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Pioneer Cemetery Ceremony

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Printed Date: Nov 22 2024 at 3:48am


Topic: Pioneer Cemetery Ceremony
Posted By: VietVet
Subject: Pioneer Cemetery Ceremony
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 6:28am
Today's Journal....

Veterans event planned at historic cemetery

MIDDLETOWN — A local board hopes an event meant to remember veterans also will remind people of the repairs needed at a historic cemetery.

The Middletown Cemetery Board is sponsoring a special Memorial Day event May 28 to commemorate the 238 veterans buried at the Middletown Cemetery on First Avenue.

The board plans to pass out information about the cemetery, including a list of the veterans buried there. They are hoping to raise awareness about the state of the cemetery and solicit donations, said board Chairman Michael McNeil.


A VERY NICE IDEA AND A GOOD WAY TO BRING THE LONG FORGOTTEN ABOUT CEMETERY BACK IN VIEW.

But wait......

Cemetery board members will be volunteering time and supplies to spruce up the cemetery May 21. Armbruster Florist Inc. will donate flowers to be planted in the beds near the entrance, said board member Josh Toms

LET'S SEE, THIS WAS DONE A WHILE BACK BY MS. MOON AND HER VOLUNTEERS AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE, I BELIEVE, AND, AS I RECALL, WAS ALL TORN OUT BY GILLELAND AND COMPANY (AND THE PLANTS TAKEN WHERE?) BECAUSE IT WAS TOO MUCH OF A MAINTENANCE ISSUE DUE TO A LACK OF CITY WORKER MANPOWER......NOW, IT'S OK TO DO? WHY IS IT DIFFERENT NOW?

WONDER WHY ALL THE SUDDEN ACTIVITY AT THE CEMETERY NOW? A NEW BOARD CONCEIVED, NEW FLOWERS BY ARMBRUSTER FLORIST, BOARD VOLUNTEERS, GRANTS FOR THE VAULT REPAIR......COULD IT BE THE RESULT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN COLUMBUS AS A RESULT OF THE COMPLAINTS FROM A FEW CITIZENS PERHAPS? COULD IT BE A PASSIFICATION MOVE BY THE CITY TO APPEASE THE DETRACTORS?



Replies:
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 8:06am
Vet,
    Do you suppose the Ohio Revised Code explains some of what is going on?
 

759.42 Municipal corporation or township may transfer cemetery property to cemetery association.

The legislative authority of a municipal corporation and the board of township trustees may transfer to an incorporated cemetery association the lands, lots, and improvements of a cemetery owned and controlled by the municipal corporation or township for cemetery purposes. The association shall assume all legal debts on the cemeteries so transferred.

Effective Date: 10-01-1953



Posted By: swohio75
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 8:55am
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Today's Journal....

WONDER WHY ALL THE SUDDEN ACTIVITY AT THE CEMETERY NOW? A NEW BOARD CONCEIVED, NEW FLOWERS BY ARMBRUSTER FLORIST, BOARD VOLUNTEERS, GRANTS FOR THE VAULT REPAIR......COULD IT BE THE RESULT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN COLUMBUS AS A RESULT OF THE COMPLAINTS FROM A FEW CITIZENS PERHAPS? COULD IT BE A PASSIFICATION MOVE BY THE CITY TO APPEASE THE DETRACTORS?
 
Dunno.  The person that filed the complaint was a no-show at the hearing....


Posted By: Murdock
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 8:35pm
Armbruster Florist always donated flowers to the cemetery from what I understand. Clap


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 29 2011 at 8:09pm

" Communication Breakdown" as my hero Robert Plant sang is quite fitting. Three sides to the story, I would suggest we move on and try to support these folks and make a difference. I think I can speak for Ms. Moon that this is what she wants. Armbrusters only want the best for this city and more than not they have given for decades to volun. groups to make this town a better place to live.



Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Apr 30 2011 at 4:46am
How long until Gilleland sends her kamikaze mowers on a bonzai run through these new flower beds?


Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Apr 30 2011 at 8:21am
   I guess this section of the Ohio Revised Code went by everyone. If the city has transfered ownership to the new cemetery commision then the city is no longer the owner and the commission is responsible for all obligations.
      Paul Nagy


Posted By: SupportMiddletown
Date Posted: Apr 30 2011 at 9:08am
^And why would the commission want that to happen? They would lose city funds and gain the liability.


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 30 2011 at 11:25am

We all know who should be taking care of this cemetery and IMO to create a board with no budget is insane but council allowed this to happen. Since I don't see this board going away anytime soon or a huge gathering of taxpayers showing up at the next council meeting to protest this move all I can do is try and support those folks who are involved. Now to focus on the IMO bigger problem you don't have to look very far, a city manager who can't make a decision or utilize a city staff to handle this, which by the way I feel the down line city folks can do.



Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Apr 30 2011 at 12:52pm
Supportmiddletown,
      I'm not certain but I thought they got some funding from the city and Middletown Community Foundation when it was set up. It wasn't enough to take care of it all. Also, didn't they make an effort to raise funds from the community but were not successful? This is a hard time to raise money.
     The Veterans program may be designed to do just that. In order to understand a little of why they do things the way they do you have to look at who is involved.
     paul nagy


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 05 2011 at 11:29am
It is a very nice gesture on the part of the Community Foundation and Mr. Gordon to assign $9300 toward the repair of the tombstones.

From the Journal....

Community foundation awards nearly $100K in grants

•City of Middletown: $9,308 to repair tombstones in Pioneer Cemetery.

It would appear that we now have more activity and interest occuring as compared to the past. The new committee seems to be moving toward improvement for the cemetery. Nice to see.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 06 2011 at 3:01am

I would like to thank Armbrusters for donating flowers again this year for the cemetery entry.

I would also like to thank the Middletown Community Foundation for the tombstone grant. Without their support over the past 7 years the Middletown Cemetery would still be a weed field.

My grant money for the restoration of the vault can be used by the new cemetery board.

Again a group of volunteers have stepped foreward....however....what will the City do to help these volunteers. Why is it that the City has money for flowers and mulch for the parks but not for the cemetery? Why are the flowers from the cemetery now in other parks in the City? If they couldn't take care of the flowers at the cemetery how can they take care of them at other locations??
Yep I've still got lots of questions......


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 10 2011 at 3:26am

"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.
For what is the worth of human life, unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors
by the records of history."    
      
 Cicero
 Roman Statesman, Author, Philosopher


Over the years I have been asked numerous times why I’m so passionate about history and the restoration of the old Middletown Cemetery. The above quote always comes to mind.

As conscientious members of society it is our responsibility to care for these burial sites of our respected dead. Benjamin Franklin said, “Show me your burial grounds and I’ll show you a measure of the civility of a community.” Accepting this responsibility we help to preserve a resource that will benefit not only us but future generations.

Historic cemeteries are important cultural, architectural and archaeological resources. They provide us with information on our community’s history. Often a cemetery is the only remnant left from early settlements and as such is a vital link with the past. They are an invaluable educational tool whether we seek to research genealogy, educate our youth or delve into local history. They provide quiet places to commemorate the deceased, whether it be of a most personal nature, or on a local, regional, or even national scale. Originally located in agricultural areas that are now becoming more urbanized, early cemeteries can provide a place for quiet reflection and solitude and much needed open space. Buildings, fencing and other ancillary features are artifacts that demonstrate historic stylistic trends and construction methods.


