AJ Smith talking during council meetings
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3465
Printed Date: Nov 22 2024 at 3:58am
Topic: AJ Smith talking during council meetings
Posted By: Bill
Subject: AJ Smith talking during council meetings
Date Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 8:55pm
...make it stop.
|
Replies:
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 9:11pm
|
Hey, Bill did you know that according to AJ "Asbestos Grows".
For everyone's info asbestos doesn't grow it is inorganic.
Asbestos is a mineral fiber that has been used commonly in a variety of building construction materials for insulation and as a fire-retardant.
|
Posted By: Smartman
Date Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 9:13pm
Could not agree more, Bill!! 
|
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 9:22pm
|
Wasteful, that was my favorite comment of the night. Second was his opinion that public safety ought to be taking up MORE than the current 71% of the budget, or whatever the # was. I don't think the young man grasps simple economics. Or he thinks if he keeps singing the praises of fire departments that someone somewhere will want to hire him.
|
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 9:32pm
|
I missed most of that conversation when he was trying to make the argument about I guess Landon gets a raise and Legal is hiring a Secretary and then he lost me when he threw the 58 non-union employees under the bus because they we getting a 1% raise. In the meantime we have been giving what 180+/- Public safety workers 3+/-% for the last 7 years I have been here through thick and thin, of the best Health care at rock bottom prices to them. Especially when the private sector was loosing jobs by the thousands, sacrificing pay, suffering increased heath care costs and more.
Tell you what Aj you want some new firefighters or fire stations ask your buddies to give up their 3% for the next 5 years, see what you get for an answer on that one. Funny how everyone else is expendable.
Kudos to Laubach for his initiative on Public Safety Unions and the City as far as holding the General Fund hostage. He should take this to the people and get a petition going, after all we are the ones footing the bill for this.
|
Posted By: TANGO
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 5:19am
|
I agee with pacman, go laubach its about time someone talked about the real issues with the budget. I think jones and aj just playing poltics on this one. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 7:30am
|
This revolving "no progress" in Middletown City Schhols and city council, as well as city leadership has reached a boiling point. AJ Smith is nothing but using the office to position fo a job as a fire fighter. Sorry Mr. Smith, but the FD has to be smart enough to know if you were hired, they'd be shot down for the politics associated with adding you. And economics? Ms. Jones states she supports the Cinci State project because "better to do it now while prices are low"? This deal has no commitment from Cinci state than oral. Not even a written agreement, but a gentlemanly one, "we'd like to make this hapopen." This is nothing more than a bail-out of the Thatcher estate. What an incredible and ongoing disappointment in Middletown, and no one gets it, other than those who want noting to do with the city. Go down and check the real estate books of you want to see the "demand" for Middleton property.
As for the school system, its just endless excuses, give us time, progress is being made, Rasmussen only been here for a short period. And they just state attendsance has improved nd sj indicates its the leading cause of poor performance.
Economics do contribute to poor performance, but there is so much financial aid available fr students who try and make good grades. What do guidance counselors do today at Middletown? I know a teacher who transferred into a psychology position with no background or experience just to extend her years before retiring. What has ruined the schools? Unions. What has ruined Middletown? Mindless city leadership and council who make decisions like buying property with no commitment for utilization nor time line, because real estate in Middletown make go up? Good lord, unplug life support, brain dead doesn't properly describe the community nor leaders.
|
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 8:43am
|
Maybe Mr. Smith should remember the Big Energy Grant that we received? |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 8:50am
|
I missed some of the council conversation on why it was an all or nothing deal on the buildings but, assuming the mortgage holders could be convinced to sell the buildings one by one, buying all the buildings seemed unnecessary at this time. It doesn't appear that C St. will need the others and, if they do, it could be 10 years out. Don't worry C St. there are plenty of other downtown buildings you'll be able to acquire cheap if and when you need them. I don't understand the need to gobble up all the buildings as if downtown Middletown is a hot stock and we're buying low. Robinette or mayor's statement about marketing the First National building better by using the "power of the ED engine" made me laugh. Do these people know that building is going to be a money drain with all the maintenance issues? And they all dismissed the Bank One building as self sustaining because of Miami's occupancy. Really? And are you sure Miami will be there in 6 months, 18 months, 48 months??
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 9:15am
|
Why Ms. Moon, you act surprised the city and council didn't use the grant to update the fire department? Do you not know that is how they will sell the next levy? You know, in the interest of public safety, we must add .25% for police and fire proectection, or else we'll have to close one of the stations. I heard Mr. Schianone and his rumblings on that so much, I could hear it in my sleep his political pitch to support the fire department because of the amount of time to make the runs to the Atrium. I can't tell you how many times duriing the underpass construction I saw ambulances from the fire department blocked from congestion, with minutes ticking off the clock associated with traffic associated with the stimulus money used out by 75. So, that's the ace to play when they want to kick up taxes .25 or ,5%.
Look around and you will take note Middletown is becoming a non profit, public sector network. That's alot of fat and tenure there, that will be bloated and expected to protect itself by others that vote for these levies, and wasted spending.
Instead of recruiting indiviauls to run for office, why not recruit those tough guys and gals down in West Chester that soundly get the message to the schools and city halls who runs city hall? Maybe then Middletown would change. Bill, MUM will be here because they have tenured profs, the good life with all the baggage of pensions and money with no worries about career ending, job cuts, so inspite of any competition, MUM and Cinci State will happily co-exist. ROI is a foreign concept in the city, its leaders, and to the two schools which will occupy downtown.
|
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 12:03pm
|
Acclaro
Did you notice last night that they also voted on money for uniforms?
How many more perks do they need? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 12:52pm
|
How about this from Ms. Scott-Jones....
