Is It time For A Recall?
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3394
Printed Date: Nov 23 2024 at 2:17pm
Topic: Is It time For A Recall?
Posted By: randy
Subject: Is It time For A Recall?
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:12pm
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Ok, I have mentioned this in the past, but after last nights meeting I think it is time we move forward. Who would you like to see recalled and removed from council and why do you feel that way?
I am in favor of Picard being being removed, and is really is nothing personal. But logic says that we cant remove Allen because he was appointed, no reason to remove the mayor, Becker or Scott-Jones as they are up for reelection next year, I am happy with AJ and Josh as they seem to be tying to move the city in the right direction. so that only leaves Mr. Picard.
I just want to know who would be willing to step up and take part, knock on doors and do what needs to be done. This is not a person job it will take many to make this happen. Also who would replace him?? Any volunteers? ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:47pm
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Not so sure that Allen can't be recalled. Suggested before about calling Betty McGary down at the Butler County Board of Elections for details on recall and to obtain the proper forms, getting a list of registered voters in Middletown and setting up a network in all sections of the city to take the forms for registered voter signatures. We need a central coordinator to align this network. Need a central coordinator volunteer, need many in each section of the city to coordinate signature acquisition, need a person to run to Hamilton to tell McGary what we are attempting to do and get the proper paperwork and instructions.
Obviously, I'd like to see Becker, Allen, Picard and Mulligan gone for the overall good of the city and to attempt to turn control over to the people who wish to guide the city in the correct direction. As a secondary issue, I would like to see the city manager, the Planning and Econ. Dev. Director and Law Director fired by the new council if step "A" should happen. It will do no good to just replace the council if we are not planning to eliminate the people responsible for feeding council hand-selected bits of information with which to make a decision. The best people on council can only conduct the city's business properly if they are given truthful information. If the current game is run on them, they will be no more effective than the current bunch. JMO |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 12:53pm
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I have placed the call the BOE and we need voters from the ward the council memeber is from and if it is an at large member than it would be voters from the entire city. The only way to get rid of city staff is to have a council that will step up and do it. As for the Allen thing I will call back and find that info as well. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:06pm
705.92 Procedure for removal of elective officer by recall.Any elective officer of a municipal corporation may be removed from office by the qualified voters of such municipal corporation. The procedure to effect such removal shall be: (A) A petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to at least fifteen per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election, and demanding the election of a successor to the person sought to be removed, shall be filed with the board of elections. Such petition shall contain a general statement in not more than two hundred words of the grounds upon which the removal of such person is sought. The form, sufficiency, and regularity of any such petition shall be determined as provided in the general election laws. (B) If the petition is sufficient, and if the person whose removal is sought does not resign within five days after the sufficiency of the petition has been determined, the legislative authority shall thereupon order and fix a day for holding an election to determine the question of the removal of the elective officer, and for the selection of a successor to each officer named in said petition. Such election shall be held not less than thirty nor more than forty days from the time of the finding of the sufficiency of such petition. The election authorities shall publish notice and make all arrangements for holding such election, which shall be conducted and the result thereof returned and declared in all respects as are the results of regular municipal elections. (C) The nomination of candidates to succeed each officer sought to be removed shall be made, without the intervention of a primary election, by filing with the election authorities, at least twenty days prior to such special election, a petition proposing a person for each such office, signed by electors equal in number to ten per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election for the head of the ticket. (D) The ballots at such recall election shall, with respect to each person whose removal is sought, submit the question: “Shall (name of person) be removed from the office of (name of office) by recall?” Immediately following each such question, there shall be printed on the ballots, the two propositions in the order set forth: “For the recall of (name of person).” “Against the recall of (name of person).” Immediately to the left of the proposition shall be placed a square in which the electors may vote for either of such propositions. Under each of such questions shall be placed the names of candidates to fill the vacancy. The name of the officer whose removal is sought shall not appear on the ballot as a candidate to succeed the officer’s self. In any such election, if a majority of the votes cast on the question of removal are affirmative, the person whose removal is sought shall be removed from office upon the announcement of the official canvass of that election, and the candidate receiving the plurality of the votes cast for candidates for that office shall be declared elected. The successor of any person so removed shall hold office during the unexpired term of the successor’s predecessor. The question of the removal of any officer shall not be submitted to the electors until such officer has served for at least one year of the term during which he is sought to be recalled. The method of removal provided in this section, is in addition to such other methods as are provided by law. If, at any such recall election, the incumbent whose removal is sought is not recalled, the incumbent shall be repaid the incumbent’s actual and legitimate expenses for such election from the treasury of the municipal corporation, but such sum shall not exceed fifty per cent of the sum that the incumbent is by law permitted to expend as a candidate at any regular municipal election. Effective Date: 08-22-1995 |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:18pm
