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Is It time For A Recall?

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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2010 at 3:38pm
OK--I live in the ward now represented by Mr.Allen
IF he was to be successfully re-called, I would be willing to serve out the remainder of his sentence--err..I mean his term, and under NO circumstances would I seek the position in a following election. One very short stint to halt the bleeding caused by the dark side foursome.
 
Do I think that I could represent the city as a whole in a better fashion?
YES
I would have my own agenda, and would absolutely not align myself with any faction now serving.
I respect everyone now on board and city staff without necessarily agreeing with anything they are doing at this time.
 
And I honestly very much like Mr.Allen as a person--just not very much as my Council representative.
 
You do your job here--and I guarantee that I will fulfill my obligation.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2010 at 4:12pm
Next Time I will twist your arm harder the First Time.Big%20smile
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tomahawk35 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 22 2010 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Voice of Reason Voice of Reason wrote:

Ah, now you are backtracking a bit, I see.  But still, Pacman, my question remains--can you give me just one or two names of people you'd rather see on council? 

If it is the second time this month that the issue has surfaced then surely by now you would have given it some thought...if you had thought that far ahead, which I presume you haven't.  You say it's premature to consider who should replace the current council; I would argue that a logical, clear thinking person would already have a replacement in mind if recall was the method. 
 
To consider a recall without replacements is like shooting your gun first, then deciding to aim next. 
 
Can anyone else who advocates a recall give me a name to consider?
Look like you got the answer to your question about who we will back as a replacement(SpiderJohn) your move.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 12:08am
Originally posted by Voice of Reason Voice of Reason wrote:

Ah, now you are backtracking a bit, I see.  But still, Pacman, my question remains--can you give me just one or two names of people you'd rather see on council? 

If it is the second time this month that the issue has surfaced then surely by now you would have given it some thought...if you had thought that far ahead, which I presume you haven't.  You say it's premature to consider who should replace the current council; I would argue that a logical, clear thinking person would already have a replacement in mind if recall was the method. 
 
To consider a recall without replacements is like shooting your gun first, then deciding to aim next. 
 
Can anyone else who advocates a recall give me a name to consider?
 
 
VOR once again I would argue that you are putting the cart before the horse.  If a recall is decided upon an organizational meeting will be held and the Council Persons to be placed on the recall Petition will be decided.  Whether they come from a ward or at large matters.  At that time people to replace them will be decided upon or names put forth and they will be contacted.  Now that being said I have no clue who would run in wards 2 and 4 as I know very little about who lives in these wards.  But I do know enough people in these wards to go to them and see who would be the best candidates and that will happen.  I am not going to sit here and pull names out of thin air to satisfy you.  Ward 1 I know several people who could run, do they want to I don't know, it appears one does in Mr. Dillman, who if he has listened to me earlier in the year would have thrown his hat in to the pot when Allen was put in Armbrusters spot. but that was his decision back then.
 
"To consider",-- The definition of CONSIDER: to think about carefully: as a : to think of especially with regard to taking some action.
 
Unlike you I would prefer to have a meeting and CONSIDER all of the options available.  Including the most viable candidates from any area of the city that it may be decided to have a Recall vote. 
 
I would argue that a logical person would not prefer Your shoot from the hip and hope you hit something method.  Since that is the method you prefer knock yourself out.  I'll take the more organized approach and consult others who have lived here far longer than I have and can assist in making logical decisions.
 
 
 
 
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wannaknow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wannaknow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:10am
I just want to know who would be willing to step up and take part, knock on doors and do what needs to be done. This is not a person job it will take many to make this happen. Also who would replace him?? Any volunteers?
 
