SECTION 8: $140,000 HOUSING INSPECTION CONSULTANT

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   How sad that $140,000 of HUD funds is being spent on an out-of-town Consultant rather then hiring City of Middletown residents on a one-year contract.

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Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: SECTION 8: $140,000 HOUSING INSPECTION CONSULTANT Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 4:21pm
	How sad that $140,000 of HUD funds is being spent on an out-of-town Consultant rather then hiring City of Middletown residents on a one-year contract.

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 5:03pm
	Nelson After watching the City Council Meeting Tuesday night I too was a bit amazed at the $140,000 a year for the inspection of Section 8 Housing. I was even more shocked to know that this contract was never offered for open bid!!! And then I almost fell off the couch when they said they couldn't find any other companies that were qualified to do the inspection!!! WHAT!! I then called two of the council members and questioned them further. Since I and two of my friends are qualified to do Section 8 inspection I offered to start up a new business here and even open an office in downtown Middletown so this money would stay here where it is needed. I then informed the council members that I found it reeeeally difficult to believe that they could not find a local company in Butler, Warren or Hamilton County that could perform this service. I was then informed that they did not need to get bids on this contract. WHAT!! I just finished watching this council meeting again this afternoon and this $140,000 is NOT the total cost…we then need to add the cost of going to court. This would mean a special trip to Middletown. SOOO..this little problem could add an additional cost of $30,000 to this contract…WOW!! I just don't understand what kind of an inspection they could possibly be requesting that would cost this amount of money. Hey, Nelson, with all your experence in the building trade and HUD aren't you also qualified to inspect Section 8? What on earth is wrong with these people? What are your thoughts on this contract?

Hermes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hermes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 6:04pm
	Can anyone say "kickback" ?

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 6:30pm
	Miss Vivian - Is it really possible that Tony and Dave actually believe the hocus pocus that they told you?

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 6:39pm
	Miss Vivian - HUD Housing Quality Standards utilized for the Section 8 program are far less stringent than HUD/FHA Minimum Property Standards inspections conducted for homebuying mortgage applicants. It would be interesting for senior City staff to cite HUD rules and regulations for HQS including provisions related to inspector licensing/certification/etc. Feel free to talk to any reputable real estate industry representative in Middletown to further clarify the comments of senior City staff at last Tuesday's meeting of the Public Housing Agency.

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 7:15pm
	Nelson I can’t for the life of me understand this cost unless they are going to re-inspect all 1662 within a 12 month period. What are these people charging per house for these inspections? Small houses take about 30 minutes to inspect unless they are really bad. Apartment houses take about an hour. If a part time guy could take care of this job for CONSOC what has changed to drive up this cost? As you and I both know the worst thing about this HUD job is the paperwork. I would love to see the company inspection form that they are using it must be the standard HUD form.

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 8:31pm
	Here is the web link showing the basis Section 8 13 point inspection http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/hqs/hqsfaq.pdf Windows must have screens and lock..no cracks in glass Plumbing must be in good condition..no leaks..hot & cold water Kitchen Applicances must all operate well..range, frig and dishwasher..GIF on elec Bathroom plumbing must all work well..GIF on elec Flooring vinyl or carpet must not be torn.. No bugs or mice No Lead paint All locks on ex doors must work. Railing on stairs inside and out Heating & Cooling must work All electrical switches & plugs must work safely...check fuse box I can't remember the rest..common sense items

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 25 2009 at 11:28pm
	Senior City of Middletown Staff - The following link was obtained from the City of Scranton, PA. It contains their Request For Proposals (RFP) document that was utilized to solicit proposals from HUD Housing Quality Standards inspection consultants. I thought that you might wish to have this information even though the City of Middletown chose not seek competitive bids for the same type of consultant services for the Section 8 program here. http://www.scrantonpa.gov/oecd_docs/2009/RFP.pdf

