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Teacher evaluations

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sassygirl View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 11:11am
I have called the school district and been passed around to several different departments. No one is responding to my question.

I have kids in Middletown schools. My child was getting A's in Math and Reading but not pass the state tests. Which makes me think, what are they teaching?

If kids aren't passing the state tests, teachers are not doing their jobs. What happens to teachers if kids don't pass tests? I read in the Journal that the pass rate went from 45% to 47% and the superintendent is happy about it. Instead, he should be thinking about what he's going to do with teachers who are not doing their jobs? They should have to take remedial "teacher classes", to learn how to do their jobs, or be fired.

I read in the Journal that a Middletown High school teacher said that student test scores should not be considered in teacher evaluations because kids are different everywhere. So is she blaming the kids for not learning.?  Kids are different, but the teacher's job is to figure out how to get the kids to learn the information they are supposed to learn.

I would like to know if I can see a teacher's evaluation before my child has to spend an entire year in a classroom with a teacher who's students are not learning what they are supposed to learn, and can I ask for a particular teacher for my student. If they don't have evaluations (why not), then I would like to see how many kids in  the teacher's class passed the state tests because I would like to choose another teacher, or go to another school.  I don't want to see names of students, just teachers and numbers of kids who passed the tests.

If I can't see the teacher's full evaluation, I would like to know how many kids in a teachers class passed the state tests. If the teacher my child is assigned to does not have the majority of their students passing the tests, I don't want my kid in that classroom.

Also, am I allowed to ask for a different teacher who's students pass the tests. So I need to see who my kid will have this year,soon, so that I can decide if I want to get a voucher or go to a charter school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 11:37am
Sassy, I guess MCSD doesn't want to hold teachers accountable but other districts monitor and fire teachers who don't toe the line. Why can't we do that here? It's not like there's a shortage of teachers out there to replace them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 12:56pm
One big obstacle here on accountability....the Teacher's Union. Based on past history pertaining to teacher performance, when you start pointing fingers at teachers, there is a certain amount of backlash one can encounter from the union and the teachers themselves. The defense mechanism really kicks in with them and the excuses start flowing.

The class size is too large.

The school text books aren't current.

The parents don't care anymore.

Kids come to school unprepared with no homework done, tired, dirty, hungry, etc.

I didn't have time to prepare my students for the tests.

The parents won't cooperate.

I never see the parents at parent/teacher conferences.

The parents won't return my calls.


NOW WAIT A MINUTE TEACHERS....BEFORE YOU JUMP ALL OVER THIS......

Couple that with the administrations refusal to provide support for the teachers in the classroom and the fact that the schools/legislators have decided to remove any and all deterrents from the classroom, prompting the kids to "run wild" and have no respect for authority. Schools are intimidated by the "sue-happy" parents if they touch their "little angels" who, in reality, need to have a board taken to their behind to square their attitude away in proper fashion at times.

The legal system doesn't help either. They (the courts) cater to the disruptors/troublemakers (parents and students alike) and treat them like sugar coated candy, cottling them to the point of creating irresponsible people/ little brats instead of coming down hard on them.

The teachers, the administrators, the police and the courts are all intimidated by the parents and we have gone totally soft in maintaining any semblence of authority. Authority has gone soft and we are way too "kinder/gentler" in our approach. The hard line approach use to work. It is gone and so is the control in the schools.

If you are dissatisfied with the teachers, the school system, the test results and the perceived lack of a decent education in the Middletown schools, do as many before you have done. Transfer to a better performing district (take your pick- almost any perform better than Middletown does now), go parochial if you can afford the tuition, or go charter school. No doubt you can do better with any one of these options. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by sassygirl sassygirl wrote:

I have called the school district and been passed around to several different departments. No one is responding to my question.

I have kids in Middletown schools. My child was getting A's in Math and Reading but not pass the state tests. Which makes me think, what are they teaching?

If kids aren't passing the state tests, teachers are not doing their jobs. What happens to teachers if kids don't pass tests? I read in the Journal that the pass rate went from 45% to 47% and the superintendent is happy about it. Instead, he should be thinking about what he's going to do with teachers who are not doing their jobs? They should have to take remedial "teacher classes", to learn how to do their jobs, or be fired.

I read in the Journal that a Middletown High school teacher said that student test scores should not be considered in teacher evaluations because kids are different everywhere. So is she blaming the kids for not learning.?  Kids are different, but the teacher's job is to figure out how to get the kids to learn the information they are supposed to learn.

