Federal Tax Dollars
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: Community Revitalization
Forum Description: Middletown Community Revitalization News
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3359
Printed Date: Nov 22 2024 at 6:48pm
Topic: Federal Tax Dollars
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Subject: Federal Tax Dollars
Date Posted: Oct 09 2010 at 10:44pm
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In 11/2008 the City submitted a $2,144,000 grant application to HUD. These "Stimulus Funds" are known as Neighborhood
Stabilization Program - Round One (NSP-1) .
Our tax dollars are to be utilized to assist state/local governments in addressing home foreclosure issues. On the City's
website is the latest Progress Report by the Community Revitalization Department. Through 9/30/2010 it notes that nearly
$1,018,000 of funds have been spent. This amount is less than 50% of HUD funds allocated to the City of Middletown.
More interesting are the costs of acquiring and redecorating the following foreclosed homes for later resale:
2605 Elmo -- $149,000+
1016 Gage -- $217,000+
2210 Arlington -- $129,000+
221 Harrison -- $136,000+
1018 Yankee Road -- $149,000+
2100 Tytus -- $142,000+
915 Malvern -- $177,000+
100 Red Bud -- $148,000+
3523 Jewell -- $144,000+
1103 Fourteenth -- $97,000+
Judging from this City sponsored real estate activity it leads one to believe that property values here are escalating.
Does the Community Revitalization Department posess otherwise unknown housing market data than the private sector?
In Middletown surely it's possible to purchase/rehab decent and affordable vacant/foreclosed homes for under $90,000?
Noteworthy is City spending and/or committing funds since March 2010 to avoid potential HUD sanctions?
The source of NSP funding is our Federal tax dollars. We deserve sound stewardship from City staff!
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Replies:
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 9:09am
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Why are they spending money on $100,000 homes ??
I thought that money was to be spent "in the hood" on $40,000 homes ?? (e.g.)
Whats next ? $500,000 homes ?? ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 9:14am
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Hermes,
Excellent..questions..to..ask..the..Prosecutor.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 9:45am
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Questions:
1) Since the city has basically been declared a poverty zone, with 54% of the population living is it below the median income, is it illegal to buy these homes?
2) Is it wise to continue to buy houses in "the Hood" as someone called it when we have 2000-3000 waiting to be torn down?
3) What is the failure rate of the houses "in the Hood" that have been bought previously, how many are in foreclosure or been taken back by the city or however it works?
4) Are not people that can afford the above houses more likely to be able to make the payments?
5) Why were the above houses purchased?
I have more questions but that will suffice for now. I do not know the answers to the above questions does anyone, especially those making accusations?
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 10:56am
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In 11/2008 the City submitted a $2,144,000 grant application to HUD. These "Stimulus Funds" are known as Neighborhood
Stabilization Program - Round One (NSP-1) .
Our tax dollars are to be utilized to assist state/local governments in addressing home foreclosure issues. On the City's
website is the latest Progress Report by the Community Revitalization Department. Through 9/30/2010 it notes that nearly
$1,018,000 of funds have been spent. This amount is less than 50% of HUD funds allocated to the City of Middletown.
More interesting are the costs of acquiring and redecorating the following foreclosed homes for later resale:
2605 Elmo -- $149,000+
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 12:00pm
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Pacman,
Please read the following 3/2008 Middletown Journal feature article about an Iraq war veteran's $84,000 purchase/rehab of a home very,very close to 2605 Elmo. Please explain the substantial differential in project expenditures since HUD funds were/are being utilized in both instances?
Also, your so-called argument about foolishly purchasing $40,000 "In The Hood" houses is both deceptive and illogical. People well-versed in the local housing know that there's
an abundance of $60,000-90,000 decent, repairable homes in neighborhoods that aren't
yet so rundown.
Most anytime that Miss Vivian or I submit posts we expect you to throw out your baseless criticisms.
