Health Department Property Tax! Are they crazy?

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   Josh is drinking the Jones/Smith coolaid on this one.  The last thing the City needs right now is a new property tax!

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Middletown29 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown29 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Health Department Property Tax! Are they crazy? Posted: May 04 2011 at 4:14am
	Josh is drinking the Jones/Smith coolaid on this one. The last thing the City needs right now is a new property tax!

Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 4:25am
	Worse yet, they were either afraid or ashamed to discuss this in Council Chambers a let the discussion be televised to the citizenry, but they think we should vote for it based on campaign rhetoric instead of the actual discussions that they held!!!! Here's a health tip for them: *GO FLY A KITE* (and do THAT in private)!!!
	“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012

Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 4:29am
	The people should ALWAYS be *"too uncomfortable"* to *PAY* for *ANYTHING* that council is "too uncomfortable" to discuss in front of us!!!
	“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012

Middletown29 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown29 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 9:44am
	If a Health Departmeny levy is put on the ballot and passes, nothing will prevent a future Council from reducing the General Fund monies that go to Health Department. Don't be fooled into thinking this is a "Health" levy. It is a General Fund tax levy in disguise!!!

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 11:22am
	Really interesting Mr. "Out of Box" thinking (according to the Middletown Journal without citing any incidence of out of box thinking by Mr. Becker, whom always calls for 'regionalism', did not take a stand with Ms. G that the Health Department should be regionalized. And what will the MJ say in their Sunday editorial....council missed an opportunity to 'regionalize'? What amusement from these folks. Mike, to add to other list regarding LL, and his skilled legal acumen, it is also a violation of the code of Professional Conduct to use the threat of a criminal incarceration as a means as running a collection agency, ergo, the tax codified ordinance and about 90% of the existing ordinance. Staggering to hearMr. Becker admit obeying state law did not get in their way since the 1980's. A truer word has never been spoken Mr. Becker, on all fronts, including the court.

Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 12:36pm
	Yep, breaking the law is against their ethics--unless there is a few bucks in it for them!!!
	“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012

Middletown29 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown29 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 1:07pm
	Isn't it part of our local elected officials responsibility to make sure we get our share of services from the County?

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 1:25pm
	In Ms. G's defense, she did state it would seem an obvious scenario, for the Middletown Health Department to merge with the county---you know, what they all call regionalization now! But, ASJ, J Laubach, and AJS said we want Middletown to have control. Council is so dazed and confused. So the buzzword is regionalization, but they contradict that with "we want to maintain local control" and a tax levy? When does this stop? Wasn't the rationale for Section 8 and the city's strong involvement, was "the city wanted to have local control"? Well, local control yielded a disproportionate amount of Section 8 in MIddletown, leading to many academic problems Ms. Andrews on the school board has acknowledged, and undoubtedly the health problems for the 70% poverty in Middletown. And the cause of al this? Why city leadership and city council. And the solution taxpayers? You---they expect you to pay for additional taxation to keep local control that could easily and economically be handed of, in the name of "regionalization to Butler Cty Health" associated with heath problems associated with poverty that by 2014, Obama's Health Care solution is to resolve right...but you foot the bill to avoid "regionalization" and to continue to have local control which has failed in so many ways previously. Ever hear of the term talking out of both sides of one's mouth? And I thought Mr. Laubach was a tea party, fiscal conservative, The rhetoric doesn't match his vote and position. Consolidation does make sense on this one---but who in Middletown EVER wants to give control to others? Memo to council: Regionalization runs contrary to "keeping it all inside." Get your act together will you, as you've run the city in the ground far, lets at least comprehend what the meaning of the words you state actually mean. I'm sure the iPad has access to an electronic dictionary.

TonyB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631	Post Options Post Reply Quote TonyB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 1:26pm
	M29 - local officials have no authority to make sure we get our "share" of anything from the County. They can influence county officials but not "make" them do anything. As for a Health Dept. Levy, the ballot language would have to be specific that it could only be spent for Health Dept. activities. Of course, after the admission of our council that they regualrly violate the law, what good would that be?!!! There will be no levies approved in this town until we re-establish trust in our elected officials. How to go about that should be up to the Ohio AG and the electorate of the city of Middletown!

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 1:39pm
	M29 and Tony: city leaders don't want to foot the bill for the minor portion coming from the General Fund to pay for salaries et al, for Middletown Health Department. Without question, based purely on sound economic principles, it should be regionalized and combined with Butler Cty Health, but Ms. G's motivation is to save the approximate $100 Kk paid by the city while the rest is funded. The levy will fail, no need for it as Obama's Health Care Bill is already collecting tens of $Bb in funding, and economies of scale dictate it be merged. Mike (Presta), lets add another one to your list associated with LL and bidding (not being followed): did Greg Pratt "win" the bid for his services and wasit advertised? I don't think so. TonyB: in your other post regarding Mr. Becker and his admission of disobeying state laws for 20 + years---no, there is no statute of limitations for admitting violating a state law while holding public office. Depending on the offense, of course, if civil, there is an appropriate time to be tolled, for criminal, no, it begins when the discovery of the violation occurs. For elected officials to admit openly violating state laws, or having knowledge of such, it is immediate grounds for removal. Gosh AJS, put on your thinking cap. Here's your tit for tat moment. One wonders how many violations of state law Mr. Becker referred, and were they both criminal and civil? We know don't we.

TonyB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631	Post Options Post Reply Quote TonyB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 3:37pm
	acclaro - I'm not sold yet on the sound economic principle of "regionalization" as it relates to public health. I much prefer the idea of "Think globally, act locally" because it lends to flexibility of response. Of course, given that our leadership has the mentality of "Law, I don't need no stinkin' law", I'm not sure that they have the interest of the citizens in mind. Since that is the case, I don't see how anything can be done until we clear the corruption out of the city government. The sound economic principle that I see it that for $132k, the city is getting over $700k of services. I doubt that Butler County can come close to the ROI of that. Not to mention there is no guarantee that we'll receive any more consideration from Butler Co. than we do now. Middletown has always been "the red-headed step child" of this county; I have no faith in the Butler Co Commission to do anything for Middletown. Whatever we do, it first has to start with purging the malfeisance of our own city council!

acclaro Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878	Post Options Post Reply Quote acclaro Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 6:28pm
	Federal grant would follow to Butler Cty Health. More services for less expense. Middletown's electorate has led to the 'red haired step-sister syndrone.' But, there is Nancy Nix as treasurer and Noah Powers as Judge. What more could you ask for? Middletown voted on its representation. And the former police chief says nothing wrong with violating the state law for a few decades. Are you wondering why Middletown has such a repuation? But again, this is the same man who made John Boehner's gavel, go figure. http://youtu.be/8nyX68jJJGk

Middletown29 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474	Post Options Post Reply Quote Middletown29 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 6:56pm
	TonyB The "levy" would have to be used for the health department. But the City could offset the levy with a reduction in funding from the general fund. They have the same argument about the police and fire income tax levy. Nothing in that levy requires they continue to fund police and fire at the same level from the general funds. Bait and switch.

TonyB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631	Post Options Post Reply Quote TonyB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: May 04 2011 at 7:28pm
	acclaro - just because the grant from Middletown went to Butler County doesn't mean that the money would be spent in Middletown. Since these kind of "grants" are just the kind of budget item to get reduced, that would mean less money being spent on public health in the city of Middletown. When it comes to public health, I vote for local control over county control. I understand your thinking on this issue, I just don't agree. M29 - I understand what would happen; since our elected leaders have no credibility with me, I won't be voting for any tax increases until we have leadership that respects the law.