City has high hopes for revitalization projects

 

It looks Middleton's drive more orieneted towards protecting the historic area (didn't realize there was high demand there, as much as anything. Cinci State said it could be years before its break-even, and that's not that important?

 

Memo to Trustees of Cincinnati State: how much square ft to you need? Would it not be more economical to find or have someone build your building, which you lease after everything is new? AK left because it was too costly to maintain the renovations in their older building (paid for many years ago), and leased in West Chester, where they also avoid property taxes (another wonderful benefit of leasing). But Cincinnati State thinks its better to renovate old buikding for $20 Mm, then lease from city?

 

This is filled with so many holes, a Board of Directors on any responsible company, let along a Fortune 500, would shot it down. Really, one of the strangest "marriages" as to why I have seen. Well, O'dell will figure it out surely. As will city council.

 

Looks to be the blind leading the blind, with not even a one eyed king to be found. Good luck with this one.  

 

Also Someone please inform the Journal that there are no Loans involved with the Pendleton Art Center, "For its two major downtown projects announced in 2010, the city has promised up to $450,000 in loans and grants to the Pendleton Art Center......."  Verdin never owes the City or it's citizens a dime whether the Art center is a success or not.

 

"The city is providing a $200,000 loan to the Pendletown Art Center for interior improvements through the money comes from an Urban Development Action Grant. That loan would be forgivable after 10 years of PAC operation. The city also will spend about $250,000 on repairs using money from the Downtown Improvement Fund."

 

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/pendleton-art-center-project-experiences-delays-1010071.html - http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/pendleton-art-center-project-experiences-delays-1010071.html

 

Support go back and read the Meeting minutes concerning the PAC.   I believe you will find that Landon stated the funds are forgivable over a ten year period.  When Landon was asked what if they don't make it ten years Landon said the City just gets the building back and Verdin basically walks away from the loan.  Support just because The Journal keeps spouting the same inaccurate information doesn't make it so no matter how many times they say it.

 

So technically he could open on Jan 1, 2011 and close on Jan. 2, 2011 amid not owe a dime.  Not going to happen but lasting 10 years in Middletown with 40 Artists paying $200-300.00 a month to rent space and a coffee and framing shop that is a tough way to make it in downtown Middletown.

 

I guess it is the way you want to look at things.

 

Hahahaha....there ought to be a big demand for a building in downtown Middletown with what 100 or so car hoods hanging off it, if the PAC fails.  Although the city could give the building to Cohen Brothers for free and they could make it their world headquarters.

 

 

 

All-in-all, I still think this is a very fair article. It doesn't validate the city or its opponents, it just sets the scene for us all to watch the results over the coming years.

 

 

Is this an expenditure benefitting the historic home owners, as their proprty borders the area, than the masses in the city with tax benefits? What is the calculation for tax benefits? There is no lease ready property for Cincinnati State in Butler County anywhere? Was the relationship set in motion thinking the train would bring students from Cincinnati to Middletown? Does the allure of the Manchester for State really entail a kitchen and dining room, and how much cost is involved with converting hotel rooms to classrooms?

 

One would think it would take a year feasibility study to have an architect have some idea what walls need to be taken out, to have a student center in place, a rec center, financial aid, etc. Not enough info to push this discussion any further, but far more questions than answers. Why isn't the ED in West Chester jumping in on this, or did they pass? Just fail to see the logic in Cincinnati State's decision, while seeing a vision someone at city hall has this vision for downtown Middletown being a center for art, ergo- PAC and the "destination", and an academic hub.

 

Enough said.    

 

Next, if ED gets its act together, and city gets its tax and "Open for Business Theme" ready for action, all tho 'brownfields" in city could bring in targeted business, and an available workforce from the multiple programs on east end, MUM, downtown.

 

The problem will remain unfortunately, that the city will not let up on the taxes, the gouging on water bills, and pave the roads and fix infrastructure, and the other piecs of the successful puzzle just aren't there.

 

Maybe Fenwick ought to free some of their land, lease it to Nyer, and have Neyer build to spec exactly what State needs.Too bad the east end is not an indutrial park, but a moved hospital, a high school, and residential homes, as then, the marriage of strong local academics for a well trained workforce would match east end industrial jobs.

 

That's where this whole scenario falls apart. Disconnect between residential attraction and education after work, weekends, etc., and tax structure and cost to live in Middletown, cameras, water, property taxes, streets.     

           Your "Why" questions are right on target and your conclusion regarding the historic home owners is probably the reason there wasn't more due diligence and why we are hearing council say it is such a "high risk ". 

