Conversations With Council
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Council
Forum Description: Discuss individual members and council as a legislative body.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1494
Printed Date: Nov 22 2024 at 1:23pm
Topic: Conversations With Council
Posted By: randy
Subject: Conversations With Council
Date Posted: Jun 29 2009 at 9:37am
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At 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday June 30, 2009 at the Manchester Inn &
Conference Center at 1027 Manchester Ave in Middletown, City Council
Members James Armbruster from the First Ward and Leslie Ford from the
Second Ward will be joining together for a Conversation with Council -
a time for residents to bring their concerns to the table. Mr. Armbuster and Mrs. Ford are both running for reelection this
November. Armbuster may very well be representing the First Ward again
as there is no one opposing him at this time. Mrs. Ford will be running
against John P. Soppanish of 1110 Lafayette Ave and Andrew Smith Jr. of
601 Sixteenth Avenue. For The Entire Story Click Here ../view_news.asp?a=4450 - Middletown City council host Conversations with council June 30, 2009 |
Replies:
Posted By: MerrellWood
Date Posted: Jul 01 2009 at 11:02am
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The event was a waste of time. Huge room with a little more than a dozen citizen in attendence. No sound system. TVM was covered it and said they had to fight for any usable audio. First hour.... Charter members explaining to council why they recommed this and that. Few pointed questions from council ... lots of head nodding. No citizen participation allowed.
Second hour.... Citizens could give council their opinions with no responce required.
Becker, Marconie and Armbruster said NOTHING the entire evening. Anita Scott was engaged and the only one who commented on almost every issues...including questions from the audience. Hard to think Council members would take any citizens comments to heart. Most questions came from the usual suspects they don't consider the average citizen.Need to call your rep. directly if you want to have any influence at all....
At least there was no requirement to stand behind some tiny podium to speak to their council members seated at their dias on high.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 01 2009 at 11:24am
| Well Merrell it is like we have been saying time to vote out Council. NO RESPONE WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ALL ABOUT? I thought it was called Conversation with Council. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 01 2009 at 11:43am
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Merrell the next time, if there is ever a next time, there is a Conversation with Council just have someone stand behind each Council person and pull their strings when you are expecting a response.
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Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Jul 01 2009 at 2:08pm
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That is why there was such low attendance. People such as myself have long ago learned that these functions are going to be controlled by Council to such a degree as to make them literally useless and only serve as PR with no descent of controversy allowed. Any pointed or "hard to ignore" questions will be answer by "we will get back to you". Of course they never do! |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jul 01 2009 at 9:25pm
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If the founding fathers of our beloved country were to be in attendance last night at the so-called NON-Conversation with Ward 1 and 2 City Council members, they would be ashamed.
Controlled Governance best describes the cast of GILLELAND's ISLAND!
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 6:45am
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 6:51am
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And for those of us who missed, which would be 99.99% of the population, this excellent display of our Local Government not in Action it is on TVMiddletown tonight:
"Conversation with Council, First and Second Wards, The Manchester Inn, June 30, 2009,’" June 11, 2009," 8 p.m. and 12:30 a.m.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 7:23am
Thanks, pac. I'll watch the one at 8. Got to see Larry Becker, Moe Marconi and Curly Armbruster just a sittin' with that "deer in the headlights" look on their faces. Of course, Armbruster is to be somewhat excused from this behavior as he hasn't had a clue in years and doesn't appear to know what county he's in most of the time. Silently pleading the 5th so as not to be incriminated, I guess. Guess they just "weren't set up to answer questions at this time". No doubt graduates from the same communication school that Mulligan came from. 
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Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:04am
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A sampling of profound comments from Moe, Larry & Curly -
"I try to think but nothing happens"
"Soitenly" - Certainly
"Woob Woob Woob"
"Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk"
"I'm a victim of soicumstance" - circumstance
"Why you Numbskull"
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:48am
Conversation with Council Ed Richters blog:
/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/middletownnews/entries/2009/07/02/what_do_you_want_in_your_counc.html - What do you want in your council members?By 	/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/middletownnews/entries/2009/07/02/what_do_you_want_in_your_counc.html#postcomment - Ed Richter | Thursday, July 2, 2009, 07:16 AM At Tuesday’s Conversation with Council, one resident said Middletown City Council was becoming detached and unapproachable to residents. Councilwoman Anita Scott Jones disagreed and said she attends many community functions. She also noted that residents need to decide what kind of council they want before putting parameters on the council members. Jones raised an interesting question and one that voters will need to decide as candidates are working to get petitions signed in order to run for one of the four Ward seats that are open on council in November. So what are looking for in your council members? What are the key traits or characteristics they should have? What would you like this new class of council members to bring to the table? And for those who post comments often about city issues, have you thought about running for a council seat and if not, why? If you were elected, what would you differently and how would you address things if you happened to be on the short end of a vote? |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:51am
Personally I like this comparison especially when the Mayor Grins:
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:11am
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great comparisins with the Stooges and Laurel & Hardy.