I would like to know if I can see a teacher's evaluation before my child has to spend an entire year in a classroom with a teacher who's students are not learning what they are supposed to learn, and can I ask for a particular teacher for my student. If they don't have evaluations (why not), then I would like to see how many kids in  the teacher's class passed the state tests because I would like to choose another teacher, or go to another school.  I don't want to see names of students, just teachers and numbers of kids who passed the tests.

If I can't see the teacher's full evaluation, I would like to know how many kids in a teachers class passed the state tests. If the teacher my child is assigned to does not have the majority of their students passing the tests, I don't want my kid in that classroom.

Also, am I allowed to ask for a different teacher who's students pass the tests. So I need to see who my kid will have this year,soon, so that I can decide if I want to get a voucher or go to a charter school.


The Middletown City School system is complete garbage. Four out of five School Board members are delusional, and lacking average intelligence. Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating. 

It's a joke

The quicker you and your child are out of this worthless district the better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 2:48pm
My question to Sassy is this, other than the grades, how did your children do on the required Reading and Math benchmark tests done three times this past year, as well as the monthly common assessments given by the district? Did they do well or show growth? I don't know their ages but how are their SRI scores in reading? Are they at grade level? What about Dibels (if they are in the younger grades)? Their teachers should have given you those scores as an indicator of growth (or non-growth). I ask about these other tests simply to see if perhaps they did well throughout the year on other assessments and then maybe froze on the big state test, it has happened before. If there wasn't acceptable growth during the entire school year, did anyone address the issue to you?
As for requesting other teachers, it has been done for some pretty silly reasons (this not being one of them mind you) so all you can do is ask.
As for seeing how many children passed for each teacher, I for one wouldn't have a problem anyone knowing my numbers from year to year, including the progress my students make THROUGHOUT the year. However, since people know who is in what class, I believe there might be a privacy issue for students, but not sure. Again, you would have to ask, or, in this case, keep asking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 3:25pm
TudorBrown: are you serious? "Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating..."? I think that "Big Brother" and its NCLB highly-qualified requirements assures that MCSD's teaching staff is highly educated. Oh, but wait, aren't you the one that's concerned that our teachers---after spending $45,000+ of their own dollars to get their Master's degrees---are paid too much? I'm sure you live on more than $48,000 a year, and I'll bet that you don't have a master's degree. Or you'll lie about it. If you do make over $48,000/yr. and have a master's degree, how about quitting your job , go back to school for another 2 years to get your Master's degree IN EDUCATION, and then teach these students? Maybe you can raise their scores---after all, you have all the answers.
c.h. moore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 4:00pm
chmoore, the whole union-inspired game of getting one's Master's degree is just another way of saying a down payment for a future annuity. A teacher invests $$ into getting their Master's and then are entitled to raises until the end of time.
No proof that getting a Master's makes one a better teacher!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 12 2011 at 5:55pm

Stanky: regardless of who mandates that they must get a masters degree, the fact is that they cannot teach unless they are working toward that goal.  It's mandated, not optional.  In the private sector, an employee will--until the current economic downturn---get a COLA raise, along with other performance bonuses, profit-sharing, etc.  Further, your analogy to an unending annuity is false.   The pay increments may be $1,500 a year difference in pay, but during a 30 year career, they just equal the original $45,000 "investment."  What lineof work are you in, and would you be willing to spend $45,000 in 5 years to get a master's degree?  I would certainly think that you would expect some sort of pay-increase for that effort.   Also, and most importantly, what study are you referring to that shows that a Master's degree doesn't make one a better teacher?  It's very easy to throw that out there, but back it up with some data. CH Moore

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sassygirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 11:46am
To sick of the bull...It's none of your business, (how my kids did on the benchmark tests. My point is that the

Definition of TEACH is

1a : to cause to know something <taught them a trade> b : to cause to know how <is teaching me to drive> c : to accustom to some action or attitude <teach students to think for themselves> d : to cause to know the disagreeable consequences of some action <I'll teach you to come home late>2: to guide the studies of3: to impart the knowledge of <teach algebra> 4a : to instruct by precept, example, or experience b : to make known and accepted 5: to conduct instruction regularly in <teach school>

Something is missing in Middletown classrooms. Teachers are teaching what they want to teach, not what they should be teaching for kids to pass the tests. I help my kids with their homework. I also have looked at the old tests on the state website, I don't see where the homework they get connects with the state tests. If kids are not learning what the state wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 11:59am
chmoore, a couple points on your comment. First, isn't the mandate for your Master's degree something bargained for by your union? Who pushed for that ...the state? I doubt it. Probably something the union pushed for as a way to enhance incomes over a career.