Rick McCrabb: City program helps
< =text/ ="http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/jsewsworthyAudioC2L.js">
< =text/ ="http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnisharedewsworthy/sharedoh/oh/storyews/local/2008/03/22/sharedoh_oh_story_news_local_2008_03_22_mj032308mccrabbvet.js">
Nine years ago, Blake Freeze — Patrick DeHart's uncle — purchased a three-bedroom house on When DeHart, a medic in the U.S. Army, returned home on leave, he sometimes visited his uncle. Extras His uncle later sold the home, then it fell into disrepair and was foreclosed. Meanwhile, DeHart finished his nine years in the Army — including a 13-month tour of duty in Got that? "It's really a little overwhelming," DeHart said last week while sitting in his sparsely decorated living room. "It's hard to believe everything that has happened." DeHart, 31, recently became the first graduate of Through a government loan, DeHart replaced the lead-contaminated windows and the siding, door and roof on the one-car, detached garage at a cost of about $11,000. Before he was eligible for the assistance program, DeHart, a 1996 Once DeHart's Realtor, Bill Hobbs of Coldwell Banker, located an affordable home, it was inspected by Skip Batten, housing programs manager for "Everybody was real helpful," said DeHart, who is studying to became a nurse and works part-time at the And a few months later, a home — once another vacant eyesore in the city — was occupied by a tax-paying There has to be a catch, right? Nothing is this good? "Where's the negative?" Batten asked. Then he answered: "There is not one." He called it "the greatest thing" he'd seen in the city in the last several years. "We talked the talk," he said. "Now we're walking the walk. "It's exciting to see all the cooperation," People are catching on. In two months, Batten said, the city has rehabbed five houses, including two on Elmo, and five more are scheduled. He can't remember the last time he saw the top of his desk. "I don't like to twiddle my thumbs," he said. "And believe me, I'm not twiddling my thumbs." Contact this columnist at (513) 705-2842 or rmccrabb@coxohio.com. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 4:48pm
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Nelson you most definitely have a problem with reading and comprehension for a gentleman that held a job with the city. Now I clearly asked 5 questions above and I also clearly stated that I did not know the answers to these questions, I further asked if anyone knew the answers. I made no argument for or against the purchase I simply asked some questions. I also made no baseless criticisms.
Once again you and Vivian have let your hatred of the city cloud you response and you have failed to make any attempt to answer the above questions if you even know the answer to those questions.
You need to take a break Nelson you are on a one man crusade which is not going well for you and your constant hatred for the city and anyone that works their and anyone who questions your posts or asks questions about your posts is not good for your health, either mentally or physically.
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 10 2010 at 8:13pm
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Responses to Pacman's "Questions":
1) Since the city has basically been declared a poverty zone, with 54% of the population living is it below the median income, is it illegal to buy these homes? No, it's not illegal. It does appear to be an extravagant waste of HUD funds though. There are many less costly and viable purchase/rehabilitation options that weren't/aren't being considered by City staff?
2) Is it wise to continue to buy houses in "the Hood" as someone called it when we have 2000-3000 waiting to be torn down? Provide factual information that the City ever purchased in "the Hood" houses. Where in the world did this theory come from? It certainly didn't happen on my watch!
3) What is the failure rate of the houses "in the Hood" that have been bought previously, how many are in foreclosure or been taken back by the city or however it works? See response to Question 2.
4) Are not people that can afford the above houses more likely to be able to make the payments? Yes. This is because HUD raised household income eligibility from 80% to 120% of Area Median Income.
5) Why were the above houses purchased? Ask Doug. Who benefits from the 10 large expenditures? The City's grant application called for 20 purchase/rehabilitation/resale projects. Why only 10 now?
I have more questions but that will suffice for now. I do not know the answers to the above questions does anyone, especially those making accusations?
Pacman, data provided is from the City's website. How sad some need to distort the posts of others?
The primary issue is the excessive and wasteful expenditure of HUD Neighborhood Stabilization funds!
I still have faith that civic-minded Middletonians are outraged when Federal Tax Dollars are wasted.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 7:42am
| Looking at the money paid to purchase and rehab these homes and looking at the location of these homes, these homes are overpriced by 25-50%. There is no way that homes in these areas are going to sell for the prices indicated by this list. What is the purpose of this exercise in financial waste and who is the fool who thinks these homes will sell at that price in that location? |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 7:56am
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Apperently the city did purchase houses "in the hood" because several got demolished.
When one thinks of HUD and HUD funds one tends to think that money will be well spent on helping the "poorer" neighborhoods. But it seems thats not the plan at all. I see houses being demo'd in poor areas while,as the list shows,houses at over $100,000 are getting make-overs.
Maybe the city would be better off just putting up a wall around the poor areas and just pretend they don't exist. Then they can rehab each others $250,000 homes and put in swimming pools and gardens for sipping tea in the afternoon and hosting grand gala's in the evening's. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 8:20am
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Thanks..for..your..insight..VietVet..and..Hermes.
The..City..can..and..has..demolished..derelict..homes..without..purchasing..them.
State..law..permits..municipalities..to..demolish..dangerous..and..blighting..private..properties.
The..messages..that..I..tried..to..convey..about..NSP..funds..are:
1)..there..are..numerous..vacant..foreclosed..houses..available..for..$60,000..to..$90,000;
2)..many..of..these..residential..properties..need..minor..to..modest..rehabilitation;
3)..nearly..two..years..after..the..fact..why..has..less..than..50%..of..NSP..funds..been..spent..by..the..City;
4)..what..prompted..City..staff..to..purchase..only..10..instead..of..20..houses..stated..in..the..HUD..grant;
5)..how..did..demolishing..two..former..downtown..commercial..structures..combat..foreclosure..impact;
6)..the..$300,000..spent..in..the..1300..block..of..Central..Avenue..could..have..demolished..40..houses;
7)..there..are..some..fairly..stable..portions..of..Ward..2..that..could..have..used..these..funds;
8)..not..all..of..Ward..2..is..ready..for..the..wrecking..ball;
9)..as..a..taxpayer..I'm..deeply..offended..when..City..staff..so..cavalierly..wastes..our..tax..dollars.
