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Saturday, November 23, 2024 |
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6/21 Council meeting comments |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Hey Mike--the $7,000 cost estimate for the Olde Southe Parke lighting came from Mr.Duritsch. I only repeated his quote, so you can assume the $7,000 is on the low end. The city may well crush a sewer pipe, have a flood or something else to take the cost well over another million $$$. And we know who would be on the hook then. The city wiggles out of every other payment obligation--the can easily wiggle out of this one in many ways. Any other organization from any other part of town outside the chosen zone with the bottomless money pit would be blown off and denied without hesitation. Should I remind everyone of the Supthin St.debacle, the bike path fix(still a long way from resolution and final cost figure), the new road dig-ups on N University, the roadway collapse on N University up in the MU-M area, the hydraulic canal, the impending sewer issues along N Main? The list is longer...Do you really think that the S Main St repair job will be a quick smooth process? Just think back to the way the poor people and businesses along S Supthin were treated and strung along. Council made every excuse in the world without caring. Mr.Picard(ward rep) was absolutely useless and aloof.
Mr.Gordon--thank you for your time and sincere answers. You wanted this project, so you can spare us the whining about the costs associated. As our mayor would say--only so many pizzas per month(where does he get his pizzas?). Welcome to our world of being screwed by the current version of our city govt. Though Mr.Adkins, Mr.K, Ms.G or Mr.Landen will probably find some hidden cash in some forgotten "mothballed" fund to pay your share and the eventual cost and over-runs. You be-little Mike's comments about the car hoods, yet we all know that the situation was quickly approved by every organization imaginable, whether they were involved or not. Simply falling over each other to be the voice to grant Mr.Verdin whatever artistic license he desired(no matter how ridiculous). Did we actually order and pay for those car hoods? If so--where are they? lol
The beauty found in this situation and discussion is that eveyone pursuing every angle seriously cares about their property, their neighborhood, and this community. We simply have to find a way to join together to work constructiely and trusting on EVERYTHING. It is probably those that don't care enough to get involved and to communicate that we should worry about.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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sj has zeroed in on this situation and nailed it. The city situation and those in the city getting screwed by the utter incompetence of years of being reactive and playing catch-up has not caught up to everyone. Its like the Titantic going down within the last hour, and the poor Irish are locked by gates while women and children are supposed to be first to get to the life boats. The same situation is here in what sj so apatly nailed as the "chosen zone."
What the city is doing and the "chosen zone", also known as the Highland District, is treating that area like those getting first dibs on the Titantic lifeboats. The city knows precisely what it is doing...protecting that area's property valuation ahead of others. Yes, I know where Ms. G lives, and others, but MK, LM, others, live in an area they exert and leverage every ounce of power, favoritism, and croynism to lower the fall of property values when they are in free-fall every corner of Middletown, at taxpayer expense, and exquitable consideration for all residents.
Does anyone honestly not recognize the hypocrisy surrounding spending $500,000 on Cincinnati State and desiring to plug that into the Manchester and the Cinergy Building, when destroying so many others in town? Its straught forward, no pHD required on that chess move. It is to protect the area on Main using taxpayer money for what was hoped, prayed, visioned, an escape hatch for the residents down on Main as the crumbling came around the block. That is the sole reason for pushing Cincinnati State and taking $500,000 in cash to buy property and try to pump up the area LM, MK, others, live. The CS deal isn't about saving Middletown, adding more to educational diversity, but to create firewalls around those that know what carnage has been dropped on Middletown by city hall and council.
So Mr. Gordon, when throwing in the check-out cart THE MONEY PIT for C State, the Verdin project, that's nearly a MILLION in cash and reserves creating the Main Street firewall. As sj correctly stated, now the at large council will be in play in the future, allowing the city to determine who carries their water and does their bidding, the residents, analogous to Titantic sinking, will be stack ranked in importance, with deals being struck left and right hat have nothing to do with bettering the city. The C State deal and PAC fiasco was just a smoke screen to create the perimeter, the smoke screen, the fire wall, for the Main Street club.
Too bad the city isn't laying asphalt in my neighborhood and haven't in > 25 years, in a neighborhood of homes that once sold north of $325,000. First dibs of course go to building the fire wall for Main Street, and that's why the State and PAC deal, and shuffling of buildings in musical chair sequence, was orchestrated. We all can't be "dummy downed", and we should not be paying for the firewall on Main. The idea of course, was there would be some college profs, maybe a President, who would be interested in buying real estate down there, and maybe advance around the hospital. Nice area in the 1930's, but C State will focus their eyes out by the highway of they do anything.