| Throw in a referendum to have the outsiders sit on Boards and Commissions while the signatures are being gathered for a recall. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:23pm
| I think Pacman worked this out to be around 1500 registered voter signatures for the recall. Do you all think we can get that amount from over 8000 registered voters? While we're at it, to save time, be as efficient as we can and to do a thorough job of it, might as well include the school board recalls as well as a petition for returning the misappropiated money from the street fund to the general fund from the 80's and returning that money back to the street fund. Do it all in one pass through town. |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 1:29pm
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It has been the required 1 year mark yet but it is close and by the time we got everything together it would be
* The question of the removal of any officer shall not be submitted to the electors until such officer has served for at least one year of the term during which he is sought to be recalled. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 2:42pm
| I'd sign to recall any school board member that supports tearing down Roosevelt School! |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 5:17pm
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In the November 2009 Election there were 8424 votes cast in Middletown. Now you need 15% of that number or 1264 registered voters to sign a recall petition. You will also need X amount over that to account for people who sign that aren't register, don't live in Middletown, etc. So, what about 1500-1600 signatures allowing 200-300 to be thrown out. The 8424 is not the total number of Registered voters in Middletown, it is the Number of Registered voters in Middletown who actually voted in the last election.
The next question is we are 13 days away from the Nov. 2010 election. I don't think we want to start this before then. Will more voters come out for the upcoming election than in 2009 hard to say, depends how much people are fed up with the current administration and are ready for a change.
We will most likely end up using the results of the Nov. 2010, election to figure how many signatures would be needed. I would say if this is going to done then take the next 2-3 weeks to get organized.
I would also agree with Wasteful to do a referendum if it is possible on the Commission and Boards issue. Kind of lets send a message that we are tired of not being listened to, except when it is convenient for Council and Admin as it was with the Pendleton issue. The the citizens comments was integral in the decision making process.
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Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 5:31pm
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I agree with the waiting to get organized, but I have had a few talks with the BOE and it is my understanding that we only need the voters of whatever ward we will be looking to have the recall on. So in this case it would be fourth ward voters. If that is the case this number will drop a lot. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 6:26pm
Randy can you have whomever you talked to send you that in writing, as the way 705.92 of the ORC reads it doesn't clearly state that, that I can see.
705.92 Procedure for removal of elective officer by recall.Any elective officer of a municipal corporation may be removed from office by the qualified voters of such municipal corporation. The procedure to effect such removal shall be: (A) A petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to at least fifteen per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election, and demanding the election of a successor to the person sought to be removed, shall be filed with the board of elections. But if that is the case then you would need 15% of 1615 voters of the Nov. 2009 election or however many vote in the Nov 2010 election. Just using the 2009 figures you would need 243 plus a small cushion for the illegal signatures. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 6:46pm
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Pacman wrote:Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 6:52pm
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Wasteful, I am awaiting an email now. ------------- Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com" rel="nofollow - www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357 |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 9:19pm
| Pacman, I think your comment about "not being listened to" brought to mind the possibility that many MUSA posters are getting all frothy at the mouth and overestimating their importance on this recall idea. The fact that a dozen people get on here and disagree with certain actions does not mean the rest of the populace agrees that the will of the people is being ignored. For example, I have talked to a few of my old Middletown friends who have thought PAC was a nice idea or at least one that might have some promise. Don't forget, many in this town either don't care about much of anything or don't follow city news 24/7 like many of you do. |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 9:20pm
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To those of you who want a recall--who would you prefer was in City Council? And don't tell me anyone would be better than the current council, that's fool's logic if there ever was. Are any of you willing to step up to the plate and put your name out there?? ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:00pm
| That all depends VOR. If the voters of say the 4th ward are the ones needed for the recall, the person to replace Picard would have to come from the 4th ward also. If it were citywide that would be another matter altogether. We will have to wait for an answer from the BOE. |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:29pm
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Ok, then, how about some candidates from the wards whose counil member is to be recalled--who from Picard's ward? Who will replace Becker? Who from Allen's ward? Who will be the next mayor? Dare I suggest who from Laubach's, ward, AJ's ward, or who you would replace Scott Jones with?
