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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Points: 3483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fair Market Value=$125K
    Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 4:11am

“Ms. Scott Jones also clarified that originally what was brought to council was

that the fair market value was $125,000, now someone has purchased it for

$50,000. Council did not know about that property.” [from the minutes of the March 16, 2010 city council meeting, page 65 of 107 of the workbook for the 04/06/2010 meeting]

I missed this point when I watched the meeting. The $125,000 “fair market value” must have been “brought to council” during a previous executive session as it surely had not been mentioned during any open council meeting. It certainly appears as if someone was trying to grease this thing so that it would slide through council easily!!!

So, let me summarize what we dumb citizens (and city council) are supposed to believe:

  • The property at 1607 Central Avenue, which had been empty and on the market for quite some time, presently has a FAIR MARKET VALUE of $125,000.
  • NO ONE involved (not even our Economic Development Director--who has his finger on the pulse of all commercial property in the area--nor any of the other movers and shakers that frequent city hall) realized that the property had been foreclosed upon by the MAYOR‘S bank (a procedure that even a moron like me knows takes a matter of months) and would be included in a February Sheriff’s sale.
  • No one at city hall (not even any of the movers and shakers mentioned in the previous sentence) knew the property had been purchased at said Sheriff’s sale for $50,000, (or at least none thought it noteworthy enough to mention to city council) prior to Friday, 03/12/2010, the day the agenda and workbook were posted to the city’s website.

THAT is what one must believe if one is to believe that this whole mess was entirely an honest misunderstanding.

Would ANYONE who believes all of that please contact me immediately!!! I’ll let you in on the ground floor of a new perpetual motion machine I have recently invented that will end the world’s energy and pollution problems!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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wasteful View Drop Down
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From the Journal today:
 
"The city became involved in the deal mainly over tax issues, Robinette said, as Midd-Town Custom Cabinets initiated swap conversations in an effort to avoid paying up to $15,000 in capital gains taxes.

Midd-Town Custom Cabinets, co-owned by Jeff Brown and Don Kennedy, is responsible for carpentry inside of numerous local businesses, including the Middletown Public Library, Java Johnny’s and the now-closed 56 Degrees Wine Bistro.

Kennedy said the deal has always been “designed to save the city money.”

“Rather than paying $15,000 in taxes and passing that along to the city in our sale price, we figured we could just do an exchange,” Kennedy said. “It was an even deal as far as we were concerned.”

Council raised questions about the swap when it came to light the current owner of the Central Avenue property had purchased it for $50,000 mere weeks before the deal was proposed. Kennedy dismissed claims the proposed swap was a “good old deal,” as he said his business is eating the $40,000 loss, not the city."

It is my understanding that Family Services was also interested in the Central Ave. building and offered $90k for it and got turned down, anyone verify that.
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 9:38am
I was told the same thing by the director of family services. He was probably turned down because everyone in city govt. and TVM wants this facility moved and gone(along with the Hope House and govt.assistance offices). Well--maybe when the private sector wants these properties bad enough to BUY them on their own, fix them up and successfully operate a business entity.....
 
Otherwise, the area formerly known as downtown "is what it is" and "what you see is what you get". Maybe it is best utilized by Family Services,Hope House and govt.assistance offices since it puts them in close proximity to their client base. Remember--we didn't want them to have to travel to Hamilton for Section 8 situations. Obviously "upscale" is what is REALLY out of place in that area. Rogers Jewelry/ofdfices, 56 Degrees, the Drug store lunch counter, MU-M presence, other artistic venues--they have all bombed.
 
jmo
 
Economic Development tries to get through EMERGENCY LEGISLATION for a bogus land swap involving a business with THREE EMPLOYEES(quality business nonethe less) to save them $15,000 in capital gains taxes( + $5,000 in moving expenses(three blocks away on the same side of the street). This deal gets more bizarre and un-necessary as it continues to evolve. Still not as big of a rip-off as the Duncan land exchange was.
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Points: 793 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 10:28am
Hey Spider didn't the city just put in a bus Line to Hamilton.  Now the Section 8 crowd can no longer claim, "I have no way to get to Hamilton."
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Points: 3483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 11:01am
And don't forget that they opened up the waiting list for Section 8 vouchers that were SUPPOSED to be being REDUCED via attrition!!!  Pumping up the waiting list is a really strange way to make attrition work!!!
 