Randy, I will volunteer to help in any way I can.I live in this ward and IMO it has received less consideration than any other area in Middletown. This ward includes the much neglected Pioneer Cemetary with the surrounding garbage strewn broken sidewalks, the Riverside Mobile Home Park which has been a haven for the homeless and drug addicts. The abandoned truck parking lot and Aeronca's parking lot are full of trash. I can barely get my baby's stroller across the little canal bridge because it is about 6 inches deep with road crud. I won't even start on the canal which is full of every kind of trash, not to mention the rancid water that becomes a breeding ground for mosquitos in the summer. I was told the city (or state) was supposed to spray to control the mosquito population but heard that they gave that about 5 yrs ago.
I heard from a very reliable source that there was an offer made to the city to open a new business in this area and the city refused to talk with them because they were not planning any improvements to this area at this time.
You can walk the streets in this ward and see all the broken pavement and trash, or you can drive and count all the closed businesses.
I have read MJ articles that talk about the gateway to MIddletown being the east end and how important it is to develope that area. I think the airport is a much larger 'gateway' and should have just a wee amount of their consideration. 
I have gotten off subject.
Please let me know what I can do to help.
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Franklin Roosevelt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Franklin Roosevelt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 7:34pm

Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 8:13pm
Good Lord Roosevelt! Educated people of accomplishment? What the hell does that have to do with making competent decisions concerning this town? Doesn't make any difference how "educated" a person is, if they don't have the ability to reason and make the correct, logical decisions in given situations, they are worthless in a leadership role and to the people they are suppose to serve. "They are qualified to make big decisions".....- What? Have you been paying attention to any of the decisions that have been made in this town in the last 30 frikkin' years? Why do you think this town is in the shape that it is in? Mercy!
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by Franklin Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt wrote:

Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others.

 
This has to be either one of the most Sarcastic or one of the Dumbest Posts on MiddletownUSA.  Yeah, Frankie we see where all of the "educated people of accomplishment"......"qualified to make big decsions......" has gotten us.  First off I hope those educated people can spell "decsions" correctly.
 
Infrastructure failing
 
Schools at the Bottom of the County and State lists.
 
Poverty doubled in the last 10 years
 
Section 8 out of control by choice as the "educated people" figured it would stem the flow of neighborhoods declining.  I am still laughing at that one.  Bring in 4200 people with an average income of less than $11,000.00, or less back when it started. a year is going to help declining neighborhoods......that's a good one.
 
Business are leaving quicker than rats fleeing a sinking ship.
 
No jobs are being created in the numbers needed to sustain the city.  Only getting the 10-50 jobs here and there if lucky.
 
Unions have seized control of the General fund by mandate of the State, specifically police and fire.
 
We now have a City that allows outsiders to be placed on any board or commission to shape policy and make recommendations then they go home and the citizens suffer the repercussions of poor policy recommendations.
 
Downtown is not even a shell of its past currently.
 
2000-3000 homes that need to be leveled and no funds to even make a dent in that number.
 
Hundreds of Homes for sale and no one to buy them due to the poor reputation that Middletown suffers in the area.  Poor schools, lack of jobs, lack of effective leadership, lack of entertainment and retail/service amenities, etc.  Hey but we got "educated people of accomplishment"..."qualified to make big decisions" according to good old Frankie.
 
And on and on and on.
 
Gee, Frankie do us all a favor and go over to Monroe and impart some of your "sage advice"LOL as I don't think I can stand to laugh so hard again as I did on the post above.
 
"educated people of accomplishment"......"qualified to make big decisions......"  Oh man I can't stand it LOLBig%20smileLOL what a Clown you are Frankie.
 
 
 
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tomahawk35 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 9:34pm
[QUOTE=Franklin Roosevelt]

Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others.

[/Q UOTE]
They are con-artist and you sound like you fall in that crowg with that statment.
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tomahawk35 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by tomahawk35 tomahawk35 wrote:

[QUOTE=Franklin Roosevelt]

Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others.