“The issue with this city sometimes is we are afraid to take a chance on anything because of things that have failed in the past,” Jones said. Uh, Ms.Jones....how about the City Centre Mall back in the 70's? How about the Bicentennial Commons that stand today? How about Lake Middletown, now containing silt, weeds, debris and totally unusable? We have taken chances on spending money to enhance the city. The chances have all failed to produce a return on investment in each of the above mentioned cases. What makes you think that, given the situation here, the city will recoup any of the money it is laying out now for these buildings? This is a gamble and probably not a good one on behalf of the taxpayer IMO. There is no sure-fire indication that you and the others have made a good decision on this nor the Verdin arts building. You and the others will still be here when we tell you we told you so when failure becomes imminent. JMO |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 1:21pm
|
Vet, you beat me to the punch---thought EXACTLY the same thing when I read her comment. Gotta gamble huh? Maybe know when to fold them? And this is now to be known as the "destination" site. Really? A destination for folks to visit Middletown because of artists? How many framed prints did Ray Fening sell in his portfolio site at the Manchester? How many days a week is the Artiqe gallery open?
Lets see what programs Cinci State offers. That site can educate students, but how many will be employed in Middletown? Will they want to be commuters once they graduate, tied to the wonders of Middletown? Time will tell.
Vivian, I'm with you on the levies. Recall the ease which the police and fire were told to put their wages (increases) on hold, until the levy passed, then made retroactive. And what about all those cuts? Look how many additions in employees are now in ED, other departments, and now the law department. The fat and the Beast just grows, not diminishes.
At times, I am just speechless. Heck, why didn't they throw in the First Financial Building in the deal as well?
|
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 4:09pm
|
Acclaro My guess is more than $90,000 a year.
|
Posted By: middletownlost
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 7:39pm
|
For all you AJ Smith fans out there I hope you saw his true colors last night at council. Its very obvious he is fixated on the fire department because of his own personal agenda |
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 8:14pm
| what's almost as annoying is his apparent inattention to details, the repetitious questions, the questions to which everyone knows the answer but him, and on and on. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 8:46pm
 ...Please Hire Me, I Could Not Agree With You More.
|
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 9:41pm
|
It's nice to see some people agreeing with the notion that AJ is operating as a compromised city leader with regard to his aspirations of being a fire fighter. Middletown Lost, I have suspected what you described as AJ's "true colors," but it would seem that these "smeared" colors were on full display last night.
And I have to pose the obvious question--why is it that AJ and Anita Scott Jones refuse to entertain the notion that cuts have to be made to the police and fire budgets, which comprise over 70% (public safety) of the city budget? If times are tight and you need to spend less money, wouldn't you look at the area at which 70% of your income is spent and seriously think about cutting spending there?
This seems like a no-brainer to me--if the unions won't accept less than a 3% raise (though it's really more than that when you consider the rising cost of health care--10% or more each year--that the city continues to cover) then that 3% raise has to come at the expense of a few of the positions. And in my opinion, the first place to cut is at the fire department, which AJ seems so desperate to protect (again, making my point about his compromised status as a city council member).
Can anyone explain to me why fire fighters work 24-hour shifts (other than the fact that it allows them to work other part time jobs)? Can anyone explain to me why they have to accompany ambulances most or all of the time? Can anyone explain to me why these guys feel like they're entitled to a 3%+ raise when city tax revenues are flat to declining and the private sector is hemorrhaging jobs and barely paying cost of living increases?
I suppose I sound like I'm coming off as a firefighter-hater, and that's not entirely accurate. I do want professional (non-union) firefighters who are well-compensated for their time, expertise and bravery under potentially very risky conditions. I just happen to believe that we can get by just fine with fewer of them.
Can anyone tell me where I'm wrong on this, and to my point about AJ and Anita, why some of our city leadership can't see this? I agree with Anita on the police issue (a crime-free city is a must before economic development takes hold), but can we please have an adult conversation about whether some people in the city have to be laid off? For further consideration on this issue, I'd ask any of you to research Harrisburg, PA and tell me if Middletown isn't potentially headed in this direction if cost-cutting measures aren't taken seriously. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Anita Scott Jones
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 12:15am
|
Voice of Reason,
I am not going to get into a long diatribe about this issue but my reason for not voting for the budget had nothing to do with the fire department. It was simply an example of information I had requested and it was brushed over. I had other concerns as well and felt that we had a little more time (all of December) to hash them out. We pass whatever we want as emergency and we could have done the same thing with the budget. Obviously my colleagues felt differently. It is a moot point now.
|
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 6:04am
|
Well, say what you may about AJ and the Firefighters' issues, but you must grant him one point: We had several hundred thousand dollars made available (Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant funds) for which an appropriate use would have been repairing/upgrading fire stations. Instead, we chose to squander it on a bike path. No matter how you look at it, fire stations are a necessity, while bike paths are a luxury!!! Until we learn the difference between “NEEDS” and “WANTS”, there will be many deaf ears turned towards the continued moaning and groaning over our dire financial straits. As long as we spend money like drunken sailors on the painted ladies such as “gateways”, “water features”, “bike paths” and the like, don’t cry to me over true needs such as police, fire, and EMS. Sleep in the bed that you made!!! We need to GROW UP and take care of the necessities FIRST!!! We should have put our collective foot down back over a year ago when Kohler conned council into spending over $100,000 just to DESIGN "gateway enhancements" at the I-75/122 interchange. It's a highway interchange, dad-gum it!!! It has to be FUNCTIONAL...not "enhanced"!!!(If the DESIGN costs a hundred Gs, how much do you think the actual "enhancements" will totally cost??? What was just authorized is just the start!!!) ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 10:52am
|
I want Mr Smith, Mr Laubach and Mrs Jones to ask as many questions as they need so they will be well informed before they vote. |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 7:35pm
|
Voice of reason --
I will try to answer your questions about fire fighters.
Can anyone explain to me why fire fighters work 24-hour shifts (other than the fact that it allows them to work other part time jobs)?
We work 24 hours a shift every third day. That averages out to 56 hours per week. My contract is for 51 hours per week. To reduce my workweek from 56 hours per week to 51 hours per week, I get one 24 hour shift off every 33 days. A 51 hour per week fire fighter makes the same amount of money as the 40 hour per week daystaff worker. If you would like me to work a regular 8 hour day, you would have to hire approximately 27 more fire fighters to cover the same amount of hours. It is beneficial to the City to we work 24 hour shifts.