I will reiterate my point--if you don't like the current crop, then please give me at least a few names who will serve as replacements. Otherwise you are falling into a fallacy in your reasoning--that anyone is better than the current council. If you believe this then you are simply showing that you are a person who hasn't fully thought out the consequences and later steps.
I am not accusing you, Pacman, of being this person, I am just stating that such an unreasoned opinion can't be listened to. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Rhodes
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 10:39pm
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I'm telling you people, and I've said it before and nobody ever comments on it.... This is NOT going to make things better. The only way to get council under control and force them to make the city EMPLOYEES (including city manager, etc.) work ONLY on behalf of the citizens is to limit each term to 1 year. Congress only gets 2 years at a time. Why do we have to get stuck for 4 whole years with any of these people? This new guy that was "appointed"? We are stuck with him for how many years and he wasn't even voted in by the citizens? Isn't that how our "weird facial reaction" mayor got on council? All because other council members voted him in to replace someone else?
Nothing will change till the rules change. I just don't know how to do that given the current 4 year terms. It would probably take 10 years to get it under control if it was even possible. Council should also be reduced to no more than 5. Middletown does not need 7 council members for a city of approx. 50,000. Half of the current council members just sit there like lumps anyway. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 11:25pm
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Rhodes,
I don't know about one year, but I certainly would agree with TWO YEAR TERMS. However, municipal elections are usually held in odd-numbered years. (I don't know whether or not this is State law.) If elections must be held in odd-numbered years, and they were two-year terms, then all terms would expire at once. Some people dislike this. Just a thought. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 20 2010 at 11:34pm
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Rhodes, yes, our Mayor was appointed as I recall, to fill the 2nd ward vacancy, but he was elected (in a landslide, mind you) by popular vote to the position of mayor--if memory serves, Mulligan got more than 50% of the vote in a 5-candidate race.
I do agree with you that we only need 5 members on council, I think they will be much more effective when their numbers are reduced. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 9:07am
VOR your Voice of Reason is becoming UNREASONABLE. This matter just surfaced yesterday for the second time this month. Some people are gathering facts and researching the issue. No decisions have been made to even move forward and when or who to recall and who may be interested in running. I would say you are jumping the gun here. If this recall is even to Occur there will have to be some organization and vetting of those that may be interested. On the second day of this issue you are expecting to much speculation on this matter.
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Posted By: TudorBrown
Date Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 12:16pm
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Am I mistaken, or did Allen, Becker, and Picard vote "NO" on giving Laubach the floor to comment again before voting on the Boards issue? If these three actually voted to "shut someone up", that is deplorable... |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 12:22pm
| Yes, Tudor they did. That is the really scary part of this 3 ring circus, you can mute an elected official simply by a 4 to 3 vote. With the animosity on this Council look for it to happen. |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 9:38pm
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Ah, now you are backtracking a bit, I see. But still, Pacman, my question remains--can you give me just one or two names of people you'd rather see on council? If it is the second time this month that the issue has surfaced then surely by now you would have given it some thought...if you had thought that far ahead, which I presume you haven't. You say it's premature to consider who should replace the current council; I would argue that a logical, clear thinking person would already have a replacement in mind if recall was the method.
To consider a recall without replacements is like shooting your gun first, then deciding to aim next.
Can anyone else who advocates a recall give me a name to consider? ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Oct 21 2010 at 11:19pm
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 22 2010 at 3:38pm
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OK--I live in the ward now represented by Mr.Allen
IF he was to be successfully re-called, I would be willing to serve out the remainder of his sentence--err..I mean his term, and under NO circumstances would I seek the position in a following election. One very short stint to halt the bleeding caused by the dark side foursome.