These important places may provide us with some of the earliest written local history. Headstones reveal names and dates for locally significant persons. They offer glimpses into local illness and epidemics and tell of a community’s sacrifices in our nation’s wars. The same headstones provide us with samples of local folk art and, particularly after the Civil War, reflect a substantial amount of popular cultural standardization of monument forms and motifs. They were transmitted through such sources as design books and catalogs.

The
Middletown Cemetery is the "Time Capsule" of our community and it is our responsibility to protect, preserve, and restore it for future generations.

I’m pleased to announce that the Middletown Cemetery Board will vote on the vendor to restore the tombstones in Sections 3 and 4 at the cemetery on Wednesday evening. These are the oldest section just as you go through the gates on the right and left sides.

I will assure you that John Walters is the most qualified man for this project. Visit his web page at
http://www.graveyardgroomer.com/ - http://www.graveyardgroomer.com .

Over the summer I hope you will visit the cemetery and watch John work his magic on the old tombstones. I will post the dates later.

Again I would like to thank the Middletown Community Foundation for their continued support of this project.





Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: May 10 2011 at 7:11am
If anyone attends the meeting I would encourage you to ask what is happening in regards to locking the gate at the end of the day. This topic has been bounced around like a ping pong ball. And yes I have spoken to Public Works about this subject. Not that it will stop the die hard punks who get off on destructive behavior but it would seem to me that if your spending nine grand of donated money a plan might be in place to protect the work the best you can. Over-time is the cities reasoning for not wanting to open and close the gate. I would think the city manager could lay the law down(LOL) for one of the many depts. to handle this. Nice piece Ms. Moon. 


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: May 10 2011 at 7:34am
Thank you ground swat
The Middletown Community Foundation made locking the gates a condition of giving this grant for the restoration of the tombstones at the Middletown Cemetery.
Every time a tombstone is knocked down the cost is $100-200 to reset and or repair and I'm sorry to tell you but hundreds of tombstones are down and broken at the cemetery. Many are buried and will be uncovered and reset as we restore a section at a time.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 11 2011 at 2:51pm
Looks like your efforts toward the Pioneer Cemetery are starting to pay off Vivian. Perhaps the complaint in Columbus, about the lack of care for the cemetery did some good also.

Journal story on June 11, 2011......

Thumbs up to members of local Boy Scout Troop 572 who spent several hours on May 28 — just before Memorial Day — working at the Middletown Cemetery, with cemetery board member Deb Morrison, to place markers and American flags on the graves of the 255 known veterans buried there. According to staff writer Rick McCrabb, members of the combined Honor Guard were also on hand to raise the flag and fire a 21-gun salute in honor of the veterans. A couple of the Scouts also plan to repair or replace missing gravestone markers as Eagle Scout projects. “It was a way to give back to the community, to continue a connection to the community,” troop committee chairman Mike Osborne told McCrabb.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 18 2011 at 9:01am
Cemetery may get automated gate to stop vandals

Today's Journal...

MIDDLETOWN — An automated gate may be installed to stop vandalism at the Middletown Pioneer Cemetery.

The cemetery already has a gate that can be padlocked. But the city — which is responsible for the cemetery’s upkeep — does not have a caretaker on staff to lock and unlock that gate, Picard said.

Hiring a caretaker would cost the city approximately $21,000, Picard said, a salary the city cannot afford. BUT THEY CAN AFFORD REHIRING PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT POSITIONS. AFFORD EXTRAVAGANT SALARIES FOR THEIR PUBLIC WORKERS....



WHY CONSIDER THE COST OF AN AUTOMATIC GATE? THERE IS COST INVOLVED WITH THAT.

HOW ABOUT, AT THE BEGINNING AND END OF THE DAY, HANDING A CITY WORKER THE KEY, AND, AS THEY PASS BY THE CEMETERY ON THEIR WAY TO/FROM WORK, STOP AND UNLOCK/LOCK THE FRIKKIN' GATE? IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. INCORPORATE IT INTO SOMEONES JOB DUTIES FOR THE COST OF WHAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY PAYING THEM OR IS THE CITY INTIMIDATED ABOUT THE UNION COMPLAINING ABOUT IT? GIVE IT TO SOME DIRECTOR TO DO. THE CITY HAS PLENTY OF THEM. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO HIRE FOR THIS?


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jun 18 2011 at 10:13am

These clowns in the City building need to pack up and leave,what idiotsAngryAngry

I agree 100% with your logic on this Vet.How hard would it be to have a patrolmen etc.. to lock the gates.
It just boggles my mind how these city officials have handled this whole cemetary issue,how disrespectful to all the folks buried there.How could any possible new comers to this city want to live and or move their businesses here? I mean wouldn't you think that how we treat this cemetary show the true character of this city?


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 18 2011 at 3:59pm
Gentlemen
I was at the last cemetery board meeting when they were discussing this new automated gate. Until the city is willing to repair the fences and cut down the trees that are in the fence line on the east side of the cemetery the kids will continue to vandalize the cemetery. It’s just that plain and simply.
Seven years later and the city still can’t fix a fence or lock a gate at the cemetery…mercy.




Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 18 2011 at 7:45pm
If the city has money to fence the area around the old Roosevelt school site as 409's pictures indicate, why don't they send the fence crew from Roosevelt over to the cemetery for some fence fixin'? It kinda negates the gate security idea if there are enough holes in the perimeter fence to allow access, doesn't it?


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 19 2011 at 12:35am
Vet
You can bet we haven't heard the end of the story of the fenced area at Roosevelt School and it ain't got nothing to do with trash ...
Wonder what the price tag and from which fund this improvement was paid for???
I'm put in a request Monday morning


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jun 19 2011 at 1:38am

Attention Kmart shoppers,we need a few good Men and or Women to please run for Council that have some common sense and can provide some leadership.



Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Jun 20 2011 at 9:24am
Was that the City that put the fence around the Roosevelt school property or was it the MCSD? I thought that Middletown City Scools still owned that property?


Posted By: ViscountValmont
Date Posted: Jun 21 2011 at 7:00pm
if i may, the reason the board does not have city employees doing the locking/unlocking of the gates is because of labor unions. the price is expected to be overtime, and since the board has no budget to speak of, there is little use in discussing that as a prospect. almost every problem involved is a giant catch 22. please refrain from calling the board moronic without knowing your facts, or at least showing up for a meeting.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 21 2011 at 7:14pm
If the locking/unlocking of the gate has not been discussed/negotiated with the union as one of their job functions, it isn't an issue is it? If this statement is true, and the union involvement isn't a factor, why not ask a non-union employee of the city to lock/unlock the gates to and from work and leave the union totally out of it. Everything doesn't have to be run through the union does it?


Posted By: ViscountValmont
Date Posted: Jun 21 2011 at 7:38pm
i am on the board, sir. i am telling you, ALL options have been discussed to no end. it comes down to BEING TOLD what is and isn't an option. the board is of an advisory capacity, not a decision making body. if compliance of either council or administration is lacking, we simply do not have the ability to magically make something happen. we are currently discussing regular citizen volunteers.



Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 21 2011 at 8:40pm
I understand your dilemma with the city. If it is any consolation, they don't listen to the citizens either. Just watch the look on the council member's faces as well as the city manager when one offers comments during the citizens comments portion of any council meeting and you will get the "I'm not interested in what you have to say-your time is up" look.

The city leaders will not listen to anyone in this city EXCEPT those in that special circle of influence, sometimes referred to as MMF and their associates. They have the nasty habit of telling everyone how it will be. That is why they all must go on council with the city manager and her constituents to follow her out of town....one way.

