Budgetary Cuts- the Inevitable
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1917
Printed Date: Nov 22 2024 at 11:19pm
Topic: Budgetary Cuts- the Inevitable
Posted By: Gary Barge
Subject: Budgetary Cuts- the Inevitable
Date Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 12:32pm
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Unfortunately we are faced with a horrific downsizing of our city depts. I hate to say "I told you so" but here we go. When I was running for the at-large seat in 07 a question was asked of the candidates "what would you do to shore up the budget concerns?" My answer-To downsize and to do away with nonessential departments. They asked me to elaborate. Reply-That our property taxes go to Hamilton and that Hamilton already has the authority to do our Building Inspection, Permit Inspections and Health Inspections. By reducing these departments we would not be left without services since they are already provided by our Butler County offices. These departments were formed by our city government which comes directly out of our general fund. This would have been a great savings since 07. Also if you check out my q&a for candidates you will see that I made a recommendation in Dec 08 in my letter to the editor which if followed would have reduced our spending to more moderate levels. But in short we were told there was going to be a 1.1% increase in taxable revenues that didn't come to fruition. I would venture to say that if these recommendation/my ideas would have been followed we would not be in the 2.2 million dollar defecit facing us now. The 2.2 million dollar defecit is the same number that was being used when we voted in the safety levy. The restucturing and renaming of departments has gotten us nowhere. Folks, it is time to promote common sense and yes I am campaigning. Just look at the state our city is in. I for one am not going to sit idly by while we get drug down a nasty canal. OOPS I mean down the drain. So get out and vote, vote, vote. Here are the candidates that can get it done: of course myself 1st Ward, John Soppanish 2nd Ward, Joshua Laubach 3rd Ward, and Paul Nagy 4th Ward.
Gary Barge
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Replies:
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 3:01pm
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Gary sorry but it is no more horrific than what has happened in the private sector. As has been discussed on here many times the way Ohio handles Public Safety Unions is detrimental to the well being of any city.
You can not hand out 3 year contracts with 3-4% a year raises in times like these not knowing where the money is going to come from or if it is even going to be there. You can not have Health Insurance Benefits such as the city has where the employees pay only 7% of the premium. Also other benefits which are straining the city we live in. It is financial suicide in a city the shape Middletown is in. Personally I will vote for no more levies or renewals for the city until they get their act together and then it will have to be for one hell of a good reason, if that means more layoffs so be it.
Sorry but the Unions have made their bed now they can lie in it and take the layoffs. Rather than have some foresight and look ahead it is just give me more and more oh well........that is the way it goes.
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Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 4:28pm
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Wasteful - sounds like you should be mad at the city management not the unions, as the management is the ones that allowed the contracts as the are today.
Personally I think if you are asking anyone to take a paycut you should be willing to take it yourself. Some of the union workers do not make 60k and above. If the individuals that make less take at 5-10% paycut that really hurts their standard of living - possibly their house payment or car payment that they already have. If you have to have paycuts all shoudl take them not just the unions, but the office staff at the city building as well. If this is considered then possibly we would not need high paycuts to just certain areas. But I would be willing to be good money that the city manager is not taking a cut.