           Bill, you are also right, we have yet to hear the true costs. That could destroy the project in this economy.

            It is a real dichotomy. We all want to become an educational hub but we won't put our financial house in order.

            Time will tell.

             Paul Nagy

     I think Guests has the answer in leasing the Country Bufet building. Interesting!

         pn

 

Acclaro, you in particular: 

 

"Why not target an area between West Chester and Mason?"

 

I now turn the question around and ask it of you:  Why not target (for your own residence) an area between Mason and West Chester?

 

And before you answer something about the loss you would take on the value of your home (the same tired excuse many others on here would make about why they can both complain about Middletown with every posting and also never leave the place), I offer that you can take up your own advice about the soundness of leasing.  That goes for all of you who are so fed up with Middletown as well.

 

 

That's what we really need, and so what if the working class has to subsidize it?  They are used to hard times and most will never even realize that they have shouldered another burden for us, the aristocracy.  Besides, they owe us.  We run this city for them and they don't even appreciate it.

 

You're full of contradictions--you say you'll be the first to cheer if and when Cincy State opens up in Middletown, yet your previous post is full of reasons why they should steer clear...making you among the first to try to shoot down the idea before it even gets off the ground.  Doesn't make much sense, does it?

 

And you never answered my questions--why haven't you looked to West Chester or Mason yourself if Middletown is so decrepit? 

 

And to the guest poster,

 

Your grammar and spelling make it very difficult to understand what point you're trying to convey, but I've gather that you think I am only full of good opinions and high praise for Middletown.  You're completely wrong about this.  What I am full of is good opinion and high praise for this particular project that Cincy State is undertaking.  Let me clue you in on something--deals like this don't come along very often and when they do the city needs to pounce on them (within reason of course).  If the city spends $500K and Cincy State commits $20M (that's only their initial investment, which doesn't include the annual, ongoing economic impact that a campus might have).  I consider this arrangement to be very reasonable and worth the city's money.  Also, I was asking why Acclaro doesn't lease in West Chester or Mason, a point that you seemed to not grasp somehow with your confusing reference to "overstok" (?) in the housing market as a result of Section 8. 

 

Here's a not so subtle insight: there will be no more Armco's or Sorg Papers coming to town anymore with high wages and promise for a great expansion of a prosperous middle class.  This is a reality of the post-industrial economy we live in.  This is one of the best possible development ideas for the city in quite a while (I am struggling to think of a better one in the past 20-30 years) and a lot of people are ready to shoot it down from the get-go.

 

To illustrate my point--can anyone tell me what they believe was the best single economic development in the city in the past few decades?  Are there any that could be better than this coming down the pike? 

 

You people opposed to this need to wake up and be thankful we're not on the sidelines (as of now) on this deal.  We could very well be reading about how Cincy State is establishing a branch in Mason or West Chester, and a lot of you would be "aww-shucks" over it, complaining that the city didn't do enough to get something like that in Middletown.  This deal is about as good as it gets for Middletown right now. 

 

 

Since you have all the answers, what is the hurdle rate for a go vs no by C State?

How many students will be on campus on average?

What is the economic feasibility study and analysis of the additional benefit of students spending money in Middletown- food, gas, other purchases?

How many of the current C State programs will be in Middletown?

At any point in time, how many cars for student commuters will be in downtown- 500-1000-5000, and where are they to park?

What would the monthly lease rate and for how many years, for C State to be obligated to repay a $20 Mm renovation investment through bonds, et al?

What effect and $$$ will be associated with payrolll tax from C State?

How many employees does C State estimate will be in Middletown on campus?

What, if any, impact will this have on MUM's enrollment?

How long before the architectural planning will be completed for the project?

When would it open?

What will be done to avoid the train bottleneck that takes about 10 minutes of time daily, to avoid delays in getting students downtown, and is C State aware of that impediment?

What if C State comes back and says they want the Middletown Foundation or city to absorb 50% of costs, and city's expense, and $500 Kk becomes $10 Mm---go or no go?

 

I'm sorry VOR, but I am not submitting my doctorate dissertation, so when my 90 wps and keyboard can't keep up, please overlook that tendency, and not the intellect behind the commentary.

 

As far as development, I would consider MUM, although that may or may not have met your timeline criteria. Atrium just move of hospital from pt A to B- impact upon city in tax and attraction of residents minimal (if any). YMCA- sorry Vet, same calculus- move poaint A to point B. I do like having Kohl'sand Target out by the highway, although Target was again, moving from point A to point B.