Look at those salaries
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Income and Property Tax
Forum Description: Discuss Tax issues, current, past and upcoming.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3744
Printed Date: Nov 21 2024 at 9:27pm
Topic: Look at those salaries
Posted By: tomahawk35
Subject: Look at those salaries
Date Posted: Mar 27 2011 at 11:11pm
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Once again I am sure the city and school employees are upset that their( taxpayer's money) salaries are once again put out in the streets so everyone can see.
I nearly fell out of my chair this morning seeing 3rd grade teachers making 70-80 grand,especially with the scores that come out every year,super money for a 9 month gig.
They will tell you that we are not seeing what we see,reminds me of the Rodney King beating,the tape lied.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 2:29am
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I see where our thrifty city is looking to hire another “ADMIN-Clerical Administrative Assistant” at a cost of “$34,249 to $45,150 annually plus excellent benefits”. On the one hand, city hall keeps bemoaning the upcoming cuts in funding from state and federal sources and the impending budget crisis our fair city will be facing. On the other hand, they keep blindly hiring away, instead of cutting back, thereby exacerbating that crisis. Go figure!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 6:05am
| Can you now understand why some of us taxpayers are upset at your school system Ms. Andrew? The two posts by tomahawk and Mike are prime examples that infuriate some of us and one of many reasons why some of us will never vote yes on any of your levies. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 9:57am
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So did Gilleland get a pay raise ?
Wasn't it just a year or two ago she was making $130,000 and now she makes >$132,000 ?? A $2,000 raise is pretty nice for doing nothing.
------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 10:04am
Hermes- c'mon, you don't see the value on how Ms. Gilleland is doing her job to give her a $2000 pay raise? We must retain quality, value-added people for our city government. I won't go into her list of accomplishments, but I think they "speak for themselves".    I think we could also include Leslie, Marty, Russy and old Robbee- net if he was still with us. All, deserving of a hefty raise for a "job well done".  (and yes, I'm off my meds again ) Matter of fact, let's take that council salary from $5000/year to $10,000 while we're throwin' out the money and recognize true talent when we see it.
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 10:14am
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Hey tomahawk - ever have to deal with 30 nine yr olds in a confined area for 7 hrs a day 5 days a week? If you had, you'd understand why they make that kind of money. I never understand how people can scream "the children are our future", yet think that just anyone is good enough to teach them. When you require a Masters Degree in Education, you'd best provide a salary worthy of that degree. Otherwise, all the "smart" people will go into banking, where the "real" money is!!!
Now, government employees are another matter. More important than what their salary is, IMO, becomes what the taxpayer gets for the money. It certainly doesn't seem to be the time to add new staff, does it? Is it any wonder why taxpayers scratch their heads when politicians scream "we're broke"? Seems to me, that the hire the city needs is public relations because they do an extremely poor job of informing the public. I guess I shouldn't give them any ideas!!! lol
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Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 1:52pm
Vet - I'm off my meds too that's why I haven't been posting to much on here.  The Docs at the VA claim I'm getting better but I keep asking them then why do I see so many "gooks" in city hall.
Tony - Your statement is a contradiction.The schools are government and you still get what you pay for and in the case of schools we are paying way to much to have the score's we are getting.How many people become teachers just because they feel the need to teach ? My guess is very few.This is not 1950.Today people become educated and train for the high paying jobs so they don't have to work at McDonalds.It's pretty naive of anyone to think they do it because they love kids,they do it because of the pay,the union benefits and security of the job.Just because one teacher makes $70,000 and another makes $40,000 doesn't mean that the one making $40,000 is any better or worse than the other.You can not pay the highest rate and then expect your getting quality,that is being very naive too.
One of the major problems we have in this town is the inability to have a qualified person to negotiate with unions.Apparently city hall has no one capable of handling negotiations,unlike unions who have highly paid lawyers who do their talking.Les Landen is about as qualified as Daffy Duck to be sitting at the table with union lawyers not one person on city council is qualified to negotiate either.That's why you have cops in this town making $70 grand and same with teachers and school administrators.City hall just gives in to union demands and their attitude is "Oh well,it's just tax dollars" or "We'll just put a levy on the ballot that way we don't even have to face the union lawyers".And you see how well all that works.------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 5:52pm
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Hermes - those docs at the VA will tell you anything to keep from seeing you again!!!