Can anyone explain to me why they have to accompany ambulances most or all of the time?
We don't have to "accompany ambulances", we choose to. When we receive a call that is potentially life-threatening, we send extra help in the form of an engine company. Within the Division of Fire, all but 3 members are paramedics. That means if the engine company shows up first, we can start the same treatment as if the ambulance staffed by 2 paramedics had shown up. If the ambulance arrives first, the engine company will assist if needed or the ambulance can disregard the engine company. We feel it is better to send extra help in the beginning instead of having to wait for help to arrive once the ambulance determines help is needed.
Can anyone explain to me why these guys feel like they're entitled to a 3%+ raise when city tax revenues are flat to declining and the private sector is hemorrhaging jobs and barely paying cost of living increases?
We negotiate a contract with the City and they agreed to pay us the amount we receive. Negotiation is largely based on comparative wages. I don't know if the City has asked us to forgo a raise in '11 or not. Do you know what fire fighters make at present? What do you feel is "well-compensated"?
I suppose I sound like I'm coming off as a firefighter-hater, and that's not entirely accurate. I do want professional (non-union) firefighters who are well-compensated for their time, expertise and bravery under potentially very risky conditions. I just happen to believe that we can get by just fine with fewer of them.
I don't think you sound like a firefighter-hater. I think you sound like a concerned citizen looking for answers. Do you think I am not a professional because I belong to a Union? Do you think current fire fighters should be well-compensated for being put into "very risky conditions"? How many fire fighters should the City employ? Do you have a working knowledge how we operate? Stop in a fire house and ask fire fighters your questions, we would be glad to answer them.
Ashkicker
|
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 8:15pm
|
honest straight-forward discourse as it should be.
why the large truck for emergency runs?
any other choice of vehicles?
are the large trucks as medically-equipped as the emergency vehicles?
I have lived in this town for my entire life, and know(or have contactwith) virtually every firefighter for decades--from top down. I have never known a wealthy fire dept.employee. Nic e benny package though.
|
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 9:57pm
|
Ashkicker,
Thank you very much for your answers. I do appreciate your input and willingness to respond to my questions.
You posed a few questions to me, and I'd like to answer them and offer a few more points as well.
First off, to me "well-compensated" would be (given Middletown's cost of living considerations and the level of training that firefighters must attain) a starting salary of about $40,000-$45,000 per year, rising to about $90,000-$100,000 over the course of a career, in today's dollars. For the chief and other leadership positions, I wouldn't mind paying $120,000 or more. And actually it wouldn't bother me at all if Middletown had the highest salaries of any fire department in the area--this would be a good selling point when trying to lure the best possible employees to the city. So that's what I consider well-compensated--at or near the highest pay levels in the area for comparable skill sets. I would imagine that the numbers I've thrown out there are fairly similar to what is being paid out now to our firefighters, but as I said, on an individual basis it wouldn't bother me if they were higher--it's the large collective spend that is troublesome. We as a city should seek to get the most highly motivated fire professionals to fill the ranks, since I am certain you get the most bang for your buck when you ask more of people (but pay more) than you do by simply paying average or below-average salaries but staffing with additional people. It's simply easier for people to "coast" in such an environment. I can't imagine many of your fellow firefighters would be opposed to such a high-compensation/high-expectation philosophy, and those who are might just be those who prefer to coast.
Next, to your point about 24-hour shifts--I must say, I am skeptical of this. I will accept that you are at the station for a period of 24 consecutive hours as your scheduled workday, but how much actual work is being accomplished during this time? How much of the 24 hours is spent sleeping or eating? I don't blame you for sleeping or needing to eat during such a lengthy span (anyone would do the same), but I have to seriously question whether the 24-hour shift gives the city the best possible coverage for responding to emergencies. There's no way a person can be fully alert and functional for such a long period of time. Even working a 16-hour day at a desk is very tiresome for anyone, much less if you have to exert yourself the way firefighters are asked to do. This is the only profession I've ever heard of that schedules in such a way--would we ask our police departments to work a similar sort of shift? Certainly not, since a person could not effectively function for such a long period of time. I don't necessarily claim to have the answer to this, so maybe I shouldn't complain, but I have a hunch that having, say, 3 or 4 12-hour shifts each week, with another "on-call" shift would be a more effective way of covering the city. Maybe this has been extensively studied and maybe I'm wrong, but I am certain that there are not 24 hours worth of productivity occuring for each person during each of their shifts.
As far as the negotiated contracts--I agree with you, the city agreed to pay you "x" so they ought to live up to their end of the deal. And I agree that they should. The problem, as I understand it, is this: if the city and the union can't come to an agreement on a deal, the matter goes to binding arbitration (according to Ohio law) and the matter is settled, generally in favor of the union. If I don't have my facts straight then please let me know and fill me in. This clearly makes it difficult for the city to negotiate from a strong position if the union knows that the arbitrator will rule in their favor.
Finally as to the union aspect of things--I am quite certain that a person can be very "professional" in their demeanor and the way they go about their work while still belonging to a union. So it's not the individual effort or expertise that bothers me, it's the "us vs. them" mentality that a union tends to promote. But I will give credit where credit is due--I am proud of the fact that I never read about our union leaders in the paper taking up such a militant anti-city position as some union leaders do (the former police union head of Cincinnati comes to mind, although her name escapes me at present). As far as I can tell our union and city have a good working relationship and there isn't the angst present that some cities have to deal with. So I commend your leadership in that aspect. But I am of the opinion that a person ought to rely on their education, their training, their commitment and their value to the organization as a basis for their continued employment, not the threat of a strike or union grievance.