The whole point is:  Why are people constantly allowed to get away with stuff like this???
 
Isn't it about time that the guilty parties are identified and prosecuted???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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wasteful View Drop Down
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Points: 793 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 11:44am
Mike as long as Council is controlled by the good old boys club you will have this problem.  Look at this situation, Picard, Becker and Mulligan just sat through the last meeting and didn't say a word that I recall about this matter.  While Smith, Laubach and Scott-Jones carried the ball on this issue.  We need a 4th to take Armbrusters place to put an end to the lets just shove it through and get on with it mentality.
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 11:52am
lol wasteful--the next line will be
"We don't have the $$ to ride the bus to Hamiltucky".
So-we will be paying for the bus ride.
 
Seems that our ED Dept.head(and the city Council/Admin) would be FAR more concerned with finding a suitable location for Family Services and their hundreds of clients, instead of worrying about a 3-employee cabinet shop making a short trip for a property purchase. That should be 100% a private matter anyway imo. Let Mr.Diver and the cabinet co. sort it out, and if you have to pay capital gains and moving expenses, well--join the club!
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Bobbie View Drop Down
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Points: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 12:38pm
I think they came up with the 125k, because that is what the county has listed as the tax value.  However any appraiser will tell you, that a property is only worth what someone would buy it for - in this case 50k.  If that property was sold today (the right way), there would not be a 40k profit.  I would highly doubt there would be any building in that area that the appraisal could use as a comp.  Plus any lender would want to know what had been done to the property to warrent 40k more then someone purchased it for recently.
 
My bet is you will see the property value drop on the county web site to 50k or less here soon.  As you were aloud to submit reconsiderations on properties up till the end of March. 
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 6:53pm
Mike when enough people decide to stand up for themselves, then things will change.  When the business owners come together, those that have made Middletown their home by buying homes here, when they decide they have had enough things may change.  The problem is getting these individuals together as a group to discuss these issues and what we as citizens can do about them, as it is obvious that it is business as usual at City Hall.  I understand there was a meeting recently by citizens and business owners where the HUD and Section 8 issue was discussed by some of the attendees, I am not sure what the final outcome was but it was supposedly at the Senior Center and it was a civic organization according to the person I spoke with, i.e. Kiwanis, etc.
 
People the ship is sinking and time is short, if you have a stake in Middletown now is the time to wake up and fight for it, enough of just sitting on the sidelines.  As a group we could make a difference, alone we watch the city fall apart and become another urban footnote*. 
 
*Middletown a city they just watched decay and they did nothing.
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Bill View Drop Down
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 7:13pm
so who decided to start opening up the Sec 8 voucher process?
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 7:56pm
What do you mean Bill?
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Bill View Drop Down
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 9:15pm

Mike mentioned "they opened up the waiting list for Section 8 vouchers that were SUPPOSED to be being REDUCED via attrition!!!"  and I'm wondering who did that -- did council decide that, was it Doug Adkins, who?
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 9:30pm
It is my understanding that CONSOC opened it and not only did they open it they advertised in Hamilton and Oxford that I saw for people to get on the list.  There were more people on the waiting list from out of town than people that lived in Middletown on the list. 
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rngrmed View Drop Down
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Points: 309 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rngrmed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2010 at 10:26pm
Is $5000 really reasonable to move a small business around the corner?  I may have read the article wrong, but I am curious how the City is saving money if they are losing the 15000 in taxes from capital gains?
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2010 at 7:15am
$5K may be reasonable considering they probably have some heavy duty equipment to move such as saws, planers, drill presses, etc.  What is not reasonable is the City paying for it.  I know businesses that employ more people than this place does in town and they can't get the time of day out of the ED Dept.  Right Spider.
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Points: 7008 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2010 at 7:32am
Pacman- your statement about Mickie Robinette and the ED Dept. not giving businesses the time of day reeks of an opposing view that the city is "open for business" and "business friendly"    Could it be that they "misspoke"?
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Bill View Drop Down
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2010 at 10:43am
the city is only open for business as long as the business has the potential to employ a large number of people and bring in major tax dollars.
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When was the last time Robinette brought in a company that employs hundreds of people or that brought in major tax dollars? Paychex perhaps? and what other company?????? Most of his accomplishments have been of the three to ten employee increase/lower salary ($12/hour or less) variety with existing businesses only- no new employers, right?

