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Saturday, November 23, 2024 |
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The Downtown Fund FACTS |
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Middletown29 
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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 Topic: The Downtown Fund FACTSPosted: Sep 19 2011 at 4:41pm |
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Vivian can't believe what I am about to disclose because she doesn't do her homework.
The Downtown Fund is used to pay for land to the benefit of developer Al Neyer and has since at least 2005. LINKS: 2009 Financial Report SEE PAGES: 59, 79 and 135 City Council Agenda Workbook November 19, 2009 SEE PAGES 74 through 85 FACTS: FROM THE 2009 FINANCIAL REPORT: PAGE 59 NOTE 12 - SHORT-TERM OBLIGATIONS There was one short-term obligation in 2009. A renewal of a $2,056,916 general obligation note for land purchase bearing interest equal to the sum of the LIBOR rate for a Three-Month LIBOR Period multiplied by 0.76 plus 2.0% per year was issued in January 2009. This note matures on January 14, 2010. PAGE 79 DOWNTOWN IMPROVEMENTS FUND (definition) To account for improvement projects in the downtown area. PAGE 135 Payment from Downtown Improvement Fund of $2,056,916 to pay for debt service. FROM THE WORKBOOK: Staff report from Finance Director Russ Carolus at November 17, 2009 City Council meeting. Agenda Item #6 starting at Page 74. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Sep 19 2011 at 5:15pm |
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Middletown29 |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Sep 19 2011 at 6:49pm |
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I don't know if Vivian can believe what you disclosed or not, but I can.
The information that you provided from the 2009 FINANCIAL REPORT deals with a payment of $2,056,916 from the Downtown Fund to retire a debt due to the purchase of the Bender tract.
The information that you provided from the November 19, 2009 WORKBOOK deals with a deposit of $2,056,916 into the Downtown Fund resulting from the sale of a one year note.
The net result to the Downtown fund was ZERO!!!
Ergo, NOTHING was paid from the downtown fund!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Sep 19 2011 at 6:55pm |
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Note:
The above is not to say that I agree with the accounting methods used to shuffle the funds around.
I am simply saying that they used the Downtown fund to retire one short-term obligation while incurring another. Why they used the Downtown Fund to do this is beyond me, still, it was a zero sum game.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: Sep 19 2011 at 7:32pm |
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Mike you are as much a fool as Vivian.
First Vivian The 2009 data is the most recent audited data available. The 2011 data will show the same information just slightly different numbers. Second Mike Where do you think the cost of borrowing the money, I.e. Interest and expense like property taxes come from? Let me answer for you, it is the Downtown Improvement Fund! Wonder how much that adds up to for 6 years plus? |
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: Sep 19 2011 at 8:37pm |
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The interest cost alone in 2009 was about $120,000.
The interest was paid from Downtown Improvement Fund money. |
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Sep 19 2011 at 11:37pm |
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Middletown29
You must be having a really bad day so I will try this again very slowly. On June 3, 2011 I requested the finicial records of the "Downtown Fund" from Duane Wooten, City of Middletown so you see these are current numbers.
I find it strange that we are told daily that we have NO MONEY and yet millions flow into the downtown area with the full blessing of City Council. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 4:27am |
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Middletown29: YOU provided the information that YOU presented as FACTS. I accepted them as such. The information that YOU provided clearly shows that there was a debit (payment) from the Downtown Fund and a credit to the Downtown Fund in equal amounts of $2,056.916.00. Interest or any other costs included in this payment may have been paid THROUGH the Downtown Fund, but it was not paid FROM the Downtown Fund, since the total debit and the total credit were of equal amounts. The figures that YOU provided and presented as FACTS clearly showed this. I am not a fan of the shell games that City Hall plays, and have been an open critic of the way they shuffle money around through various funds. That is just one of the reasons that I am running for City Council. Still, even though I have no idea why they chose to run this money into and out of the Downtown Fund, the information that YOU presented as FACT clearly shows that it produced a ZERO SUM result. If you have information to the contrary, please present it. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 5:02am |
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That having been said, if the issue is City Hall using money from inappropriate funds to finance their risky schemes and try to cover their tracks, I am on your side!!! Let's nail the scoundrels and prosecute them to the full extent of the law.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 6:34am |
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Look closely at the financial statement page 135
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 8:15am |
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imo the core issue is that city govt. has lost focus and gone off track to chase the latest version of fool's gold.
