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Wednesday, November 13, 2024 |
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Middletown's Formula for Downtown Success?? |
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Analytical 
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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 Topic: Middletown's Formula for Downtown Success??Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 12:12pm |
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1) Former Manchester Inn 2) Former Snider Building 3) Former First National Bank Building 4) Former Rose Furniture Building 5) Goetz Tower 6) Former Senior Citizen's Center 7) Former Montgomery Ward Building 8) Former Strand/Studio Theater Property 9) Former CG&E Building ($340K Property Tax Delinquent)
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itsamee
MUSA Resident 
Joined: May 03 2013 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 1:41pm |
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Analytical's formula for success??
Move out of town Use bold and brightly colored fonts |
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Itsa me, mario!
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 1:53pm |
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What a profound post, Itsamee! We await you providing concrete solutions as to how Middletown can finally overcome
the negative impact of the above stalled, heavily subsidized, unsuccessful deals?
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itsamee
MUSA Resident
Joined: May 03 2013 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 154 |
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Posted: Aug 29 2018 at 2:06pm |
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1. I will write more profound posts on the internet where I can point fingers from afar.
2. As a resident, I will continue to elect the same officials and complain about them while not running for office myself. 3. I will not go to council meetings. 4. I will not go downtown and try and support the local business there. Those people should suffer for taking advantage of the system! 5. I will continue to hang out in this echo chamber of grumpy gus' just like me!
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Itsa me, mario!
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Aug 30 2018 at 7:47am |
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Just curious itsamee, since you are not in agreement with Analytical's posts for the most part, what would you suggest to address the issues presented here? Your posts always condemn Analytical for his information based on facts presented by him, but you don't seem to add your thoughts as to how to address the issues as you see things. Just wonder how you envision the city and if you would like to tell us your ideas to better the city.
Would you be willing to give us some thoughts as to why Analytical is wrong in his information and presentation and what you would do to correct what you see is wrong with Middletown? Right or wrong, the way the situation is now, Analytical seems to be re-enforcing his claims with viable data and you seem to be criticizing his information and the manner in which he presents it with no supporting evidence. Could you elaborate on your criticism with supporting data so that we may compare your information to his? It will allow us to form a conclusion as to who is correct. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Aug 30 2018 at 11:40am |
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Hey---at least it was easier to read
How many times can someone say the same thing(even when no one seems to be listening)? Council meetings are not what they used to be---little to no discussion(all happens backstage now)--though finally some "emergency" legislation failed--gasp!! Instead of running FOR Council, most run FROM Council I support many businesses in our formerly downtown area--mostly because they are pretty much the only businesses that we have left Would be nice to read some new thinking here--specifically of the constructive nature...otherwise this formerly cool place is old news |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Sep 01 2018 at 1:37pm |
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Steve -
Say what you will. However, do spend a little time going through blog archives and you'll find that both Whistlersmom and Vivian Moon were once frequent "posters" who raised issues that you might characterize as being REPETITIVE insofar as concerns about unspoken/unknown city problems. In Vivian's case, she aggressively sought and obtained detailed financial/programmatic information on NSP, CDBG, HOME, other HUD-funded assistance programs like Section 8, Downtown Fund, UDAG Fund, etc.. For example, much light was shed on the monetary waste and damaging NSP-funded neighborhood mega demolition endeavor that's scarred the former Ward 2. Then, there's the diversion of $220,000+ of these "RESIDNETIAL FORECLOSURE PREVENTION FUNDS" to buy, demolish and resell "downtown" commercial properties for $1.00 to Liberty Spirits LLC. It was Vivian who obtained copies of contract documents for some "downtown" re-development deals and discovered that they lacked customary provisions protecting the best interests of the city. In one instance she provided this data to a sitting city council member. He chose not to share her findings because the other four city council members were said to unlikely show any concern. Just think