The city may squelch the regular citizen volunteer idea as well. Most city leaders are not good for this city. JMO


Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Jun 22 2011 at 9:00am
A suggestion. Since it appears that most government bodies (not just our city mind you, but all over our great nation) really like to come up with inventive ways of repackaging items, perhaps this idea might work:

With the lack of lighting and multiple fall hazards inside the cemetery, leaving the gates open in the evening poses a potential public safety hazard along with potential liability towards the City. With this in mind, that leaving the gates open at night is a public safety problem, then the duty of securing the facility by closing and locking the gates in the evening could easily be shifted to the MPD patrol unit for that area. It would not be an overtime situation since there are MPD patrol units for that geographic area pretty much 24/7. Additionally, doing this should cause a reduction in other crimes (like vandalism) that occur in the property, which is always a goal of the MPD.

Since unlocking and opening the gates in the morning is not a public safety issue, it can be done during straight time by a municipal employee as part of their everyday job duties along with opening gates at other municipal properties like Smith Park, etc.


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 22 2011 at 10:25am

So...City Hall is happy to shell out several thousand bucks to demo perfectly good standard street lights on S. Main Street and replace them with faux olde tyme gas lights, but they can't spare $1,700 for an electronic gate for HISTORIC Pioneer Cemetery???

What if the Cemetery Board recommends a faux olde tyme gate with an electronic lock???  Maybe that would convince Council???


-------------
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Jun 22 2011 at 12:45pm
Mike, you'd have to add that the Mayor would also need to live right next door to the cemetery to get that type of support, the reason for the Thatcher bailout, now the Sr. Citizen bailout, and so forth. These two levies will riase more money than the city puts in street maintenance. Funny Mr. Picard says it can't afford the money for the cemetery lock but the street lamps get passed without much thought nor debate.
 
As I don't watch the council meetings on television, can you tell me what happened to our tea party conservative, Josh Lambaugh? I am not hearing dissent on these appaling and self serving levies, is anyone speaking for ll citizens or just a few that have a vested interest?
 
Why are the Sr Citizen Center meners, who pay monthly dues, entitled to have a levy put on their behalf, when they drive their own membership numbers, falt, and monthly revenue? Will council ever give consideration for anyone below senior age limit, like the kids that should be attracted to neighborhoods in Middletown, to fill the schools, that may want to swim?
 
Maybe the Middletown Foundation will kickin the $$$ for the gate, but your point, well made. What is an excuse for one situation is an opportunity for another. No money for this, but lots of money for that. Its te Middletown Way.
 
If you look at the Senior Citizen Center Board, you'll see Scorti, Shew, all the "insiders" who pull the strings on council and the city leadership. There must be a perk ordinance not easily found which says, "Mayor will have first dibs at street repair, new street lamps, and landscaping with his/her annual salary of $10,000.  


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 22 2011 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by acclaro acclaro wrote:

... As I don't watch the council meetings on television, can you tell me what happened to our tea party conservative, Josh Lambaugh? ...
Acclaro,

Mr. Laubach had a schedule conflict and had to leave early.

In order to accommodate him (or, more likely, in order to be sure that the shot-callers got what they wanted, when they wanted it), Mayor Lawrence P. Mulligan, Jr. rearranged the agenda. The three legislative items requiring six votes (Councilman “Allen the Abstainer” was absent) were moved up in the agenda, the usual unanimous vote was held, and Mr. Laubach left.

The olde tyme gas light issue ended up on the agenda after Mr. Laubach’s departure.

It should be noted that this issue is not final. It will still require a Public Hearing, and then a vote on the actual construction contract. The Law Director has already conspired with a majority of city council and the city manager is a recent semi-secret business meeting to place this $500,000 + construction contract on a “motion agenda” (in violation of council rules) instead of the legislative agenda so that they could pass it, in essence, as an EMERGENCY, with only 4 or 5 votes. (Mayor Lawrence P. Mulligan, Jr. will have to abstain, although I'm certain that his abstention will be counted as a "YES" by Law Director Landen, if necessary.) 



-------------
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jun 22 2011 at 10:50pm
Cant the state be called in to sort this out ? I mean if they are doing illegal things wouldnt they have to answer to someone for it?


Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 23 2011 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Bocephus Bocephus wrote:

Cant the state be called in to sort this out ? I mean if they are doing illegal things wouldnt they have to answer to someone for it?
Bo,

Well, it is within the mayor's authority to alter the agenda. It would behoove another council member to object, call for a vote against it and prevail in order to stop it. However, on the face of it, it is often the correct thing to do, that is to change the agenda to advance an item if a council member has to leave, or to delay an item if a council member is going to be late to arrive. It would be difficult to prove that this was done for nefarious purposes if there were, indeed, legitimate reasons for other items to be moved on the same night’s agenda.

As far as council breaking their own rules, while this may be immoral and unethical, it is probably not illegal in and of itself. It might be possible for citizens to file a complaint with the Ethics Commission, or a Common Pleas Court plea to compel council to follow their own rules. Both of these things take more time for a non-lawyer to do than is available before the fact. The Common Pleas route also takes money.

I feel that Landen’s practice of claiming that “abstentions count with the majority” would certainly be struck down if properly challenged in the courts as it is absolutely ludicrous, but this also requires the expenditure of the money necessary to hire a good lawyer for a court challenge. All this practice does is allow a council member who has an interest in any contract, job, work or service for the City to benefit by same simply by “abstaining” rather than excusing himself (or herself) from the vote or voting “present”. It is exactly the same as voting with the majority when it is something that the “friends of City Hall” want. You never see this “abstentions count with the majority” farce invoked when the “majority” has voted against the shot-callers’ instructions.



-------------
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012


Posted By: Bocephus
Date Posted: Jun 23 2011 at 2:45am
So in other words its just sleazy politics,flaunt it in front of our eyes and count on apathy just like the big boys in washington dc.


Posted By: ViscountValmont
Date Posted: Jun 23 2011 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

So...City Hall is happy to shell out several thousand bucks to demo perfectly good standard street lights on S. Main Street and replace them with faux olde tyme gas lights, but they can't spare $1,700 for an electronic gate for HISTORIC Pioneer Cemetery???

What if the Cemetery Board recommends a faux olde tyme gate with an electronic lock???  Maybe that would convince Council???



Hahaha, good call on the old tyme lights for the cemetery, Mike. Maybe we should do that?! :-) But the electronic gate is much more than 1,700. It's a little over 6 grand. And the most recent article in the Journal had many errors in it, which we all discussed at the meeting. I encourage everyone to take that article with a grain of salt. Some things Mr. Picard said were misconstrued. And clearly this isn't their first time doing as such. But, I feel it is very important to at least TRY to keep people as informed as possible on the events as they progress.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 23 2011 at 3:47pm
I appreciate the cemetery board's efforts since they organized. It would appear, since the board's inception, that there has been attempts to right the long time neglect and dishonor to the ones buried there and their families. My grandfather's mother, father and brother are buried there. Glad to see activity to make the place a little nicer. Your efforts are well received.


Posted By: ViscountValmont
Date Posted: Jun 24 2011 at 7:59pm
Thank you. We are sincerely trying. And we always appreciate hearing from descendants of those resting there. It is citizens like you that are most important to the cause as you have "grandfathered" rights over being buried yourselves. This is certainly not to downplay the role of MANY others who have furthered this cause more than we could have ever imagined, even without the inherent drive behind family members residing at the cemetery. But when it comes down to it, it will be descendants that "the brass" will want to hear from, and will have an ultimate say about personal wishes to the city as to what needs to be done, in my humble opinion. Again, many thanks.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 25 2011 at 8:02am

Viscount Valmont

It is the families of those buried at the
Middletown Cemetery that have called and complained about the condition year after year and the nothing was ever corrected.