Consider this--why doesn't the military unionize? Is there something that feels wrong about that? If so, what? It certainly feels wrong to me, and I would argue that it's because the military, not unlike police and fire employees, are expected to be committed to serving their community and a higher cause of protecting the citizenry. You are held to a higher standard because of our dependence upon you, and no doubt when we're in need we expect you to be there, no questions asked. And for that I am grateful, don't get me wrong. But if there's that wedge between the fire/police union members and the democratically elected city leadership then there's a serious problem. (Again, I don't perceive any major divisiveness in Middletown, but in my opinion the threat of that is ever-present with a union relationship, particularly in tough times).
That's my perspective. I would be glad to read yours or other responses. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 10:03pm
|
Ms. Scott Jones,
What was the information that was brushed over? If the city administration did not resolve your questions then I agree that you have a right to withhold judgment on the budget, and they should not have done that.
What were the other concerns that you had? Specifically, where do you feel more or less should have been spent? I would like to hear this, as it may impact my own perception of the other council members decisions to vote for the budget as is. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 10:36pm
|
Ashkicker, I always enjoy the depth and irectness of your responses. Well thought and articulated.
I have a former Ohio fire chief in the family and was engaged to the daughter of a Chief in Atlanta. State that only that I have a very good feel for the structure and running of the stations and such. Its a moot point for me to bring up anything about collectibe bargaining, runs, and such. The police get far more overtime than the fire department, but the deputy chiefs many times stay where they are to get it, instead of being chief. The perks in benefits are fantastic, and by law, I believe the city and county 9if a county employee), have to pay into the OPERS pension, 20% of salary. That's why the "double or triple dip is so accepted as a cost benefit---pay salary to those already drawing a pension.
The job is dangerous, but so is working at AK or driving down I-75 to get to the office on Vine Street. To my knowledge, I don't think there have been a handful of firemen whom were killed in action in Middletown in a century (thankfully).
I heard a reliable source who owns several gas stations in the area, a city employee in the tax division stated 50% of Middletownians are unemployed. I simply cannot see how these wages and benefits are sustainable in the city, although city hall seems to find a way to always be able to add people, while talking the "tight" talk too often. My gripe about the union is it is a means of advancement and security. Look at the standards to the police chief: seniority and getting highest score with minimum of 70%. That's why neither department wants to make cuts, because it impedes the ladder upward mobility (pardon the pun).
Enough said. Just a suggestion the union head should be looking at the trends and think about serious negotiation, same for police. These benefits and pensions, and pretty nice pay, at six figures in Middletown, is a very comfortable existence. We both know the high % of firemen that work side jobs, or do HVAC. etc., on the days they have off.
Great profession, just like all public sector has become. Man, was I fool to think I'd work for 40 years at my first career endeavor. Today, average turnover top to bottom, in private sector is 3 years. I'll take 30 years and out at 50 any day of the week. Average fed pay is $150 kk. I think you'll see some changes coming in the future, including OPERS raising retirement age.
|
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 10:43pm
|
Acclaro,
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but the 50% unemployment number in Middletown is not nearly accurate. I would question the validity/sanity of that source if I were you. They either are vastly confused about statistics and percentages or they have no understanding of how unemployment is calculated. It does make me worried that if a person in the tax division of Middletown thinks 50% is the correct number. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 10:46pm
|
Oh, and Ms. Scott Jones, I would be remiss if I didn't give credit where credit is due--I agree with your stance that the city has to take chances on things like Cincy State, even with the City Centre Mall, Lake "Mistake" and other failures fresh in our memory.
Those bad ideas do not inherently mean that investing in Cincy State is also a bad idea. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 12:16am
|
Spiderjohn,
why the large truck for emergency runs? any other choice of vehicles? are the large trucks as medically-equipped as the emergency vehicles? All engines carry paramedics, paramedic supplies and drugs for the serious calls. Engine 82 and Quint 84 both are equipped with defibrillators for heart attack victims. Engine 81 and Engine 83 are equipped with AED's for heart attack victims. The engines can do almost everything as a medic except transport the patient.
By the way, 1000 is not a good reason to stop posting. I enjoy and look forward to reading your posts. Please reconsider your departure.
Voice of reason
Top paid fire fighters make approximately $58,500. A number I have heard in the past is an average of $75,000 for each fire fighter. I feel pretty good that we fall within your $90,000-$100,000 range.
I am having a problem following your logic. You state " I can't imagine many of your fellow firefighters would be opposed to such a high-compensation/high-expectation philosophy, and those who are might just be those who prefer to coast". Are you saying the current fire fighters are just coasting? I know this is a leap, but are you suggesting if fire fighters were paid more, we would work harder and therefor not need as many fire fighters?
The 8 (or 12) hour shift vs. the 24 hour shift is something most people cannot comprehend. I'm not saying you are dumb, it's a totally different beast. When I started the 24 hour shifts from the norm of an 8 hour shift, it's different than what I thought it would be. There are still aspects of my job my wife doesn't understand. If we were to sit down at a table we might be able to see this issue similarly.
Negotiations - if the sides cannot reach an agreement, the contract goes to fact-finding. The Union gives their argument, the City gives their argument. The fact-finder can recommend the Union side, the City side or something else. That is not binding. If either side rejects the fact-finder, it goes to concilliation. The Union gives their side, the City gives their side. The concilliator must choose the Union side OR the City side. The concilliator has no latitude, it's one side or the other. Concilliation is binding. Now the fact-finder and the concillator are choosen off a list. The list contains an odd number of names. Each side goes back and forth striking names until only one is left. Now image you are on the list and your awards are "generally in favor of the union". Who do you think the City is going to strike first? In the awards I have seen, generally, it is about a 50/50 split. You can't make much money if you are stricken from the list early in the process.