Actually Mayor M did a good and fair job Tuesday eve.
This message board was very well represented.
I counted five members for sure, and you could count the remaining citizen participation on one hand and still hold a cup of coffee.
So--ya can't say that those here don't care and aren't involved.
Mr.Becker,Mr.Marconi and Mr.Armbruster should all resign now.
No real point in any of them continuing.
They SAY that they want to continue seving, though their actions speak clearly otherwise.
Vet--I wouldn't even bother watching this one.
Two + hours of nothing.
A waste of everyone's time imo.
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Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:12am
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Two points: 1. There was both a print story in yesterday's MJ as well as an online story, not just ER's blog. How do I know? I'm quoted in it. Well, my remarks are summarized, which means a great deal is missing. 2. Why the personal attacks on members of council and city government? Although admittedly, these are harmless comparisons and often give me a chuckle (more at the poster than the subject), it seems immature to me. I also wonder whether the people who post these remarks would make these comments in person to the people about which they speak. I suppose this is one of the protections offered by posting on a BLOG: you can type things you would probably never say to someone's face. |
Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:14am
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http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/residents-give-some-feedback-on-proposed-charter-changes-185093.html - http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/residents-give-some-feedback-on-proposed-charter-changes-185093.html |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:25am
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true Ms.Marianne
though the caricatures harmless and amazingly accurate.
Considering the public shots taken towards the message board participants publicly at Council sessions and in print by exactly the same mentioned culprits, turnabout is fair play.
no harm--no foul
Actually these comparisons say a lot about the demeanor of particular Council members also.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:28am
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Marianne I would have no trouble telling the Mayor he resembles Stan Laurel especially when he Grins, because he actually does. Hell I love Lauel & Hardy. You are right on Spider, Marconi has let loose more than once on us, and I harbor no ill feelings, just want to see the City move forward.
I stand corrected on the MJ article.
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Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:33am
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Steve, I don't remember any council members holding up a picture of someone from this BLOG and making comparisons. And, to follow your logic, as my mom would say to me (whenever I'd use the argument with her that so-and-so was doing it, so why shouldn't I), if someone else jumps off a bridge, does that mean you should do it too? Anyway, I just find that the remarks undermine any sort of value someone's post might have. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 9:39am
| OK everyone fall in line here no more sarcasm, no more joking around, no more making accurate comparisons between City Officials and other Famous people dead or alive.......and don't forget, "Middletown has a Bright Future".....damn I didn't mean to say that, I apologize for my back sliding in that sarcastic comment. |
Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 10:01am
Exactly why I use my real name. It gives one pause if one is not hidden by a Forum Nickname. |
Marianne wrote:Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 11:35am
Marianne, lighten up a little! Mercy! A little levity is in order once in a while. The references to the Three Stooges and to Laurel and Hardy aren't near as serious as the damage these people have caused the city. A few harmless, humorous comparisons will not cause permanent damage. If these grown ups can't handle a little public ribbing, they need not be in the public eye. They have volunteered to attract ridicule by running for PUBLIC office. They have added to that ridicule by doing a poor job at those jobs. Your sensitive side is showing and it is exhibiting a trait that is far too serious for this topic. ITS ALL MEANT AS A JOKE (except for my comments which are meant to be cruel and demeaning) 
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 12:33pm
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OK Dr.C
I apologize to EVERYONE for going along with the charicaturizations(?)
They are NOT funny at all!!!
And VERY inappropriate!!
Kinda like those portrayed are not very funny either(though Mr.Marconi surely yucked it up all night long at the Tuesday "forum").
This Council is definitely not funny at all.
Funny business maybe, and in no way do they resemble anyone else deceased or living.
