City Manager wants Bike Path
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown City Government
Forum Name: City Manager
Forum Description: Discuss the city manager administration including all city departments.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1353
Printed Date: Nov 25 2024 at 10:56am
Topic: City Manager wants Bike Path
Posted By: John Beagle
Subject: City Manager wants Bike Path
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 2:02pm
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from the city manager's report: Energy Grant $490,000: Bike Path or Building Improvements Good news! We have been notified that we are the recipient of another $490,000 in stimulus funds to be used for energy efficiency related activities. Activities that might be eligible include bike paths (due to fuel conservation) and renovations to city facilities to conserve energy. Renovations to facilities would include lighting, HVAC systems, windows, energy efficient pumps and the like. We are having staff discussions right now about finding the most appropriate project. We have a number of older city-owned buildings in need of improvements that would qualify for the energy efficiency grant, which would in turn provide a return with energy savings year after year. At the same time, it would be great to make the final 2 mile connection of our bike path to Franklin, which would then connect us to a 6 county region with over 250 miles of pathway. If any council member has any thoughts on whether we should renovate a city-owned building or connect the bike path, please let me know. Like many of the stimulus funds, we don’t have a lot of time to prepare the application, so we’ll need to make a decision in the near future. My preference is to finish the bike path. ------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Replies:
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 2:04pm
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My preference is also a bike path. Repairs are needed to the existing one between Trenton and Middletown. Check out this photo of a section that needs repairs:   ------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: 409
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 2:12pm
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Gilleland also states:
Energy Grant $490,000: Bike Path or Building Improvements
Good news! We have been notified that we are the recipient of another $490,000 in stimulus funds to be used for energy efficiency related activities. Activities that might be eligible include bike paths (due to fuel conservation) and renovations to city facilities to conserve energy. Renovations to facilities would include lighting, HVAC systems, windows, energy efficient pumps and the like. We are having staff discussions right now about finding the most appropriate project. We have a number of older city-owned buildings in need of improvements that would qualify for the energy efficiency grant, which would in turn provide a return with energy savings year after year. At the same time, it would be great to make the final 2 mile connection of our bike path to Franklin, which would then connect us to a 6 county region with over 250 miles of pathway. If any council member has any thoughts on whether we should renovate a city-owned building or connect the bike path, please let me know. Like many of the stimulus funds, we don’t have a lot of time to prepare the application, so we’ll need to make a decision in the near future. My preference is to finish the bike path. Judy, I (we) would like to know just what older city owned buildings you are referring to. Also, what the energy savings would amount to. Enough to renovate the vault at Pioneer Cemetery?
While the bike path is nice for the few who use it, it doesn't benefit the majority of the citizens and the so-called "fuel conservation" would at best be miniscule.
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Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 3:08pm
| John- I guess in making a decision on to spend money/or not spend money on the continuation of the bike path, I would ask the question- How many people would use this bike path after completion? When I drive down around Carmody Blvd. and Bicentennial Commons, I have yet to see this path being used. Granted, it's only occasionally that I take that drive, but I can't help thinking that there are better things to spend this money on for more bang to the buck. Spending this money on upgrading money sucking city buildings would save the city more money in the long run than the path, would it not? What monetary rewards would we keep getting back with the bike path for years to come? JMO |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 3:48pm
| I know very few people who use this bike path, and most that do say that it is nasty, filthy and smelly. A half mill ought to buy a pretty nice bike path(for what reason?). |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 4:11pm
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To answer your question Spiderjohn, not many use it at all. 2 reasons why it makes sense. 1. The path as it sits right now is a hazard. 2. It may encourage others to use it. Hate to see such a nice path just wash away. It is only a small section that needs repairs. You can't quite tell from this photo, but there is a 6" drop that is not noticeable until you are right on top of it. I almost crashed because the sign wasn't very visible.  ------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 6:57pm
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John it would have to encourage 1000's to make it worthwhile under the current circumstances and I doubt that will happen. I can think of better ways to spend the money. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 7:31pm
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First, the pictures make it obvious that the problem would require an EXPENSIVE fix! The problem is the “base” (or sub-base), and would require extensive excavation and engineered backfill, at a minimum! Also, the pictures seem to indicate that this section of the bike path is on the “river side” of the levee. If this is true, ‘tis folly to try to either repair or extend the path in its current configuration and this entire section has been a WASTE of public funds. Second, the City Manager has proposed "to make the final 2 mile connection of our bike path to Franklin” and did not mention any repairs to existing portions of the path. If she maintains a consistent policy (with that used for the vault at Middletown’s Pioneer Cemetery) since there is no money for restoration of the path, it must be DEMOLISHED, especially since this now has been reported and is a LIABILITY for the City. Third, the City Manager is using the same sort of convoluted logic typical of Middletown’s Council and City Hall when she states “Activities that might be eligible include bike paths (due to fuel conservation)…”! This implies that trips by bike would “REPLACE” trips by fuel-burning vehicles. I can’t imagine this to be true. If anything, this would INCREASE fuel usage by encouraging people to load their expensive bikes onto their gas-guzzling SUVs; drive TWO vehicles to their destination point, then drive one vehicle to their starting point, peddle to their destination, load their bikes onto the destination vehicle, drive BACK to the starting point, pick up the first vehicle, then drive the TWO vehicles home. Can ANYONE explain to me how this “CONSERVES” fuel? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
John Beagle wrote:Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 10:24pm
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ahhhh come om Mike if you lived in Franklin and worked in Middletown wouldn't you take the Bike Path in December. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: May 27 2009 at 11:33pm
HUH??!? I can't swim or ice skate!!  ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: May 28 2009 at 7:56am
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Someone please estimate the gas savings in doing this Bike path. Is it at least $490,000.00 in the next 50 years? I doubt it. There are far more important projects that could be done that will come out of all of the taxpayers pockets this money could be used for. Bike Path repair and finishing is not high on that list.