Personally, I find the area across the bridge in Franklin on the Carlise side, to be more appealing, with the Harding museum and the river flowing. As one of the Board members at C State said, "why are we buying or leasing a musuem"? Finally, as for traffic, the speed flow is not 20 mph, and that street takes little abuse, and is not a heavily traveled area. I still don't comprehend why street lights aren't included in the money the city already got from the public safety levy?
In my opinion,
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Mr. Gordon: There is one more point with which I disagree. You stated: “ Anyone who has walked down Central or North Main at night can attest that these lights put out just as much, if not more, illumination as the aging regular-style lights on any other street in the city.” Perhaps you could impose on your friends at City Hall to supply the specifications of both the lights that you want installed on South Main Street and the street lights that would be installed in any other area of the city and then post that information here for all to see. I think that you will find that on a one-to-one basis, the lights on Central do NOT put out more light. I think they just appear to put out more light because:
So, you see Mr. Gordon, we must look at the TOTAL number of lights, the type of lamps, and the power usage to make a valid comparison for not only the initial costs but also the ONGOING utility and maintenance costs to the taxpayers!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Acclaro,
Speaking of Cincinnati State, have you noticed that we haven't heard a word about the ongoing costs of ownership to the taxpayers for the properties supposedly acquired to accommodate Cinci State???
As City Hall sings the budget blues to us bagholders, we deserve to have these figures brought out into the open.
Just this man's opinion!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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lol acclaro--I agree with your assessment also.
Face it---west of PAC and Beau Verre, the former downtown area has continued it's collapse.
There is no business presence on N Main now whatsoever outside of Broadway News and MU-M graciously maintaining office space in the former Barnitz bank building(which probably isn't necessary, and only a leftover from Ms.Cowan's run with the local university. Wouldn't be surprised if Mr.Pratt eventually ends this project).
East of PAC and Beau Verre on Central???
lol though not funny at all.
Our mayor and city manager spearheaded the Thatcher property purchases under the guise of a strong Cincy St.presence in the area, which seems to get smaller and further off as time progresses. acclaro's "firewall" opinion seems more true every day. Valuable taxpayer $$ was spent mainly to keep these lost properties from going over to the "unworthy". But who truely are the "unworthy" in this situation? imo it has become Council and Admin.
The return of Mr.Husemann---can anyone shed light on the truth of this situation? Why bring him back to assist the city manager unless the main plan is for him to eventually replace her in his prior position?
When and by whom was this situation discussed and approved, or when will it be done? Obviously in executive session.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Maybe Kohler just needs Huesmann to represent him before a city board again, and he'll have more juice in doing so as acting Assistant City Manager???
So what if it costs the taxpayers $10K or so??? Money is no object to these folks as long as it is OPM (other people's money)!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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ground swat
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 31 2011 Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Anyone heard from Mr.Pratt, word has that the Neyer group isn't all that thrilled dealing with our our city manager. Millions being spent in hope of revenues and we get to worry about money spent on street lamps. There isn't enough money to buy a ticket for this ride. I 'll look forward to watching some of the Main st. residents come to the podium and ask that No taxpayers money will be involved.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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No taxpayer money involved??? How??? Standard streetlights in most neighborhoods number about one every two hundred feet (min.) I’d guess. The brighter lights that Mr. Gordon and his neighbors want are installed downtown, probably, at least 2 or 3 per 200 feet, times two (each side), so the ongoing maintenance and power costs to the taxpayers will be higher forever. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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middletownscouter
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 11 2010 Location: Sunset Park Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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The maintenance costs may not be too much higher when you consider the equipment that must be used to maintain the taller lights (man lifts) versus these newer ones (ladder).
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Mike
Mr. Adkins stated at a city council meeting several months ago that the City was filling out the paperwork for the Ohio Historical Society so the city could file grants for the Highland District and South Main Street. What happened to these grants?? When Mr. Smith inquired if this grant could be used for the cemetery Mr. Adkins stated he didn't know.
Mr. Adkins also stated last years that CDBG funds were going to be used in the Highland Disitrict since it was one of his "TARGET AREAS". |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Mr.Gordon--while it may seem that we are piling it on you pretty deep(and in a sense we are), this is really not about you. I commend you for taking the time and effort to explain your angle on the situation. Your explanations have been very clear,detailed and appreciated. I would assume that everyone here respects your position, your desire, and your intent to improve both your property and the community. Don't look at us as your adversaries--but as fellow concerned and caring citizens. We don't have do agree on things, though we can respectfully have these discussions.