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 5:35am
	Recent response from a local, respected real estate professional: I read the web link you sent me from Scranton, PA about the process they took in hiring a company to do their HQS inspections. Is the Section 8 program part of the Home program or are these two different programs? Are they run the same if they are different? HUD Section 8 and HOME Programs are separate. However, HQS requirements are the same for both. Also, If I remember correctly, the HQS inspection is the same for Home program and if it applies, to the Section 8 program. Correct. Also, if they are the run the same, how many inspections have to be performed in Middletown under the Section 8 program? How many units are rented each year – turnover – and thus an inspection of the property is needed. I am assuming that Middletown only intends to inspect houses or properties that are vacated then rented again. I do not see where they are going to inspect every home or property – roughly 1600 units every year – that’s about 31 units each week. It takes about 30 minutes to conduct each HQS property survey. That means 50 to 60 inspections could be performed each week. Now, if that is the plan, to inspect every unit each year, then $140,000 divided by 1600 units is $87.50 a unit to inspect – that is a pretty good price. But if Section 8 has only say 200 units a year turnover and they are only going to inspect those 200 units, then $140,000 divided by 200 units is $700.00 per unit inspection – WOW !!!! In the real estate world a whole home inspection done by a certified inspector takes about 3-4 hours to complete and usually costs about $300.00. Those inspections are about 30-40 pages long and cover about everything in a home. Anyway, just some fuel for thought. I would like to know how many inspections are going to be done each year for $140,000. If my guess is even remotely close at 200 units a year, then the City of Middletown has been taken badly. Our federal dollars are totally being wasted by a very poor inspection program. C.O.N.S.O.C. has charged the City of Middletown (per their request) only for a part-time Housing Inspector over the past 20 years. That expense is a fraction of $140,000. I hope I have all my figures correct, If not I’m sorry.

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 8:30am
	It would seem that there's a vast difference between an HQS survey and highly detailed FHA/VA mortgage prepurchase property inspections?

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 9:04am
	HUD Inspection Form For Section 8: http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudclips/forms/files/52580-a.pdf

Mike_Presta Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike_Presta Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 9:26am
	Nelson (and also Marconi and Schiavonne): Sorry, guys, you know that I am not the City Manager's biggest fan, but the only mistake that they made was in not clearly explaining the nature of the proposed contract! Yes, $140,000/year sounds (and probably is) high. But this is NOT a "lump sum" proposal!!! It is basically proposal for a "UNIT PRICE" contract, "NOT TO EXCEED" $140K/year. The actual payments are based on the following (which info was all plainly shown in the "workbook" that you councilmen say you spend so much time reading!): 3. Fee Structure: TIG shall submit monthly billing statements. Terms shall be 30 days net. Fees are: Annuals $ 48.00 each Re-inspections $ 38.00 each No Shows $ 35.00 each Initial/Complaint Inspections $ 58.00 each Emergency Re-inspections $ 48.00 each Included in the Inspection Fees above are all reports and notifications required under this contract. Specifically, the inspection fees above include a $4.00 charge per inspection for simultaneous reporting to both the Agency and the Administrator and an additional $9.00 per inspection for printing and mailing of all notifications to the Agency, Consoc, the Owner, the Tenant and TIG’s record keeping requirements. (The above is shown right in the 10/20/2009 Workbook (page 49 of 76 in the PDF format), page 6 of Exhibit A of Ordinance No. O2009-88, for all of you who always distrust me and have to see it for yourselves!) Anyway, regardless of whom I like the most, Nelson, I must be fair. You should back off on this one, in my opinion these rates are reasonable. PS to Doug Atkins: See, Sir, I really DO try to get at the truth, regardless of who it helps!!! Folks may not like my style, but my research is usually first rate.
	“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 12:06pm
	Middletown USA Readers - As most of us know, the Community Revitalization Department is laying off two staff members from the Building Inspection Division at the end of 2009. They are Dennis Rose and Tom Huiett. Both of these men are experienced, competent professional Building Inspectors. Either Dennis or Tom could properly handle Section 8 inspections at a cost far less than the potential maximum expenditure of $140,000. Doesn't this scenario seem like a reasonable, cost-effective solution worthy of consideration? By the way, my old computer (including Miss Vivian's) has been uable to download the City Council workbook from the City's website. I hope that this explains. Summary Notes: 1) Is it better to keep up to $140,000 in HUD funds in the local economy, or should it go to Westerville? 2) Are there local or S.W. Ohio firms who would bid on this work (maybe at a lower cost)? 3) Should the City of Middletown solicit competitive bids for projects of this size? 4) Why are current Community Revitalization Department staff (Dennis Rose and Tom Huiett) not considered to do this work? I respectfully submit this response. The only real issue is: What's in the best financial and operational interests of the City of Middletown?