As fire fighters, we are prohibited by law to strike. If we didn't have collective bargaining, the City could say take it or leave it and we would have no recourse. Do you remember the public safety levy? We (the citizens and the fire fighters) were told it was necessary to MAINTAIN our public safety services. I'm not exactly sure of the split, but I beleive it was around 60/40 in favor of the police department. We lost a Deputy Chief, fire training Captain and Fire Marshal this year. Those position cuts have put a strain on the department.
|
Posted By: Anita Scott Jones
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 12:22am
|
Voice of Reason,
My main concern centers around the reserves and how we got to 25% without new revenues coming in and the public safety levy not bringing in what was projected. Now, we are spending down to 15% and I don't agree that the path taken is the best. I believe that the budget can be further simplified. The city staff has their job to do and we have ours. I simply view the budget from a different perspective. A budget is just that. It can be conservative or liberal (forgive the political analogy) as far as assumptions go. Just because something has been done a certain way for years doesn't mean it is the best way. I commend the staff for their efforts. However, I also believe that our budget is overly cumbersome.
|
Posted By: Anita Scott Jones
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 12:24am
| The decisions we make will always put us in a catch 22 stance. However, we should never get to the point where we don't try. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 4:08am
Usually, I find your posts most informative and logical, but for some reason I just can’t seem to follow you on this subject. Now I get it if there is a multi-vehicle accident, or victims trapped in cars, or a structure collapse, or similar circumstances. I also understand if the engine is simply much closer than the life squad. What I can’t understand is why the engine should respond to other calls when it seems likely that the squad will get there first and there is only one victim involved. I also remain confused as to why two vehicles must accompany a single victim to the ER. (I am assuming that “ER” means hospital emergency room.) Any help that you can provide will be appreciated. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
ashkicker wrote:Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 7:26am
|
ashkicker- for my family's needs, you guys in the medic units and the big red fire trucks are a blessing. The wife has had two seizures since her stroke back on Oct of 2009. Scary thing to see someone having a seizure and being helpless to do anything about it. Called 911 on both occasions and the medics and a fire unit were dispatched and arrived within 5 min. Nice to have four or five responders who know their stuff show up when you think your wife is dying before your eyes.
God Bless you and your other professional colleagues. The fire department response, the medical care she received at Atrium in Emergency, ICU and in Rehab and the supporting cast are a very bright spot in a town with alot of other problems. You folks are NOT one of those problems IMO.  
|
Posted By: middletownlost
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 7:42am
|
Ashkicker, please stop your whining over losing three positions, when the police have not only lost 12 positions since 1996, but three administrative positions as well (2 deputy cheifs and a Lieutenant).
The reason the MPD gets 60/40 is because not only have they lost more positions, their call volume is double the MFD or close to it.
The fact is that arbitration is bad for the future. It has gotten to the point where non union employees get nothing while fire and police continue to get raises each year no matter how good or bad performance is. This city cannot keep handing out raises left and right while income into the city does not increase. How hard is that to understand? It's basic economics.
The average public appreciates what you all do in public safety, but they dont appreciate the constant crying and whining over your cut administrative positions and salary increases. I have a degree, have worked for my company for years and been given outstanding annual performance evaluations and have yhet to see a raise in 3 years. You know why? We cant go to an arbitrator and hold our employer hostage for more money - BECAUSE THERE IS NONE.
Both the fire and police departments keep us all safe and do a great job. You have helped my family as well as my friends. But what do you want the city to do? The city is dying, not thriving. I know for a fact that the police department has as little as 7-8 officers out on busy saturday nights. Thats it. In a city of 50,000. So you arent the only part of the city hurting for staffing.
Try to think about it from a public point of view.
|
Posted By: middletownlost
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 7:48am
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:12am
|
Ashkicker- I restate I appreciate your articulate communication and devotion to setting he record straight as best you can. To clarify, the 24 hr shifts are such that firemen get to rest, sleep, and are on call at the station. You cook together, which makes the famous "firemen's chili" and other dishes an outcome, as well as forming tight continuity. What about those on call with pagers on weekends, and such---they also could easily amortize the additional hrs and state what you did: adding 16 hrs weekly and calculating the wage per hr looks dismal or a bargain, but its not a constant run 24 hrs non stop.
I would state as many have previously, there is a need or benefit of evaluating augmentation through volunteers, although I would suggest in arguendo, w/o statistical support as I don't have it, that runs, transporting patients from home to hospital, consumes a larger portion of time annually than putting out fires. I'm sorry but I don't see the analogy in danger. Yes, you get paid to fight fires, and I get paid for other skills, but the danger in getting killed statistically, is higher with a long commute than working in a town the size of Middletown awaiting a fire. That is not to say you aren't respected nor appreciated (plural meaning department and individually). The public sector unions, IMO, have just put the state and country in a pinch. The benefits are great, pay fine, and when we discuss the second job opportunities, it is because the work week is shortened. Many would take a 3-4 day week, such as the nurse who works 2-3 12 hr shifts and gets paid 40 hrs, not bad for time management.
I am not pitting fire department vs ploice, both have a service to perform, and other issues associated with compensation, and such. I also recall the Chief indicating that the department could get by with the three cuts you reference.
Anita-Scott Jones- My issue or response to you is you indicated Middletown had to take a risk and had previously been afraid to do so. I disagree resdpectfully. The city has taken many risks, virtually all failures. The city just doesn't seem to get it. Is it a city that wants to establish itself as a commuter town, or an industrial town? PAC is very high risk, as art just doesn't create a destination in heart nor mind. How about a Children's Science Musuem as many cities have, which draw many (including young professional adults)? What is unique about PAC? Have not its other successes been associated with pre-existing destinations that it leveraged? I'm sorry, I just am skeptical this will be a destination for others outside Middletown.
As for the confusion on the budget, those are legitimate concerns. Why is money flowing in and out of the general fund? What was the 25% reserve so critical a few years ago to protect a bond rating, but not now? What is the city doing to improve the ability for the property owner to protect the asset owned? Why does the city own a golf course, an airport? Is that a tangible asset which a clear ROI can be calculated, or a warm and fuzzy "intangible" one, just like art creates a "uality of life" uplift? is a pool a more appealing quality of life benefit, a bike trail, or an art location? How much do the average pieces of PAC cost vs the art reproductions one can buy at the true destinations locally---the Monroe fle markets?