Local govt.'s purpose is to FIRST provide a SAFE and functional community, public safety and infrastructure being primary responsibilities.
By bringing in an incredible overload of Section 8 and packing them all into a few tight pockets of the community, followed by systematically shrinking the police force, THEY(not the citizens) have created a very dangerous and un-attractive community model . If this situation is not fixed , efforts towards economic development, community clean-up via de-construction, improvements in education and quality of life cannot occur.
The incredible fixation and money drain trying to re-create and re-establish the area formerly known as downtown won't matter because no one will be attracted to the area anyway. MU-M really didn't develop any companion businesses in it's area(restaurants/shopping/leisure) despite it's more upscale student base than what we might see at C St. So we can't really expect much of anything meaningful coming from that development.
Un-realistic expectations(hopes) were placed on both Beau Verre and Pendleton(both very nice functional facilities). They simply can't carry their geographic area. That area has the highest Section 8 concentration, the Hope House, many govt.service organizations approximate to the residents. imo this is the area that should be turned over into service/neighborhood for the lower-income. They are already there, and have been there for decades. Why try to move them out and move in upscale? Upscale was there--it left willingly We have spent millions trying to bring it back for decades, and anyone can see the result. Time to quit trying to move a mountain.
The fixation with expensive property purchases, "mothballing" and demo has taken a serious economic toll on the community without providing a meaningful end-game or result. The city govt. cannot create a viable business district. That can only be done by the private sector, who must honestly want to be in an attractive area with enough discretionary income to support the businesses + the companion businesses to feed off of one another.
Imo we are spending too much $$ and valuable time trying to do something that won't stick, and has proven for decades not to be sustainable. This obsession has virtually destroyed the life support system of the whole city. Every other region has been ignored to the point of becoming an economic desert. Fiirst it was the former downtown are with no result--then moving east around the Atrium with as of yet not enough activity, so change the focus back down to the west end.
Please elect new candidates who will focus back on the basics of city govt.
Re-create a safe, balanced and quality of life attractive community. We have wonderful and affordable housing stock IF we give people a reason to live here.
Then we can try the more ambitious projects.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 8:19am |
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Middletown29:
YOU are RIGHT!!!
I sit corrected. There appears to be $54,702 shelled out for interest on that note during 2009.
And we have no idea on what the $539,033 described as "Community environment" was spent!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 8:23am |
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Spiderjohn:
Great post!!!
I wish I could've put it that tactfully.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 9:18am |
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sj, your point is well made, and made before, and I say that in a complimentary manner. We both keep saying the same, it just doesn't have an effect unfortunately.
What spider is saying is, it doesn't matter of this wiped out every dime of the city's fund, or its was a "chump change" expenditure, the fact is the city strays from its core competency and core functionality, protection of its citizens, providing sound infrastucture, and making the city an attractive area for new citizens and businesses to come into town. Its that simple. If you can't provide these, you will be unsuccessful in other areas, such as new development, safety, et al. The city's own neglect of basic infrastucture is a major impediment. Do they think it won't bother State when they see and smell the moat around Smith Park, have a student held up at gun point downtown---same holds true in Clifton, UC is one of the most dangerous college twons in Ohio.
Forget about GAAP adherence (which the city used non GAAP as stated), how much was spent, was it credited properly, do x's and o's match up to balance. The issue is the city is focusing too much upon downtown, after the shuffle of buildings, and Lord only knows what's going at the east end.
Fixation is the right word for the downtown project, but that fixation may be driven by a few council members. Regardless, downtown will never be a meccas, few cities are with suburban malls everywhere. BV and PAC are niche operations. They cannot be anchors for business development. I don't think they have the potential to drawl people downtown, that certainly is not the purpose of BV, and PAC does it once a month.
Some day, the city may put it in the Master Plan, what their true core function to be, which sj continues to rightfully resonate and describe in his postings. If only city hall would listen.
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Middletown29
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 9:42am |
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Vivian, Vivian you don't know what you are reading. Just because the report says "Downtown Fund" doesn't mean the expenses were for "downtown".