I'm not sure what private sector jobs you are referring to but I'm not aware of anyone getting a COLA raise (Social Security recipients maybe?). Most people get a merit-based raise of, at most, 3%. And those raises have been gone for a couple years now. And profit-sharing is a fairly limited form of income. I'm not aware of many people who participate in this other than AK union members.

As for the sense of getting a Master's, it seems to me that the onus should be on you to show data proving that an advanced degree matters at all in the classroom. I don't have evidence to back my point but I recall reading major articles on education that have referenced that successful teachers performance has little to do with getting a Master's. Why don't we implement a system where the extra pay is given to the best teachers rather than handed out based on the Master's degree?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 12:04pm
sassygirl, I have a hard time believing the MCSD does not have a curriculum based on the Ohio tests. You sound like one of the many parents who tend to blame everything on the schools and teachers rather than helping your child study and holding them to a high standard. Back away from the video games, kids!
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Here are my responses to teacher excuses:

The class size is too large.
Only 20 kids in my kid's class last year

The school text books aren't current.
Forget about textbooks, Hands-on learning, and the teacher, parent , student interaction  is much more effective.

The parents don't care anymore.
Obviously, I care, and so do the parents of my kids' friends.

Kids come to school unprepared with no homework done, tired, dirty, hungry, etc.
Is this a reason to not fulfill you job responsibilities as a teacher? Again, teacher, parent , student relationships are important. If teachers don't want to take the time to find out what's going on in the life of their students, they should get our of teaching. I know that there are many teachers who care about the families they work with, but just as many do not.

I didn't have time to prepare my students for the tests.
Why wouldn't teachers have time to prepare students for tests? I don't  get that!

The parents won't cooperate.
This is a good one! I offer to volunteer all of the time, but no one ever calls me to help!
So I don what I can at home with my own kids. I could help many kids if teachers would let me help.

I never see the parents at parent/teacher conferences.
I missed a couple of conferences because I was sick and could not get to the school at the assigned time. I tried to reschedule, but was told, by the secretary, that conferences were over and I could not schedule another one. I left a message for the teacher to call me, but she didn't. So I called for the principal, but she didn't call me back either.

The parents won't return my calls.
This is funny. Actually, I had a conversation with Ms. Leforce at Verity about my kids problems in her class. She told me that it was my problem and I should deal with it. I called her back, but she never returned my call. The principal didn't care to call me back either.
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My son is now a proud member of Monroe Local Schools, thanks to open enrollment.

 I too had issues with the process of education my son was receiveing at Middletown. I approached this with teachers and eventually a couple major issues with the Principal and received the run around. I received only vague responses to my issues and when I gave specific questions that required specific accountability, she stopped replying to me. The current culture of Middletown schools has become so dependent on "We expect to be a failure because of all the poor in our district."
 For the Superintendent to state he was pleased with the small increase, tells me he has become part of the "BORG" The Middletown Borg that sucks the hope and life out of all that come near.
 
Our new MOTTO "We are Middletown and we are happy to just exist." Don't look behind the curtain and see that we have been failing for years and are still failing. Put on a HAPPY FACE
 