Many are simply tired of the biased, wasteful and predictable way in which our municipal govt.operates.
Please help us break the cycle and downward spiral in ALL areas of the community.
Each neighborhood is as important as every other neighborhood.
As my mentor Victor Wooten's mother told him:
"Every day when you first wake up and look into the mirror, remind yourself---No one is better than you,
and you are better than no one."
And please buy your tickets to see Victor and his fellow Flecktones next April at Millet Hall.
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ground swat
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 31 2011 Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Well said, It's our money that is spent hap-hazard by the Feds, by the State, and then with hopes of getting 8800 students in our town. I hope it comes true but it flies in the face of sound business practice. If the City knows something the TAXPAYERS don't, spell it out. Thats more of an insult then spending OUR money. Anyone going to see the Menu's?
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johnnyp26
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Nov 19 2010 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Thanks a lot VietVet. I love being a firefighter/ paramedic. I wanted to be one since riding on my uncle's fire engine on FDNY as a 4 year old. Too often we don't hear a simple "thanks". But that's part of the job and I'm OK with that. We strive to be the best at what we do, despite having a dismal training deparment due to budget cuts. We are realistic about the current state of the city but it is very hard to trust those in power. Some people forget that we are taxpayers too.
I assume you are a military veteran my your name, if so, thanks for your service to our country. It's ironic that our military and its veterans suffer the same lack of respect as police and firefighters by the same type of people. If it was easy everybody would be doing it.....
Again, thank you.
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409
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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Just came back from enjoying the Menu's.
Best group so far this year. Of course they are always good.
Good crowd, good time, & good weather for a change!
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Attended the bash also.
Huge orderly crowd--outstanding scenery--good time
paid no attention to the band
had 2 very tasty chili dogs @ the square, where they were upbeat and valiantly attempting to turn lemons into lemonade
was approached by a nice gentleman who is running for Council
supposedly has already filed everything necessary
we shall see what he will bring to the table
was outside of one of my business locations yesterday, watching a senior city employee of community development pull up business advertisement signs from the area as we head into the prime business holiday of the summer. Kinda wondered why they were out inhibiting business activity instead of working with the businesses and attracting more diverse entities into the community instead. And wondered why only certain businesses and areasare targeted while other less-savory businesses continue to operatecontinually in complete violation.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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sj, the dichotomy of what the city does to one, to another can be amusing at times in Oz. Sign starndards so high around Atrium, no billboards, etc., Rogers Flowers clean as they come, but Main littered with nasty signs, FOR LEASE everywhere, every block, and Gold R Us more dominant than the smell of McDonald hamburgers on Verity.
I have heard, although no idea if true, tax deparment and city hall has stack ranked residents from net worth on down, and same with companies. Obviously AK and Atrium at top, city even pays for a police officer to be out by Coke plant for hours daily, just like they did at Hook Field, guarding it like it was Ft. Knox.
Dunno why or why not, just know dunno what's up nor what's down with city hall. Sure hope your rumor about the return of Huesman is unfounded. I do know that they are spinning round and round. City taking a mighty fine interest in the Sr. Citizens Center. Wonder of that's to buy YES votes, tit for tat. Everytime I get a peek and offer to be inside the circle of love, I run fast from the dark side of town.
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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acclaro:
when were the police "guarding" hook field? if it was during an event, the organizer pays for the officer, not the city. also, i think sun coke or ak pays for the officers working there.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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jag123, right after Hook Field was built, and for months. Every day during the working day, police sitting at Coke directing traffic. Really doesn't matter who pays the bill, its the resource utilization.
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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most of the police officers are "off duty" officers making extra pay. don't know what you mean about hook field when it was built. that was 60 years ago.
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Voice of Reason
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 13 2010 Location: Williams Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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johnnyp--thanks for the info. I realize I come down hard on firefighters as it relates to their unionized status and their contracts, but I have no reason to doubt the professionalism and ability of the firefighters we have on staff. As a practical matter I just think that if a large portion of the city's budget is spent on any particular item (in this case the police and fire personnel), then when times are tight you have to think hard about cutting where the spending is the greatest.