that legally-trained city staff failed to include customary re-developer performance requirements, ownership reversionary clause protections, etc. The former Manchester Inn and Snider Buildings are prime examples of this incompetence. It was brought to light how $600,000 in Wellhead Protection funds were diverted to pay for the cost of the Orman Buildings demolition. It was Vivian who exposed the cavalier waste of $180,000+ in CDBG Stimulus Funds to pave two alleys and facility/playground improvements at lightly used S. Main Street Park. The list goes on and on, Steve. How many times Vivian and I would share our disappointment regarding the modest level of responses to fact-filled posts. Similar sentiments were also shared with Whistlersmom as she commented often about other matters of civic importance. As long as there's the current level of resident apathy regarding the priorities, policies, plans and programs of Doug Adkins and city council, how likely is it that Middletown will begin successfully addressing a multitude of community betterment matters in a productive and cost-effective manner? And, in response to your comment about the MUSA blog once again becoming a cool site, please review archived posts. You'll find that numerous items of concern have been continuously voiced over the past 10 years. Let's see what the "new revamped" MUSA blog that you envision will become. The ball is in your court along with Itsamee, FmrMide81, Buddhalite, etc. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 03 2018 at 9:05am |
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sorry--no 'ball", not even a "court"
the list definitely goes on + we read about it daily again and again and again always grateful for Ms.Moon's discoveries--always liked her and respect her--wish her nothing but the best Middietown is going to have to get it right eventually, hopefully sooner rather than much later the town is still here Learn from the past and move on not out to punish anyone, though daily reading here has become enough punishment yet I still live here for the most part--and will go out to have an enjoyable holiday today--life goes on--it could be a lot worse Maybe break your obsession with this past? |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Sep 03 2018 at 12:37pm |
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Steve -
Pray tell, how can anyone break "their obsession with the past" when continuously new problems and questionable actions keep happening? Surely you recognize this? Middletown deserves a City Manager who has demonstrated core competencies in community development. Middletown deserves a City Manager who doesn't micro-manage all "downtown", neighborhood revitalization and economic development priorities, policies, plans and programs. As you often say, Middletown deserves better than 20-25 minute long "pre-determined" city council meetings. You've been outspoken when it comes to City Council. For the most part, you've given Doug Adkins a pass! Until there is change at the top, you will continue to read about questionable One Donham Abbey actions. Middletown has squandered millions in HUD and other funds over the past 9.5 years. As you noted about the Sutphin Street area and "the area formerly known as downtown", there's not much improvement of note.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Sep 03 2018 at 3:18pm |
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So what do we do here folks? Do we "pack it in" and say goodbye to the only news source that is available to dispute the one sided crap shoveled by the Journal? Do we just let the city leaders have their way without so much as a whimper and just stop participating in a free wheeling dialogue from all sides of the ledger? Do we just quit on the job and walk away from monitoring, reporting and giving our honest responses to what is happening in this city in all areas of concern? Does anyone care about the hidden agendas from council, the city manager and the city government in general? Do the folks living here care at all what the city has become, care about the agenda, or care about how their money is being spent? Does apathy win? Does cowering win? Do they win? From free speech democracy to closed mouth dictatorship?
Do we want to eliminate this social counter balance to voice our opinions and just accept what is going on in this city like good little servants do? It is exactly what they want us to do. Roll over and play dead, silencing the only vocal resistance this city has. Do we sell out and just move out of town like others have done? Stop participation and let it die. That will please them and let them have free reigns to do as they please without oversight at all. They are no doubt happy this forum is on life support as to participation. Adkins and company are smiling right now. Do we give them the satisfaction? Is this the way we want to go here? And "what will you do when the only source to express yourself is removed and the only means of voicing your opinion dies"......(Kinda like the speech old Braveheart gave the band of Scots before the battle with the King of England-Longshanks army isn't it?)  Think about it before you give up your right to voice your opinions. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 04 2018 at 8:49am |
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I don't see where anyone is "winning", or giving up voicing opinions---we hardly have any opinions here anymore anyway. And those opinions being voiced here have been given dozens of times.