Those..are..the..pertinent..questions..that..Pacman..might..have..addressed.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 3:59pm
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I think some of you need to go back and read the NSP Draft Proposal at http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/nsp/nsp_draft.pdf - http://www.cityofmiddletown.org/nsp/nsp_draft.pdf
It clearly states what the funds can be used for, it has a budget breakdown of where the money will be spent and it was written two years ago:
$214,437 = Administration $960,000 = Acquisition and Rehab ( < 120% LMMI)
$536,095 = Acquisition and Rehab ( < 50% LMI)
$433,847 = Demolition of Blighted Properties
__________________________
Total = $2,144,379
The Largest amount listed above is to be spent on buying and rehabbing houses for people that make up to 120% of the area median income which is about $70-75k+/- I think. Now if that is your target market you are not going to buy houses in Sherman and try to sell them to a family making $75K.
Another note is that the funds are to be or can be used citywide due to the fact the city is now considered a Poverty zone, correct term I don't know what it is.
All of the houses listed in the first post here fall into the high risk area by census track and by HUD's rating of areas of high risk of foreclosure, etc. Every house is in an area rated as 10 by HUD which is the highest risk factor.
As far as I can ascertain the funds are being spent according to the NSP proposal written 2 years ago. Now I am by no means an expert at dealing with HUD. But if you read the proposal it seems pretty cut and dry.
And Nelson as far as your comment;
"Those..are..the..pertinent..questions..that..Pacman..might..have..addressed."
One major mistake you make when you post about HUD is you assume everyone is an expert on HUD rules and regs. and how to deal with HUD. Most of your posts quoting HUD regs. and items most likely goes over everyone's head who hasn't dealt with HUD most of their lives. I am not a HUD expert, I don't know what is available in the 2nd Ward, I am not a Real estate expert so guessing at rehab costs is not my game and so on. |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 4:27pm
| Pac- I wouldn't necessarily consider Gage in a high risk area as HUD believes. Gage has some nice homes around this particular one. Heck, it's right next door to MUM. I wouldn't necessarily call Red Bud a "high risk" area either. The area around the Seniors Center isn't that bad. The rest... Arlington, Elmo, Yankee, Malvern.....yes, they have pockets where there are issues. Wonder how HUD chose Gage as meeting this criteria?? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 5:28pm
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According to City-Data.com, the estimated median household income in Middletown in 2008: $39,552 (it was $36,215 in 2000, according to US Census figures.)
PS: I am NOT attempting to insert myself into this particular disagreement!! I just thought that the median income figure mentioned somewhere above was a little high.
NOTE to Mtown: Yes, I do understand the difference between "median" and "average". Please do not waste your time with another boring lecture. Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Middletown-Ohio.html#ixzz125VE6CMA - http://www.city-data.com/city/Middletown-Ohio.html#ixzz125VE6CMA ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Oct 11 2010 at 7:20pm
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Vet the risk is for the amount or number of Foreclosures not whether the House is in a Poverty area. The funds are to buy foreclosed or abandoned houses and rehab and sell them to families to stabilize the area. Also it is HUD that has made the determination that these areas are at risk, not me or the city.
Mike the average median income for the Cinci Metro area as set by HUD is about $69500.00. Middletown falls with in the Cinci MSA area. So at 120% of median income that would be $83400.00 and at 50% of median income that would be about $34750.00 for a family. I saw several charts on the HUD site with Median incomes ranging from $63400-69500 for the Cinci area, it all depends on which one HUD uses, I used the one at the link below.
