Keeping The Ward System
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2107
Printed Date: Apr 17 2025 at 5:14pm
Topic: Keeping The Ward System
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Subject: Keeping The Ward System
Date Posted: Oct 13 2009 at 8:37am
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Someone questioned my stance on the Charter Commision recommendation to remove the ward system as being hypocritical. The night the Charter Commision was giving its recommendation I said the following:
"When it came to the decision to reduce the number of council seats, it became quite clear the agenda was to get rid of the wards and get four at-large seats and a mayor. We didn't stand a chance. Well, I didn't want to throw my vote away so I get in two points. First, I got assurance from Les Landen that if the recommendation was adopted it couldn't go into effect for four years. That would give the city time to adjust to it if it happened. Secondly, I got assurance from Les Landen that if the recommendation went to council and it was placed on the referendum that it would have a NO box so the citizens could vote it down. With those two qualifiers I voted for it because it was the best and only strategy to get it defeated. The ward council members are not going to vote for it to go on the ballot. They would be giving up their jobs and they would be telling their constituents, "You don’t need special representation and you don’t need us.". They're not going to do that. You Ward council members also make up a majority of council. Also, in the event that council did approve putting it on the ballot my belief is that the citizens would overwhelmingly vote it down. So, I wanted the recommendation to go to council in its weakest form. What would happen if it did succeed would be that we would end up with four wealthy council people from the third ward and there goes real representation of all of our citizens." I am absolutely opposed to eliminating the ward system at this time. We don't have the confidence and trust of the City Council to reduce and change the system now. If we did I would be in favor of eliminating the two at-large seats and have the four ward seats and one Mayor seat, in the interest of having a more streamlined and efficent government with proper representation.
Paul Nagy |
Replies:
Posted By: Murdock
Date Posted: Oct 14 2009 at 9:43pm
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What has the Ward system done for the City of Middletown?????
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!
VOTE THE WARD SYSTEM OUT.......BRING BACK GOOD, COMMON SENSE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 12:58am
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Ms./Mr. Murdock:
With all due respect, some say that the facts all point towards the contrary, sir/ma'am!
Please re-watch Mr. Armbruster's and Mr. Marconi's remarks in the two recent forums as they point out ALL THE GOOD that they believe has been accomplished during their watch!! This all happened with SEVEN council members including FOUR WARD council members!!!
What is difficult to understand is how Mr. Armbruster and Mr. Marconi can be AGAINST the WARD SYSTEM which they currently claim has worked so well for Middletown and is the ONLY thing that allowed them to be elected in the first place!!
Perhaps you could shed some light on that??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 1:09am
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Then again, Four at-large members only would make council "easier to control" and that IS one of the stated goals of MOVING MIDDLETOWN FOWARD, according to the flyers found in the CITY literature rack in the CITY MANAGER's office!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 7:00am
Yea, let the Middletown Elite (self appointed) use their superior Intelligence to run the City the RIGHT way("RIGHT way" means the way that increases their Personal wealth!). |
Murdock wrote:Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 7:34am
Without yelling and screaming. 
What has the Ward system done for the City of Middletown?
Please spare us the, "gives everyone representation" as this is very debatable as to its benefit.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 9:51am
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Wasteful:
Just watch either of the candidate forum replays, paying close attention to Mr, Arbruster and Mr. Marconi!!!
They both claim a myriad of accomplishments by council during their terms under the Ward system, and that they've made everything in Middletown just swell as ward councilmen, and "no one can say they haven't!" [Note: I may not have gotten this quote from Armbruster quite right, but it was something very close to that.]
As I mentioned above, the way they seem to see the ward system has succeeded these last four years, I simply cannot understand why they are now against it!
PS: Did I speak softly enough for you???
  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 10:45am
Yes Mike but you strained my aging eyes......
Yes they say that Mike, but we all know that Middletown is worse off now then we were just 5 years ago. Many on here rant about the Good Ole Boys running the show and we have the ward system and if we don't have the ward system the same people say the Good Ole Boys are gonna run the system. The question is what is going to change?
Marconi by his own words thinks, nothing is wrong in Middletown, that can't be fixed by what is right with Middletown.
 Now most of us know that is crap.I personally don't see where having wards has benefited the city in the last 10+ years.
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Posted By: Merrell Wood
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 11:27am
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Wasteful, I have to assume you were't at the Charter Committee meetings. The issue was brought up as a discussion of reducing the size of council and then the usual suspects, (Marconi's choices for the committee) wanted to know what the "Ward System" had done for them. It then quickly disgressed into a eliminate the ward system promotion. Landon then realized the question could not be placed on the ballot as two seperate issues. Conclusion...
If you suppot one change you also are voting yes for for the other. Very clever.
As to the 4-Ward candidates supporting an "At Large" system, it's an easy call because they will be finished with their second term when it goes into effect.
