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Storm Water & Sewers

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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 7:06am
Middletown Community News
Middletown City Managers Weekly Update to Council June 14, 2009
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:16:25 AM - Middletown Ohio

CSO update

Things are rolling again with the USEPA.   Our environmental attorneys and consulting engineers have been working with staff and the USEPA on consent decree discussions – the legal document that will dictate our fix to the Combined Sewer System issue.  In 2000, 2004 and 2007 we submitted plans/updates for resolution of the issue, none of which were approved by the EPA.  The EPA solution was upward of $100 Million; clearly not affordable.     While we will be paying out a great deal of money to consultants, when the stakes are at $100 Million, we need to ensure that we have negotiated the best deal for our community.  The fix will be paid for by our sewer customers, although legislation has been introduced to offset some of the costs through stimulus funds.  

The major cities in Ohio have been through this experience; some have settled with the EPA for improvement projects in the Billions.  We will do our best to negotiate the best and most affordable solution for our community.  

Ms Gilleland
The City of Middletown has been collecting for this new sewer system each month on our water bills for years.
Where is all this money?
What is the current balance of this account? 
We would like the above questions answered at the next Council Meeting.  
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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 7:34am
Thank you for bringing this to our attention Vivian. I wasn't even aware we were paying this extra fee. I have no idea what the "combined sewer system issue" even is.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 7:56am
Hermes
Keep your eye on this LITTLE problem.
Everytime we have a big downpour hundreds of businesses and homes in the downtown area have their basements filled with raw sewage.
The new "combined sewer system" needs to be completed before we can do anything in this area.
Why spend millions of dollars to repair the streets only to dig them up for the new sewer lines?
I just don't understand why it takes years to get anything completed in this town.
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409 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 8:08am
Vivian, you're right about the...Why spend millions of dollars to repair the streets only to dig them up for the new sewer lines?
If you'll recall, back in the 60's & 70's the question (joke) was 'Which area of the new asphalt will they dig up first to fix something they forgot to do in the first place?' Ouch
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409 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 8:14am
I forgot to add....At least some paving got done in those days!
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 9:42am
Originally posted by 409 409 wrote:

Vivian, you're right about the...Why spend millions of dollars to repair the streets only to dig them up for the new sewer lines?
 
A point that I have mentioned here for quite a while, particularly in the worst areas, like Main St. in the area formerly known as downtown.
 
Just take a look at your next water/refuse bill to see the breakdown of charges that YOU have been paying for quite a while.
 
I questioned this sewere charge at an early conversation with Council, referring to the charge as an un-mandated tax. MrMarconi objected to that view back then. Mr.Duritsch was asked to define the charge. He stammered through a vague description of what/where the $$ was for, and I believe since then, the accrued $$ has been diverted many ways. I believe seweres in the east end along the road to the Atrium was a major drain on this account.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong here.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 10:12am
Well SpiderJohn
I believe this was an unmandated increase.
MS GILLELAND SHOW US A COPY OF THIS MANDATE
I think it's time for the Ms Gilleland, City Council and Mr. Duritsch to
SHOW US THE MONEY...IN A DETAILED ACCOUNTING!

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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 11:20am
I agree especially since they claim this sewer money is suppose to be building up in some account for future use. I'm always the negative one but I'll bet there is no fund and no money. SHOW US THE MONEY !!!!
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 11:35am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

Hermes
Keep your eye on this LITTLE problem.
Everytime we have a big downpour hundreds of businesses and homes in the downtown area have their basements filled with raw sewage.
The new "combined sewer system" needs to be completed before we can do anything in this area.
Why spend millions of dollars to repair the streets only to dig them up for the new sewer lines?
I just don't understand why it takes years to get anything completed in this town.



You are mistaken, Ms Vivian. My Friend complained about one on these occurrences, and was told it was a "Hundred Year Storm " event and thus not the City's Problem.

How many "Hundred Year Storm " events have we have in the last Decade?
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 11:52am
Irisner
I have had my basement filled twice in the last 15 years and was told the same story. They informed me that I needed to pay something like $6,000 to have a back flow installed so it would not occur again. You can guess what I tolld themCensored
I do believe that the last time it filled the basement of the Manchester Inn and you can believe the City solved their little problem in a hurry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 11:53am
This is the sewer fund that I have brought up many times over the years. The city started charging more for sewer than for water about 30 to 35 years ago. This was to pay for the ten year $75 million project to separate the sewers downtown. That was $7.5 million per year without all of the increases. It appears to me that we pay about four times that amount today, making it about $30 million a year. At the minimum, with no increases, for thirty years adds up to $225 million dollars that the city should account for. I suspect that these funds went missing along with the millions of dollars a year in the auto and gas fund and the 1 mill property tax that can only be used for street repair. And what about the cemetery perpetual fund thats disappeared? What about the funds to keep up our parks?What about the CDBG money that should be helping the citizens. Where has this tens of millions of dollars per year gone? While everyone else is tightening their belts, Middletown keeps hiring and giving raises and setting up new depts. The reason for the big "clean-up" is nothing more than the city deciding that the best defence is a good offence. The old "we won't answer your questions, we'll put you of defence" has worked so well before.  
Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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Impala SS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impala SS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 12:27pm
Our storm sewer and waste sewer is the same in one . I have seen turds come up out of the sewers in my neighborhood when we have very heavy rains. And it all goes to the river, think about that when you want to go fishing there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 12:31pm