What about something new to think about and talk about? Re-hashing the past(mostly unfortunate decisions by many long gone) is going nowhere and hasn't changed much lately. No one honestly cares much what any of us post anymore. Times have changed--there are positive people out there doing good things--hopefully that continues and mushrooms.... |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 9:09am |
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[QUOTE EXCERPT=spiderjohn]
Re-hashing the past (mostly unfortunate decisions by many long gone) is going nowhere and hasn't changed much lately. [/QUOTE] Steve, how unfortunate that you predictably omitted the one senior city staff member who's been both the architect of and administrator for quite a few costly, questionable, low- to no-impact "downtown" and older neighborhood plans, programs and projects over the past 9.5 years. Steve, to the contrary, the "unfortunate decisions of the past" that you note sadly still happen to this day. So many lost opportunities to revitalize Middletown and millions of HUD and other funding sources gone! The documented facts detailed in MUSA blog archives (past and recent) fully substantiate the above assertions. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 11:41am |
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Over 10 years of discussion here
Didn’t make a difference—at least not much |
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 2:30pm |
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Like FmrMide81 posted before, if the buses are running and the trash is picked up, most people just don't care.
It's anyone's guess what the physical and economic health of Middletown will be in 2023 or even in 2028. More private sector business investments and volunteer contributions (like Berachah Church) are imperatives. You're correct in highlighting non-governmental actions and the positives no matter how small. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 5:08pm |
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Ok, spiderjohn, and I'm sure others, suggest this forum has "dried up" and blown away unless we introduce new, interesting content as topics. Spider, and others, seem to have had enough of what this forum offers and apparently see no reason to continue this format. Perhaps they are correct.
Ok then. To coin and alter a phrase from the Gipper..... Mr. Beagle, tear down this forum!! Let it be done. When this forum goes, there will no longer be any vocal dissent in this town. The leaders will be thrilled and overjoyed. They will have no published resistance to offset their agenda. Flaws and failures to any issue will not be brought to anyone's attention now. Let's all move on with our lives and pretend with all the other clueless, apathetic people living here, that all is well in Middieland. Yessirree, the town will be run right and the schools will make a total resounding turnaround now that they have their nice little new schools in place. All we have to do is ignore any questionable performance or decision and refuse to hold anyone accountable for constantly screwing up the city and schools. Let 'em both go to hell in a handbasket while we go about our daily lives. Who cares how bad each get now. Lower that bar until we reach rock bottom. The lie is just beginning and we are now in a "just fooling ourselves" mode here. 
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 05 2018 at 10:44pm |
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Honestly this forum has little to do with changing anything mentioned above...
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 7:40am |
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Then shut it down if it provides no useful purpose.
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 8:52am |
Steve - Ample, verifiable evidence has been offered since 2008 for city-subsidized and/or administered multi-million dollar community betterment(?) activities. Senior city staff devised priorities, policies, plans and programs for their highly-visible still stalled/incomplete/unsuccessful projects. A review of blog archives finds that maybe 15 to perhaps 20 members, aside from "closet" One Donham Abbey "friends", participated in meaningful discourse. Some of those "vacillated" back and forth from the ranks of the concerned citizens to pro-bureaucracy camps. It's hard to admit that there's been there's been precious few blog participants who have voiced concern regarding various matters of great importance. In no way is this realization an "indictment" of those like VietVet, Vivian Moon, Acclaro, Whistlersmom, etc., etc. For the most part only a small cadre of "preferred" residents comprise city commissions, committees, etc. In closing, what will the economic/housing/infrastructure health of Middletown be in five to ten years? GOD willing, sustainable improvements will occur. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 10:51am |
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This has been a very interesting and productive spot for local discussion. Not saying that it needs to go away.
