempting student and retired members, the assessment will raise approximately $5 million for the SB 5 repeal referendum campaign. The Ohio Education Association represents 128,000 teachers, faculty members and support professionals in Ohio's public schools, colleges and universities.”

$5 million dollars.

Here is the link to read the complete article:

http://www.swoea.org/news/news-detail.asp?id=712

Note that this tasty bit of information is ALLLL the way toward the end of the article, which itself appears toward the end of the magazine, which is mainly devoted to covering all of the “horrible” effects of SB 5 and thus the need to repeal it (This is just in case you were thinking that repealing SB 5 was low priority information.).

Were teachers asked at the local level if they would support this “assessment”? No. The unions will tell you that this is what the representatives are for.

Okay. Then were teachers sent a message from their local “representatives” about this assessment and what it was going to be used for? No. Would this have been hard to do? No. Should it have been done? Absolutely. Do most teachers even know about this? No. But they will find out in August.

Is there a reason why they were not told individually, but rather had to read all the way towards the end of the OEA magazine to discover it? What do you think?

If you were a teacher just making it from paycheck to paycheck or whose husband or wife had lost a job, or, the unthinkable, didn’t support repeal of SB 5, what would your reaction be? I can tell you that many teachers despise the unions and the dues, and have no confidence that the unions are out there working for their best interests.

So, why will the unions sell their own mothers to hold on to collective bargaining? Power and money.

 




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