No, the city gives us all evidence that it will work only with the businesses that are owned by some of their inner circle business buddies and the rest are left to fend for themselves according to some of the business owners here.
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 07 2010 at 11:08am
Rumor has it that when the city demo'ed Barb's Pub and the adjoining space, they also cut the sewer piping to the Vail Cabinet Co. This would explain the city's persistence and quiet involvement in this on-going fiasco. So much for the successful marraige of the planning dept. and ED. Look for this situation to continue undar the radar. Hopefully our responsible Council members will continue to keep us informed!
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SpiderJohn, Pacman, Miss Viviam, Viet Vet, Mike Presta, Etc. -
 
I've tried with marginal success to enlighten MiddletownUSA participants of the questionable expenditure of HUD Neighborhood Stabilization Program - Round One funds ($300,000+/-) for the recent City acquisition/demolition of the subject Central Avenue commercial properties.
 
As noted on several occasions, the NSP-1 grant application submitted by the City to HUD in November 2008, DID NOT INCLUDE A DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL ACQUISITION & DEMOLITION component.
 
To the best of my knowledge NO PLAN AMENDMENT WAS EVER SUBMITTED BY COMMUNITY REVITALIZATION DEPARTMENT STAFF FOR CITY COUNCIL TO AUTHORIZE such usage of HUD funds.
 
Last, there's no public record of the aforementioned PLAN AMENDMENT ever having been submitted to HUD for approval.
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 07 2010 at 12:20pm
SpiderJohn -
 
The recent Cental Avenue acquisition/demolition fiasco also brings to mind the MINDLESS ACQUISITION OF THE ADJOINING FORMER STRAND THEATRE BUILDING.
 
Just think, for $1.00 the City of Middletown now has a vacant, dilapidated, asbestos-lader property on Central Avenue that is reported to cost up to $300,000 for demolition and asbestos abatement.
 
What skilled land development experts that us Middletonians have in residence at One Donham Plaza?  Of course, none of this would be possible without the consent of HER MAJESTY!
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Does anyone know the value of or the County's appraised value for Tax purposes of the Cabinet shop?  The County has no 1316 Vail Ave. listed in their database that I could find.
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Bobbie View Drop Down
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I believe it is 85000.
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Originally posted by wasteful wasteful wrote:

From the Journal today:
 
"The city became involved in the deal mainly over tax issues, Robinette said, as Midd-Town Custom Cabinets initiated swap conversations in an effort to avoid paying up to $15,000 in capital gains taxes. ...
 
Kennedy said the deal has always been “designed to save the city money.”

“Rather than paying $15,000 in taxes and passing that along to the city in our sale price, we figured we could just do an exchange,” Kennedy said. “It was an even deal as far as we were concerned.”

Council raised questions about the swap when it came to light the current owner of the Central Avenue property had purchased it for $50,000 mere weeks before the deal was proposed. Kennedy dismissed claims the proposed swap was a “good old deal,” as he said his business is eating the $40,000 loss, not the city." ...

I guess I'm stupid, so can anyone help me to understand:

Why anyone would prefer "eating the $40,000 loss" to "paying $15,000 in taxes and passing that along to the city"???

How any of this would "save the city money.”???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Points: 2612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 07 2010 at 7:42pm
This cabinet shop is listed as being on Central Ave. not Vail although county records show the Business address as Vail go figure.  Parcel number if you want to look at it is Q6532004000025 . 
 
So for whatever reason the city wants the cabinet shop land have the cabinet shop and Diver do a land swap and then have a double closing where the city buys the old Cabinet shop from Diver for $85K still nice profit for Diver and the cabinet shop can pay their own moving expenses, unless of course Spiders story is true and the City hired wrecking crew tore up the Sewer then let the wrecking crew or their insurance company pay for the move.
 
 
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