[/Q UOTE]
They are con-artist and you sound like you fall in that crowg with that statment.
I'm educated but I hit the wrong on my computer spelling crowd,Iam tired because I worked ten hrs today.
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 23 2010 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by Franklin Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt wrote:

Most of the talk coming from this board is off point. Complain all you want about the "majority" on council. They are educated people of accomplishment. They are qualified to make big decsions unlike some others.
My goodness gracious, Frankie!!!  Do you even know the folks who post on this board???  Most use screen names.  What makes you so sure that they are not "educated people of accomplishment"???  Are you positve that they are not "qualified to make big decsions"???  Are you certain, or--like the personage whose name you have purloined--are you just assuming that you and the governing elite know better than the "little people"???
 
What "big decisions" have you made, Frankie???  (Besides the one to blantantly characterize everyone who posts on this forum as an uneducated kook, lacking any significant accomplishments.) 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 24 2010 at 8:00am
ONCE AGAIN
DON'T BE DISTRACTED BY THE TROLLS
 
they are only here because we are winning and gaining support and readership within the community
they want to bring us down to Council's level of in-fighting and distrust
they want to waste your time with responding to the cheap shots(negative dark side mntality)
every time that they post this negative nonsense, please respond by ignoring the posting, followed by putting up something positive and/or constructive.
 
keep focused doing what you do-how you think
we are winning the fight--they can't handle it-desperation is already setting in
the obsession over this site and the regulars(particularly Mr.Self)within the golden bunker of the former downtown area is HUGE. Don't kid yourselves--they read every word every day. Their former solidarity is cracking at the seams. Their backs are to the wall, and they are beginning to react like a cornered opossum.
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Voice of Reason View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 9:02pm
Pacman, you are delusional.  I am advocating the measured, considered approach--I am in favor of having alternative plans in place for replacing coucil members before any recall movement would begin. 
 
This is the exact opposite of how you characterize my approach, as "shoot from the hip."  Shooting from the hip is saying "No" to an idea or person without any alternative idea, which is exactly what you are advocating by pushing a recall without any clear alternative candidates.  This is an example of "shoot from the hip" and hope for the best if ever there was. 
 
Here's an example that you could probably understand--a lot of people wanted "anybody but Bush" and so they voted for Obama.  Many of these people now are considerably regretting that decision and are about to reverse course and will vote for Republicans next week.  They, like you, "shot from the hip" and voted for Obama, mostly just to get rid of Bush, without fully understanding what the man was like. 
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 9:49pm
Give it a rest VOR, you want to use your approach then get off your ass and do it.  I have clearly stated how I feel about the issue and when the info on how a Recall is to be attempted, if at all, and a meeting decided on I will be there.  You go on and be a one man band and do your thing.  You refuse to listen to anyone other than yourself....and that is your problem not mine.  It is not solely my place to just spout out names to make you happy without 1) consulting others in Middletown and 2) without consulting the prospective people to run as a replacement to see if they are even interested.
 
Also I don't shoot from the hip on matters such as this.  If a group of Middletown Citizens decides that it is prudent to move forward with a recall of one or more current Council Members, then all necessary steps will be taken to attempt a recall including finding suitable replacements, prior to the petition being filed.
 
As far as Obama goes I wasn't naive enough to buy all the crap he was dishing out and while I was no fan of John McCain he was the lesser of two evils in my mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 25 2010 at 10:00pm
Pacman, I never advocated recall in the first place--I simply said recall proceedings should wait until other viable candidates are identified. 
 
Thus, I will be on my ass, waiting for the next election day, since ultimately I feel that recall is not warranted at this time, and the next round of elections will serve our purposes just right. 
 
I challenged you to give some names, not for my personal gain, but rather because it is very reasonable to have, as I have said, alternative ideas in place before firing the current lot.  This is prudent in many circumstances, politics and otherwise. 
 
As far as listening to others, you are wrong again--I constantly listen to alternative ideas and conclusions.  I have my basic principles--limited, responsible government; low taxes; free market approach wherever possilb, etc.--and my policy views flow from these basic principles. 
 
I am always willing to listen to alternative viewpoints and it is always good to dissect them and understand their assumptions. 
 