You can't see the forest from the trees. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent on the Al Neyer land deal from the Downtown Improvement Fund. Call your friend Duane Wooten and ask him if you don't believe me. Ask Mr. Wooten what the over $2 million this year was for. |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Sep 20 2011 at 10:34am |
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29, its trees from the forest, as the macro "donwtown" is broken into "micro expenditures. It is of no imporatnce, the reality is exactly what sj indicated: fixation on downtown instead of the "forest", ergo---what function is number one for a city---protection, infrastructure, not a derivative swap that would make Goldman Sachs have a migraine over attempting to figure.
The city should get out out of the "landlord-tenant" business. We have the $ Mm into Atrium land, $ M servicing debt at airport, $ hundreds of thousands servicing debt at Weatherwax, $ Mm servicing debt at Neyer Group 'investments" and development, with no $$$$ coming in. Huge Mm going out, little $$$ coming in.
Learn the core business of running a city, and get out of the derivative swap, private equity business own city leaders. Eyes taken off the ball of the basics, while worrying about plate dinners and donations to college Presidents, and assuring there will be cars coming to the UDF for gas and milk.
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Posted: Sep 21 2011 at 8:55am |
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acclaro,
You have put your finger on the very problem we have now in our city government; instead of doing the business of government, the government is trying to BE a business. The problem there is; THEY ARE TERRIBLE AT IT!!! I thought that MMF was supposed to be the non-profit corporation that dealt with the "business" of economic development. I still don't have a clue as to what they are doing and why we aren't hearing about it. GET BACK TO BASICS!!! Protection of the citizens and their property, infrastructure repair and improvement, legislation to improve the business climate. Instead, we have a government willing to throw tax dollars at every wink and promise while business leaves and this city becomes one large cesspool!!! Get it together elected officials or get your promotion and come back to being ordinary citizens!!!
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Sep 21 2011 at 1:29pm |
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TonyB, my friend spiderjohn, has been expressing these sentiments for many years, but city hall doesn't take heed. The "rainy day" fund was usually kept at 25%, ergo, the name "rainy day", to sustain that for an unexpected catastropic event, loss of revenues, storm sewer collapse over a large area, an so forth.
That fund is now 15%, so the city is now in a position if memory serves me, to have about 90 days of funding in the event they lost a company here, there, to keep some degree of short term stabilization. The State deal looks to me to be a "huge" roll of the dice. They would be better served in my humble opinion, to visit the river gambling boats, than roll cash on this project. Add in State, an the other "investment" properties owned, and the City of Middletown has an interesting "portfolio" of investments, none which yield much if any return. At best, some may contribute to debt service.
Get out of investment, let hdege fund managers handle that, provide security, infrastructure support, pick up trash once a week. and turn the water on for the shower head. Better to take $1,000,000 and buy Berkshire Hathaway and own 20 shares Buffet manages, than property depreciating in valuation awaiting the wrecking ball or the warm heat of 5,000 Cincinnati State students holding their annual reunion at The Manchester dancing the night away.
Lesson 101----know what you do well, the 'signature forte, stay out of "what you don't know and don't do well." That would be exemplifed by the Commons, the City Mart---the rrof that was on, that was off, the bike path, the reviatlization of downtown, the Atrium deal, ....
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Middletown29
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Joined: Mar 30 2011 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Posted: Sep 23 2011 at 1:25pm |
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Vivian....did you call your source Mr. Wooten?
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Middletown29
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Posted: Sep 25 2011 at 10:23am |
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No answer Vivian?
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Sep 25 2011 at 4:21pm |
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Middletown29 |
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Middletown29
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Posted: Sep 26 2011 at 5:44am |
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Call Mr Wooten and ask him about this year
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Vivian Moon
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Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Sep 26 2011 at 11:22am |
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Middletown29
Those are the numbers that I posted.... Downtown Fund Jan 2011-May 2011 $2,730,927.59
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Middletown29
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Posted: Sep 27 2011 at 6:18am |
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Vivian
Why do you avoid the truth? The $2,730,927.59 was spent on the land purchase for Developer Al Neyer |
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VietVet
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Posted: Sep 27 2011 at 6:44am |
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Please explain Middletown 29 and Vivian....
Was the 2 mil+ spent on the land purchase out by I-75 as Midd. 29 expresses or was it spent on downtown? Seems to be some confusion here between you folks. If designated for the downtown and spent out by the interstate, isn't this mis-appropriation of funds? A legality issue perhaps or not? |
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