Should I have this notarized?
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Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 1:32pm
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Steve et al. I anticipated your over-the-top responses, which made me doubt whether I should even bother to post, but my question was a legitimate one: if you want to promote reasoned discussion here, the approach being taken - exemplified by your responses to my asking a reasonable question - doesn't seem to promote it. I've seen it numerous times when someone questions one of a few posters, a few posters have over-the-top responses. VietVet, SpiderJohn, and PacMan, glad you are amusing yourselves with your responses to my post. Write what you wish, but I still think your posts when written in the tone above undermine any credibility you have. And Steve, no need for Dr. C., Marianne is fine. Thanks. |
Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 1:55pm
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So getting back to the actual topic of this thread, the conversation with council. I attended, and it was about what I expected. In other words, the Charter Review Committee didn't give me any more details than I could gather from the minutes, which are for more useful than the report. As I stated elsewhere, when the report is written by people who are not on the committee, I think that's a problem. The minutes, at least, give some sense of the members' opinions and level of understanding. About the issue on which I'm "quoted" in the MJ, I just don't believe there's enough "there" in terms of the discussion among Charter Review Committee members to justify suggesting a change. My point at the meeting was that changing the position to allow "open" competition would represent a fundamental change to the positions of Chief of Police and Chief of Fire and I wondered to what extent the committee considered this. Since I read the minutes, I could have answered my own question but I thought some might offer something new. No one did. As for the participation of Council, it didn't surprise me that everyone was there, nor did it surprise me that several members were silent. Does it bother me? No, not really, as I don't really know what I would have wanted any of them to say. Anita Scott Jones was the most active, but that doesn't mean she is thinking any more seriously about what the Charter Review Committee did. I spoke with a few folks after the meeting. Everyone I spoke with was respectful and listened attentively. July 7th should be an interesting meeting. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 3:09pm
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Yes, Doc--your wish shall be granted by this low-level participant.
Ironically, I spent the last two weeks watching dvds of the three stooges, Laurel & Hardy, Buster Keaton and the Keystone Kops with my grandchildren.
They loved every minute of it, and it made this whole bizarre thread hilarious and too difficult to pass.
Anyone in attendance Tues.that didn't see it as a waste of time?
Judge for yerself 2nite at 8pm and 12:30am
I advise watching the early run , otherwise you will find it hard to stay awake.
nyuk nyuk nyuk!!!
woo woo woo!!! |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:02pm
| OK Marianne- I'll answer your questions as you have requested. Why the personal attacks? Because these people running the city have helped destroy what was once a very nice town. "HARMLESS comparisons often give me a chuckle .... it seems immature to me"- So all critics who use levity are immature to you? Who are you to judge the maturity level of the posters on this site? Do you think that you are operating on a higher level than us mere mortals? Do you consider yourself an elitist, because you demonstrate all the symptoms. Making these comments to the people in person? You bet I would. I would go out of my way to insult them in a more radical way than using this method. Hell, it might create SOME response from them other than sheer silence as seen at Council meetings and this fiasco called "Conversation with Council". I've been down the road at 60 and have been in a war. Do you honestly think that I am intimidated or care what these "ruiners of a town" think of me. They have no credibility to begin with so I am dealing with people who beg to be verbally assaulted. If these people would behave correctly and perform better , perhaps we wouldn't be using anger in dealing with the travesty they are creating or to alleviate frustration, levity, in attacking them. Bottom line, Marianne. People who deserve no respect, get no respect. Too harsh for you? Sometimes it's needed. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:29pm
I have to agree with Marianne on this one. Stop insulting the Three Stooges and Laurel and Hardy!!!
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would, and I have!!!
See above! Also, please note that I post over my own name, both first and LAST so that there will be no doubt who is posting. But let me ask you this: Exactly WHEN would you suggest that we speak to council members "to their face"???? They take great pains to make sure that the common man is prevented from doing so. They have no good answers to many of the questions that many of us would ask, and several of them would be embarrassed if they had to debate some of the regulars of this board on an EVEN playing field!!
I might also mention that in the past, council members would wait until AFTER citizens sit down from making their comments to council before responding (often erroneously) so that citizens cannot rebut their responses. Isn't that nearly the same thing of which you are accusing us??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:29pm
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Pretty harsh, Vet
Actually, these people hardly ruined this town.