http://www.huduser.org/portal/datasets/il/il10/index.html - http://www.huduser.org/portal/datasets/il/il10/index.html
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 1:49am
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The average income of City of
Renaissance area average income $57,240. Sunset/Park Place area average income $51,976 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 2:03am
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Also it is HUD that has made the determination that these areas are at risk, not me or the city...Pacman
Pacman,
This report was not done by HUD it was complied at the request of the City Acknowledgements This report was developed by Wayne Freeman Ph.D., Isaac Heard AICP, and Patricia Crawford. Disclaimer Training & Development Associates, Inc., Freeman Consulting, Inc. - A TDA Company - and their subcontractors make no guarantees, warranties, or assurances of any kind, express or implied, with respect to such information, (including any information on linked sites) and including, but not limited to, accuracy of the information or its completeness, timeliness, usefulness, adequacy, continued availability, or ownership. Purpose of Study The purpose of this report is to assemble available neighborhood-level data that can be used to inform local policy change and action. Specifically, thirty-eight neighborhoods in the City of Middletown, OH were analyzed using neighborhood indicators that were identified as important measures of neighborhood health. Several of these measures were used to develop scores related to alternative strategies for investment of public funds; neighborhood scores for demolition, rehabilitation, redevelopment, homebuyer, code enforcement and crime prevention were developed. Based on these scores, specific investment strategies are suggested for further consideration. Neighborhood Indicators The following indicators were used to evaluate each neighborhood. 1. Population = total population count 2. Youth population = individuals under the age of 20 years 3. Elderly population = individuals over the age of 65 years 4. Number of housing units = total housing unit count 5. Area = in acres 6. % owner occupied = owner occupied as a percentage of total housing units 7. Average household size = number of persons per household 8. Crime = number of crimes reported 9. Density = population per acre 10. % substandard = % of housing units without complete kitchen and/or plumbing facilities 11. % low income = % of households with income below median household income of $39,600 12. % vacant units = % housing units vacant 13. TOADS = number of temporarily obsolete, abandoned or derelict structures 14. Foreclosure risk = HUD calculated ranking (1 to 10) of the risk that a neighborhood has for foreclosed or abandoned homes |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 3:21am
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 8:28am
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Two straight-forward, easy-to-answer Federal Tax Dollars questions for you Pacman:
1) Are you satisfied with the City's administration and priorities for $2.144,000 of NSP funds?
2) Do you feel that these Federal Tax Dollars are being utilized wisely and cost-effectively?
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Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 6:31pm
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Pacman -
I hope that you'll be sharing your heartfelt responses to these two questions very soon.
We're curious to know something tangible about your opinions of the City's NSP-funded activities.
We know how diligent that you are in commenting on the posts of Miss Vivian, myself, etc.
Since recently answering your five questions, I knew that I count on you to reciprocate.
Let us hear from you shortly.
Nelson Self & Vivian Moon
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Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 9:10pm
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Oh Nelson, for the love of God, get off this endless, painful, confusing, hopeless, hapless topic. As some have stated before, we don't understand this NSP stuff. It doesn't impact us as directly as the city income tax, levy taxes, etc. And we don't know what to do about it anyway. With all your experience, if you can't provide proof of wrongdoing to some insider, government watchdog, Prosecutor, John Stossel, Bill O'Reilly, etc etc then WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT IT!!!
I'm beginning to think you eat, sleep and dream this stuff.
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Posted By: rngrmed
Date Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 11:22pm
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Mike_Presta wrote:Posted By: Nelson...Himself
Date Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 12:43am
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Neil Barille --
Or is it Clarabell, Phineas T. Bluster or even Judy Doody?
How interesting for a culprit in the City's Section 8 explosion to offer a Peanut Gallery post.
What say you about the apparent waste of valuable NSP dollars in combating foreclosures?
Do you condone low-impact projects and squandering of Taxpayer hard-earned dollars?
Say it 'aint so Neil, Clarabell, Phineas T. or Judy!
P.S. Paraphrasing the late comedian Stan Laurel, "You've made a fine mess in Middletown!"
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 11:45am
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Mr Self |
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 5:57pm
| Nelson Himself is it true you were fired from your position withthe City or were you laid off? |
Posted By: Neil Barille
Date Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 6:05pm
| No, I'm not employed by the city. I'm just tired of your obsession with a topic that most of us care little about. How do I know? How many other people post on here about NSP? Virtually none! |
Posted By: Mtown
Date Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 6:21pm
| Seems like Nelson Himself has an ace to grind |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 6:34pm
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nelson buddy--our city only fires and removes people that intimidate them.
If you were simply incompetent, you would be there, protected to keep your loyalty.
Anyone ?ing their bs and chicanery is out the door asap
You will see that soon with next year's board commission appointments due to the convenient 4-3 Council split.
The new ability to freeze out desiring locals for out-of-towner experts at shilling for the puppetmasters will find favor.
These trolls are only here to disrupt and distract from exposing the municipal bad decisions and outright insider favoritism. They offer nothing else, and their method of taunting and degradation is only harming their situation. .
hey mtown--help me out in that Roosevelt Schol site forum!
Neil--still have that big black dog? Same wife?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9-HGHT1Pk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9-HGHT1Pk
Why don't u2 try attending the Doc Watson show at Finkleman this Saturday? And definitely don't miss TROMBONE SHORTY on Nov.13, Chris Thile on Jan.23, Keb Mo on Feb.5, Arlo Guthrie on March 13, and maybe even Randy Newman or Jerry Douglas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Kvv522yjA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Kvv522yjA
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Date Posted: Nov 14 2010 at 9:17pm
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