Viscount, it is not up to the family members to solve the problems of the cemetery it is the City since the law clearly states that it is their responsibility and what needs to be done at the cemetery. At the last meeting I attended I stated that tombstones had been removed from the graves and needed to be replaced.  You didn’t seem to think this was a serious problem that needed any action. It is against the law to deface or move a tombstone from a grave…period….and to add to this problem….these tombstones have been off the graves for at least 15 years. I have requested every year for 6 years that this problem be solved. Soooo please tell me what a reasonable amount of time should be for the city to place these stones back on the gravesites.

So once again I will tell you that the
Middletown Cemetery is not in compliance with ORC 4767.06



Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 25 2011 at 9:42pm

So do you think it is ok to put the stones back in the cemetery on the ground so that they can be mowed over and grown over where they may never be found?  I know that the stones were removed from the cemetery vault.  At this point in my opinion the stones are in a place where they will not be destroyed any further and will be placed back on the graves that they belong on.  The cemetery board was created so that it might help get things done for the cemetery that the City of Middletown honestly does not want to take care of.   So if everyone would please let the Board  do the work that they were charged to do maybe they can get the cemetery back to what Vivian refers to as ORC4767.06.



Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 5:04am
Summertime1957
So do you think it is ok to put the stones back in the cemetery on the ground so that they can be mowed over and grown over where they may never be found? 
Yes, I want all the tombstones back in the cemetery on the graves where they belong…ASAP….In fact that is the only place that they do belong at any time.
At this point in my opinion the stones are in a place where they will not be destroyed any further and will be placed back on the graves that they belong on. 

You really need to read ORC4767.06 because your opinion is in error on this fact. It is against the law for these stones to remain off these graves.

The Middletown Cemetery has not been in compliance with the law for many years.

The cemetery board was created so that it might help get things done for the cemetery that the City of Middletown honestly does not want to take care of.   

Wow, then you have a lot of work to get completed at the cemetery.
So if everyone would please let the Board do the work that they were charged to do maybe they can get the cemetery back to what Vivian refers to as ORC4767.06.
Well, Summertime, from where I’m sitting, the only person stopping the board is the board.



Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 9:58am
 The name is Summerrrain1957 not Summertime 1957. 
 
First:  I know you have been fighting with the city for years over this cemetery and I now find it to be a battle between you and the City Manager so why not back off a bit and let someone else ( THE BOARD)  try to get something done in the cemetery.  I know from experience in the past that the City leaders do not look kindly on being told how to do their job even if they are not doing their jobs correctly and they are working for the people of this town.  I myself appreciate everything that you have done over the last however many years and I do indeed hope that this all can be worked out so that the Cemetery gets back up to code.
 
Second:  I have read the ORC 4767.06 and like I said it was "MY OPINION" that the best place for these stones right now is where they are at.  I also want the Stones replaced where they were at ,and I am sure they will be replaced in the cemetery  sooner than later.
 
Third:  I do believe that the Cemetery Board has alot of work to do, however the New Board needs the People of Middletown behind them to make sure the items they are working on get accomplished.
 
Last:  Where are all these people that are complaining to you about the Cemetery?  Are they going to the board meetings and if not WHY?  They need to be heard at the meetings. I understand that someone filed a complaint with the state and then did not even show up at the meeting in Columbus WHY NOT? Anyway  I did not get on here to argue about the cemetery.  I have my feelings on it too since my children have family buried there.  I am sure it will work out with the new Board in due time it will not be an overnight process to fix what has been let go for many many years..


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 10:43am
The name is Summerrrain1957 not Summertime 1957.
First: I know you have been fighting with the city for years over this cemetery and I now find it to be a battle between you and the City Manager so why not back off a bit and let someone else ( THE BOARD) try to get something done in the cemetery. I know from experience in the past that the City leaders do not look kindly on being told how to do their job even if they are not doing their jobs correctly and they are working for the people of this town. I myself appreciate everything that you have done over the last however many years and I do indeed hope that this all can be worked out so that the Cemetery gets back up to code.
Thats where the problem is,are spineless leaders have forgotten who pays their damn sarlies.They are nothing but liars and backstabbers and everyone of them ought to be booted out of office.Its not going to get any better till they do.Tongue
 
 
 


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 11:25am
LMAO...  glad you are all getting a laugh out of the mess that has come out of the City and Ms Moon fighting, which in the end will be a black eye for the cemetery and the Vault will be torn down in November. 
 
Thats where the problem is,are spineless leaders have forgotten who pays their damn sarlies.They are nothing but liars and backstabbers and everyone of them ought to be booted out of office.Its not going to get any better till they do.  
 
Hmmm Really???
 
Even if the Management changes downtown problems will still exist with the cemetery...  this has been going on for years not just since JG has been City Manager.  Think about it.  The city does not want to put any money or as little as possible into the cemetery.  that is why the board is trying to do what they can to save the vault and get the cemetery back into cpmpliance
 
If all the people on this blog that are complaining about the cemetery would stop bitchin about how the City is or is not doing their job with this Cemetery Problem and step up and support the New Board then maybe, just maybe there would be changes as to the way the cemetery is taken care of. 
 
I just think there are people out there that want to keep the fire stoked and this will not get the Board anywhere except maybe dissolved come November.
 


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Summerrain1957 Summerrain1957 wrote:

LMAO...  glad you are all getting a laugh out of the mess that has come out of the City and Ms Moon fighting, which in the end will be a black eye for the cemetery and the Vault will be torn down in November. 
 
Thats where the problem is,are spineless leaders have forgotten who pays their damn sarlies.They are nothing but liars and backstabbers and everyone of them ought to be booted out of office.Its not going to get any better till they do.  
 
Hmmm Really???
 
Even if the Management changes downtown problems will still exist with the cemetery...  this has been going on for years not just since JG has been City Manager.  Think about it.  The city does not want to put any money or as little as possible into the cemetery.  that is why the board is trying to do what they can to save the vault and get the cemetery back into cpmpliance
 
If all the people on this blog that are complaining about the cemetery would stop bitchin about how the City is or is not doing their job with this Cemetery Problem and step up and support the New Board then maybe, just maybe there would be changes as to the way the cemetery is taken care of. 
 
I just think there are people out there that want to keep the fire stoked and this will not get the Board anywhere except maybe dissolved come November.
 
I get a laugh everytime the spinless council and JG open their mouths,cos 99.999% of the time its a lie.They should of thought about that when they took money out of the CemetaryFund to pay for something else.Their thinking is rob peter to pay paul. Until each one of them are off the payroll many people of Middletown arent going to be happy.I have found out that alot of people in this town wont open their mouths cos of fear of repucution.Not me,I say what I want and if they cant handle it then guess what,I DONT CARE.They can scratch their ass and get happy.Smile


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 1:20pm
well have you been to a meeting yet to have your say?  Why Not? As long as people only complain behind the scenes and not in an open forum NOTHING will be solved.  Thank you


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 1:48pm
Summerrain 1957- I appreciate the board's efforts as I stated 4 or 5 posts before your posts. I too, am not a fan of the city leaders in many areas including the way they have handled the vault, the cemetery upkeep and the apparent lack of caring for the site over the years.