As to the 4-Ward system "creates conflect" That's bull. I have personally spoken with the majority of the current council and they claim that's not an issue at all, and would be happy to say it in public.
As to the issue that better government will come with 4 wisemen from atop the hill, The question is not about running the place better, it's about running the place better and at the same time representating all the people all the time.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Oct 15 2009 at 12:02pm
| Perhaps it really doesn't matter whether we have a ward system or an "at-large system- if the quality and intentions of the councilperson in each ward is to truely represent the people, they will make it a priority to "mingle" with the people in the form of ward meetings, perhaps a ward newsletter, a ward questionaire, and any other means to communicate with the people to let them know that they care, are there for them to help solve their problems and as an internal voice within the city system of operation. I believe the effort made by a councilperson toward representing the people who live in their area, trumps any ward/at-large system that the councilperson is forced to work within. All this " good/bad representation" in a ward system or at-large is mute if the council people are doing their job correctly, isn't it? Isn't this ward/at-large conflict about finding the best way to represent the people? So the focus is really about the performance of the current/past council members. If we had good people on council, perhaps we may never have had this issue. 10/4? |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 3:02am
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Merrell States:
"As to the 4-Ward system "creates conflect" That's bull. I have personally spoken with the majority of the current council and they claim that's not an issue at all, and would be happy to say it in public."
From the Middletown Journal 10-16-09:
"I have seen firsthand how the ward system has divided the council and been very divisive on a number of issues, when we should have been concentrating on the best action for the entire city.
The ward system has polarized and introduced politics into issues which should be considered (for) what is the best action for all the citizens of the city." Tony Marconi, Middletown City Council |
Posted By: Merrell Wood
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 7:43am
| Wasteful. I'm glad to see you agree with the majority of my opinions. Guess I missed Tony. What's your name again? |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 8:06am
| Merrell whether I agree or not is not the point. There are always two sides to every issue. My point is that I don't see where the Ward System has been beneficial to the city overall over the last 10-15 years. I would say the City has decline in the last 5 years or so. So maybe it is time for a change. Who am I a concerned citizen of Middletown. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 8:58am
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The decline of Middletown in recent years has nothing to do with the Ward System however it has everything to do with the employment of Mr. Marty Kohler |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 9:05am
Vivian....Oh, how right you are!!! 
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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 9:16am
| Vivian it takes two to tango and Council has gone right along with the program as outlined by Kohler and others. |
Posted By: Paul Nagy
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 9:53am
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In reply to the question, "What has the Ward system done for the city of Middletown".
1. It has given focus to areas that have been neglected far too long.
2. It has given us new, effective voices and leaders such as Sonny Hill, Anita Scott Jones and a host of others in behalf of low to moderate income citizens.
3. It has been an obvious check and balance against abuse of funding going to special interests projects.
4. It is typical of governments that have worked successfully in our nation such as states,counties,municipalities, townships and wards.
5. It helps to get more citizens involved in city matters.
6. It prevents special interest groups from always having control of power and money.
7. It assists in keeping us aware of problems in areas that might otherwise be overlooked
cf. The canal
8. It helps to unite the city within and beyond the ward.
9. It has given us more representation. If its good enough for the ward its good enough for the city. If its good enough for the city its good enough for the ward.
10. It has worked in cities everywhere and it has worked in Middletown for twenty years.
The current attempt to remove the wards is to prevent all of these good things from continuing so that less people can have more power. Keep the ward system!
Paul Nagy
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Posted By: Merrell Wood
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 10:24am
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Paul, I just finished a column that reflects pretty much of what you just wrote. Have you been reading my mind or mine yours? I completely agree and I hope you will loudly promote it throughout the remaining days of your campaign.
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Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 10:29am
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from my old stomping grounds: http://www.dailytargum.com/opinions/ward-system-proven-to-fail-in-nj-urban-centers-1.2000781 - Ward System Proven to Fail in Urban Centers in NJ |
Posted By: Merrell Wood
Date Posted: Oct 16 2009 at 11:42am
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The ward system has not failed. Their are too many variables to blame it alone. The ward system is the most effective way to represent all the citizens all the time. Our council representatives use that imput to help make the most informed decisions on issues important to us all. Council serves from the bottom up while the the Manager serves from to top down. The manager runs the city and is responsible to bring before council her's and staff's recommendation for any appropriate legislative action to be takenn. Council hired the manager and may remove her at any time if their not happy with her performance. The manager represents the opinion of the city and council members should represent the opinion of the citizens they serve.
The ward system does not create any conflect not found in the normal process of give and take represented in a democratic system. The only way that a responsible and open debate is not part of the normal democratic process is when as system of all at-large representatives have already agreed on a specific issue over lunch or at their neighborhood block party.
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