Do I think that I could represent the city as a whole in a better fashion?
YES
I would have my own agenda, and would absolutely not align myself with any faction now serving.
I respect everyone now on board and city staff without necessarily agreeing with anything they are doing at this time.
And I honestly very much like Mr.Allen as a person--just not very much as my Council representative.
You do your job here--and I guarantee that I will fulfill my obligation.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 22 2010 at 4:12pm
Next Time I will twist your arm harder the First Time.
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Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Oct 22 2010 at 8:42pm
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 12:08am
VOR once again I would argue that you are putting the cart before the horse. If a recall is decided upon an organizational meeting will be held and the Council Persons to be placed on the recall Petition will be decided. Whether they come from a ward or at large matters. At that time people to replace them will be decided upon or names put forth and they will be contacted. Now that being said I have no clue who would run in wards 2 and 4 as I know very little about who lives in these wards. But I do know enough people in these wards to go to them and see who would be the best candidates and that will happen. I am not going to sit here and pull names out of thin air to satisfy you. Ward 1 I know several people who could run, do they want to I don't know, it appears one does in Mr. Dillman, who if he has listened to me earlier in the year would have thrown his hat in to the pot when Allen was put in Armbrusters spot. but that was his decision back then.
"To consider",-- The definition of CONSIDER
Unlike you I would prefer to have a meeting and CONSIDER all of the options available. Including the most viable candidates from any area of the city that it may be decided to have a Recall vote.
I would argue that a logical person would not prefer Your shoot from the hip and hope you hit something method. Since that is the method you prefer knock yourself out. I'll take the more organized approach and consult others who have lived here far longer than I have and can assist in making logical decisions.
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Posted By: wannaknow
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:10am
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I just want to know who would be willing to step up and take part, knock on doors and do what needs to be done. This is not a person job it will take many to make this happen. Also who would replace him?? Any volunteers?
Randy, I will volunteer to help in any way I can.I live in this ward and IMO it has received less consideration than any other area in Middletown. This ward includes the much neglected Pioneer Cemetary with the surrounding garbage strewn broken sidewalks, the Riverside Mobile Home Park which has been a haven for the homeless and drug addicts. The abandoned truck parking lot and Aeronca's parking lot are full of trash. I can barely get my baby's stroller across the little canal bridge because it is about 6 inches deep with road crud. I won't even start on the canal which is full of every kind of trash, not to mention the rancid water that becomes a breeding ground for mosquitos in the summer. I was told the city (or state) was supposed to spray to control the mosquito population but heard that they gave that about 5 yrs ago.
I heard from a very reliable source that there was an offer made to the city to open a new business in this area and the city refused to talk with them because they were not planning any improvements to this area at this time.
You can walk the streets in this ward and see all the broken pavement and trash, or you can drive and count all the closed businesses.
I have read MJ articles that talk about the gateway to MIddletown being the east end and how important it is to develope that area. I think the airport is a much larger 'gateway' and should have just a wee amount of their consideration.
I have gotten off subject.
Please let me know what I can do to help.
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Posted By: Franklin Roosevelt
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:34pm
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Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 8:13pm
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Good Lord Roosevelt! Educated people of accomplishment? What the hell does that have to do with making competent decisions concerning this town? Doesn't make any difference how "educated" a person is, if they don't have the ability to reason and make the correct, logical decisions in given situations, they are worthless in a leadership role and to the people they are suppose to serve. "They are qualified to make big decisions".....- What? Have you been paying attention to any of the decisions that have been made in this town in the last 30 frikkin' years? Why do you think this town is in the shape that it is in? Mercy!
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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 9:16pm
This has to be either one of the most Sarcastic or one of the Dumbest Posts on MiddletownUSA. Yeah, Frankie we see where all of the "educated people of accomplishment"......"qualified to make big decsions......" has gotten us. First off I hope those educated people can spell "decsions" correctly.
Infrastructure failing
Schools at the Bottom of the County and State lists.
Poverty doubled in the last 10 years
Section 8 out of control by choice as the "educated people" figured it would stem the flow of neighborhoods declining. I am still laughing at that one. Bring in 4200 people with an average income of less than $11,000.00, or less back when it started. a year is going to help declining neighborhoods......that's a good one.