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Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 5:25pm
| Bobbie you need to look into how the Union Contracts work in Ohio as far as Public Safety is concerned. The city has little choice but to capitulate to what the unions want. Public Safety makes up the bulk of the General Fund almost if not 70% I believe. |
Posted By: Rail Fan
Date Posted: Sep 10 2009 at 7:10pm
| Please ask Judy Gilleland.......................What are the real reasons that Skip Batten and Debbi Fish are likely to lose their jobs in the Community Revitalization Department at the end of the year? It's unlikely that the real facts will ever be known. Maybe you can help shed some light Doug? Is it possible that two other staff members will be transferred to the positions now held by Skip and Debbi? |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: Sep 11 2009 at 7:15am
| Wasteful - some of these contracts were negotiated last year - management new at that time what was happening with the budget. If they didn't they should not be in management. They did not have to agree with what the union asked for - remember a few years ago AK and the year long lock out. My issue is upper management always wants cuts from staff - but does not look at themselves to take cuts as well. It needs to be across the board. |
Posted By: wasteful
Date Posted: Sep 11 2009 at 8:06am
| Bobbie like I said research how Public Safety Union contracts work in Ohio. There is a little matter called conciliation which the city loses when it is used almost everytime. |
Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Sep 11 2009 at 9:21am
With all due respect, how can you say that? Do you even understand the Process. I think you simply are one of those People who automatically think any process that does not give the wanted result is faulty. When you lose at Poker do you call the other Players "Cheats"? Bobbie, the point Wastman is making, is that Public Safety People are unable to strike, for good reason,and in place of striking the Contract Issue goes to binding arbitration which is referred to as "Conciliation". To suggest that an arbiter is biased to the benefit of Labor would be very foolish, as most Unions would probably say that they lose more than win. A lot of Rank and File Unions members actually somewhat distrust the process as they see the Companies win so often that they assume Big Money is greasing some Palms. I don't believe such things,as the AAA (American Arbitration Association) seems to be an honest bunch. Unfortunately some people are never satisfied until Labor works for nothing. Thus, Bobbie's point about Management and Labor contracts is very valid. |
wasteful wrote:Posted By: Murdock
Date Posted: Sep 17 2009 at 1:29pm
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What Mr. Barge is talking about is PRIVATIZATION of city services.......Im only assuming that when he was a union president PRIVATIZATION was considered taboo!?!? So as a union man, you now support it?? Not the answer Mr. Barge, this council as well as others have looked at this issue and its a non-starter. The answer to our budget problems is revenue....JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!!!!
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 17 2009 at 2:24pm
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I agree Murdock- Jobs are the answer to our budget problems as it relates to revenue. That being said, why don't we ever hear of any activity by the econ.dev. department and their plan to bring new jobs into this town? Why is Council/Gilleland relying on revenue from the federal government through town destroying programs like Section 8 instead of procuring jobs like most surrounding communities? Is this city government incapable of developing revenue like other cities? (Or, are they just stubbornly refusing to?) Are they not smart enough to figure it out or is it easier to ask the feds to provide the money by taking on programs no respectable town would tackle?
The way I read it is that Mr. Barge wants some city services to be transfered/taken over by the Hamilton city government to reduce cost for Middletown. This is not privatization of services--- this is transferring the services to another government and having that government entity take on the responsibility for providing the services. Perhaps I read the meaning of his post incorrectly. |
Posted By: Murdock
Date Posted: Sep 17 2009 at 2:48pm
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VietVet- Mr. Barge either mispoke or he doesnt know what he's talking about. The City of Hamilton wouldnt be the ones taking on any of our city services, it woiuld be Butler County doing so. Privatizing the Health Department has been explored as have other departments. Regardless, it would be the County doing it, not a municipality.
Nationwide cities like ours are dealing with stunted or stagnet growth. We are a steel town/paper town. Unfortuneatly while Bill Becker was asleep at the wheel as our city manager, AK Headquarters relocated and we lost most of the paper industry. Taking more money from the feds is what we're doing....I would expect to see more street improvements throughout the city next year as a result. Either way, we need to bring in more high-tech, high paying jobs- most of which will likely be seen at the I75 corridor.
As far as section 8 goes....I dont know what to say to you about that other than Im glad we have FINALLY looked at it and taken steps to rectify the problem.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 17 2009 at 3:49pm
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Murdock- I've been here since 1948. In the 80's, LONG before this "stunted or stagnet growth", I proposed (in a letter to Council) to Bill Donham and the rest of Council, that they become more diversified and get away from this "steel/paper industry" mentality and start developing alternative industries and technology avenues to absorb the loses of these old industries. Here it is 2009, and this Council (and all that preceded it) failed to act on the suggestion. It's not like Middletown just realized their plight with old school industry. Rather, Middletown's leaders since the 80's, have failed to recognize AND ACT on what was the obvious thing to do back then. Now, because of the procrastination, it is almost too late to begin and expect success within a reasonable time. New high tech/decent paying jobs should be a high "#1" priority for this town and it is not. Very frustrating.