Bike Path finishing is a high priority, maintaining the City owned Cemetery is not.......go figure, you have got to love the working of mind at City Government. It is sad that this City is built on a dysfunctional City Hall Government, that always has its hand out for the Citizen to do their job.
Sorry John but I don't see enough people using this Bike Path to make it worth $500k at this time. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: May 30 2009 at 1:37pm
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I fail to comprehend the need to spend fund's for a bike path when our street's are in such shambles. During economic turmoil one must make a sacrifice for the better of one's self. I do not see city council making this sacrifice as they expect the citizens to do. Again it is the blind trying to lead more people into the darkness. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: katiebell
Date Posted: May 30 2009 at 10:03pm
| Why can't a small portion of this money be used for the vault and cemetary? It would leave plenty for the roads in town. All they have to do is say they want to fix the road through the cemetary. It may be a white lie, but they are masters of lies! |
Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:31am
| The half a million dollars was awarded for projects that somehow improve energy efficiency, so restoring a vault in a cemetery does not seem to meet the requirements of the funds. I'm not certain of the name of the grant the city received, but I think that it was described as money to be used for projects related to improving energy usage, which is why the City Manager asked for council input regarding whether the money should be used to retrofit an old city owned building with things like energy efficient bulbs, I guess, or completing the bike path. Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation I believe. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 1:05pm
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Bike path is little-used, and would seem to be a very low priority at this time.
Even light bulbs in municipal buildings might be a better expense, though out-sourcing the installation labor would be extremely cost effective.
Or we could actually find out:
How many Middletown municipal employees does it take to change a light bulb(and at what cost)?
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Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 1:54pm
| Spider> That is a good one, I will say 2 to hold the bulb and 4 to turn the ladder, sounds good to me. |
Posted By: Middletown News
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 2:14pm
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Bike paths are just one of many ways the Obama wants to Europeanize America. Global warming is just a way to get us to drive small cars. Get rid of your pickup trucks and vans and SUVs. Bring back the Yugo crapmobile.
Its like the feminization of America. The left wants us to drive gay little cars, ride bikes, and welcome Gay news, marriage and comedians as if thats the way we all ought to be. Pretty soon you will not be able to buy a V8 anything. We'll all be driving around in Golf carts. lol ------------- Please like our http://www.facebook.com/middletownusa" rel="nofollow - Middletown USA Facebook Page |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 8:54pm
That's not a bad idea. We can do like China and several other Asian countries,rickshaw's to replace taxi cab's,two seat automobiles,more bicycle's for the poor who can not afford American made junk. Just think of the saving's on the eco system ! When gasoline hit's $6-$8 dollar's per gallon we'll have no worries !! ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: May 31 2009 at 11:04pm
| If they don't start repairing these roads we will all be riding energy efficiency bikes because our cars will not be able to take all of the pounding from these deleted roads that city refuses to fix. Maybe we all can get a grant. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 6:01am
With all due respect, you mention projects "that somehow improve energy efficiency" and "projects related to improving energy usage". Can you explain how the bike path accomplishes either of those goals? Even if "Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation" (which it is NOT), it conserves absoluely NO energy unless it replaces some other LESS energy efficient mode of transportation used for the same reason!!! Are you telling us that NOT ONLY some people that now use an automobile to drive along the river between here and Franklin would no longer do so if we were to complete this path, BUT ALSO there would be enough of such usage to MORE than offset the energy required to prepare the proposed path, gather the raw material and produce, transport, lay, and compact the asphalt to construct the bike path? And that all of this usage would occur before the path required REPAIR and MAINTENANCE as shown in the pictures above?