I agree with you about backing off and letting the cemetery board take the lead and try to right the ship getting the cemetery back up to standard. I will differ with you on your comments concerning the defense of the city leaders, the city manager in particular. IMO, as I have stated before, she is not good for this city as she has charted the wrong direction for this town to progress. We are a regressive town and the joke of SW Ohio. Has been for 20+ years. It is her, some of her staff and her predecessors who have carved a destructive path for this town and, like LMAQ has stated, some need to be run out of town and new council people need to be elected as this council is grossly misguided in it's decision making. Becker, Picard, Mulligan and Allen need to be eliminated from council. The Law Director, The Planning Director and the city manager need to go. They have done enough damage. JMO

You state:

"As long as people only complain behind the scenes and not in an open forum NOTHING will be solved. Thank you"

I must respond to your statement. I have been to many forums and council meetings over the years. Have spoken before council for the three minute "Citizens Comments" portion of the meeting. Have spoken at the various "talks with councilmembers" forums that Laubach, Marconi and others have had in the past. They all listen. Council never makes a comment or answers your questions directed to them. They never agree or admit that they agree. They never offer a solution on the spot. They usually give the patented "city response" and they are masters at dancing around the content of the question. In other words, you are hard-pressed to get a straight, honest answer from anyone on council nor in the city building. THAT is why most people don't approach this city government. THE PEOPLE never receive honesty from our elected and hired officials. Again, JMO.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by VietVet VietVet wrote:

Summerrain 1957- I appreciate the board's efforts as I stated 4 or 5 posts before your posts. I too, am not a fan of the city leaders in many areas including the way they have handled the vault, the cemetery upkeep and the apparent lack of caring for the site over the years.

I agree with you about backing off and letting the cemetery board take the lead and try to right the ship getting the cemetery back up to standard. I will differ with you on your comments concerning the defense of the city leaders, the city manager in particular. IMO, as I have stated before, she is not good for this city as she has charted the wrong direction for this town to progress. We are a regressive town and the joke of SW Ohio. Has been for 20+ years. It is her, some of her staff and her predecessors who have carved a destructive path for this town and, like LMAO has stated, some need to be run out of town and new council people need to be elected as this council is grossly misguided in it's decision making. Becker, Picard, Mulligan and Allen need to be eliminated from council. The Law Director, The Planning Director and the city manager need to go. They have done enough damage. JMO


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 1:54pm
The board is split apart, the current or replaced? Chair can't even get a clear direction or understanding what their role is IMO. And yes I have been to the meetings. All good hearted and caring people giving up time to help solve some of the issues.


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 3:10pm
to Viet-Vet:   I agree with all that, and i am not defending city management at all. It has been going on for the  last 20 or so years and this is just my comment on the cemetery.
 
I believe that there is a definate feud going on between the City Manager and Ms Moon over the Cemetery and it is also my belief that this is due inpart to Ms Moon telling the city how to do their job.  which I stated before they will not tolerate.
 
I know that Ms G is running this city into the ground with the rest of City Management and I see businesses closing and leaving town every week  its sad.  I personally did not vote for any of the people on the council, and yes we are as a city an embarassment to SW Ohio. 
 
to ground swat:  The board is split apart...  From what I am hearing the Chair gets/got his direction from one person only, and we all know who that is...   So In my opinion if Ms G is dictating how the new cemetery board runs and what they can say and who they can and cannot talk to what is the point?
 
I learn new stuff everyday about this problem at the Cemetery and I am hoping that come November people will speak up and let the City Management know that it will be the wrong thing to do in tearing down the vault..  I know the board is seeking funds for the vault through private donations and grants and hope they can make their goal.


Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 4:48pm
Summerrain 1957 states "I believe that there is a definate feud going on between the City Manager and Ms Moon over the Cemetery and it is also my belief that this is due inpart to Ms Moon telling the city how to do their job. which I stated before they will not tolerate"

BUT SOMEONE WHO CARED HAD TO TELL THE CITY HOW TO DO THEIR JOB BECAUSE THEY WERE IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW IN MANY ASPECTS OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES. IT JUST HAPPENED TO BE MS. MOON, WHO WAS PERSISTENT ENOUGH TO NOT LET IT RIDE BUT RATHER CALL THEM ON IT. SHOULD HAPPEN MORE IMO. THE CITY, ESPECIALLY THE CITY MANAGER, WAS VINDICTIVE IN THE HANDLING OF MS. MOON'S EFFORTS TOWARD THE BEAUTIFICATION OF THE CEMETERY. TO REMOVE THE NICE PLANTED, MULCHED ENTRYWAY BY THE GATE WAS JUST ASININE. IT SHOWED A TOTAL LACK OF MATURITY IN THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED AND REMINDED ME OF THE PLAYGROUND BULLY SYNDROME. CHILDISH.

SOME OF US REALLY DON'T GIVE A DAM WHETHER THE CITY WILL "TOLERATE" IT OR NOT. SOME OF US ARE NOT INTIMIDATED BY THESE SO-CALLED CITY LEADERS. WE HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THEM BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE AND THE DESTRUCTION THEY ARE CAUSING. WHEN THE PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THEM AND THEIR ATTITUDE, THE DEADWOOD PURGE WILL BE MADE AND, HOPEFULLY, THEY WILL LEAVE TOWN, ALLOWING US TO "TAKE OUT THE TRASH". PERHAPS THE NEW PEOPLE IN CHARGE WILL ALLOW US TO FORGET THIS SAD TIME IN THE CITY'S HISTORY.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 26 2011 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Summerrain1957 Summerrain1957 wrote:

well have you been to a meeting yet to have your say?  Why Not? As long as people only complain behind the scenes and not in an open forum NOTHING will be solved.  Thank you
I have been to plenty of meetings thank you very much.How about yourself? As Vet said,yea they might listen to you but it goes through one ear and out the other.When Queen Judy made the city take Ms Moons plants and mulch out I lost all respect for the spineless people that run this city.Another thing that irked my ass was the city Leaseing out one of the parks out to a ball team and this ball team promised so many things.Well guess what,none of it happen and its been a few years now.But again we hear Queen Judy and the rest of the spinless one's praise them for it.Alot of people are so fed up with this town there taking losses and moving the hell out.Smile


Posted By: ViscountValmont
Date Posted: Jun 27 2011 at 12:06am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Viscount Valmont

It is the families of those buried at the
Middletown Cemetery that have called and complained about the condition year after year and the nothing was ever corrected.

Viscount, it is not up to the family members to solve the problems of the cemetery it is the City since the law clearly states that it is their responsibility and what needs to be done at the cemetery. At the last meeting I attended I stated that tombstones had been removed from the graves and needed to be replaced.  You didn’t seem to think this was a serious problem that needed any action. It is against the law to deface or move a tombstone from a grave…period….and to add to this problem….these tombstones have been off the graves for at least 15 years. I have requested every year for 6 years that this problem be solved. Soooo please tell me what a reasonable amount of time should be for the city to place these stones back on the gravesites.