Finally, I have to ask. Why have not you or any of city council, called for the infrastructure funds to be put back in place, so the streets and repairs can be made. If Middletown is not a destination for home buyers, including those desperately desiring to sell to move to West Chester or Mason, why would an art center? I perceive the failures on council and city leadership to be one of prioritization- it just sets the wrong ones, chronically.
I think Cinci State has > potential, but I see it more as a bail-out of the Thatcher estate, and saving The Manchester from LEASE signs.
|
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:25am
|
Good Morning Acclaro,
Thank you for stating the following question in your last post:
"What is the city doing to improve the ability for the property owner to protect the asset owned?"
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:30am
|
M Lost- you missed the point entirely. It was about unions, not fire department vs ploce department (which it appears you avor police). I get it on the Chief, but to say senioroty has liitle import, and unionization, is in error. Getting to Deputy Chief takes promotions, politics, and testing, and interviewing. I don't see 70% a high standard to meet, but that's not what determines who gets the position in Middletown---its politics and other factors not worth mentioning.
You reference the private sector, I agree. You missed the point on unions. Look at Springboro: super resigns, as does the treasurer. Treasurer stays 3 months, has a new job in Miasmisburg I think. What would happen in private sector? Start job in 3 months and begin interviewing? You'd be perceived as someone with a past, moving too much, and the odds of getting a job, impossible. With the unions in public sector, you move easily and rapidly. That was the point- unions, and their impact, not who serves the city better, fire or police.
Playing the "card" who is more valuable to Middletown or any community a lossing hand ML. .
|
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:34am
|
Acclaro,
You state the situation quite precisely. The risks must be calculated risks. The projects must be neccesary to bring businesses and jobs not amenities or special interests projects in these financial crisis times. Hiring of city employees must be limited and even they and their unions must share the sacrifice. It is all about the use and abuse of taxpayers money. We need a balanced budget not a deficit budget. We need a budget that is not only balanced but has within it a plan to take us to a better level. We have been told repeatedly that soon these benefits and pensions are going to bankrupt the city. It is time for financial discipline on everyones part. We need to become financially sound and concentrate for a few years on infrastructure, public safety and jobs period.
Paul Nagy
|
Posted By: middletownlost
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:40am
 Great points.
|
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 9:17am
| What was surprising at the last council meeting, though it shouldn't have been, was when it became apparent that the city (Robinette) had not even discussed with the banks whether it was possible to only purchase the CG&E building. When questioned, Robinette said he would have to look into it "tomorrow" and then some chuckling occurred. Why wasn't this look into beforehand? Why was it assumed the gullible city would just buy up all the properties? I'm not saying the purchase will not work out, just wondering why all options weren't investigated beforehand. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 9:47am
|
What bothers me is the appearance or possibility so much of the decisions are made to support the :historical" area of Middletown homes, where Larry Mullligan, his parents, Mr. Kohler, and others reside. Consider if the city did take a wrecking ball downtown? So what? I repeat----what does Mason have downtown, Springboro, or West Chester? Nothing. Its peripheral outliners by 75 and niche antique stores. I think Cinci State will be fabulous if every program they offer in Cinci is offered in Middletown. PAC---I am doubting Thomas.
But, what provoked the rush to save the Manchester? The legacy of Mr. Thatcher, his dream, or the city workers and council members who place protecting their own personal asset interests (homes on Main Street) above other interests? I have no answers, and I am not indicating that to be the motivation, but PAC and a campus within walking distance of the historic row begs the ? to be asked. If the option was A) tear down the buildings or have a LEASE sign, or B) make a deal with limited revenue coming back into the city, but adds assets to surround the historic area, seems a reasonable question to contemplate.
I request the city simply begin to realize its mission: 1) Protect its citizens 2) Minimize expense and uplift efficency and productivity while providing reasonable infrastructure and driving costs down (raising water bills doesn't meet that objective 3) Investments and divestitures made in areas no city should have an interest, or provides a benefit for a few but not majority (golf and airport).
Its the logic of decisions which remain baffling.
|
Posted By: Bill
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 10:00am
|
Another thought is will the acquisition of the CG&E building result in the removal of the tenants, i.e. Casper & Casper law firm? If they leave town, there goes their tax money. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 10:06am
|
Once again--with these pretty much useless/valueless properties having loans, mortgages and back taxes to clear up in the Thatcher estate, and the long time frame for Cincy St. to take possession and begin operations---- why the urgency to once again decale "emergency legislation"?
Why not take necessary time to get everything sorted out and explained to the taxpaying citizens?
Also notice the waffling by Smith,Becker and Allen, who had reservations/didn't agree with buying the bank buildings--but then quickly voted "yes" on the project. Mayor Mulligan's and ED Robinette's explanations on the whole building package and potential usage would be laughable if this wasn't such an important matter/decision.
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 10:46am
|
If I were an existing owner of commercial property, why would I not be offended by the city taking care of one owner, and not others? As spider stated, Cinci State in no rush, why the city---inheritance tax driving factor?
Mr. Becker was one of the biggest naysayers about downtown....but votes a resounding yes. How many staff does Cinci State estimate will be in Middletown? Is this a small satellitte for them, with the city holding the bag for years to come while they decide what to put in besides culinary?
Ms. Moon had an excellent comment: tearing down parking garage and Swallen's building to save on maintenance and utililies but how much $$$ will be expended awaiting the CS move? This has far more $ than answers. Fire, Ready, Aim continues. Is this the advice Mr. Allen would give a client?
Will the city buy the Jug, CSH building, the Moon Adrion building, K Mart, Save a Lot's (if it closes), and countless others? If not why? I just feel "historic row" in play on this "emergency". Better buy now why pricing is low? Serious questions resound on this acquisition as with PAC.
|
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 11:38am
|
Acclaro It is my understanding that the
Sooo will the City give this building to the Historical Society later?  Since the City wanted all those poor people out of downtown are they going to buy the US Hotel from the Finkleman family also? Lots of questions about a lot of money.... |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 12:24pm
|
Agree Ms. Moon, but the city seems to place certain entities and businesses before the residents. This is reaching serious status. Residents are just getting hammered in Butler Cty associated with mismanagement. Taxes high, cty looking at raising sales tax, to cover mismanagement. When the real estate floor is hit, it will leave many at jarring levels.