I meant to say "defense" and "Offense" in my earlier post. Sorry. And to add another question, where did all the money go? No street repair for 20 years. Even the street repairs being done this year are being paid for out of stimulus funds. The cemetery, the parks, the pool & the hydrolic canal are not being maintained by the city. Again I ask, where did all of these millions of dollars go? It certainly was not spent how it legally should have been spent!

Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impala SS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 12:34pm
PS> I forgot to tell you about the rats as big as cats living in our sewer.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 1:22pm

These are the items that really put us on the Forbes List and you can't paint, or polish them to make them dissappear. You can smell this problem all summer long.

SHOW US THE MONEY!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 1:30pm
Actually, the meeting that I mentioned in my post on this thread occurred back when Mr.Becker was the city manager and was out selling his proposed .75% income tax increase. I believe the monthly storm sewer(whatever) charge is a klittle over $3 per month for residences, and significantly higher for businesses.
 
Yes--everyone here is right on the money about tracking just where these funds have acrrued, the balance, and what projects they have funded. Next Council meeting is in three weeks, plus Ms;Ford and Mr.Armbruster are hosting a citizen forum on the 30th.
 
If we present specific ?s about these funds, amount accrued, balance and usage, they SHOULD be able to address these issues at the next Council meeting. Actually, if they read these posts or are made aware of the upcoming ?s, they could have ample time to prepare an answer at their forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 2:23pm
The question that pops into my mind when it comes to these dollars is.....if it wasn't spent on it's intended target and there is nothing in town to show for millions of dollars being spent,then who pocketed all that money ? I've been called ignorant by some for saying that one or more people in this town have embezzled millions of city dollars,but if there is nothing to show for the money then that has to be the answer.
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 9:12pm

Folks, several of us tried to get these very financial issues out into the open during the campaign before the November, 2007 elections as well as before other elections when tax increases were on the ballots.

It was difficult for several reasons, not the least of which being that the “in crowd” was given virtually unlimited time during council meetings and on TVMiddletown while opposing voices were given none.

Also, Middletown’s overly complicated Chart of Accounts lends itself to confusion and manipulation. (Go to The Middletown Journal “City Council Message Board”, page 57, and read my post with the subject: “The ‘OTHER’ accounts”, posted 11/20/2007 07:51AM ). Remember that the City of Middletown’s TOTAL budget is over $85 million, or over $115 Million, or over $130 million-all depending upon which figures you consider-and NOT just the $29 million or so General Fund that Council and Manager like to talk about. Yes, much of the other money IS restricted by law--but NOT ALL, and far from it!!! And much of it is even used to pay salaries that City Hall likes to make us THINK comes out of the General Fund!!!

They can show figures to “prove” ANYTHING, but those figures do NOT tell the complete story, and you cannot follow all of the “transfers in” and “transfers out”!!!

Unfortunately, the voters did not heed the voices of truth in November of 2007, and now we hear calls of “show us the money!”. I have no doubt, that you WILL be shown some slick charts and presentations that will “prove” everything that you want to see. What you will not see, and what they dare not show you is everything at once!! They MUST make it so confusing that you can NOT follow the bouncing balls quickly enough to stay on track. There are questions that have NEVER been answered because they can NOT be answered. If those questions are asked again, they will be side-stepped again, and then it will be “time to move on” to the next subject.

PLEASE do NOT be fooled again this November!!!