Is THAT what you are telling us?.
I am sorry, Marianne, but I believe that the bike path is (and will be) used IN ADDITION TO any other use of less energy efficient transportation, resulting in an NET INCREASE in energy use. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 9:01am
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Mike, Here's what I was "telling": Originally posted by Marianne The half a million dollars was awarded for projects that somehow improve energy efficiency, so restoring a vault in a cemetery does not seem to meet the requirements of the funds. I'm not certain of the name of the grant the city received, but I think that it was described as money to be used for projects related to improving energy usage, which is why the City Manager asked for council input regarding whether the money should be used to retrofit an old city owned building with things like energy efficient bulbs, I guess, or completing the bike path. Using a bicycle is the most energy efficient mode of transportation I believe. .... |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 01 2009 at 6:43pm
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Marianne my standpoint is how many of the 52,000 residents in Middletown are going to use the Bike Path and benefit from it? On the other hand there have been comments made of Firehouses in disrepair and other buildings in town that could use energy saving upgrades. How many citizens benefit from these types of projects, in my mind all of the Citizens benefit from these programs versus what a thousand people in Middletown from a bike path that can be used only what 5-6 months out of year. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Marianne
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 8:47am
| Pacman, I understand your point. My point was merely a response to someone asking: why can't this be used for streets? It seems the simple answer is: repairing the streets wouldn't qualify under the type of money the city has received. Of course, that could be incorrect, but that's all my post was meant to say - precisely what it said. :) |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 8:55am
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Sorry if I misunderstood your post.
Maybe the streets would qualify if we....
May 27 2009, 9:23AM http://correspondents.theatlantic.com/lisa_margonelli/2009/05/really_the_white_roof_solution.php - Really? The White Roof Solution.We've come to expect that the "solutions" to Climate Change will be high tech--floating windmills, underwater generators, and nano solar in the Jules Verne/James Bond tradition--or at least high concept (carbon credit trading). But this week Energy Secretary and Nobel Prize winner http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/obamas-climate-guru-paint-your-roof-white-1691209.html - Steve Chu is in Europe extolling the benefits of ... white roofs . The concept is simple but the numbers he cites are massive: Making roofs and pavement more reflective could offset 44 billion tons of CO2, or the equivalent of taking all of the world's cars off the road for 11 years. (While these numbers appear huge, there's no mention of the time frame, so they're not comparable to other numbers.) ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 9:28am
| How interesting are the City staff priorities for utilizing $180,000+ in supplementary CDBG funding?? Paving alleys and installing additional playground apparatus may placate some Ward 2 factions, but are those expenditures the highest priority of the City of Middletown?? I fully expect the City Council tonight to rubber-stamp this proposal. |
Posted By: General Patton
Date Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 9:31am
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Miss Vivian -
You must be scratching your head after reading how the all-knowing inhabitants of One Donham Plaza proposed to spend the extra $180,000 in HUD funds that the City is to receive. What hypocrisy that they only have $11,000 available to spend at the Historic Pioneer Cemetery?? They are masters of double-speak!!
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Posted By: katiebell
Date Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 3:53pm
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Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 2:03pm
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Does the middletown leaders have some of those government funds for Vivian Moon's repair project? Our ancestors are buried in the cemetery on First.
We must repect the founders of our city like I respect Jerry Lynch, Johnny Temple, Frank Robinson and Vada Pinson. Long live Crosley Field.
Smokey
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 4:32pm
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Hi Smokey!!
"Catchy" screen name!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 2:36pm
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Mike, There is only about 50 feet that needs repair. The bike path will ultimately connect with the Great Miami Bike Path aka River Corridor Bikeway that goes through Dayton to Taylorsville MetroPark. Here is a photo from today of part of the bike path near entryway at Baxter and RT 73. 