So once again I will tell you that the
Middletown Cemetery is not in compliance with ORC 4767.06



It would be only your interpretation of all that I have said and done to come to those conclusions. I was merely thanking a concerned descendant. I did not charge them with solutions. I meant that it is ultimately their WISHES about what SHOULD be done that will be the voice of how the cemetery is treated now that we have a board to represent them. As after all, unless there is enough people willing to come out to fight SOLELY for the historical aspect of the cemetery, it is family members that will be among the most important of citizens involved. And note, they are part of why the board was created. So while it took quite a long time, the complaints of family members have started to, at last, be heard. And again, you have misinterpreted my words at the meeting. I told you directly that I thought it was a serious problem, but that things must be done in a proper order. There is no reason to go about doing things now, only to have them be re-done at a later date, causing two sets of bills to pile up in the process. You as well as I know, there is only so much money. And I am not the one approving it. I am the one trying to attain it. We as a board, are right now at this very time, coming to our top decision at hand: who the Tombstone job will be done by. The vault is number two, only because the money involved- grants, etc... must be waited on in order to complete. But to lump me in with the process that has put this cemetery where it is today is a mistake. I am doing my best to make sure it actually gets brought back to code, not torn down and flattened, and furthermore, to gain higher status in a larger registry as a historical site. I value law, history, and family in this matter. But there is only so much as one board member I can get done on my own. I must work with four other members, and seek to get compliance from them. There is no railroading action I can use to push anything through. I apologize at your dissatisfaction, whether with me, or the board in its entirety. But I care about the cemetery, and the laws governing it.



Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Jun 27 2011 at 8:32am
Here's an idea: Put a putting green in the cemetary. The city will give you a million dollars over the next five years to keep the place up!

But DON'T put in a pool, because then the City will want to turn the whole thing into some more greenspace.


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 27 2011 at 8:27pm
thank you ViscountValmont.  I agree with everything you say except the VAULT is and should be top priority right now.  In my opinion the board is doing what they can with what they have right now and everyone needs to see what they are dealing with.  I think the media needs to do a story on this with interviews and photos at the cemetery to make everyone aware of what is going on down on First Avenue,  How about it MUSA or anyone on here from the Journal??   Thank you again.


Posted By: ViscountValmont
Date Posted: Jun 28 2011 at 3:02pm
Technically, Summerrain, the vault is top priority. But we have specifically allocated funds available to us right now that allow us to tackle the tombstones right off the bat. Whereas, the vault is a much larger venture, requiring more people with varied expertise, and very specific materials and processes to maintain its historical status. Thusly, it is a much larger economical behemoth. We must wait on grants to come through, and one of the most difficult parts of that process is "matching" funds with other funds. So, let's say a 10k grant requires matching; at the very least, it is a 1-to-1 ratio, and requires we have another 10k in order to qualify and unlock the first grant. If it is a 2-to-1 ratio, which some are, then of course we would need another 20k grant to actualize the initial 10k grant. Then there is the catch 22 of security, which was what sparked this forum thread: the partially inaccurate article on the electric gating for the cemetery. Most, if not all grants for this project, require security. We have had many obstacles to overcome, but none so troublesome as the security question. At present, we are looking into reliable volunteer citizens to take up the cause of locking and unlocking the current gate in order to create a window of opportunity for these grants. Our end game, of course, is to have a sophisticated system that would satisfy all security needs of the cemetery. We have a prioritized list of things to get done, ranked by importance (to citizens as well as historical value), time requirements, proper chronology, and finally, practicality. So, as you can see, it is a complicated set of goals and needs that beset us. I thank you for your sincere appreciation. And I am in total agreement with you on press coverage. We have had a few articles, and have done our best to get this issue out there for the people to see. However, the Journal is changing its focus, preferring more sensational "investigative journalism," and apparently not wanting stories on its local government or community projects. If you, or anyone else you know, would like to see more articles on the cemetery, please contact the Middletown Journal and inform them. If they are more aware of citizens' desire to be kept abreast of the topic, I'm sure they will gladly comply. We need more concerned people such as yourself attached to this project. Again, thank you. 


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 28 2011 at 3:45pm
What you need is to get on to the spinless ones (Council) that used money from the cemetery fund to pay off other debts. Until the spineless ones are out of office I forsee this town in gravel roads and pollution.Smile


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jun 28 2011 at 7:18pm
 How about replacing the tarp, have you mentioned that in the 2hr. meetings. In any venture you have other issues that are fluid, that need attention now. Never knew how many different shades of blue you can get out of one of those.  This board must get it's act together or it's just another layer of burearucracy.  If your going to fire the boss, figure out how to do it first before you apply for thousands in grants.  I do applaud all of the time given by these folks.


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 28 2011 at 9:53pm
I do believe the tarp was brought up at an early meeting and of course the answer was WE HAVE NO MONEY, but we can take the money that is in place for the vault and use that.to purchase new tarps and have them put on the Vault by a contractor.  It is an eyesore for sure.  Maybe someone in the community would like to donate some large tarps or maybe large tarps like the ones the Truck Drivers use. Anyone??  I am sure there are plenty of people out there with answers to alot of questions about the cemetery.  Just hoping something will be done before it falls in.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 28 2011 at 10:00pm
I will donate the Tarps if they will be replaced.Its just a damn shame are spineless ones cant do it.Whoever is in charge can PM me and let me know when and where to drop them of.


Posted By: Richard Saunders
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 12:29am

Let’s see if I understand this correctly:

The city had $500,000 to buy four buildings for Cincinnati State, two of which that school had never said that they wanted and which will probably end up going to the City Manager’s boyfriend to allow him to pretend that he is a museum curator;

And the city has $7,000 (plus) to buy phony old-fashioned gaslights for Mulligan’s and Kohler’s and Duane Gordon’s front yards;

But the city cannot afford to spend $50 on a new tarp to protect the historic vault at the Historic Pioneer Cemetery?

Is that about the size of it?



Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 29 2011 at 4:01am
Summerrain
Maybe you should ask Mr. Adkins for CDBG funds to replair the vault.
These were the funds promised to me in 2006 if I had the vault declared historic.
These are the same funds that are going to be used in the Highland District and these were the same funds used last year to purchase more playground equiptment for Old South Park...


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 4:27am
Summerrain stated " Ms Moon was telling the City how to do their job"

Well Summerrain I don't think you should speak about things that you know nothing about or have any FACTS about. But since you want to make this personal I would suggest that you read a little more and find out just what the City should be doing at the cemetery. 
FACT: If the City had not lied to me the vault would already be restored.
FACT: Numerous people from all over the county and local residents supported the restoration of the cemetery during the 6 years that I worked at the cemetery. We know how the City thanked them for their support.
FACT: The Middletown Cemetery was NOT ready for Memorial Day this year.
FACT: The Middletown Cemetery Board did not request that the City do anything at the cemetery to help get
             it ready for Memorial Day this year.




Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 4:58am
Summerrain
At the last cemetery board meeting that I attended I brought up the fact that the Middletown Cemetery had a problem with the records of who and where people were buried at Middletown Cemetery.
Chairman Mr McNeil, informed me that the board had looked at the records and they were in order.
Really?.......
If all the records are in order then what have I been correcting for the past 7 years?
If all the records are in order then how do you bury 9 people in 4 plots.
FACT: The Middletown Cemetery records are not in order or complete.



Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 5:49am
Viscount stated "Most, if not all grants for this project, require security. We have had many obstacles to overcome, but none so troublesome as the security question. At present, we are looking into reliable volunteer citizens to take up the cause of locking and unlocking the current gate in order to create a window of opportunity for these grants. Our end game, of course, is to have a sophisticated system that would satisfy all security needs of the cemetery."

 Viscount

Nothing complicated about the security of the
Middletown Cemetery.
The Middletown Police Department evaluated this problem in 2005 and the City has refused to complete or take action on their own security evaluation.
1. Lock the gates
2. Repair (not patch) all the fences and replace barb wire.
3. Clear all fence lines.
4. Plant thorny plants in problem areas to help break the habit of using the cemetery as a pass thru

In order to understand the problem you need to understand the cause.
The cemetery plus Cohen Bros blocks in a four block area of the city and this will soon increase when CSX blocks off Grand Ave. You will then have a wall from 14th Ave to Woodlawn and from Woodlawn to Central Ave.
The students from the middle school climb the fences because the don’t want to walk the three blocks around the cemetery to get to the other side to University.