The blame goes WAY back and is spread VERY wide.
These poor souls are simply the group not able to fix it all now.
It's not like the best timing for them either.
We have blamed enough already.
Time to move past the blame and fix it.
We will work at it until we get it right.
This may not be the right group of people.
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 8:37pm
For example: When Ohio general laws are cited, and are clearly being violated, and council members respond: " 'All of the other cities do it that way.' so it must be okay for us to do it that way."
Is THAT the kind of logic of which you speak? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 10:23pm
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Spider- It was meant to be harsh and said with genuine feeling of anger. I'll address your comment of "these people hardly ruined this town" by saying that they, along with Gilleland, have turned this town into a combination ghost town/ welfare town and have lowered the status and class of the citizenry/town itself. And yes, they have had help from previous administrations. These "poor souls" you refer to, are some of the most vindictive, secretive, elitist , exclusionary individuals imaginable. We have all discussed these issues at length on this site and in the Journal. As long as they occupy a Council seat, I see no reason to change my posture as to who gets the blame. "Not the best timing for them either"- I am having a hard time feeling sorry for their situation Spider. Fix it, you say? Only way to fix it is through their removal from participating on Council. Hopefully, that will happen in November. I agree, we need to work to get it right by voting off the newer people who turn out to be clones of current members over time. "May not be the right people"- Haven't they proven they are not the right people?
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Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Jul 02 2009 at 11:12pm
| Spider is correct in that the blame goes deep and back many years, however just because you are not the one that shot the Victim in the head does not excuse you from ignoring the head injury and bandaging their ingrown toe nail instead. You still were/are incompetent in your assistance. |
Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 3:55am
| Irisner> Waite just a minute, who are you calling incompetent? The people who blog on here are only telling the truth. I have no problem telling any one of them what i have to say. In fact I have been told I talk to harsh to them, I just tell them in a way that will get there att. I believe in calling a spade a spade, if they cant take the heat get the HELL out of the kitchen. They knew what they were getting into when they ran for office. And also when they were sworn in they said they would work for the better of the city NOT destroy it. So could it be you are incompetent your self. And if you want my name just ask for it. |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 5:21am
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Impala SS -
Middletown needs more people like you who speak from the heart and don't sugar-coat important matters in order to be politically correct!
Keep up the good work and God bless you!
Nelson Self
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Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 8:18am
No, there are plenty of great critics who use levity. H. L. Mencken was one. Vladimir Nabokov, better known as an author, was another. I didn't judge the maturity level of anyone on this site; I remarked on the action, not the person. I'm not sure what you mean by "higher level." No, I don't. I'm not sure what you mean by "demonstrate all the symptoms." My comment regarding making these types of remarks in person was that they don't always seem to belong to the realm of civil discourse, and when I'm speaking with someone, I try to remain civil. Given my Italian/Irish background, that can be difficult sometimes. |
Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 8:20am
I'm not sure how you get that from what I was saying, but I would say no. I was referring to Steve's comment that seemed to essentially be "they make remarks about us, so we make remarks about them." |
Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 9:01am
Calm down friend. I obviously did not state the point clearly. I am/was trying to say that the incompetence of City Management and the damage they did, going back many years, did not excuse the current City Government from blame if they followed the same path of demise that has slowly destroyed this fine old City. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 9:44am
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Dr.C--I must disagree with you for singling me out on the topic of name-calling etc.
I don't believe that I have name-called any public officials by negative characterizations, and would appreciate you posting examples of me doing so.
Usually I get blasted for "flip-flopping and waffling" whenever I defend these officials as simply being human and not the villians as portrayed by many. I somewhat know these people(as well as most posting here), and realize their difficult position. They are part-time players trying to accomplish a more than full-time slate of issues. And the arrangemnent simply isn't working.
I personally deal with them in a positive tone, and realize that the only way to really move forward is by tearing down the self-imposed wall of separation. We must become more civil in our tone, comments and ?ing. "They" must become more open and available to promptly and honestly address citizens' valid concerns.
Otherwise, we NICELY but FIRMLY AND DECISIVELY remove them from their positions. I am not excited about the new slate of candidates , however I will vote and support the newcomers in order to change the face/attitude of our elected officials until we get more suitable representation.
I have become way too obsessed with this site, and need to walk away for a while.
Self-importance is addicting and contagious.
I have said enough about many things and about nothing.