I am always willing to test my own policy views against other views, since in doing so I will either 1) come to the conclusion that I am wrong and I will therefore correct my view or 2) I will re-affirm my own viewpoint if I find unsound reasoning in the alternative viewpoint or principles that support the other idea that I don't agree with. 
 
This is why I was pressing for names and my approach to the recall procedure--I was not in favor of recall but I wanted to consider other viewpoints and alternative candidates. 
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 5:51am

VOR:

Just a couple of gentle suggestion:

If you are convinced that the recall effort is futile, then let the advocates of same be. Why agitate??? No skin off your nose (unless you have some other agenda).

On the other hand, unless you are convinced that we have the absolute best citizen legislators available perhaps you know of possible candidates that may be willing to come forward in what others see as their “hour of need” and can somehow put them in touch with those seeing the need for a recall. After all, shouldn’t the best government available be everyone’s goal???

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:09pm
Mike,
I am not convinced that recall is futile, nor am I convinced recall is the right way to proceed at this time.  That's why I am content to wait for election day next year--I am unswayed either way at this point.  I was pressing for alternative candidates, because, as I tried to say earlier, I try to always be open to new ideas in order to test my current views. 
 
If someone had pulled forth an "aha" candidate that I thought would be an excellent addition to council then I would be much more inclined to sway towards recall.  As it is, nothing much of substance was offered to me so I remain content to wait until next year to voice my opinions.  What you call "agitating" I call getting to the heart of the matter--that is, who would replace the current crop if a recall took place. 
 
As you seem to be a clear thinking and logical person yourself (unlike some on the forum), I trust you'll understand that I know of no others currently willing/able to serve that would necessarily be better in elected office than the current council.  After all, it's usually very difficult to know how a person will perform in elected office until they are elected to said office.  I agree with you that the best government available should be everyone's goal, and by pressing for alternatives to the current council memebers I think I was aiming for exactly that goal. 
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelababy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 1:22am
The 8424 is not the total number of Registered voters in Middletown, it is the Number of Registered voters in Middletown who actually voted in the last election. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 6:00am
Originally posted by Voice of Reason Voice of Reason wrote:

... I trust you'll understand that I know of no others currently willing/able to serve that would necessarily be better in elected office than the current council.  After all, it's usually very difficult to know how a person will perform in elected office until they are elected to said office. ...
"...some men achieve greatness, some men have greatness thrust upon them.”
 
I know several good people who have never considered political office of any kind.  They are intelligent, have clear, logical minds, have no financial interests in the city (other than their homes), but are civic-minded and have only the good of the community at heart.  They are recently retired.  Some have taken part-time work to stay busy.
 
I doubt that ANY of these folks would, left to their own devices, ever consider running for public office.  They are just too unassuming!!!  But who lnows how they might react if approached by a group and asked to step up and serve their community for a couple of years.
 
These are likely just the type of folks that we need at a time like this, and they likely would serve out the recall term and not run for re-election, so their decisions would be for the common good and not political.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 6:59am
Randy- where do we stand on the recall effort? You had contacted the Board Of Elections and talked to McGary. Did she set you up with the details and paperwork needed? OR.......has everyone decided that this is not the right time to push this with elections coming up? Sounds like Mike has some potential folks to consider and we have Spider offering his services. We need more "MUSA" thinking folks to step up.

If the recall/petition route is decided, let me know. I'll take some around in the 3rd Ward as time allows. Need about 1500 signatures as I see it. Any other folks out there that could take some petitions around for registered voter signatures in all sections of the city?

Status??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelababy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2010 at 10:46pm
I would also agree with Wasteful to do a referendum if it is possible on the Commission and Boards issue.   Kind of lets send a message that we are tired of not being listened to, except when it is convenient for Council and Admin as it was with the Pendleton issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 02 2010 at 11:53am
Did you get the paperwork for the recall? If so, when/where do we meet to write the petition requirements, pass out the list of registered voters and start walking to get signatures? Or, are we waiting until after the next local election?
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