I agree that people become educated and train for high paying jobs for a reason. That reason is the high pay, the benefits and security. To think otherwise is to naive. The quality employee is the person who is motivated by more than those considerations. To think that there are teachers who aren't motivated by love of children and the profession of teaching is also naive. There are people in the world who want to do their best because that's how they were raised. I believe they learned that from their parents; the most important teacher for a child!!! Also, I absolutely DO expect that for top pay you'd better get top quality. If that's not happening, someone isn't doing their job!!!
My real concern about all of this is the demonization of the public employee. Last I checked, public service employees aren't the ones who needed bailed out. They didn't cause the mortgage crisis, the bank crisis or any other crisis. Millionaires and corrupt elected officials seem to get a free pass when it is they who are perpetrating this class warfare; yet all we can do is complain that the teacher and the police office make too much money. When will the focus be on the ones who caused these problems instead of scapegoating our public sector.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 5:57pm
I must object to that remark on behalf of Daffy Duck!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Hermes wrote:Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 10:36pm
Tony B. No,but I have been a foreman over 20-25 men which alot of them were out most of the night drinking and God knows what ever for 10-12 hrs a day for 7 days a week. The only difference is you can put the fear in kids but you could end up fighting the men. I went to college and student taught in Atlanta Ga. but decided to make a career move on my own instead of sitting around and wining about how hard my job was.. Teachers like everyone else have chosen their path and it is no harder than anyone else's job and no one owe them,you or me a pity party.
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Posted By: Joe Citizen
Date Posted: Mar 28 2011 at 10:57pm
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I have to agree with most of the posts on this one. Having negotiated w/ the city the whole idea of give and take is lost at city hall.
Also the numbers that are in the Journal are not accuate at all. I don't know where they got them or who gave them to the MJ but IMO demonizing public employees is exactally what they are trying to do. |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Mar 29 2011 at 1:15am
Well now you know why Bugs Bunny is no longer on TV,Daffy represented him at his last contract negotiation. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 29 2011 at 8:01am
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Originally posted by tomahawk35
Teachers like everyone else have chosen their path and it is no harder than anyone else's job and no one owe them,you or me a pity party.
No one said anything about a pity party. I'm talking about generalizations that demean and demonize public employees.
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Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Mar 29 2011 at 10:53pm
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Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 30 2011 at 8:46am
| Quite frankly, there is a difference between public employees and elected officials. You want to point at the employee and say they are the problem when in reality it is the leadership at fault. What's worse, you fall right in line with them when you blame the employee for the lack of leadership. Are you so envious that a public employee makes a living wage that you think this is all their fault!!!? School test scores should be the least of concern in terms of education. Let's make sure they can read, write and comprehend basic math!!! How about a more sensible approach instead of let's just throw blame around like that alone will solve the problem. WAKE UP!!! I'm sick and tired of all this moaning and griping with no solution offered except let's just pull everyone into the gutter. LEADERSHIP IS THE LPROBLEM!!! |
Posted By: jsmith2011
Date Posted: Mar 30 2011 at 12:08pm
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One of the salaries that stands out is the Middletown City School employee who is listed as "substitute teacher" and the salary was about $75,000.00 a year.
On April 4th at the school board meeting, the district is going to announce RIF's. Hall monitors at the high school will be gone. This is right after we have read in the journal for the past 2 weeks about gang violence.
Library managers are also getting RIFFED. Those jobs will be filled with volunteers and students from the high school.
All of the positions are classified, low paying jobs that service students but those are the ones to go, not the administrator positions. 20 years ago there were 4 administrator positions, look at the positions on the Middletown City Schools website now, 3 or 4 times as many but none of them will be cut, it will be teachers and support staff.
There is a rumor going around the schools that Debbie Alberico has already been promised another postion with a different title next school year. The same thing happened when the last levy was up for a vote. Taxpayers complained about having an Assistant Superintendent so the district changed the title to Senior Director of Learning and hired Betsy Carter once the current Asst Superintendent left. It made the taxpayers think they actually listened and cut the Assistant job. No, they just changed the title.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 30 2011 at 12:31pm
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TonyB quotes-"School test scores should be the least of concern in terms of education. Let's make sure they can read, write and comprehend basic math!!!"