In finality--any opinions or thoughts on the broadcast of the "Coversation" from Tuesday evening?
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Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 10:27am
Steve, not sure what you're referring to here. I was commenting on this earlier post by you : "Considering the public shots taken towards the message board
participants publicly at Council sessions and in print by exactly the
same mentioned culprits, turnabout is fair play.
no harm--no foul".
I mentioned you and a few others by name, because you had responded to my post. If that's "singling you out for name-calling," well, I must have missed that. |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 11:16am
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Marianne -
When I moved here from Hot Springs, Arkansas in late 2006 to begin work as Community Development Administrator for the City of Middletown, I had no idea about the massive waste of HUD funds and mismanagement that took place before me.
I worked tirelessly to promote "true citizen participation" as evidenced by the significant involvement of real estate professionals, mortgage bankers and brokers, plus target area neighborhood residents.
Together, we took some bold steps to correct past abuses and to set in place reforms so that the City of Middletown would be a responsible steward of the taxpayers funds.
All of this came to a grinding halt about one year ago as certain senior City staff felt that it was not necessary for true citizen oversight and for government to be open and accountable.
So many things have been swept "under the rug" by these in charge. Also, three members of the City Council are very well aware of these problems and remain silent. This is also true of our local print media.
The past year has been a very difficult time for me professionally and financially. However, I feel compelled to bring problems and issues to the light of day as best as I am able.
In reading this, I do hope that you will understand my frustration and disgust with our current system of governance. There's much that the public needs to know and, those who failed to perform in their jobs need to be held accountable.
Nelson Self
P.S. I now understand that an effort is underway for those "on the hot seat" to discredit me. I am willing to face whatever trash that they may throw my way.
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Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 5:24pm
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Pacman -
As you requested, I went to the City of Middletown's website in order to view their proposed HUD Neighborhood Stabilization Progra (NSP) grant application. Like two other active participants in MiddletownUSS, I also was unable to open the PDF file.
I did discover that the amount of the grant application that will be presented this coming Tuesday night will be in excess of $26 million.
If anyone can open the above-captioned NSP grant application file please send me a private message. I would dearly love to see where the next batch of HUD "funny money" is going.
Nelson Self
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Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 6:05pm
| Irisner > I am sorry I got so upset, but Iam very ill and i hate the way they are tearing this city apart. We need people to stand together and say we have had enough of there wrong doing before it is to late. |
Posted By: lrisner
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 6:46pm
Here, Here! Best of Luck! |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 6:51pm
THAT'S THE VIET VET I KNOW!!!!
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Posted By: Crankyswife1
Date Posted: Jul 03 2009 at 7:31pm
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I have lived in this city all my life, my parents and their parents. I am now 52 and must admit I firmly believe these members are not in this position for your interest or for the city. Look at the members, they all have at some point in time personally benefited by the position. There is usually a hidden agenda and there is in-fighting. The exception to my statements is the Mayor and City Commissioner. These two are really trying to serve the city, unfortunately, the membership on the council does not provide the needed skills or competency to deliver this city from the current situation. It is hopeless unless we have council members that are willing to network with other successful communities, organizations that are outside I don't mean replicating the same plan as in place today. Extreme situations require a radical approach. We must view this as a crisis and take decisive action. The members have not fully demonstrated this attribute. They continue looking for free money and governmental packages. That will never be a long term solution, it is very shortsighted. Since ASJ is quick to challenge others to research, when is the last time she connected to the internet to search opportunities herself. What are other councils doing, who are the ones with great success. When is the last time we invited and consulted with these individuals. Show me a committee that was in the same situation that we are facing (and I don’t mean I don't mean to focus on ASJ, but her demeanor is fostering a repeat of 3 yrs ago. Not just ASJ, but all council members should step back and change behavior. Pursuing HUD funding is more of the same. We need to look far beyond this approach. |
Posted By: Rocky2023
Date Posted: Jul 06 2009 at 11:13pm
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You are "RIGHT ON" with your observation. Just look who really showed up in the July 4th parade and look who did not. There is an example of commitment. Now, you may ask, where were the ones that did not ???
I know the one was mingling with the crowd near the starting point to secure her votes in the next election. Again, it the personal agenda that just destroys any creditability. Now we will hear all the excuses and that we are picking on her again, and, we will listen to her internalize her actions at the next meeting. |