No one to blame but us citizens for not holding the leadership of the schools and for that matter our city government accountable. We have all gone to sleep only worried about of selves and our stuff while the government and educational system fall down around us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 12:43pm
Sassygirl: Perhaps the problem is exactly what educators have been stating nation-wide---the "state government" is dictating what the students should learn, thereby making the districts and teachers "teach to the test." Classroom teachers WANT the students to learn (why wouldn't they?); but the local school districts should know what is appropriate and necessary to teach....NOT the State or Federal government (as in Ted Kennedy). Your statement has it backwards: "If kids are not learning what the STATE wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs." Wrong! The LOCAL DISTRICTS should dictate what they want their students to know.   Also, it IS our business to know how your "kids did on the benchmark tests." That's why we're having this discussion post. CH Moore.
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Stanky: thanks for your reply. First of all, I am not---nor have ever been---a teacher. So, it's not MY union. In fact, I usually don't even side with unions. I looked up NCLB: at the middle and high school levels, one of the qualifications for a highly-qualified teacher is a "graduate"--(i.e., "Master's")--degree. So, who "pushed for that...the state?" No, the federal government. COLA increases: as I stated, until the "bust" in 2008, nearly all unions negotiated an annual cost-of-living increase in their contracts. Once again, I am NOT a union member...just pointing it out. The "salaried" workers usually received the same increases, to keep pace with other rising wages. Another point: you "don't have evidence to back (your) point but I recall reading major articles...." If you don't remember the facts, don't make such general statements. I'll try to research the topic myself and report back. Last point: " Why don't we implement a system where the extra pay is given to the best teachers rather than handed out based on the Master's degree?" How do you determine the "best teachers"? What suggestions do you have to identify them and what scale do you use to compensate them? Thanks, again, for your input. CH Moore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohiostorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:04pm
CHMOORE - If the problem was the state dictating what should be taught then all districts would be struggling equally. How do you explain the fact that Middletown scores are the lowest in the area. Even compared to similar demographics?
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Ohiostorm: You have made my point! It's not because we have less-qualified teachers than other districts. MCS recruits from the same pool that other districts do. It must reflect other factors, i.e., "demographics." I need to repeat that I AM NOT---NOR EVER HAVE BEEN---a teacher. I don't "have a dog in this fight." I feel that it is unfair to place the blame on the teachers---I understand that some teachers are marginal for various reasons---when the great majority devote their lives to teaching (and enjoying teaching) their students. Thanks for your response. CH Moore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

TudorBrown: are you serious? "Many of our teachers aren't educated enough to be educating..."? I think that "Big Brother" and its NCLB highly-qualified requirements assures that MCSD's teaching staff is highly educated. Oh, but wait, aren't you the one that's concerned that our teachers---after spending $45,000+ of their own dollars to get their Master's degrees---are paid too much? I'm sure you live on more than $48,000 a year, and I'll bet that you don't have a master's degree. Or you'll lie about it. If you do make over $48,000/yr. and have a master's degree, how about quitting your job , go back to school for another 2 years to get your Master's degree IN EDUCATION, and then teach these students? Maybe you can raise their scores---after all, you have all the answers.



I must have struck a nerve, I'm sure you're a fabulous teacher!  Embarrassed

I don't have a masters degree (like 38% of Ohio teachers), I have a J.D. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohiostorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:30pm

In my post I did not blame the teachers. There are bad teachers in every district. Some districts just do a better job at holding them accountable or have a better contract with the union that allows them to hold them more accountable. I place very little blame on the teachers. I place blame on the administration. I do not buy the demographic argument. Other districts with similar demographics are succeeding better then Middletown so there must be other issues. I would accept that demograpics carries with it some challenges but others are rising to the challenge while Middletown continues to accept failure because they are not failing as bad as they were before.

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TudorBrown: I am not a teacher---never have been. With your J.D. degree (Right...!) I'm sure that you live on more than $48,000, otherwise you wouldn't have gotten your "advanced degree." And your point about 38% of Ohio teachers having Master degrees is ??????   Please do me a favor.....remove the belief that I am a teacher. I may argue for them, but I've never been one. You may rely on one thing from me on this blog----I will tell you the truth....I have nothing to hide.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohiostorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:38pm

I am not a teacher basher.

Some my best friends are teachers!!  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by chmoore chmoore wrote:

Sassygirl: Perhaps the problem is exactly what educators have been stating nation-wide---the "state government" is dictating what the students should learn, thereby making the districts and teachers "teach to the test." Classroom teachers WANT the students to learn (why wouldn't they?); but the local school districts should know what is appropriate and necessary to teach....NOT the State or Federal government (as in Ted Kennedy). Your statement has it backwards: "If kids are not learning what the STATE wants them to know, teachers are not doing their jobs." Wrong! The LOCAL DISTRICTS should dictate what they want their students to know.   Also, it IS our business to know how your "kids did on the benchmark tests." That's why we're having this discussion post. CH Moore.