If you do not do all the above items you will not solve the security problems at the cemetery.





Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 2:59pm
OMG Really?
 
Summerrain stated " Ms Moon was telling the City how to do their job"   Honest to god if you were running this city or any of the departments would you really want someone that is volunteering to come and tell you how to do your job or run your business??  I don't think so.  Let the Cemetery Board do their job and stop complaining about it.

Well Summerrain I don't think you should speak about things that you know nothing about or have any FACTS about. I know exactly what I speak of.  I have been hearing about all the problems the cemetery has and all the problems you have with the city and all the problems the city has with you. So yes I know what I speak of..
 
But since you want to make this personal I would suggest that you read a little more and find out just what the City should be doing at the cemetery. Not trying to make this personal at all just stating facts as i know them. I know what the city should be doing in the cemetery.  Locking the gates, all the maintenance, replacing the stones, etc, yada yada yada.  The City does not want to do anymore then they have to in the cemetery and I wish people would get that through their heads.  You cannot make the City do anything at this point and I do not mean just you I mean anyone. 

FACT: If the City had not lied to me the vault would already be restored.  I do not know the whole story here just your side of what I have read.

FACT: Numerous people from all over the county and local residents supported the restoration of the cemetery during the 6 years that I worked at the cemetery. We know how the City thanked them for their support.  Cannot disagree with you on that at all.  But there was a reason that the City went in there and destroyed all the hard work that you and others had done and to be so vendictive at you that they would destroy it for everyone.  Bad move on the Citys part for sure.

FACT: The Middletown Cemetery was NOT ready for Memorial Day this year.  Well as I saw it the grass was mowed and it seemed the board took it upon themselves to add the flowers and mulch so that it would have some color.  Of course I heard that you complained about the way the flowers were planted but hmmmm I did not see you down there offering to help.  Just stating a fact , saw you in the back of the cemetery looking to see what was going on, but no offer to help.  As I seen it some not all of the board members got the job done.

FACT: The Middletown Cemetery Board did not request that the City do anything at the cemetery to help get
             it ready for Memorial Day this year.  The Middletown Cemetery Board did ask the city to 1.  Cut  
             down the old Flag pole. 2.  KMB placed two planters in the front section of the cemetery. And
             again I heard that you complained about this.  

So now as you can see I do know more about what is going on here than you think i do.  I know people and I hear things too.
 
Again I say.... Let the Cemetery Board do their job and quit telling them how to do it.  I am sorry but you are not the only one that wants to see this cemetery back to a better state.


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 3:04pm
FYI for LMAO 
 
The Tarps have been Removed from the Vault as of this morning. 


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Summerrain1957 Summerrain1957 wrote:

FYI for LMAO 
 
The Tarps have been Removed from the Vault as of this morning. 
Yes I know that and I was told that they can "HANDLE IT.".Try to be nice to the assholes down there and get talked to like a damn dog.Angry
They all can kiss where the sun dont shine.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 4:20pm

Summerrain stated " Ms Moon was telling the City how to do their job"   Honest to god if you were running this city or any of the departments would you really want someone that is volunteering to come and tell you how to do your job or run your business??  I don't think so.  Let the Cemetery Board do their job and stop complaining about it.

Well Summerrain I think you need to investigate this matter further.
I did not at any time make any unreasonable requests of any City employees. I did send photos to the public works department concerning downed trees, fences and groundhog holes and any other hazards that I found in the cemetery.
You might want to ask the City why the employees lied about the damage that was done at the cemetery by Ike. It was clearly not the job of a volunteer to meet and correspond with FEMA over a 30 day period to correct the problems at the cemetery.


I guess you will need to learn to hard way...so good luck





 





Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 4:57pm

LMAO  sorry to hear that for sure and thank you for stepping up.



Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 5:14pm
No i am good on what I know and I do not need to investigate any further. 
 
As for meeting with FEMA??  if it was clearly not the job of a volunteer then you should have not been the one to contact FEMA about the problem.  Granted the city probably would have not done anything either but you should have left that up to the City and FEMA.  JMO! 
 
I do not want to belittle your efforts in the cemetery at all because I think you did a wonderful job there and so does my whole family and i want you to understand that. I have family buried there too, and I have called and written letters and it does no good because like I said the City will not do anything with that Cemetery any longer and I am sure they would love to pawn it off on someone that can take care of it.
 
Anyway I am not going to argue the situation as it was before the new board was created, we all need to get behind the board and let them do their job and if they cannot do it them come November the fight will be over i think.


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 6:17pm
I havent really got into politics until I moved back here to Middlton<LOL so have this question. If the City(are spineless ones) borrow money from a fund,lets say the cemetary fund,aren't they not responsable to pay that money back with interest? If it happens that the Cemetary needs money for a repair and there is no money in that fund,shouldnt the city be liable to pick up that tab?
Im going to get more involved in this little project after I called the city to Donate truck tarps to replace the ones that WAS up there.Was even going to get a contractor to put them up if needed to be.Well guess what,I was told "THEY HAVE IT HANDLED" and after the short conversation I had with the BUTTHEAD on the other end I bet my blood pressure went up.The city needs to give Butthead some lessons on how to talk on a phone.Smile


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 6:39pm

As for meeting with FEMA??  if it was clearly not the job of a volunteer then you should have not been the one to contact FEMA about the problem.  Granted the city probably would have not done anything either but you should have left that up to the City and FEMA.  JMO! 

 
Summerrain
Just for your information...I didn't call FEMA the City did.


Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 9:45pm
whatever,  like I said I will not rehash what happened beforewith you and the City it is old news and it got you or the cemetery no where. 
 
 


Posted By: middletownscouter
Date Posted: Jul 01 2011 at 9:22am
Originally posted by middletownscouter middletownscouter wrote:

A suggestion. Since it appears that most government bodies (not just our city mind you, but all over our great nation) really like to come up with inventive ways of repackaging items, perhaps this idea might work:

With the lack of lighting and multiple fall hazards inside the cemetery, leaving the gates open in the evening poses a potential public safety hazard along with potential liability towards the City. With this in mind, that leaving the gates open at night is a public safety problem, then the duty of securing the facility by closing and locking the gates in the evening could easily be shifted to the MPD patrol unit for that area. It would not be an overtime situation since there are MPD patrol units for that geographic area pretty much 24/7. Additionally, doing this should cause a reduction in other crimes (like vandalism) that occur in the property, which is always a goal of the MPD.

Since unlocking and opening the gates in the morning is not a public safety issue, it can be done during straight time by a municipal employee as part of their everyday job duties along with opening gates at other municipal properties like Smith Park, etc.


I guess in all the bickering my suggestion got completely overlooked?


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 01 2011 at 6:29pm

MiddletownScouter

    That is a great plan with sooo much common sense…..however…..I have been told the MPD will not open or close the gates because of union rules and the union for the Public Works said it is not part of their job description.
    Since the City knows this is a high risk, high crime area you would think they should be the ones to check the cemetery before the gates are locked.

    Please remember that in 2005 when the MPD made the security recommendation for the cemetery to the City they stated that all the fences needed to be fully repaired, all the fence lines needed to be cleared and thorny bushes needed to be planted in the problem areas and lock the gates.



Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 01 2011 at 6:38pm
Don't understand. Why does it take a union person in any department to lock and unlock a gate? I have said this before but can't the union people be bypassed by having a non-union city worker or big kahuna lock/unlock the gate to and from work? Surely there is no union job designation for this task, is there? Give the key to someone who drives in to work on Central and out of town on First. Only take a few minutes to do. Hell, give the union person the key if it's such a big deal for the unions and let them leave work a half hour early for doing it. It's called comp time. No extra pay, just an earlier departure time from work each day.


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 01 2011 at 6:54pm
With the lack of lighting and multiple fall hazards inside the cemetery, leaving the gates open in the evening poses a potential public safety hazard along with potential liability towards the City.

MiddletownScouter
You are correct.
When I first started working at the cemetery in 2005 if I saw anything hazardous like a large broken limb, groundhog holes, etc., I would take a photo of the problem and sent it to Ginger Smith and Ray Tolson and they would take care of the problem within a few weeks.  



Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 01 2011 at 7:01pm
Vet
I wish I had an answer for you.
It makes my three little gray cells go….TILT…TILT…TILT



Posted By: Summerrain1957
Date Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 8:37pm
The Middletown Police and the Parks Dept do not lock Smith Park anymore except when Light up Middletown is going on.  Just saying!!!


Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Jul 03 2011 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by LMAO LMAO wrote:

I will donate the Tarps if they will be replaced.Its just a damn shame are spineless ones cant do it.Whoever is in charge can PM me and let me know when and where to drop them of.


That's nice, good for you!

Some of us really appreciate it!


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 03 2011 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by TudorBrown TudorBrown wrote:

Originally posted by LMAO LMAO wrote:

I will donate the Tarps if they will be replaced.Its just a damn shame are spineless ones cant do it.Whoever is in charge can PM me and let me know when and where to drop them of.


That's nice, good for you!

Some of us really appreciate it!
I called the city to tell them that I would donate the tarps and even get a contractor to place these and was told "We can Handle it."When asking when it was going to be "HANDLED" the person on the other end aditude changed from nice to being a complete asshole.
I think I seen or was sent a private message that the old tarps was taken down.Havent heard nor have I been by to see if new ones was put up.
If are spinless ones and Ms Judy wants to spend taxpayers money they need to invest in anger managemeant classes to some of their employees.Smile


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 03 2011 at 8:14pm

LAMO
I was at the cemetery about an hour ago and the traps have been removed from the roof of the vault.  It also looks like they have removed part of the vent that was in the center of the roof for some reason.



Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 04 2011 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

LAMO
I was at the cemetery about an hour ago and the traps have been removed from the roof of the vault.  It also looks like they have removed part of the vent that was in the center of the roof for some reason.

Im not going to try to figure out why they took them down without replacing them cos we all know that they just dont give a damn what the people in Middletucky thinks.I just pray that some people will step up and run against the spineless ones that are sitting now. Also I pray that Ms.Judy will just go away.She and her side kick Leslie are nothing but liars.Smile


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

LAMO
I was at the cemetery about an hour ago and the traps have been removed from the roof of the vault.  It also looks like they have removed part of the vent that was in the center of the roof for some reason.

Went by there today and tarps are still down.Had to go back on some post to read and I didnt find no one calling them "TACKY" just tore up.So my question to the "SPINELESS ONES" that lurk around why havent they been replaced? Dont give us a response saying dont have the money,cos ME,Myself,and I was going to donate the tarps and the manpower to put them up.Mind you they wasnt the five dollar ones that you can pick up at the dollar store,they was heavy duty that trucks use.Are you "SPINELESS" ones hopeing that it will rain and fall in? Also,why has the board done anything about it?
Stop worrying about putting a gate up cos if the youngun's want in there going to get in.We have plenty of Police Officers that patrol the area so why not just pull in there and cruise around and see if you catch the lil varmets? LOL...If you so happen to catch them  best punishmeant to them would be community work in the same place they went to destroy.Big%20smile


Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 5:14pm
Who's the chair person?


Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 6:45pm

Ground Swat
I ain’t got a clue about who’s in charge of anything.



Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 7:21pm

Potential liability to the City…..














Posted By: da120757
Date Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 2:13pm
I would like to talk to whoever (LMAO) that wanted to donate the Tarp for the Cemetery Vault.  Can you please send me a private messege.  Thank you


Posted By: LMAO
Date Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by da120757 da120757 wrote:

I would like to talk to whoever (LMAO) that wanted to donate the Tarp for the Cemetery Vault.  Can you please send me a private messege.  Thank you
Sent you a message.


Posted By: cooan
Date Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 6:34am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

I would like to thank Armbrusters for donating flowers again this year for the cemetery entry.

I would also like to thank the Middletown Community Foundation for the tombstone grant. Without their support over the past 7 years the Middletown Cemetery would still be a weed field.

My grant money for the restoration of the vault can be used by the new cemetery board.

Again a group of volunteers have stepped foreward....however....what will the City do to help these volunteers. Why is it that the City has money for flowers and mulch for the parks but not for the cemetery? Why are the flowers from the cemetery now in other parks in the City? If they couldn't take care of the flowers at the cemetery how can they take care of them at other locations??
Yep I've still got lots of questions......


It is so great that they donate the flowers for the cemetery. So a big thanks to Armbruster.
I think it is a reasonable question why the City has no money for flowers for the cemetery. I think if they have money for the parks they should definitely use some of the money also for the cemetery. Maybe it would also be possible to order cheap http://www.serenataflowers.com/ - flowers by post and then use them for the cemetery. I am of the opinion that there should be a solution to this because what if Armbruster does not donate flowers any more. Will there then be no flowers? That would be sad I think.





Posted By: wannaknow
Date Posted: Jan 18 2012 at 8:21am
This is probbably too simple to offer as a solution but it's something to contemplate. The cemetary where my family is buried has a Memorial Day ceremony every year like most other cemetaries. At this time the families donate money to the caretakers for the following year. The cemetary has a roster by the entrance that lists the family members and how much they donated. There is a shared opinion that  the family should help financially with the expenses to care for the graves of their loved ones. By posting who and how much probably motivates the family members to show more responsibility. Heaven forbid if your name is not listed and Uncle Josiah has to come and haunt you or worse yet, the other living family members take you to task. Most of my family live out of state now so it's comforting to know the cemetary is being cared for. We visit often and it always looks beautiful. A small donation from every living relative times the number of graves goes a long way and it's not a huge financial burden on any one entity. It has worked for the past 100 years or so. Just a thought . .


Posted By: Topdog
Date Posted: Jan 20 2012 at 9:37am
As a member of the cemetery committee, I would like to thank the fine citizens of Middletown for all of their continued support both verbally
and financially.

We have achieved a lot in the 14 months we have been a board but still have a long way to go. We have repaired 92 tombstones in areas 1 & 2 at at cost of $9,308.00. We rebuilt and pressure washed the stone walls of the vault at a cost of $42,320.00. We are going to replace the rotted roof framing system in the next 60 to 90 days. That a cost of $11,810.00. That will empty our account. The slate roof and coupla will still need to be financed as well as the new front doors. All of the monies for the repairs up to this point have been through grants and private donations.

Our five major priorities that are still ahead of us are as follows: A. Complete the renovation of the vault. B. Install a security system ie. mechanical gate, security cameras, and fence repair/replacement. C. Tree removal and re-plant. D. Veterans memorial. E. Tombstone repair. We estimate the cost to perform all of these items will run between $100,000.00 and $135,000.00.

We welcome any support that can provided, to get this historic cemetery into a condition that all of Middletown can be proud of.

We meet on the third Wednesday of each month, on the second floor of the city building at 5:00pm room 210, all are welcome.

Thank you for your continued support.







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