And that's the problem Tony- too many can't do as you suggest. Test scores are certainly a barometer to see if the kids are absorbing the information taught. And, right or wrong, it has been established as the only game in town in which to judge how well the schools are delivering their message and effectiveness. Go to a fast food place with young kids working there. See the cash register tell them how to make change. Alot of them can't do it on their own. "How about a more sensible approach instead of let's just throw blame around like that alone will solve the problem". How about the age old adage of "doing the same failed things over and over again and expecting a different result"- If the schools realize they need to improve, why are they still locked into some of the mistakes of the past and why does it take them so long to react to poor results? Look at the test scores from 10 years ago and you will see the same scores from last year. Why no quicker response than what we have gotten toward improvement? Can't wait that long to change for the better in business or it'll go down the tubes. In the meantime, class after class is passing through Middletown High School being taught using the same failed methods. No urgency to change? Pulling everyone into the gutter????? It's the school people who are doing that by their lack of urgency to correct an obvious problem. All we taxpaying citizens are doing is reacting to what they are producing with our money. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 30 2011 at 2:46pm
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Vet - you sound as if you think I disagree with you. I do not. I know a specific individual that has the benefit of a Middletown Schools education who cannot read. They just passed him along rather than fix this or admit responsibility. It is this kind of thing I'm talking about. I've said it before, I don't mind spending the money, but I want what I pay for!!! There is no justification of any kind for someone to get through school without being able to read!!! Do you think those tests showed that? Our section 8 housing situation is exacerbating the problem. We've had these tests now for how long? No improvement. Well, let's just test some more. Tell the teachers that their jobs and salary increases depend on kids passing those tests and that is all teachers will do; teach to pass those tests and that's it. There is more to life than passing a test.
I also agree, you cannot do the same thing and expect a different result. Yet, we continue to elect the same 2 parties to office always with the promise of change. What has changed is the US is being bled to death by 1000 little cuts while our elected officials help to speed the process. Let's vote these people and these two parties out of office. Then, perhaps we can have a sensible, non-partisan debate about how to slove our problems.
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Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Mar 30 2011 at 9:59pm
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Years ago while in college I remember one class that the prof. gave us the same test 3 times during a quarter and we were able to have the higest score for our grade.His thought process was anyone could cram overnight and remember the material to pass his test but by taking the same test over and over a student would absolve the material. Saying this, It is now more a money thing where students are herded thru schools like cattle so schools can collect state money to to add to their coffer without regards to the dumbdown education that they are putting out in the streets.The only other thing that really bothers me is why most of the neighboring schools are posting 25-28 pasting scores out of 30 while Middletown seems to have a lock on 5 for the past ten years or so.
I want what my $1800-$1900 property tax money that goes to this school system to be of value and not wasted on such poor performance.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 31 2011 at 6:27am
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Exactly right tomahawk.
"The only other thing that really bothers me is why most of the neighboring schools are posting 25-28 pasting scores out of 30 while Middletown seems to have a lock on 5 for the past ten years or so. I want what my $1800-$1900 property tax money that goes to this school system to be of value and not wasted on such poor performance" I have mentioned the very same thing for years. Can't seem to find any of the school people, nor the pro-levy people to answer why they have been stuck at the 5 indicator level when all districts around us have shown improvement. Can't find any that have the answers on how to fix it either.(Except to give them more money of course) I just keep voting no on the levies until they do show us something positive for our money. It is a shame the blind pro-levy people don't require their buddies to perform better. Guilt trips from the pro-levy people such as "you're hurting the kids when you vote no" (then show us something and we'll vote yes) or "it'll hurt your property values" (seriously, how much lower could they go) or "we need the money to make improvements" (that never come no matter how much money we give them)The school people are running a game on the voters. Educating the kids is secondary (as evidenced by passing the kids through the system just to get them out of their hair). Retaining their positions and hiring more buddies is the primary objective or we would see a district that is always on the improvement trail rather than stuck in neutral. Some voters get it, some still are clueless, voting yes and believing everything the district is shoveling. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 31 2011 at 4:15pm
| Vet - might be all the Section 8 housing children keeping those scores so low. I don't care how many improvements they make, at the end of the school day, these kids have to go home. If education is not valued at home, all the improvements in the world won't solve the problem.Lower income families need to understand the value of a public education and need to do a better job of encouraging their children to succeed at school. I wonder how many Section 8 homes have a computer? Then again, I wonder how many have a gaming system and cable TV. It is first and foremost, a matter of priorities within the home. Until that changes, no amount of money will solve the problem |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 31 2011 at 7:03pm
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Disagree TonyB.....The Section 8 onslaught is relatively new to this city. The poor performance started long before this low income saturation. We saw poor performance in the 80's.....before the current city leader low income saturation was even thought of. The Section 8 cluster just added to the misery.