Section 8- Nothing more to say except PREVIOUS COUNCILS WERE INEPT AND ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL on this one. We have over twice what we should have. Still don't understand why the city leaders can't say "come and get the excess and distribute it out to the other Butler County cities that don't have their fair share". Why are we locked into keeping this overabundance of Section 8? It is KILLING this town. IMO, this oversight that created more Section 8 than what we are suppose to have is serious enough to dismiss city leaders and admin. that were responsible for this fiasco. It needs to be greatly reduced for the health of the city. We don't need added "problem children" in this community. Barge and Hamilton taking over some of Middletown's services. Don't know. Maybe Mr. Barge didn't mean the actual City of Hamilton but rather the county offices that are located in Hamilton. You say that privatization has been explored as to cost versus service provided? ANd how did that breakout? You give indications, based on your presentation, that you are a member of the Middletown city leadership in some capacity. Is that a fair assumption? |
Posted By: Murdock
Date Posted: Sep 17 2009 at 4:11pm
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VietVet- I think past councils/commissions failed to act because they assumed the gravy train would never stop and that we'd keep pumping out steel and producing paper forever and ever!!!
No, Im not a member of city leadership in any capacity. Im just a very well informed citizen, with knowledge of the issues, our city's history and I have some common sense.
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Posted By: tootie
Date Posted: Sep 18 2009 at 10:42pm
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Well I guess no one knew that Hamilton was in Butler Co. Thanks for clearing that up!!!!! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 19 2009 at 7:27am
| What? |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 19 2009 at 7:29am
What? |
Posted By: Rail Fan
Date Posted: Sep 19 2009 at 8:01am
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One year ago two City Council members confidentially told me they privately lamented supporting the hiring of the current City Manager. A third member of this faction did not express these sentiments directly to me, but seemed supportive of this goal. It was also at this time that these elected officials were strategizing how to secure the support of a fourth City Council member to take matters into their hands. Now, all is well at City Hall as evidenced by the hollow praising of city management that we all view twice monthly at City Council meetings.
This is HYPOCRISY at its' very, very worst. Vote for Barge, Soppanish, Nagy and Laubach in November! These four candidates represent the only opportunity for practical decision making, the end of back door deals, the end of substantial political influence that the MMF imposes on us, etc.!
Nelson Self
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Posted By: Murdock
Date Posted: Sep 19 2009 at 3:38pm
Who are the two members? You refer to the "two above noted City Council members," yet fail to say who they are.....tell us!
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Posted By: Rail Fan
Date Posted: Sep 19 2009 at 7:42pm
| Could it be that one is your man?? Vote for Gary Barge in November!! Vote for Joshua Laubach in November!! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Sep 20 2009 at 8:22am
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Uhh- "One year ago two City Council members CONFIDENTIALLY told me....."
"Who were the two members?" "You refer to "the two above noted councilmembers", yet fail to say who they are".... "tell us" CONFIDENTIALLY Hey Rail Fan- If they could hire her, they can fire her. Wonder why they changed their minds? Think the MMF'ers told these council people she would stay and to drop the pursuit of removing her? |
Posted By: Rail Fan
Date Posted: Sep 20 2009 at 9:57am
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When thinking of the two City Council members that I mentioned, it reminds me of:
1) the offbeat country music group 'Asleep at the Wheel'
2) the frequent background chuckling of Ed McMahon on the "Tonight Show'
Oh, I am specifically refering to Ward 1 and Ward 2 incumbents by the way.
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Posted By: Rail Fan
Date Posted: Sep 20 2009 at 9:58am
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Ooops.....................
I meant to say Ward 1 and Ward 3.
Sorry!
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