------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 6:13pm
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Jonh, I am not against a Bike path, but as far as the Farce that it is going to be an energy saver, as in people are going to be lining up to ride their bikes to work or anywhere else that they would normally take their car is just a joke. The people that use the path for recreation and pleasure will continue to do so, there will be no mass abandonment of the auto to use the Bike Path. The Bike path will benefit very few residents of Middletown at this time. While $500k spent on updating buildings, repairing the Fire Houses that we keep hearing are deplorable in some cases would be a much better use of these funds at this time and would benefit the City as a whole. Can you tell me that even 20% how about 15% of the Middletown Population uses this Bike Path the 6-7 months out of the year that it is feasible to use it? |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 10:07pm
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Playground's & bike path's,more important than street's and job's I guess. Oh that's right,we have the steel mill,sorry I keep forgetting. AK will save us as in the past,Oh that's right,they moved the headquarters to West Chester,I guess they don't care about us,they all but left us outright,I'm so sad now. But we have a bike path !! That will bring people ! And people who need job's ! No wait,the people will want section 8 housing & they live on welfare so they won't need job's,I'm so forgetful. Adult entertainment !! We need lot's of adult entertainment ! That WILL bring people & job's. It will also give the police more to do besides pestering citizens who park on the street. Plus....council members can hold retreats at the club's ! Some brilliant idea's have come from inside adult club's.
I'm sorry,I was just thinking out loud. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 10:29pm
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Mr. Beagle: With all due respect, judging stricly and solely on your originally posted photo (shown below) and a reasonable knowledge of the local geology, I can make some observations and reach reasonable conclusion. (Please bear in mind that I am neither a registered civil engineer, nor a licensed geologist, and I am providing an "opinion only".)
It certainly appears that either the designer or the builder of the bike path recognized a soil problem in this area, and elected to put down some sort of prepared base. (The picture looks a lot like "blast furnace slag", an excellent engineered fill material, was used. However, I doubt it. It is more probably an O-DOT-rated crushed rock.)
Even with this preparation, the pictures clearly indicate failure due to what is frequently called "pumping". If this occurs with the extremely light loads (bicycles and ATVs?) or even occasional 4x4s, this indicates a sub-base that needs extensive attention. This is somewhat similar to the problem that Franklin had with S. Riley Blvd. (Also known as Canal St.)
What needs to be done? There are several options, none of which are cheap.
Excavate until an acceptable load bearing stratum is reached, an backfill using engineered fill.
Try to stabilize the existing sub-base by grout injection or any of several other expensive and risky ways.
Drive piles, and pour a pile cap.
Attempt compaction by vibration (unlikely to succeed), surcharge (would take a couple of years, at least), etc.
Now I don't know the exact location of either this spot, or of the latest photo that looks so nice, but I'm willing to bet a goodly sum that soil conditions are much different.
You might also try "floating slabs", a mud mat, or excavating down a few feet and trying flowable fill.
I am NOT trying to knock the bike path, I am just trying to point out the facts as I see them. Perhaps you should check with the REAL construction experts in Middletown, the ones that stated they were the ONLY ONES capable of making the construction decisions on that so-called HUGE (in actuality, merely $13 million) project, "Crossroads 2000." That would be then-City Commissioners Nenni, Schiavone, Banks, Sennet, and whoever else was there in 2000.
------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 10:47pm
Now that's funny! Am I out of line than the usual posts? |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 10:49pm
| I'm sorry. But is a bike path even feasible along the Middletown area without flooding? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 4:06am
The question now is whether or not to use the $400K earmarked by the Feds for "energy conservation" to complete the last missing piece of the bike path linking Middletown's part to Franklin's section. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 5:09am
Those leaders, or should I say dictators, of the City need to spend new federal taxpayer dollars to fix up city buildings and reduce their energy costs. Adding to the Bicycle path does not compare.
Smokey |
Posted By: Smokey Burgess
Date Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 9:59am
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IF MY GUESS IS RIGHT, I MIGHT KNOW THE DADDY OF THIS GUY??
Sale Date: 11-Jun-09
Plaintiff: CITIMORTGAGE, INC. Defendant: MATTHEW B. ARM_R_S_ER, ET AL Address: Case # : CV08114883 Appraised: $128700 Starting Bid: $85800 |
Posted By: Hermes
Date Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 10:24am
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Madisonmom I'm glad you liked my posting even though it was in jest. But on the serious side it is beyond ignorance for the city to even think about spending money on this path. Especially stimulus money or energy money or whatever you want to call it. Thing's such as the bike path & playground equipment come AFTER everything else. Safety,stability,good resources etc,etc come first or at least should anyway. When the economic base is stable and the tax money and donation's are rolling in then worry about the recreation side of thing's,not before. What benefit is it to have a million dollar bike path when you have no money to maintain it and a very small percentage of the populace that use it ? Is the new moto of Middeltown going to say "Middletown,a great place to raise your family and start a business because we have a bike path". Put that on a sign out by the interstate and see how fast people flock to Middeltown. ------------- No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !! |