Business are leaving quicker than rats fleeing a sinking ship.
No jobs are being created in the numbers needed to sustain the city. Only getting the 10-50 jobs here and there if lucky.
Unions have seized control of the General fund by mandate of the State, specifically police and fire.
We now have a City that allows outsiders to be placed on any board or commission to shape policy and make recommendations then they go home and the citizens suffer the repercussions of poor policy recommendations.
Downtown is not even a shell of its past currently.
2000-3000 homes that need to be leveled and no funds to even make a dent in that number.
Hundreds of Homes for sale and no one to buy them due to the poor reputation that Middletown suffers in the area. Poor schools, lack of jobs, lack of effective leadership, lack of entertainment and retail/service amenities, etc. Hey but we got "educated people of accomplishment"..."qualified to make big decisions" according to good old Frankie.
And on and on and on.
Gee, Frankie do us all a favor and go over to Monroe and impart some of your "sage advice"
 as I don't think I can stand to laugh so hard again as I did on the post above."educated people of accomplishment"......"qualified to make big decisions......" Oh man I can't stand it
 what a  you are Frankie. |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 9:34pm
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[QUOTE=Franklin Roosevelt]
Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others. [/Q UOTE] They are con-artist and you sound like you fall in that crowg with that statment. |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 9:40pm
I'm educated but I hit the wrong on my computer spelling crowd,Iam tired because I worked ten hrs today.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 10:53pm
What "big decisions" have you made, Frankie??? (Besides the one to blantantly characterize everyone who posts on this forum as an uneducated kook, lacking any significant accomplishments.) ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 24 2010 at 8:00am
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ONCE AGAIN
DON'T BE DISTRACTED BY THE TROLLS
they are only here because we are winning and gaining support and readership within the community
they want to bring us down to Council's level of in-fighting and distrust
they want to waste your time with responding to the cheap shots(negative dark side mntality)
every time that they post this negative nonsense, please respond by ignoring the posting, followed by putting up something positive and/or constructive.
keep focused doing what you do-how you think
we are winning the fight--they can't handle it-desperation is already setting in
the obsession over this site and the regulars(particularly Mr.Self)within the golden bunker of the former downtown area is HUGE. Don't kid yourselves--they read every word every day. Their former solidarity is cracking at the seams. Their backs are to the wall, and they are beginning to react like a cornered opossum.
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Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 9:02pm
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Pacman, you are delusional. I am advocating the measured, considered approach--I am in favor of having alternative plans in place for replacing coucil members before any recall movement would begin.
This is the exact opposite of how you characterize my approach, as "shoot from the hip." Shooting from the hip is saying "No" to an idea or person without any alternative idea, which is exactly what you are advocating by pushing a recall without any clear alternative candidates. This is an example of "shoot from the hip" and hope for the best if ever there was.
Here's an example that you could probably understand--a lot of people wanted "anybody but Bush" and so they voted for Obama. Many of these people now are considerably regretting that decision and are about to reverse course and will vote for Republicans next week. They, like you, "shot from the hip" and voted for Obama, mostly just to get rid of Bush, without fully understanding what the man was like. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 9:49pm
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Give it a rest VOR, you want to use your approach then get off your ass and do it. I have clearly stated how I feel about the issue and when the info on how a Recall is to be attempted, if at all, and a meeting decided on I will be there. You go on and be a one man band and do your thing. You refuse to listen to anyone other than yourself....and that is your problem not mine. It is not solely my place to just spout out names to make you happy without 1) consulting others in Middletown and 2) without consulting the prospective people to run as a replacement to see if they are even interested.
Also I don't shoot from the hip on matters such as this. If a group of Middletown Citizens decides that it is prudent to move forward with a recall of one or more current Council Members, then all necessary steps will be taken to attempt a recall including finding suitable replacements, prior to the petition being filed.
As far as Obama goes I wasn't naive enough to buy all the crap he was dishing out and while I was no fan of John McCain he was the lesser of two evils in my mind.
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Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 10:00pm
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Pacman, I never advocated recall in the first place--I simply said recall proceedings should wait until other viable candidates are identified.
Thus, I will be on my ass, waiting for the next election day, since ultimately I feel that recall is not warranted at this time, and the next round of elections will serve our purposes just right.