As to your computer at home comment..... There is absolutely no excuse for ANY home, poor or rich, not to have a computer for the family. There are warehouses full of computer systems collecting dust at P&G and I'm sure most corporations have the same situation. Hell, there's enough computer inventory rolling out of corporate America to equip every student in every classroom in America. The corporate people need to let lose of them and distribute them to the schools or have community computer give-aways. If this weren't enough, why don't computer businesses have a low income voucher program where families can get a basic system at a greatly discounted price for their kids at home? The government is quick to give out unemployment money to them, why not computer system purchase money. Might help educate the kids so they won't follow in their parents footsteps as permanent welfare recipients or stuck in a low income lifestyle. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Mar 31 2011 at 7:27pm
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Vet - I graduated from Monroe in 76 even though I lived in Middletown. I can't speak to the quality of education at Middletown High School at the time, but I am reasonably satisfied with the education I was provided with by the Middletown City School District. I wonder if there are others on this forum who went to school in the 80's who could speak to whether they feel they got a good education. Honestly, I can't speak to the quality of the education at MHS because I don't know.
I also have no idea about whether families have computers. Hell, I can barely afford a computer. The comment was really more about the cable TV and gaming systems.I was thinking more about priorities. I agree there should be enough computers for every school. With all of our new schools here, we should be able to plug them all in, too! By the way, if you know where I can get a good computer for free... lol
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Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Mar 31 2011 at 10:17pm
I still belive there was a conspiracy when the schools were losing so many students to open enrollment to other schools that the city started this section 8 influx to prop up attendance so the school wouldn't lose so much state money. I can't prove it but the timing sure speaks volume.
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Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 11:35am
Tony, to be fair...we aren't allowed to hold them back...that's from ADMIN
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 12:08pm
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Not allowed to hold them back even though they are not ready to progress to the next grade? Admin. must be in a big hurry to get rid of the ones who are not "gifted" or who can't seem to grasp what is taught the first time it is delivered. Let's keep the challenging kids moving through at a rapid rate to purge quicker.
This school district is so proud of the "gifted" kids and are always bragging about the kids in this group. They tolerate the "regular" kids who are successful but not "bragging" material. They ship the kids who are a challenge off to an "alternative" school and the rest.......well, they are written off as failures and end up dropping out to sponge off society for the most part. So, basically, the school district motto seems to be......the kids who are easy to educate and who excel we brag about. The rest we tolerate or we hope they go away. |
Posted By: TonyB
Date Posted: Apr 28 2011 at 2:43pm
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sickofthebull - thank you for your post. I take serious exception to "passing the buck" when it comes to a child and his or her future. I'd like to know who at ADMIN is telling you that you have to pass them on, no matter what. It would also be interesting to hear Ms. Andrew comment on this matter. If you're not going to teach children, why should we pay for what we're not getting!!! I would like to know; Is this the policy of MCSD that every child passes no matter their academic progress? If it is not, why is an employee (that's an assumption) telling us that is the policy? Quite frankly, this opens up the school district to litigation if this is the policy, IMO. |
Posted By: sickofthebull
Date Posted: Apr 29 2011 at 12:57pm
| Tony I have students who cannot read past the 1st or 2nd grade level and are about to go on to middle school. I have been told from day one of my employment that we cannot retain students. I have seen no formal mandate on this in writing, it is just understood that we don't do it. VERY frustrating because the majority of the year is spent trying to catch these poor kids up and guess who suffers? You got it, the kids who are on grade level. The focus is on the behind kids because they have to take a grade level test and pass it. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 29 2011 at 7:35pm
| Children having children, teachers who know it all. God forbid they(The system) might listen to the so called (Outsiders) of education. I need to hire people that can solve problems, know wonder I'm thinking about running ads. in China for my open positions. |
Posted By: ground swat
Date Posted: Apr 29 2011 at 7:42pm
| These two posts (jsmith2011, sickofthebull) have a lot to say and seem to be quite versed in some (Inside) info. Damage control might be needed here from the school board folks who watch this site? |