However, constant repetition of unfortunate decisions and unforeseen results that cannot change has pretty much driven constructive discourse away. Anyone straying from Analytical’s attack/punishment mode is disrespected as not caring, or protecting Council and Admin. Everyone is concerned—everyone cares—accept that we all don’t think similarly or vindictively(?). This place may regain popularity—it may not Places like this come and go. It’s 10+ year life has been very active. Maybe accept the possibility that the repetitive negative droning is a factor. Not denying or discounting the info posted in the past—it has been very enlightening, and I thank you for your efforts in laying it out. |
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buddhalite
MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 11 2017 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 1:35pm |
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First, this board can be a wonderful resource for the citizens of Middletown. I see no reason to shut down the board.
Secondly, Spider hit it on the head with his use of the word Vindictive. There are ways to present materials and information in a spirit of cooperation and for the pursuit of good actions by council and city staff that don't amount to a tantrum over years ago spilled milk. Thirdly, the forum hasn't 'dried up' - rather the forum can be vibrant - but content matters. The more content we post, the more active the forum will be. New topics are desperately needed. This place should be the go-to spot for news and information and most importantly discussion regarding our fair city. With a little less repetition, less vindication and more participation....this can once again be a vigorous discussion forum that can have impact all over the city.
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"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
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Analytical
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 19 2015 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 562 |
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Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 6:21pm |
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Because of your oft-stated interest in running for city council next year, let your suggestion for the solicitation of
new blog discussion topics begin with you. And, in the process, try to be a little less sanctimonious from now forward as you're on record as having dished out quite a number of provocative, blatantly critical and insulting comments yourself. Try offering specifics this time rather than penning frequent generalities. And, Steve, please know that I'm not alone in recognizing the "vacillation" tendencies of some over the years.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 06 2018 at 7:12pm |
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Well-intentioned people of authority occasionally make regrettable decisions, Nelson. Not everything plays out as planned either. Being the “answer man” is not always glamourous and good. A lot of responsibility and pressure. Few are capable or want these positions. With time and circumstances, people often change their minds. Often we have to accept the bad along with the good. Ok — enough of that....
I don’t live in the past. I think more about tomorrow than about yesterday. I worry more about my decisions than those of others. I see people trying to make good things happen around here, and want them to succeed. Vet and you are sincerely good people, though your unhappiness and resentment overpowers everything else and is extremely repetitive. Most understand how you feel, though it might be time to take a break until you have something fresh to offer. They say that “ misery loves company” and geothermal of you seem to come here for that reason. Let it go—move in to something positive that makes you happy. Your anger is too obvious..... Let it go for a while—take a break and actually enjoy yourselves... |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 8:24am |
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I will not speak for Analytical Spider, but I will try and take your suggestion to back off posting. You are 100% correct concerning my bitterness toward the city and the schools. I detest what the city has done to my hometown and I detest seeing everyone's taxes going down the black hole of futility with the schools. The city leaders and school people irritate me to no end when I see constant failures over DECADES and no actual positive progression happening despite enormous amounts of money being spent (and wasted) with their failed programs and ideas.
I repeat my posts because the same problems exist. My posts are repetitive because the town nor the schools never change for the better. The city is now ghetto status compared to the better years and the schools are bottom feeders when compared to surrounding school districts. The numbers don't lie for the schools and the poor image and reputation of this city is readily apparent. Nevertheless, I will take your suggestion, as hard as it will be to do. and try my best to back off the posts. I doubt very seriously whether I will find too many positive things to say about the city or the schools. That being the case, I will just not post at all if it is too critical. Your suggestions have been duly noted. Thank you for your honesty in your overview of the situation. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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buddhalite
MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 11 2017 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 499 |
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Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 2:15pm |
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See, this is why this board is 'drying' up - all I did was share my true thoughts and feelings - and I get roasted.
It isn't worth participating under these circumstances.
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"Every government intervention [in the marketplace] creates unintended consequences, which lead to calls for further government interventions." -Ludwig van Mises
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 07 2018 at 4:38pm |
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Vet—the irony in this is that I agree with a lot of what you say, and you know that to be the case—the lingering bitterness simply isn’t worth it imo
Nelson obviously thinks otherwise, though I also won’t dispute a lot of what he says either.... |
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