What's the hurry to buy? Seems the benefactor is the Thatcher estate, and the historic Main Street owners. Far too many ?'s with no answers, just assumptions and speculation. Wasn't it recent, all teh talk was about the east end---what's perculating out there? The reason for all these emergency sessions is to bypass the time the citizens can riase issues. Same strategy Obama and Company used to cram healthcare reform down our throats.
?????? with no answers. Par for course, but why bother with the public? Father knows best.
|
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 12:48pm
| The essence of governance in Middletown is: "Don't mess with the boss. She rules absolutely!" |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 12:51pm
|
Ms. Moon and Acclaro,
If the city hadn't torn down the Swallen's building and parking garage (which were blighted eyesores and were producing nothing for the city), how would that have altered the costs associated with the Cincy State project? They would be paying to maintain those buildings whether Cincy State was coming or not, so why not get them out of the way and clear the way for some development? The point is that if they hadn't torn them down they would still be paying to maintain them anyway, so there is no incremental additional cost to the city. Think about this: would you have preferred that they not tear down the Swallen's building and parking garage and instead pay to maintain those useless structures? What exactly is your alternative?
As far as saving the Manchester--it seems like a great way to save a historic landmark and also satisfy the needs of Cincy State. And we can argue all day long about whether the city is getting a good deal or not at the prices they have agreed to pay for the buildings, but the fact that the city is paying substantially less than the appraised taxable value is at least an indicator that they aren't getting the worst deal possible.
And Acclaro--there is a pretty clear difference in why the city would want to buy the Manchester and not the Jug--that being the Cincy State deal. I know of no community colleges interested in operating out of the Jug. Do you? Is this a bailout of the Manchester? Maybe, but it is my understanding that the Manchester has been losing money for quite a while now, so they could have simply shut their doors if they really wanted to, and it serves the City's purposes quite nicely to obtain that asset and lease it to Cincy State. You can hardly argue that it's a bailout of the Manchester when there is this potentially great deal for the city occurring at the same time. A bailout of the Manchester would involve the city purchasing it with no other user in sight. Then I would certainly agree that the Manchester had been bailed out, but that's not the case here.
One final question for Ms. Moon and Acclaro: what specifically should the city have done differently with regard to this Cincy State matter? How else could they have convinced Cincy State to come to Middletown without the Manchester and nearby buildings? What else should the city be doing differently? ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Molly
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 1:43pm
| I hope someone can inform me of what happens to the buildings the city bought, should Cincy State decide not to come here? I don't believe there are any contracts between Cincy State and the city that are binding, unless I am mis-understanding something. |
Posted By: What A City
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 1:59pm
|
Molly- we were told by the mayor and the vice-mayor that the Cinci State-CIty agreement was a hand shake and done in "gentlemen's agreement style",and that no formal written agreement was done. Lease only, no purchase. We were also told that the city had to purchase the buildings for Cincy State as they were "not allowed" to buy them because the college chancellor wouldn't allow it. (I think that is accurate) Cinci State had some financial issues from the past and they were playing "catch- up" to be able to purchase more property. This, coming from the Laubach 3rd Ward meeting at Wildwood on the 17th. The question was asked about what happens if they decide to leave when it quit working for them and how would the city handle taking care of 4 buildings that would be vacant with no takers. The response from them was that they felt good about the deal and they didn't think that would happen. Seems to me this is a 99% risk factor for the city and a 1% risk factor for the college. Same with Verdin and his arts center. What happens if and when Verdin decides to call it quits on the arts thing? City will own another building to do what with it?????? If that happens , some folks sitting behind that council desk have some explaining to do.
Might be an awfully high price to pay for a venture that is certainly high risk at best. Guess this council hasn't learned a darn thing about high risk ventures from the past, have they?
What should the city be doing about this situation? Lowering the risk for the city in the use of taxpayer monies for these high risk ventures. City should have leased these buildings from the Thatcher estate and done a month by month lease to the college and arts center. Not purchased the building s IN THE HOPE that the deals work out. Couldn't do that, then no deal. College and Verdin should have been asked to provide some skin to the game. Too skewed to the college and the arts center as to who gets the elevator and who gets the shaft. JMO
|
Posted By: Molly
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 2:28pm
Thanks, WAC! I guess if Verdin goes under, there may be a market for automobile hoods at Cohen Bros.
|
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 2:31pm
|
Your city is like going on a date with someone who has low self-esteem and is in desperate need of attention. They're willing to do anything to get some luvin'. |
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 8:24pm
|
VOR, to clarify, let me re-phase my comments and analogy picked up by Ms. Moon. The city tore down buildings to save maintenance expense. The city is buying buildings in capital, and will be paying maintenance some future date and potential promise, Cinci State will lease the buildings. The difference is the annual expense for the destruction of the buildings in one case, may become the expenditure in the future. The Manchester is a landmark? Then the city should also be buying the Sorg Mansion? Should it continue to other historic sites?
There is no risk for either Cinci State nor PAC, other than reputation, and if it fails, it will be they tried to help Middletown out. That is even how the Provost at Cinci State characterized the relationship---"we want to help Middletown turn things around. The city is spending funds with absolutely no documented nor attempted ROCD in this venture. I just hope all those new;ly arriving Cinci State students can make it downtown w/o being pulled over for a traffic violation, and have their car impounded. Heard today Middletown is the highest city in Ohio for impounding fees---$100.00, and averages about 7-10 cars daily.