I challenged you to give some names, not for my personal gain, but rather because it is very reasonable to have, as I have said, alternative ideas in place before firing the current lot. This is prudent in many circumstances, politics and otherwise.
As far as listening to others, you are wrong again--I constantly listen to alternative ideas and conclusions. I have my basic principles--limited, responsible government; low taxes; free market approach wherever possilb, etc.--and my policy views flow from these basic principles.
I am always willing to listen to alternative viewpoints and it is always good to dissect them and understand their assumptions.
I am always willing to test my own policy views against other views, since in doing so I will either 1) come to the conclusion that I am wrong and I will therefore correct my view or 2) I will re-affirm my own viewpoint if I find unsound reasoning in the alternative viewpoint or principles that support the other idea that I don't agree with.
This is why I was pressing for names and my approach to the recall procedure--I was not in favor of recall but I wanted to consider other viewpoints and alternative candidates. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 5:51am
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VOR: Just a couple of gentle suggestion: If you are convinced that the recall effort is futile, then let the advocates of same be. Why agitate??? No skin off your nose (unless you have some other agenda). On the other hand, unless you are convinced that we have the absolute best citizen legislators available perhaps you know of possible candidates that may be willing to come forward in what others see as their “hour of need” and can somehow put them in touch with those seeing the need for a recall. After all, shouldn’t the best government available be everyone’s goal??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:09pm
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Mike,
I am not convinced that recall is futile, nor am I convinced recall is the right way to proceed at this time. That's why I am content to wait for election day next year--I am unswayed either way at this point. I was pressing for alternative candidates, because, as I tried to say earlier, I try to always be open to new ideas in order to test my current views.
If someone had pulled forth an "aha" candidate that I thought would be an excellent addition to council then I would be much more inclined to sway towards recall. As it is, nothing much of substance was offered to me so I remain content to wait until next year to voice my opinions. What you call "agitating" I call getting to the heart of the matter--that is, who would replace the current crop if a recall took place.
As you seem to be a clear thinking and logical person yourself (unlike some on the forum), I trust you'll understand that I know of no others currently willing/able to serve that would necessarily be better in elected office than the current council. After all, it's usually very difficult to know how a person will perform in elected office until they are elected to said office. I agree with you that the best government available should be everyone's goal, and by pressing for alternatives to the current council memebers I think I was aiming for exactly that goal. ------------- "Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK |
Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 1:22am
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The 8424 is not the total number of Registered voters in Middletown, it
is the Number of Registered voters in Middletown who actually voted in
the last election.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 6:00am
I know several good people who have never considered political office of any kind. They are intelligent, have clear, logical minds, have no financial interests in the city (other than their homes), but are civic-minded and have only the good of the community at heart. They are recently retired. Some have taken part-time work to stay busy.
I doubt that ANY of these folks would, left to their own devices, ever consider running for public office. They are just too unassuming!!! But who lnows how they might react if approached by a group and asked to step up and serve their community for a couple of years.
These are likely just the type of folks that we need at a time like this, and they likely would serve out the recall term and not run for re-election, so their decisions would be for the common good and not political. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 6:59am
|
Randy- where do we stand on the recall effort? You had contacted the Board Of Elections and talked to McGary. Did she set you up with the details and paperwork needed? OR.......has everyone decided that this is not the right time to push this with elections coming up? Sounds like Mike has some potential folks to consider and we have Spider offering his services. We need more "MUSA" thinking folks to step up.
If the recall/petition route is decided, let me know. I'll take some around in the 3rd Ward as time allows. Need about 1500 signatures as I see it. Any other folks out there that could take some petitions around for registered voter signatures in all sections of the city? Status?? |
Posted By: angelababy
Date Posted: Oct 31 2010 at 10:46pm
|
I would also agree with Wasteful to do a referendum if it is possible on
the Commission and Boards issue. Kind of lets send a message that we
are tired of not being listened to, except when it is convenient for
Council and Admin as it was with the Pendleton issue.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Nov 02 2010 at 11:53am
| Did you get the paperwork for the recall? If so, when/where do we meet to write the petition requirements, pass out the list of registered voters and start walking to get signatures? Or, are we waiting until after the next local election? |