Just wondering here how the state got involved in dictating to the education people what the teaching criteria should be? Must have been a time when somebody felt something needed to be done to measure how effective educators were at relaying knowledge. Apparently, enough people were dissatisfied with the lack of progress (dumbing down of the students- employers who received the end product in the working world perhaps?) from the educators to approach the state legislators about policing the education community as to performance. There has been stories concerning the educational quality of the students sent on to the colleges. I believe I read a story a while back where Miami U. set up a freshman class remedial program to bring the incoming freshmen to the level they need them to be to start college. That doesn't bode well for the job that some school districts are doing in preparing the kids for college or to enter the work force. Employers haven't been happy with the kids that are passed on to them by the schools either. No math, reading or other communication skills have been issues. Perhaps there is a problem with the schools, the colleges, the state governments and the real world employers being on the same page as to what each wants and needs from the other. Perhaps each is doing their own thing with total disregard for the other. It might not be a bad idea for all to get together and actually institute a program that works instead of talking this thing to death. Unfortunately, it is easier to talk about a problem than it is to solve it sometimes. Solving problems requires committment, planning, agreement and implementation. No one wants the headaches in doing the right thing anymore. Too much "my way or no cooperation at all" in the mix. It remains the same failed, broken system it always has been.
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The state's mandatory curriculum is a bogey man for teachers to use as an excuse. The reality is as a teacher you should be able to teach kids subject X rather than subject Y. Is it that hard?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sickofthebull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 2:42pm
Sassy, in no way was I requesting your child's scores.  I was asking those quesions to see if you had an understanding of the data collection and progress monitoring that goes on in the district.  The fact that you became so defensive tells me you have no clue and therefore cannot speak to what is or is not being taught in the classroom or what your child is capable of througout the year.  As a teacher in the State of Ohio, I am given four books printed out by the state (your elected officials) that specifically mandates what is to be learned by the end of each and every grade.  Districts, with these MANDATED books in hand, then go on to find what they hope is the best curriculum available to teach to those standards which are then tested at the end of the year.  The benchmarks and common assessments I spoke of earlier, the ones you don't know about, are given throughout the year to monitor growth, or lack thereof.  If there isn't growth, we all adjust our instruction accordingly to accommodate those who don't get it still.  The ones who do get it suffer.  That is just a SMALL part of the process and to be honest, if you don't the process completely, how on earth can you speak on it, let alone piss and moan about it?  Just wondering....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote What A City Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by sickofthebull sickofthebull wrote:

Sassy, in no way was I requesting your child's scores.  I was asking those quesions to see if you had an understanding of the data collection and progress monitoring that goes on in the district.  The fact that you became so defensive tells me you have no clue and therefore cannot speak to what is or is not being taught in the classroom or what your child is capable of througout the year.  As a teacher in the State of Ohio, I am given four books printed out by the state (your elected officials) that specifically mandates what is to be learned by the end of each and every grade.  Districts, with these MANDATED books in hand, then go on to find what they hope is the best curriculum available to teach to those standards which are then tested at the end of the year.  The benchmarks and common assessments I spoke of earlier, the ones you don't know about, are given throughout the year to monitor growth, or lack thereof.  If there isn't growth, we all adjust our instruction accordingly to accommodate those who don't get it still.  The ones who do get it suffer.  That is just a SMALL part of the process and to be honest, if you don't the process completely, how on earth can you speak on it, let alone piss and moan about it?  Just wondering....
 
 
Sick.........in defense of Sassy and the rest of us who are out of the internal loop in the education field, I  would imagine most don't know the interworkings of your curriculum criteria as to specifics.
 
The fact is, you as an educator, are providing a service to the public. The student and the parent are your customers. The parents,  the people with no kids in the system, and the taxpayer in general, are looking for progress no matter the obstacles. We all have issues that provide road blocks on our jobs, be it private sector or public. We all are expected to overcome, adapt, and accomplish the tasks before us. We all must do more with less, both in manpower, money and sometimes, poor communication.
 
We all piss and moan about things we don't have a total understanding of. We all want to see results and don't want to hear the why' s and the how's in detail. Just get it done with positive results the bottom line for most.  We are looking for some good news from the money we are paying out. Are we getting our money's worth? Some don't  think so when they see the end results.
 
In all honesty, in my opinion, your last line says it all concerning the message some educators convey. You get all defensive if the people outside the loop don''t understand the entire system down to the most minute detail and seem to be very defensive when people don't measure up to your standards when they are not involved in your world on a day to day basis. I've noticed that a lot of educators are like that.
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