You've answered my question about the need to accompany an ambulance on every run, and I guess I buy that to some extent, so perhaps you can explain this other item that nags at me; correct me if I'm wrong, but do our firefighters work 24 hour shifts? And if so, what, exactly, is the reasoning behind that? My gut tells me it harkens back to the old days of volunteer fire departments, when it made sense to have one set of volunteers cover for an extended period, say, 24 hours, and the firefighters could eat, sleep, or do whatever during that shift, but what exactly is the reasoning behind that today?
As I alluded to in my earlier post, I know of no other continuous operation that schedules its crews in such a way. My gut also tells me that this is the preferred schedule for firefighters because it allows them to have most of the week free to pursue part-time jobs or other interests. Is that the case? Can you tell me, from your own judgment, what portion of the firefighters have part time jobs? And let me be clear, I have no issue with a person who feels the need to work two or more jobs to make ends meet--good for them, they're several notches in character above the many deadbeats that drag us down through section 8, welfare, etc. But the issue I have is that we seem to cling to this antiquated system of 24-hour scheduling in order to 1) allow the fire fighters to work other jobs, as I've said, and 2) maximize the overtime opportunities for the firefighters. Also, if you are at the station for two 24-hour shifts per week, how much time is spent sleeping in that 48-hour span? Don't get me wrong, I would never expect any of you to be awake for 24 or 48 straight hours--that would be crazy and dangerous. But I would guess that at least 12 to 16 hours are spent sleeping during that span, so the actual available time is a lot less than 48 hours per week. Now I don't doubt there have been times when you've had to get up from sleep to answer a call, so it's not as though you're completely unavailable during this time, but my point remains--we're not getting truly 48 hours per week of productive work from the firefighters. This brings me to the conclusion that we would get a far better value and would need fewer firefighters if they worked 12 hour shifts and were, of course, awake for the full 12 hours. And iff the firefighter staff were reduced by 10-15% this would be a significant savings to the city without any material loss in service.
If you can give me a compelling reason, why, for example, you don't work 3 or 4 12-hour shifts per week like nurses do then I'll shut up and stop asking quesitons about this topic. Thanks!
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"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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johnnyp26
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Nov 19 2010 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Hi, Voice of Reason. Sorry about the delay, my Mom's health is failing and my focus went with her....
As far as how many firefighters work part-time jobs, I would say less than half. We don't have the luxury the police has. They have numerous businesses that will pay them overtime wages for "part-time" work (using city owned vehicles and equipment, I might add). When you see a medic unit at a special event, like a soccer tournament or Broad Street Bash, it is an ON DUTY medic unit. The police you see are being paid overtime by the event. That medic unit is also required to cover it's district....I just hope the delay in response doesn't affect you! Our work schedule always comes under attack. It amazes me. Several years ago the City paid $40,000 for a study of the fire department (the Matrix Study). They determined that the City got the most "bang for it's buck" by the way we operate. OK, if we run 19 firefighters per shift for 24 hours, our trucks get staffed. If we went to 8 hour shifts, we would need 19x3 to cover 24 hours, or 19 firefighters for each 8 hour shift (57 firefighters per day!!!!!) You also have to account for vacations, illnesses, and injuries, which would increase the number of firefighters needed per day. If each firefighter worked 40 hours a week, we would be well over 120 firefighters minimum. We are currently at around 76. That is a lot of extra money the City would need for salaries, pensions, and health insurance! Also, we work a 52-hour work week and get paid bi-weekly. Regular employees would get 24 hours of overtime per check. WE DON"T!!! We get paid straight time. To stay in accordance with FLSA, we accumulate what is called an EDO (earned day off), which is a paid day off. We are on pace to make about 10,700 calls for service this year. Divide 10,700 by 365 and it equals about 29 calls per day. Trust me, we stay busy. We train, do building fire inspections, do public education, test fire hose, test fire hydrants, test our ladders. It is impossible to predict when we will be busy with calls or not. We do get to sleep when we get the chance, I would never deny that. But , wow, I would love to get to sleep 12-16 hours per day. The simple fact is we don't. There may be other less busy fire departments that get to do that. If it happens here, it's extremely rare. I have no problem with anyone questioning how we do our job. It brings about healthy debate. Like I have said, we have absolutely nothing to hide. The bottom line is if they cut us 10-15%, everyone will feel the effects of it. There will be less firefighters on duty to respond to calls. Our calls for service have increased every year for decades. People who call 911 will either get lucky and have MFD respond quickly, or wait for an out-of-town fire dept. to repond to their call for help. Lastly, if I made anywhere near what a nurse makes on the hour, I would be open to any shift!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!
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