We have shown you the “Moving Middletown Forward” agenda. You can see some of it in the proposed amendments to the City Charter. You will recognize more of it in the months to come, if only you actually try to understand what you see and hear!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2009 at 5:46am
Mike
I can't connect to the Middletown Journal Message Board..
You are correct, the City has been playing the 'shell game" with this storm water & sewer money for a very long time. They have also merged accounts under different account names. This problem should have been solved years ago.
"General Funds" is the buzz word for the City...this is the ONLY account they want to talk about. The only way that they can support the current load of employees is by paying them from these OTHER funds. I second the call from Mike....PLEASE DO NOT BE FOOLED AGAIN THIS NOVEMBER
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokey Burgess Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2009 at 7:07am
ADMINISTRATIVE EXTRAVAGANCE - CITY OF MIDDLETOWN STYLE
 
Upon moving here in late 12/2006 to accept the Community Development Administrator position for the City of Middletown, I shortly discovered that 50% +/- of HUD funds were being spent for program administration (20%) as well as what the Feds call "program delivery" (30% +/-).OuchOuch
 
In my 38 years of private and public sector housing, real estate and mortgage finance work experience, NEVER have I seen anything approaching the bloated bureaucracy here!  Just think, 50 cents plus of every HUD dollar received is spent on salaries, fringe benefits and office expenses here!AngryAngry
 
From: Nelsonself@aol.com <Nelsonself@aol.com>
Subject: Re: HUD-Funded Programs and Administrative Costs
To: chrisamburgey@yahoo.com
Cc: dschiavone1@cinci.rr.com, Paul@PaulRenwick.com, amarconi@cinci.rr.com
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 1:34 PM

This past Thursday we (Administrative Assistant to the Planning Director and me) were directed to meet with the suddenly recently retired Community Revitalization Director, her senior administrative assistant and a representative from the Finance Department on the HUD-funded programs administrative budget.
 
Both of us explained that we're already spending a dangerously high amount for administrative purposes (50 cents+/- of each HUD dollar)!
 
A senior Finance Department staff member recently told us that they don't know where to find money to fund the Community Revitalization Director's new position.  With the salary increase that senior City of Middletown staff is giving her, they need more than $100,000 for salary and fringe benefits.  Russ said that Judy plans to use some Transit Authority or Public Works Department funds to pay for this new department head.  The rest would presumably come from CDBG and Section 8??
 
I am treading dangerously thin ice by bringing these matters to your attention, however, I am very concerned by what is going on.  Some aspects of this reorganization plan seem very ill-conceived.  Others employed by the City feel the same way.
 
I believe that HUD will intervene if the above actions are taken.  We already need to trim administrative costs.  I suggested not filling the vacant Housing Code Specialist position as a means of reducing administrative costs.  The new department head told us that Code Enforcement is a very high priority of senior City of Middletown staff and her.  They will be interviewing candidates for that position within the next week or two.  I was excluded from this process as my roles and responsibilities are being diminished.
 
I am told that there exists HUD and General Fund resources to have one clerical and three field inspector positions.  Each field inspector would handle both weeds/trash and code enforcement for one-third of the city limits.  The clerical person would handle their secretarial/administrative needs.  One field inspector from General Fund plus two field inspectors and one staff secretary.
 
We must avoid spending so much on administration that there's not too much left to help low- to moderate-income home owners with minor to major housing rehabilitation needs.  They've already talked about eliminating the Community Improvement Program that Berachah Baptist Church has successfully participated in to rehab homes, renovate parks, etc.  We've provided $50,000 in CDBG funds (materials only) that has leveraged about $75,000 in donated labor from the church members and other volunteers.  It would be sad to eliminate that to further expand the payroll.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nick_Kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2009 at 9:26am
The city only wants to talk about the General Fund, about $29 million. If you add up personnel cost for the police dept., the jail guards, the fire dept. and their vehicles you will notice that they use up nearly the entire general fund. Where does the money come from to pay all the other people in the city building? I believe that it comes from CDBG money that should be helping poor citizen, especially seniors on fixed incomes, keep their property in good condition. I believe the money comes from the auto & gas fund plus the 1 mill property tax earmarked for streets, rather than keep our streets in repair. I believe the money comes from the sewer fund earmarked to separate the sewers downtown. I believe that it comes from the other 55 funds that we never hear about. This misuse of our  tax dollars along with other stupid ideas (red light cameras, section 8 housing, excessive red tape to bring in businesses, etc., etc., etc.) coming out of our city building, has landed us as the #1 fastest dying city (with a population under 100,000) in the country. Since our beauracracy is just adding to the former mistakes, they must be trying to make us the #1 fastest dying city in the world! (#1 fastest dying is a kind way of saying #1 least desirable place to live. Let's give a big "thank you" to our city government for this fine image & reputation )
Government is not the answer to problems, government is the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2009 at 9:59am
This is exactly why in my Opinion Section 8 was grown so fast in Middletown.  it wasn't about serving the Residents...hahahaha it was all about the Fees the City could pocket and has made Middletown a laughing stock in SW Ohio.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2009 at 10:40am
Being the impromptu person that I am I would love to see some people go to prison over all this. If it was one of us putting the screws to council we would pay dearly. And I agree,come November there should not be left standing/sitting one present council member in this town. But,the question always rises as to who do we put in ?
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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