As for the Jug, Dilman's, CSH, that was a statement of where does this end? I'm on record I hope Cinci State is wildly successful, and so many people want to move into the city. Same with PAC. I sincerely hope there are so many buyers out there, the BMW X5's, Saab wagons, and Range Rovers are bursting the streets with pieces hanging out their back-end.
|
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Nov 19 2010 at 11:05pm
|
Mr. Presta,
I should have clarified my answer a bit better. I guess the engine accompanies the medic to the ER maybe once every 20 runs. That is truly a guess. Most of the time the engine is released from the scene after the medic crew decides it doesn't not need more hellp. Again, the engine is only dispatched in cases where the 911 operator feels it is a life or death situation. As far as needing an engine company when the medics will probably arrive first is again based on life or death situations. In a serious situation, two paramedics need help to provide the best care. In a typical heart attach case we will start an IV, give oxygen, put the patient on a heart monitor, get medications ready for adminstration, take vitals, take information and relay that information to the ER. While the two paramedics assigned to the squad can do all those procedures, there will be a delay in transport time. The key is rapid transport after the patient is stabilized.
The reason the engine goes to the ER is continuity of services. It might take the squad 30 minutes to write the report, clean the clean and restock. If the engine crew had to wait for the squad to get back into service and then be transported back to their station, that engine company could be out of service for an hour. If the squad were enroute to drop off the engine crew and were dispatched to another run, the engine would be out of service even longer.
Middletown lost,
I come to this site to answer questions. I don't come here and start bellyaching about cuts. Voice of reason had some concerns and wanted information, I tried to provide him with answers. The statement that we have been cut is a fact. The fact that we lost a entire engine company is probably whining to you. What do you tell the citizens that live near the firehouse at Central and Breiel that the fire coverage that used to be one or two minutes away is now five or six minutes away. If that doesn't seem like a long time to you, try holding your breath the extra minutes. At the same time time, fire coverage east of I-75 is better with the opening of the fire house on Cincinnati-Dayton road and those citizens have not been in the city as long. We have lost more than 3 adminstrative positions, we lost nine positions when engine 5 shut down. I think 9 and 3 make 12.
Call volume double? Probably. Do you know how often the PD has other agencies send in mutual aid? I don't. I don't see outside agencies within the city very often. On the other hand, it is almost a daily occurance for the fire department to have to call in mutual aid. We are stretched thin at times. Not 24 hours per day, but at some times. That is not a whine, it is a fact.
Arbitration (I guess you mean contract concilliation) can be good or bad depending on your perspective. If the City wins at concilliation, you would probably think it good and I might think its bad. If the Union wins at concilliation you would probably think its bad and I would think its good. I do not know how many times salary negotiations have been decided by a concilliator, that would be a good question for Les Landen or the Union President. I do understand basic economics, I have my own household to run. I cut where I have to and at times spend more on other things than what I want. Bottom line is you have to do what you have to do to survive. In this case, our jobs are in the citizen's hands.
Degree, outstanding evaluations and no raise. Do I hear a hint of a whine from you?
I do think about the city from the public point of view. I drive the same rough streets. If I need a police officer, I call the same 911 dispatch center. I pay income tax just like you do.
I never addressed the police chief position, I can only speak about the fire chief position.
acclaro,
I have posted several times on this site and have always stated the same concerning our 24 hour shifts. We do not physically work 24 hours per day and have never shied away from stating those facts. We do rest, sleep and cook on a daily basis, but it is still the most economical way to cover the city. But what goes along with resting, sleeping and cooking is (Middletownlost will consider this a whine) getting up from a dead sleep and be expected to go a full speed. All that cooking can taste awful bad after sitting on the table for an hour while we make runs. Don't get me started on going to the restroom and hearing your unit being dispatched on a run. Every job has its good points and bad points.
I must admit my ignorance on the last couple of sentences in your post about pagers, amortizing and calculating the wages. I would appreciate if you would put your point into layman's terms.
Ashkicker
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 11:38am
|
Ashkicker, as you take the time to post on the fire department, I certainly owe you a response. My reference was you were using the 24 hr shift to indicate you worked the equivalent of roughly a 54-56 work week. My point was you are at the station, but its not as if you are working 3 triple shift at AK. You can sleep, cook, do the activities when things aren't going non stop. The same holds true for the nurse or doc on call, they have to available to response to calls if they cover a weekend etc. The difference between a 24 hrs shift for firemen is drastically different than a 24 hr driver of a snow plow, working non stop in the specific function. Hence, while using the 24 hr shift, which I understood your meaning, its a different situation entirely than a true 24 hr shift. It would be like to traveling on a business trip, where I stay overnight as a Partner in my firm, as indicating I worked 5 consecutive 24 hr shifts, because I was away from home. Then going to my Managaing Partner, and saying, hey, this is unfarir, I just worked 120 hrs this week, and got paid for 40.
Thx for your responses.
|
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 12:10pm
|
Acclaro,
Thanks for being an active MiddletownUSA participant!
Your insightful commentary is valued in clarifying issues for many concerned taxpayers.
Also, your probing questions must be a source of consternation for senior City Hall staff.
Your presence provides added credibility in our mutual quest for the return of transparent, accountable and cost reasonable governance in Middletown.
|
Posted By: ashkicker
Date Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 1:03pm
|
acclaro
I realize we are probably playing word games here, but your analogy is way off. While you may be away from home for those 120 hours, you will only be expected to work during those 40 hours you were paid. If I were to work 5 consecutive 24 hour shifts at the fire house, I would be expected to work, or be ready to work, for the entire 120 hours.
Ashkicker
|
Posted By: acclaro
Date Posted: Nov 20 2010 at 4:04pm
| Ash, untrue. I work in my hotel room, for hours on business. I am away from my family, the same as you. I sleep, the same as you, and answer pages, the same as you. Really no difference. You are expected to respond in the event of a fire, I understand that. Sometimes it very busy, other times it is not. When its not busy, you sleep, and aren't expected to be awake 24 hrs. When I travel, I sleep, but am away from the family. Really no different in my 120 work week than yours, except I get a salary, and no overtime. |