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Oct 29 2009 at 7:59am
	Sources at the Municipal Building say that the proposed contract for the Section 8 housing inspection consultatnt includes their staff being here two days per week for roughly five hours per day. Has anyone else heard about this? I still say, "keep one of the two Building Inspectors (scheduled for 12/31 layoff) to handle this task."

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 04 2009 at 5:56am
	November 3, 2009 • Approved a contract with The Inspection Group of Westerville to provide housing quality inspections for the city’s Section 8 subsidized housing program. The contract has a provision not to exceed $140,000 a year. I’m willing to bet on this $140,000 for 3.000 inspections as NOT being the total cost of these Section 8 inspections in 2010. The math even seemed a little fuzzy to council members with a final decision of “we can always fire them”.

Nelson R. Self Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279	Post Options Post Reply Quote Nelson R. Self Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 04 2009 at 6:22am
	Good Morning Miss Vivian - Last night's City Council approval confirms that senior City staff has been given yet another "blank check" when it comes to HUD matters like Section 8 Housing Inspection consulting services. I thank you for standing with me in bringing probing questions and other information to MiddletownUSA readers, City Council members and the general public. It's my sincere hope and prayer that senior City staff doesn't get another "pass" from the City Council in sweeping the travesty of the Middletown Historic Cemetery under the rug as well. Keep up the good fight Miss Vivian!

taxed2death Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Immigrant Joined: Oct 26 2009 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 34	Post Options Post Reply Quote taxed2death Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 04 2009 at 6:25am
	I ask a question why can't this be done in house? We have building inspectors?
	I hope it gets better soon!

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 04 2009 at 6:27am
	Thanks Pacman I just noticed that you posted the link to the Section 8 inspection form. Yep, that is the standard form that they have been using for years. Having this form on a laptop would cut down on paperwork time and mailing expense however you still need to inspect the property and it takes about 30 minutes to do it properly. Then you have travel time between units.

Pacman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pacman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 04 2009 at 6:29am
	The money for these inspections is coming from the HUD Section 8 funds from the federal governement and was basically allocated away from CONSOC to the city to pay for these inspections, right. Now whether I agree with the amount spent or the fact that it is spent out of town or however it is spent, it was basically set aside for inspections. What else would it have been used for if not inspections. More Section 8 vouchers?

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 8:16am
	I thought I would use this old subject thread to ask all you bloggers how you liked the introduction to your new inspection company at last night’s council meeting? This was painful to watch, he couldn’t even answer the questions about his own company and how the inspections are conduccted? I still believe these inspections will cost more than $140,000 within the next year.

wasteful Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793	Post Options Post Reply Quote wasteful Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 8:51am
	So how does CONSOC do it for $132,000.00 a year now?

LMAO Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 28 2009 Location: Middletucky Status: Offline Points: 468	Post Options Post Reply Quote LMAO Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 8:54am
	He had how many weeks to prepare for this? At least a month I know of.No wonder are city is in the jam there in.Hiring people as that.Shameful.

Vivian Moon Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Vivian Moon Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 8:57am
	wasteful I believe this contract could be done for less than $132,000 however since this contract was not open for bid we will never know the answer to this question.

wasteful Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793	Post Options Post Reply Quote wasteful Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 9:12am
	If you want to be a Certified HQS Inspector here you go: http://www.morosco.org/assetmgr1.htm

wasteful Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793	Post Options Post Reply Quote wasteful Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Nov 18 2009 at 9:16am
	Vivian the thing is this servcie is paid for by HUD, the funds are not coming from the City. I am not getting all the uproar about this. CONSOC is doing it for $132,000.00 a Year, new company which is out of town is doing it for $140,000.00 a year and all funds are coming from HUD.